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Shadow Mancer
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
2
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Posted - 2011.12.11 03:39:00 -
[31] - Quote
1. Matari's strength: good falloff, fast lock, better tracking, versatile shield tank or armor tank or nano phoon tank. Minmatar has vagabond which is fun and fast.
2. Amarr's strength: laser never run out bullets, good em damage. Awesome armor tank, Curse and bhaalgorn are uperawesome ships.
I trained for.matari first than amarr |
Korvus Falek
Depraved Corruption
1
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Posted - 2011.12.11 06:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
Max Von Sydow wrote:Do like me, train both.
This guy has it right. Blood Raider ships ftmfw.
Bhaalgorn, Ashimmu, Cruor = best ships ever. |
VKhaun Vex
Viziam Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2011.12.11 06:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
Feriluce wrote:Thanks for the thoughts everyone. I think im going to go for minmatar for now. It just seems a bit more varied, and I'm not too fond of being out of cap all the time.
I'm rather inexperienced and wouldn't pretend to know enough to give a recommendation, but I think it should be noted that Minmatar don't have the capacitor strength of Amarr ships and nothing says you can't fly an Amarr ship with projectiles. I've seen a few threads about Abaddons with artillery, down to Vengeance/Malediction with auto cannons. Bonused capacitors that were large to begin with, using zero cap weapons has them pulling sick active tank numbers. You could easily have the best of both worlds training Amarr and projectile turrets.
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Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2011.12.11 07:50:00 -
[34] - Quote
VKhaun Vex wrote: You could easily have the best of both worlds training Amarr and projectile turrets.
Using a bandaid aint best of the both worlds. Not to mention you still get neuted out by the capless boys with you shiny active tank setup. |
Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
385
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Posted - 2011.12.11 09:15:00 -
[35] - Quote
If i was the OP, i would make sure i could fly and fit every Caldari T1 ship there is, then fly a select number of T2 ships. For example: - All T1 and T2 frigates - HACs, Recons, logistics.
T1 all the way to BS though, including the badgers.
Sink some SPs into gunnery, and aim for AWU 4 as well, then you can aim for T2 large projectiles (imo better than T2 hybrids). Then once you cross train over, it will take far less time to fit up and T1 Matar ship you like.
Also, aim hard for the Tengu, ven if you dont get one straight away. They are awesome PVE income making machines should you ever get poor The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why? |
DeBingJos
T.R.I.A.D
147
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Posted - 2011.12.11 09:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
As always, most of the people are comparing the wrong damage numbers.
When a hurricane has 400dps according to EFT and a harbinger has 350dps. The harbi will still outdamage the cane.
Reason is simple: The harbi will be fighting at optimal (+- 20km) while the cane will be fighting in falloff.
I think most of the people in this thread do not fly the ships because this is BASIC knowledge! Yes BASIC!!!
The numbers in EFT for minmatar dps should be halved if you want real numbers.
Fix FW ! |
Takeshi Yamato
ALA Biomedical
30
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Posted - 2011.12.11 10:38:00 -
[37] - Quote
DeBingJos wrote:As always, most of the people are comparing the wrong damage numbers.
When a hurricane has 400dps according to EFT and a harbinger has 350dps. The harbi will still outdamage the cane.
Reason is simple: The harbi will be fighting at optimal (+- 20km) while the cane will be fighting in falloff.
I think most of the people in this thread do not fly the ships because this is BASIC knowledge! Yes BASIC!!!
The numbers in EFT for minmatar dps should be halved if you want real numbers.
Hurricane still wins due to superior damage types, neuting and speed. Explains why Hurricanes are several times more popular than Harbingers despite shallow EFT comparisons. |
DeBingJos
T.R.I.A.D
147
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Posted - 2011.12.11 10:53:00 -
[38] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:DeBingJos wrote:As always, most of the people are comparing the wrong damage numbers.
When a hurricane has 400dps according to EFT and a harbinger has 350dps. The harbi will still outdamage the cane.
Reason is simple: The harbi will be fighting at optimal (+- 20km) while the cane will be fighting in falloff.
I think most of the people in this thread do not fly the ships because this is BASIC knowledge! Yes BASIC!!!
The numbers in EFT for minmatar dps should be halved if you want real numbers.
Hurricane still wins due to superior damage types, neuting and speed. Explains why Hurricanes are several times more popular than Harbingers despite shallow EFT comparisons. Using the 425mm AC and FMP setups posted earlier: Harbi: 68k EHP vs Barrage, 503 dps vs the Hurricane at 15 km. Hurricane: 93k EHP vs Scorch, 429 dps vs Harbi at 15 km. The Hurricane is 129 m/s faster and should win this easily.
