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Lena Lazair
Sefrim
542
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:42:12 -
[1] - Quote
I'd like to see CCP void insurance payouts when a KR is activated, similar to how insurance payouts are voided on CONCORD kills. Considering KR's are only generated by illegal actions that (usually) end up with CONCORD response anyway, this doesn't seem like a stretch.
The only people this negatively affects are folks getting KR's on them by podding people in low-sec, which of course does not traditionally involve CONCORD. I don't think it really affects them/us enough to care, and honestly the slight burden this would add to criminal choices in low-sec is not a bad thing anyway (low-sec is not and never was intended to be lawless, remember).
In benefit, we get to remove yet another abused ISK faucet that also has had the side effect of cluttering up the overview with a bunch of useless KR tags.
To reiterate, my primary concern here is NOT the scamming bit. I don't care, scam away, add extra 0's, etc. My primary concern is that this is a straight up ISK faucet that also trivializes an interesting mechanic, and the last thing EVE needs is 1) more ISK and 2) more dumb mechanics that people ignore 95% of the time.
If your response is "change is scary/HTFU/don't ruin scamming you carebear n00b/you are stupid", please just "x" up instead to save precious space in the forum database. Thanks! |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3756
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:43:13 -
[2] - Quote
Just one more nerf and it'll be balanced!
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Lena Lazair
Sefrim
542
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:51:52 -
[3] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Just one more nerf and it'll be balanced!
Nerf to what, though? That's the point.
This doesn't affect gankers; they are all operating at -10 and KR's are completely irrelevant.
This doesn't really affect low-sec podders because they never travel to hi-sec and are usually also operating at -10.
This affects basically no-one except those who have made a specific living out of abusing this specific mechanic interaction, which is itself a brand new thing that was only added with this anyway. It's not like it would actually affect anyone's "regular" lifestyle.
Insurance was very specifically tweaked by CCP to avoid this kind of ISK faucet from fraud a while ago. The interaction with KR when they were added that re-introduce an insurance fraud faucet was, in my belief, accidental/unintentional. If you want to generate ISK from thin air while AFK, there are already plenty of ways to do it. We didn't need this one added to the mix :)
This doesn't even affect the idea of pay-to-KB-pad; it's trivial to continue to profitably do that with KR's even without the insurance payout. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
2340
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:58:08 -
[4] - Quote
When you illegally aggress someone in hisec, you already lose the insurance payout on whatever ship you're flying at the time. Why should you lose your insurance again when the killright is activated?
I can appreciate your desire to add additional ISK sinks, but double jeopardy is bad.
-1.
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
A brief history of C&P Thunderdome
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Lena Lazair
Sefrim
542
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Posted - 2015.08.31 17:06:32 -
[5] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:When you illegally aggress someone in hisec, you already lose the insurance payout on whatever ship you're flying at the time. Why should you lose your insurance again when the killright is activated?
I can appreciate your desire to add additional ISK sinks, but double jeopardy is bad.
-1.
It's not about punishing the criminal twice, it's about removing the insurance fraud/ISK faucet. This particular mechanic in NO WAY affects anyone who is legitimately earning/clearing KR's on themselves. At all. Nobody with real KR's is getting double punished by this, because when you legitimately earn/clear KR's on yourself through criminal activity, you don't receive the KR payout, so no it's not relevant to their scenario.
The only time someone with a legitimate KR is flying around in an insured ship with any value of relevance is if they are combining clearing their KR with welping a ship whose insurance is about to run out. That is not only a really nichce case, this does nothing to affect it anyway because there are dozens of other ways to blow up a ship whose insurance is about to expire.
The only time it might affect someone with a "real" KR negatively is if they forgot they had a KR on them and flew something expensive, insured, and T1 in hi-sec. And since that's just stupidity, I don't actually care if they are being double punished in that particular case, and neither should anyone else.
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holdmybeer
The Conference Elite CODE.
12
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Posted - 2015.08.31 17:17:13 -
[6] - Quote
The ISK after activating KR should also go to CONCORD, not to players.
This is just a thought I had after noticing half of my overview is filled with t1 industrials with killrights on them. I'm getting tired of that and this would fix it for me. Eve would be a better place for everyone without those hundreds of t1 industrials autopiloting just in the hopes of getting killed, legally.
This kind of bot aspirancy is a cancer that needs immediate punishment |
Lena Lazair
Sefrim
542
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Posted - 2015.08.31 17:18:43 -
[7] - Quote
holdmybeer wrote:The ISK after activating KR should also go to CONCORD, not to players.
This is just a thought I had after noticing half of my overview is filled with t1 industrials with killrights on them. I'm getting tired of that and this would fix it for me. Eve would be a better place for everyone without those hundreds of t1 industrials autopiloting just in the hopes of getting killed, legally.
This kind of bot aspirancy is a cancer that needs immediate punishment
You know when CODE. (partially) agrees with you, the kittens are about to get real. |
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
89
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Posted - 2015.08.31 17:37:31 -
[8] - Quote
holdmybeer wrote:This is just a thought I had after noticing half of my overview is filled with t1 industrials with killrights on them. I'm getting tired of that and this would fix it for me. Is ganking CODE alts against the CODE?
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
11547
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Posted - 2015.08.31 17:47:12 -
[9] - Quote
What's with all the complaints about kill right scams these days?! Seriously , even before it became trendy I always checked the price.
It's not like they're actually effecting anyone, you actively need to decide to engage in this to get cought out,
What's the issue?
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Lena Lazair
Sefrim
542
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Posted - 2015.08.31 17:54:26 -
[10] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:What's the issue?
