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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
16
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Posted - 2015.09.07 23:02:17 -
[61] - Quote
PhiloJones wrote:continued...
Ignoring this problem would be like curing cancer by waiting for it to kill the patient. In this case the cancer is the players exploiting the plex system for gambling or personal rl$ profits. The patient is the real player base who wants to use the system as intended to play the game. You can ignore this until the game dies or cut out the cancer.
Quoted this but read all the rest.
You in this example presumes that the said cancer is in the "GAME", but it is not.
It is essentially the problem with most open market mmo. You try to punish the people violating the rule, but you dont bother about those not violating the rule but benefiting from it. Much like the fact that concord kills the player attacking but leaves the one comming to scavenge alone. What really pays out in a gank is not to kill the freighter, is to get their cargo, or receive the ransom, which is directly proportional to the threat of losing said cargo.
Same thing. You cannot end the practice if there is a reward free from punishment. It wont make it go away, just make it more profitable.
Markee Dragon has an interview with a guy on the Gold Farms market. Watch it and you will see a lot of what people dont usually understand about third part RMT over mmos.
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TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1254
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Posted - 2015.09.07 23:04:16 -
[62] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:ShadowandLight wrote:
- Streamers can charge $5 for paid subs and then give them better prize chances (or just better prizes all together)
2. This is explicitly prohibited in CCP's monetization policy which was mentioned elsewhere in this very thread. Exactly this is happening on Twitch by atleast two prominent streamers. If not at this exact moment, then it was atleast 1-2 weeks ago.
No it isn't. Read the Reddit thread about the screenshot you're most likely referring to and you'll see why it's not the case. Otherwise, report them to CCP if you're so sure and they'll take action.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3298
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Posted - 2015.09.07 23:19:55 -
[63] - Quote
PhiloJones wrote:I think the problem he is trying to describe is this.
Player 1 - Want to play eve and buy plex with isk to play eve. Player 2 - Wants to buy plex with isk "not to play eve" but to gamble with it in out of game gambling site Player 3 - Wants to convert isk into $ out of game i.e. RMT
Player 1 is mining his asteroid and saves up 500 Mill isk. He goes to the trade hub to buy his plex and finds that the isk price of the plex has doubled and now he can't afford to keep playing the game so he has to unsub.
You do realize the effective dollar/hour here right? A subscription costs $14.95...a PLEX is $19.95. If at 25 million ISK/hour mining in HS that is roughly 20 hours or about $4/hour (at PLEX at 500 million ISK). So unless that person really, really loves mining they are doing it wrong. Dig into that RL wallet and pay the $14.95. It is even worse for PLEX at a billion ISK since that means this player has to spend 40 hours getting that PLEX. That is the equivalent of a full time job.
Or to put it differently if that players finances are such that he has to spend 20-40 hours a week to "afford" his subscription it is time to let it go and use that time earning an income in RL.
Sorry, if this sounds harsh, but somebody had to say it. Look at the implicit wage when talking about PLEX, if it is outrageously low...STOP.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25978
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Posted - 2015.09.07 23:37:14 -
[64] - Quote
Freelancer117 wrote:Please do not twist my words to suit your own views, and calling me obtrusive to. It was the only option since your description of the issue was completely opaque and incoherent. You didn't actually describe what the issue was, either with the stream in question or with the EULA. This had to be cobbled together from various sources, and if in spite of this, the issue described still isn't what you were after, you need to communicate what it is you're actually complaining about.
Quote:* a(ny) gambling / lottery site that has one or more plex to trade for real money are not authorized vendors. * a(ny) gambling / lottey site uses real money to trade for a higher chance to acquire said plex * a(ny) plex is to be qualified as an in game item, and CCP should keep their promise to make it so. All of this is already covered by the EULA/ToS in a very clear and concise manner. All of it is already the case. There is no loophole in all of this GÇö if you feel there is one, explain it. Use your words. From what has been discovered, the deal you're complaining about isn't actually about PLEX, but about out-of-game time codes, which follow different rules.