Troll? At all lv 5 skills WITH OVERHEAT and 3x Gyrostab II I get 375dps at 15km from a cane with barrage. ALL LV 5 WITH OVERHEAT and 3 gyro's
Please tell my how you got your numbers?
Fix FW ! |
Takeshi Yamato
ALA Biomedical
30
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Posted - 2011.12.11 11:12:00 -
[39] - Quote
DeBingJos wrote:Please tell my how you got your numbers?
http://i39.tinypic.com/28clqvp.jpg
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Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2011.12.11 14:36:00 -
[40] - Quote
Man, you're wasting your time on some troll!
Every non idiot knows if you want a good pvp fly minmatar. And the proper way to fly Amarr ships is to fit ACs since lasers suck the juice.
I'm not saying minmatar is OP, they are just very versatile. So when Amarr gets lower PG req. for lasers and changeable damage types I guess they will be just like Minnies or Gallentes now in PvP. I don't feed the trolls. |
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DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
524
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Posted - 2011.12.11 14:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
Kingwood wrote: Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Adaptive Nano Plating II
and
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
lol. I like your metas. The Cane doesn't have these issues.
Also, you're a huge failure of an EFT-warrior. Amarr Scorch (EM+therm) damage vs Cane armour tank = 93k ehp for the Cane Hurricane Fusion (exp + kin) damage vs Harbinger armour tank = 58k ehp for the Harby
It looks like Winmatar win again! Selectable damage types! An EFT-warrior like you clearly can't comprehend anything as complex as that or the 30% better tracking, range control or overheat sustainability either. |
Lili Lu
52
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Posted - 2011.12.11 18:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
Well, OP as you are somewhat new to the game I would say you might want to consider Gallente in the mix and not Minmatar. The reason for this is that you have already invested 8mil in skills for Caldari ships and making use of that later on there would be possibilities of flying pirate faction ships. There is no Caldari/Minmatar pirate faction. There are Sansha (Calamari) and Gurista (Galcaldari) ships.
Amarr ships are armor tankers. No getting around that. There are some tech II and tech III missile boats using HAMs so any sp invested in missiles would not be wasted there. Cap skills reign supreme with the laser boats. And, tech II guns are necessary to get the most out of Amarr in pvp. In pve you can make use of tech I guns (beams). The eventual mission boat destination with having Amarr and Caldari is the Nightmare. It is a shield tanking laser ship. Acutally, it and the Absolution are probably two of the best incursion ships in the game.
In pvp, the Abaddon, Zealot and Legion get used. Also, the Curse and Pilgrim in smaller scale pvp. Lastly, if you go logi and commands (a long distance goal really) the Guardian and Damnation are heavily used.
Gallente ships are a more complex option in some ways. For pve you will want drone boats and your eventual goal would be the Dominix variants (Domi, Navy Domi, and Rattlesnake (yes even though it looks like a scorpion )). The Gila and Ishtar are also level 4 misison capable. Gallente and Caldari Hybrid ships are experiencing renewed interest with the recent Hybrid gun buff. They are no longer the dismal performers they used to be (Hyperion, Mega and even the Caldari Rokh).
In pvp the Proteus and Lachesis show up a lot on killboards. The Mega has always been heavily used for pvp. The Taranis is a good combat frig. The Ishkur as well.
Minmatar would not make use of any of your skills really. You said your shield sp was minimal. And, even though they often have missile hardpoints they often end up fitting neuts or other stuff there. Everyone who has no experience with them it seems are whining for a nerf to projectiles and Minmatar ships. Sadly if it happens CCP nerfs can be quite harsh.
So there you have it. Hopefully you will have fun with whatever your choice is. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
464
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Posted - 2011.12.11 20:24:00 -
[43] - Quote
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:Train up frigs to choose a weapon system. Try incursus with blasters, merlin with rails, rifter with ac's or slicer with pulses. Based on that, make your choice for guns/ships to train.
This is not very demonstrative of how good the line up is. Small blasters rails were always good, We've never asked to improve them more but to improve med/large ones.
Now we got realy awesome small rails/blasters and still meh med/large blasters/rails (actually this might has well come now from individual ship bonus that need tweaks)
Overall Amarr have balanced sub cap lineup, some ships are crappy no one will doubt about this but you have excellent models in each ship type and you can't go wrong on this route even at cap level with archons revelations or leviathans.
Minmatar are kings of the hill in sub cap but meh at cap level, gallente are total underdogs at sub cap level and not bad at cap level, caldari have some very nice ships on each cap and sub cap level. Imho.
Go amarr if you're not intending to cross train soon (read double training race=more skills to train) knowing you can go from frig to titans they have always some nice option to use if not the best.