The issue, as pretty clearly described in the OP, is that 1) EVE doesn't need any more ISK faucets, especially not one that is just a minor variation of something that was ALREADY removed by CCP once (insurance fraud) and 2) when 98% of KR's on the overview are fraud it just becomes a pointless and ignored mechanic in a game that already has too many trivialized mechanics. |
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
3245
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Posted - 2015.08.31 18:28:02 -
[11] - Quote
Edit: nevermind, I can't brain today, I have the dumb.
Still, it's a silly idea and smells of "one more nerf".
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
CODE. forum - everyone's welcome (no shiptoasters)
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
11548
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Posted - 2015.08.31 19:26:38 -
[12] - Quote
Lena Lazair wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:What's the issue? The issue, as pretty clearly described in the OP, is that 1) EVE doesn't need any more ISK faucets, especially not one that is just a minor variation of something that was ALREADY removed by CCP once (insurance fraud) and 2) when 98% of KR's on the overview are fraud it just becomes a pointless and ignored mechanic in a game that already has too many trivialized mechanics. Again, what's the issue?
You need to be fairly thick to fall for this and 98 % of the killrights were always stupidly expensive anyway well before people started scamming with them, there's simply more of them around now.
Anyway the best way to use a kr is by coordinating with the person holding it for revenge, and having them share it with you specifically,this hasn't changed.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Arthur Aihaken
Chig
4606
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Posted - 2015.08.31 21:41:34 -
[13] - Quote
holdmybeer wrote:The ISK after activating KR should also go to CONCORD, not to players. This is a really interesting idea. I like it.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
755
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Posted - 2015.08.31 22:14:22 -
[14] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Lena Lazair wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:What's the issue? The issue, as pretty clearly described in the OP, is that 1) EVE doesn't need any more ISK faucets, especially not one that is just a minor variation of something that was ALREADY removed by CCP once (insurance fraud) and 2) when 98% of KR's on the overview are fraud it just becomes a pointless and ignored mechanic in a game that already has too many trivialized mechanics. Again, what's the issue? You need to be fairly thick to fall for this and 98 % of the killrights were always stupidly expensive anyway well before people started scamming with them, there's simply more of them around now. Anyway the best way to use a kr is by coordinating with the person holding it for revenge, and having them share it with you specifically,this hasn't changed.
This really. Seems like target selection has found its way to empire. the choice to kill the target or to not kill the target. This pvp 101 really. Seems in empire the mark just gets paid somewhat at the end of it. I call that a nice introduction to newer peeps. Vice you know....hitting bait and going wtf as local spikes (gate jumps by fast movers or cyno lighting, both can suck). Like the one time I jumped recon bait like a dumbass. What followed that cyno in....my eve char didn't crap right for a week after lol.
But that's me with out of empire time. 0.0 where KR not even needed. Some targets...you just let live when the spidey sense is tingling.
Just not getting this. Empire pvp wants targets. Seems to get them now. Now they don't like how they get targets. People never happy it seems. |
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
1139
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Posted - 2015.09.01 01:20:48 -
[15] - Quote
The pilot that activates the killright gets a dank kill. The pilot with the killright makes some dank ISK. What's the problem?
I think most of the people activating the killrights understand what's going on and do it anyways. Even if they don't who cares? They saw the price, they accepted it, they got their kill.
This isn't an ISK faucet by the way, it's an ISK sink. You don't calculate the total ISK the pilot earns. You calculate the amount of ISK entering/leaving the game.
There are all our dominion
Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
3251
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Posted - 2015.09.01 01:25:45 -
[16] - Quote
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote: This isn't an ISK faucet by the way, it's an ISK sink. You don't calculate the total ISK the pilot earns. You calculate the amount of ISK entering/leaving the game.
I think the complaint is that the person getting blown up in this scenario is getting an insurance payout, so that's a faucet. Dude wants you get to get punished twice for getting Concorded.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
CODE. forum - everyone's welcome (no shiptoasters)
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Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
224
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Posted - 2015.09.01 01:29:55 -
[17] - Quote
i think what this is about.......... For example i heard from a friend who sat watching some orca pilot on the jita 4-4 undock either flashy yellow or with a KR. He told he found out after some extensive investigation that this pilot ha any KR set just below the ship worth, but between that cost and the insurance payout was making profit on every loss....just grabbed another orca and kept at it.
I think it is this type of insurance fraud that is being mentioned here....an yeha it should stop.
If not the insurance payouts being stopped then i could also go for any KR monies being paid to concord instead of pilots that sell them. |
Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
209
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Posted - 2015.09.01 01:48:36 -
[18] - Quote
You know, killright money going to Concord could make sense. It's like a micro wardec after all.
Insurance payout is a bit more tricky though. As other posters have mentioned, people have make it another faucet. But that IS what insurance is for, right? I think these are separate issues that need to be considered and worked on separately. Insurance could use a complete overhaul of what and when things are covered.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Lena Lazair
Sefrim
542
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Posted - 2015.09.01 02:17:45 -
[19] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Edit: nevermind, I can't brain today, I have the dumb.
Still, it's a silly idea and smells of "one more nerf".
One more nerf to what, exactly? The only playstyle it affects is the one that came up from out of nothing when this mechanic interaction was introduced.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:This isn't an ISK faucet by the way, it's an ISK sink. You don't calculate the total ISK the pilot earns. You calculate the amount of ISK entering/leaving the game.
KR money gets transferred from A to B. No net change in in-game ISK.
Insurance money from CONCORD gets created from thin air. This IS a faucet.
Now generally insurance as a faucet is not a problem because it's not profitable, so people don't go out of their way to do it. However with the KR/insurance interaction providing profit, there is incentive to continually do this indefinitely, just as there was during the original insurance fraud problems.
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