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Forum Toon
State War Academy Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2015.09.10 17:50:55 -
[31] - Quote
the BC with nos problem is when you use any weapon system which requires cap you can't kill it. and if you don't have enough dps tossed in before the nos starts you are pretty screwed. |
Zihao
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
59
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Posted - 2015.09.10 19:43:13 -
[32] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Dato Koppla wrote:Dagan wasn't that bad honestly, he doesn't do much damage and as a newbie I was able to tank it and though I couldn't break him on the first try, I kept toying with my fit to do more and more damage till I finally killed him.
It's that dude, Kristan Parthus or something like that (the BC rat that has a NOS). That guy messed me up so badly, I think I lost like 3 Merlins to him lol. I hardly remember that one, maybe I was just lucky using an AC fit, or maybe I had a cap booster?
It's trivial if you kite her outside the range of her neutralizer. If you did it in a drone ship with 3 lights and set to keep at range, you'd probably never notice she was anything special. |
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
1100
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Posted - 2015.09.12 05:53:54 -
[33] - Quote
Zihao wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Zihao wrote:You clearly missed my point. I don't think I did. in most ways I agree with it. Many things can be learned, and I spend most of my time on the forums trying to help people out. There are still things that must be learned by playing the game. I could watch chessur's slicer video a 100 times, but chessur would still be a better slicer pilot. I'm glad we agree, and I certainly don't disagree that you learn by doing, but you learn what to do by observing others, as well as trial and error. Returning to my original point: there's nothing fruitful about the observation that a new player and a veteran player are two different types of player, particularly because the implication is that said new player can attempt to emulate, but will never succeed in doing so. Amber Starview wrote: Wow how did u come to that conclusion from what I wrote ? you trying to troll me is lame
I don't know how I'm trolling you. I just pointed out the OP put up some useful information and you derided it with a completely banal observation that helped nobody and only served to highlight your dim view of new players' abilities.
Actually, it's a remarkably good observation and very useful when you consider the fact that when a new player comes to EvE for the first time and does the starter missions, the single most common misperception at that stage is that skill points and shiny ships are the keys to "winning" EvE. New people get the idea stuck in their heads that you can't do anything either useful or fun until you level up to a certain point--which is both flat-out wrong and also sadly encouraged by a certain segment of players in-game.
The knowledge that player skills are far more important than character skills is a central, useful, and encouraging idea. And this happens to be a perfect thread to post that information in since it was posted by someone who had prior experience coming back with a new toon and having success with one of the most common challenges for new players. This thread is likely to have a good hit rate for new players coming and searching for the solution to the Dagan problem.
I think you're just being contrary for the sake of being contrary.
I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
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Glathull
Warlock Assassins
1100
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Posted - 2015.09.12 06:03:26 -
[34] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:I thought the entire point of degan was to get newbies to ask for help.
I think it is, and it definitely worked on me on my first toon. I was totally bingeing on EvE when I first got into it and played for a couple of days straight (minus DT) back in 2007. I was maybe 18 hours old when I ran into Dagan and had absolutely no ******* clue how to fit a ship or anything. I was just flying whatever was free with a horrible assortment of god-awful modules that I had been given from the tutorials. I think I still had a bunch of civilian modules fitted.
Of course I couldn't do anything with that, so I went looking for help. Found a guy in local who was willing to help me out. He recruited me to his corp, taught me a little about fitting ships, showed me good online resources to learn more, and we've been real life friends ever since then. I even got him a job at one of my former companies a while back.
Anyway, I feel like the average power of a given ship is a good bit higher than it was back then. Maybe Dagan needs a rebalance to push the need for help a bit stronger. I've started several toons from scratch since then, and Dagan is a piece of cake now. But then again that's hard for me to judge because I have knowledge and skills that noobs don't have.
I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
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Zihao
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
65
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Posted - 2015.09.12 17:07:50 -
[35] - Quote
I don't think our propositions are mutually exclusive. I agree with everything you said about players skill. I also retain my conviction that "yeah but you're not a new player," is a throw-away observation meant to express cynicism rather than help anyone. Not that anyone is obligated to be helpful, but neither are we obligated not to call someone a cynic.
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Glathull
Warlock Assassins
1103
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Posted - 2015.09.13 05:57:25 -
[36] - Quote
Zihao wrote:I don't think our propositions are mutually exclusive. I agree with everything you said about players skill. I also retain my conviction that "yeah but you're not a new player," is a throw-away observation meant to express cynicism rather than help anyone. Not that anyone is obligated to be helpful, but neither are we obligated not to call someone a cynic.
I don't think you have a proposition.
I think you are being a whiny brat.
I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
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Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
639
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Posted - 2015.09.15 09:09:42 -
[37] - Quote
Zihao wrote:I don't think our propositions are mutually exclusive. I agree with everything you said about players skill. I also retain my conviction that "yeah but you're not a new player," is a throw-away observation meant to express cynicism rather than help anyone. Not that anyone is obligated to be helpful, but neither are we obligated not to call someone a cynic.
I don't see how that's a throwaway observation. A player two days into the game on their first account disposing of Mr. Dagan quickly and demonstrating the sort of fitting acumen displayed above would be far more impressive than a veteran doing it on their second, third, fourth etc. account.
It's not called the new player experience based on how challenging it is for veterans who kick off a focused skill plan the moment they log in. I could probably kill Dagan by the end of however long it took me to run through the epic arc.
That's actually an interesting challenge someone might undertake. |
Zihao
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
81
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Posted - 2015.09.16 16:52:51 -
[38] - Quote
Glathull wrote: I think you are being a whiny brat.
I think you're projecting, but I welcome a counter-argument if you have one.
Demerius Xenocratus wrote: I don't see how that's a throwaway observation.
You're not minmatar.
See how useful that was? |
Icarus fall
What Shall We Call It
7
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Posted - 2015.09.16 17:08:17 -
[39] - Quote
anyone that has the willpower to burn though the 50 missions and down dagan without quitting eve should be recognized. weathers its your first account ever eve or a new toon an older player started. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
649
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Posted - 2015.09.17 01:05:11 -
[40] - Quote
Zihao wrote:Glathull wrote: I think you are being a whiny brat.
I think you're projecting, but I welcome a counter-argument if you have one. In case you've forgotten. I'm the one who congratulated the OP on a constructive post. You're here defending the player who wrote it off with a sentence fragment. Demerius Xenocratus wrote: I don't see how that's a throwaway observation.
You're not minmatar. See how useful that was?
That's a meaningless statement and irrelevant to everything I said.
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