Minmatar is the easy way to go, lots of slots, tons of pg/cpu, full guns dmg selection etc and very fun to use either pve/pvp |
Kingwood
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
19
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Posted - 2011.12.11 21:41:00 -
[44] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote: lol. I like your metas. The Cane doesn't have these issues.
Also, you're a huge failure of an EFT-warrior. Amarr Scorch (EM+therm) damage vs Cane armour tank = 93k ehp for the Cane Hurricane Fusion (exp + kin) damage vs Harbinger armour tank = 58k ehp for the Harby
It looks like Winmatar win again! Selectable damage types! An EFT-warrior like you clearly can't comprehend anything as complex as that or the 30% better tracking, range control or overheat sustainability either.
I like them too. Minmatar has easier fitting issues, so what?
Yes, I am obviously an EFT warrior and have no clue about the game. How about we fight a 1 on 1, me in a Harbinger vs you in a Hurricane. Fits of our own choosing, no implants so screenshots will have to be provided before the fight. Each of us provides 1 billion, winner takes all.
Really tired of your whining - put up or shut up.
Edit: I should just put up a whine thread also arguing along your lines comparing the Drake to the Hurricane - complaining about how the Drake outdoes the Hurricane in almost every aspect and crying for a buff.
Edit2: Standard PvP fits - so no retardedness fitting EM/Therm hardeners on your cane. |
kyrieee
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.12.11 21:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
Kingwood wrote:DarkAegix wrote: lol. I like your metas. The Cane doesn't have these issues.
Also, you're a huge failure of an EFT-warrior. Amarr Scorch (EM+therm) damage vs Cane armour tank = 93k ehp for the Cane Hurricane Fusion (exp + kin) damage vs Harbinger armour tank = 58k ehp for the Harby
It looks like Winmatar win again! Selectable damage types! An EFT-warrior like you clearly can't comprehend anything as complex as that or the 30% better tracking, range control or overheat sustainability either.
I like them too. Minmatar has easier fitting issues, so what? Yes, I am obviously an EFT warrior and have no clue about the game. How about we fight a 1 on 1, me in a Harbinger vs you in a Hurricane. Fits of our own choosing, no implants so screenshots will have to be provided before the fight. Each of us provides 1 billion, winner takes all.
There are implants on podmails now ;) Better method |
Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2011.12.11 22:54:00 -
[46] - Quote
Kingwood wrote:DarkAegix wrote: lol. I like your metas. The Cane doesn't have these issues.
Also, you're a huge failure of an EFT-warrior. Amarr Scorch (EM+therm) damage vs Cane armour tank = 93k ehp for the Cane Hurricane Fusion (exp + kin) damage vs Harbinger armour tank = 58k ehp for the Harby
It looks like Winmatar win again! Selectable damage types! An EFT-warrior like you clearly can't comprehend anything as complex as that or the 30% better tracking, range control or overheat sustainability either.
I like them too. Minmatar has easier fitting issues, so what? Yes, I am obviously an EFT warrior and have no clue about the game. How about we fight a 1 on 1, me in a Harbinger vs you in a Hurricane. Fits of our own choosing, no implants so screenshots will have to be provided before the fight. Each of us provides 1 billion, winner takes all. Really tired of your whining - put up or shut up. Edit: I should just put up a whine thread also arguing along your lines comparing the Drake to the Hurricane - complaining about how the Drake outdoes the Hurricane in almost every aspect and crying for a buff. Edit2: Standard PvP fits - so no retardedness fitting EM/Therm hardeners on your cane.
Just stop it. Everyone knows Hurricane is much better then a Harbinger and a Drake is just good as a Cane. No one cares if you win or loose.
If Harbinger was good as a Cane everyone would fly it. You can't fool statistics: Canes outnumber Harbingers 12 to 1. I don't feed the trolls. |
Feriluce
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2011.12.11 23:41:00 -
[47] - Quote
Fix My Lasers wrote:Kingwood wrote:DarkAegix wrote: lol. I like your metas. The Cane doesn't have these issues.
Also, you're a huge failure of an EFT-warrior. Amarr Scorch (EM+therm) damage vs Cane armour tank = 93k ehp for the Cane Hurricane Fusion (exp + kin) damage vs Harbinger armour tank = 58k ehp for the Harby
It looks like Winmatar win again! Selectable damage types! An EFT-warrior like you clearly can't comprehend anything as complex as that or the 30% better tracking, range control or overheat sustainability either.