ShadowandLight wrote:There is inconsistencies with CCP's stance on RMT all over the place.
- You can create a website, hire writers with isk while earning $ from advertisers - Streamers can charge $5 for paid subs and then give them better prize chances (or just better prizes all together) - You can buy PLEX's in the Steam Store using cash earned from other things (the example used was selling a knife from CS:GO and using that cash to buy PLEX's) #1 Yes, paying ISK for community-related services has always been allowed. There is no RMT in this since you are not trading any real money for any in-game assets.
#2 is strictly prohibited.
#3 is, unsurprisingly, not against the rules. You are using cash to buy a PLEX. This is how you always buy PLEX. CCP doesn't particularly care if you got that cash by slaving away at the office, by collecting empty cans, by selling scout cookies, by siphoning off LJM funds, or by robbing old ladies. At the end of the day, you give CCP cash; CCP gives you a PLEX. There is no RMT.
There is nothing inconsistent about your examples.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Estevan Valladares
WorldTradersGuild.Com
16
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Posted - 2015.09.07 23:41:16 -
[65] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Freelancer117 wrote:Please do not twist my words to suit your own views, and calling me obtrusive to. It was the only option since your description of the issue was completely opaque and incoherent. You didn't actually describe what the issue was, either with the stream in question or with the EULA. This had to be cobbled together from various sources, and if in spite of this, the issue described still isn't what you were after, you need to communicate what it is you're actually complaining about. Quote:* a(ny) gambling / lottery site that has one or more plex to trade for real money are not authorized vendors. * a(ny) gambling / lottey site uses real money to trade for a higher chance to acquire said plex * a(ny) plex is to be qualified as an in game item, and CCP should keep their promise to make it so. All of this is already covered by the EULA/ToS in a very clear and concise manner. All of it is already the case. There is no loophole in all of this GÇö if you feel there is one, explain it. Use your words. From what has been discovered, the deal you're complaining about isn't actually about PLEX, but about out-of-game time codes, which follow different rules. ShadowandLight wrote:There is inconsistencies with CCP's stance on RMT all over the place.
- You can create a website, hire writers with isk while earning $ from advertisers - Streamers can charge $5 for paid subs and then give them better prize chances (or just better prizes all together) - You can buy PLEX's in the Steam Store using cash earned from other things (the example used was selling a knife from CS:GO and using that cash to buy PLEX's) #1 Yes, paying ISK for community-related services has always been allowed. There is no RMT in this since you are not trading any real money for any in-game assets. #2 is strictly prohibited. #3 is, unsurprisingly, not against the rules. You are using cash to buy a PLEX. This is how you always buy PLEX. CCP doesn't particularly care if you got that cash by slaving away at the office, by collecting empty cans, by selling scout cookies, by siphoning off LJM funds, or by robbing old ladies. At the end of the day, you give CCP cash; CCP gives you a PLEX. There is no RMT. There is nothing inconsistent about your examples.
One thing:
Twitch, idk youtube, promotes the special rewards for those supporting the broadcaster, which means indirectly connection between paying the broadcaster with receiving prizes. That is unfortunately something that happens.
WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul
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Jamie 'Glitterbomb' Johnson
Nigerian Trust Investments Legitimate Trade Establishments
0
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Posted - 2015.09.08 00:14:14 -
[66] - Quote
Thanks for signing your post. Otherwise we would have no way of telling who wrote it. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25978
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Posted - 2015.09.08 00:17:17 -
[67] - Quote
Estevan Valladares wrote:One thing:
Twitch, idk youtube, promotes the special rewards for those supporting the broadcaster, which means indirectly connection between paying the broadcaster with receiving prizes. That is unfortunately something that happens. That's why the streaming ToS strictly prohibits locking off EVE-related content (especially contests and give-aways) behind pay-walls.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
463
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Posted - 2015.09.08 00:33:36 -
[68] - Quote
This sounds suspiciously like an AFK Cloaking thread.... |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
39970
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Posted - 2015.09.08 00:46:09 -
[69] - Quote
Freelancer117 wrote:Using semantics to say that eve time codes which are not yet used, are not plex yet It's just a fact.
You can pretend it's not all you want, but that doesn't make you right.
The big disctinction between the two and the reason why one complies with CCP's policy stance and the other doesn't, is that a code is an out of game thing, while a PLEX is an in game item.
This whole thing feels like you are trying to manufacture outrage by misrepresenting what occurs on that twitch stream. Go write a blog if you want to do that.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Natural420
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
5
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Posted - 2015.09.08 07:22:24 -
[70] - Quote
Honestly , who cares. |
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Salvos Rhoska
1375
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Posted - 2015.09.08 09:11:25 -
[71] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:ShadowandLight wrote:
- Streamers can charge $5 for paid subs and then give them better prize chances (or just better prizes all together)
2. This is explicitly prohibited in CCP's monetization policy which was mentioned elsewhere in this very thread. Exactly this is happening on Twitch by atleast two prominent streamers. If not at this exact moment, then it was atleast 1-2 weeks ago. No it isn't. Read the Reddit thread about the screenshot you're most likely referring to and you'll see why it's not the case. Otherwise, report them to CCP if you're so sure and they'll take action.
Im not referring to the screenshots. If you read the thread, Ive already specifically said earlier that those are only modifiers for how many tickets un/subbed viewers accrue.
Im referring to separate raffles held exclusively for subbed twitch users. I cant speak to which specific prizes they raffled, or whether those consitute a breach of TOS/EULA, or what legal jurisdictions apply which interpretations to those.
Furthermore, an increased rate of ticket earning for subs, or a sum grant of tickets when someone subs, becomes a bought advantage in such raffles which allow more than 1 ticket entry per raffle. (Again, subject to what CCP item is being raffled).
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Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
334
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Posted - 2015.09.08 09:50:09 -
[72] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Freelancer117 wrote:Using semantics to say that eve time codes which are not yet used, are not plex yet It's just a fact. You can pretend it's not all you want, but that doesn't make you right. The big disctinction between the two and the reason why one complies with CCP's policy stance and the other doesn't, is that a code is an out of game thing, while a PLEX is an in game item. This whole thing feels like you are trying to manufacture outrage by misrepresenting what occurs on that twitch stream. Go write a blog if you want to do that.
Thanks to everyone posting, it's good to disagree to, and get your perspectives
What about your view about my first line of this thread, my main point raised towards the Company:
Is Plex going to be an in game item only, to be used for all of CCP games services that are sold through the New Eden store ?
The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans.
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25978
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Posted - 2015.09.08 10:04:47 -
[73] - Quote
Freelancer117 wrote:What about your view about my first line of this thread, my main point raised towards the Company:
Is Plex going to be an in game item only, to be used for all of CCP games services that are sold through the New Eden store ? It already is an in-game item only.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
39974
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Posted - 2015.09.08 11:14:44 -
[74] - Quote
Freelancer117 wrote:What about your view about my first line of this thread, my main point raised towards the Company:
Is Plex going to be an in game item only, to be used for all of CCP games services that are sold through the New Eden store ? PLEX is already an in game item only as far as CCP are concerned and no, it doesn't seem to be used for all CCP services as there is also AURUM.
As far as community sites using PLEX to sponsor activities or use in other ways, then as long as they stick with CCP policies on that sort of thing, then more power to them.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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ISD FlowingSpice
ISD STAR
22
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Posted - 2015.09.08 14:06:38 -
[75] - Quote
22. Posting regarding RMT (Real Money Trading) is prohibited.
Posts discussing, linking to, or advertising RMT, including but not limited to the sale of in game items, assets, currency, characters or game accounts for real life money are strictly prohibited.
Locked. |
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