I like them too. Minmatar has easier fitting issues, so what? Yes, I am obviously an EFT warrior and have no clue about the game. How about we fight a 1 on 1, me in a Harbinger vs you in a Hurricane. Fits of our own choosing, no implants so screenshots will have to be provided before the fight. Each of us provides 1 billion, winner takes all. Really tired of your whining - put up or shut up. Edit: I should just put up a whine thread also arguing along your lines comparing the Drake to the Hurricane - complaining about how the Drake outdoes the Hurricane in almost every aspect and crying for a buff. Edit2: Standard PvP fits - so no retardedness fitting EM/Therm hardeners on your cane. Just stop it. Everyone knows Hurricane is much better then a Harbinger and a Drake is just good as a Cane. No one cares if you win or loose. If Harbinger was good as a Cane everyone would fly it. You can't fool statistics: Canes outnumber Harbingers 12 to 1.
I'm not saying your wrong, but I'd like to add that justin bieber also has a lot of fans. Popular does not have to equal good.
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Rharkon
Askari Mining Co. New Genesis Syndicate
1
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Posted - 2011.12.12 01:19:00 -
[48] - Quote
I only picked up the game a month ago (took the trial, came back years later) and I have to admit that if I didn't pick Gallente, I would have picked Minmatar. I just like the design/names of the ships they've got.
That's not to say that Amarr isn't neat-looking too. They're just in a close second. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
54
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Posted - 2011.12.12 01:45:00 -
[49] - Quote
Fix My Lasers wrote:[ If Harbinger was good as a Cane everyone would fly it. You can't fool statistics: Canes outnumber Harbingers 12 to 1.
Harbi has the same issue that Myrm does.
If you shield tank, drake does it better, and if you need to go fast ....well hurricane is right there.
As long as roaming gangs rely on speed and/or range that is going to be the way of things because neither ships is particularly fast or well tanked in comparison to the Hurricane and Drake.......or any of the tier 3s for that matter.
So unless you are a RP'er that pigeonholes into one race, there is no real reason to fly a Myrm or Harbi over a Cane or Drake. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
464
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Posted - 2011.12.12 07:46:00 -
[50] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Fix My Lasers wrote:[ If Harbinger was good as a Cane everyone would fly it. You can't fool statistics: Canes outnumber Harbingers 12 to 1. Harbi has the same issue that Myrm does. If you shield tank, drake does it better, and if you need to go fast ....well hurricane is right there. As long as roaming gangs rely on speed and/or range that is going to be the way of things because neither ships is particularly fast or well tanked in comparison to the Hurricane and Drake.......or any of the tier 3s for that matter. So unless you are a RP'er that pigeonholes into one race, there is no real reason to fly a Myrm or Harbi over a Cane or Drake.
pick 10 harby, primary target "go" cane 1 is out, repeat. |
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Kingwood
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
19
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Posted - 2011.12.12 10:37:00 -
[51] - Quote
Fix My Lasers wrote:
Just stop it. Everyone knows Hurricane is much better then a Harbinger and a Drake is just good as a Cane. No one cares if you win or loose.
If Harbinger was good as a Cane everyone would fly it. You can't fool statistics: Canes outnumber Harbingers 12 to 1.
Doesn't matter, he didn't take the 1 on 1 because he was afraid I might bring a shield tanked Harb. Considering the Shield-Harb was put down in this thread because of having to fit Meta mods and cap issues I'm not sure what to say.
Being afraid of a shield tanked Harb after so vocally asserting that a Hurricane absolutely destroys a Harbinger every time doesn't make a lot of sense, but so does a lot of the Minmatar whining. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
464
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Posted - 2011.12.12 11:48:00 -
[52] - Quote
Kingwood wrote:Fix My Lasers wrote:
Just stop it. Everyone knows Hurricane is much better then a Harbinger and a Drake is just good as a Cane. No one cares if you win or loose.
If Harbinger was good as a Cane everyone would fly it. You can't fool statistics: Canes outnumber Harbingers 12 to 1.
Doesn't matter, he didn't take the 1 on 1 because he was afraid I might bring a shield tanked Harb. Considering the Shield-Harb was put down in this thread because of having to fit Meta mods and cap issues I'm not sure what to say. Being afraid of a shield tanked Harb after so vocally asserting that a Hurricane absolutely destroys a Harbinger every time doesn't make a lot of sense, but so does a lot of the Minmatar whining.
Why shouldn't Minie pilots whine? -I'd like 8-8-8 slots layout to finally have some issues to fit those hurricanes because people are always complaining how easy is to fit one (witch is completely true)
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Kingwood
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
19
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Posted - 2011.12.12 12:00:00 -
[53] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:Why shouldn't Minie pilots whine? -I'd like 8-8-8 slots layout to finally have some issues to fit those hurricanes because people are always complaining how easy is to fit one (witch is completely true)
Don't think you understand my position. I'm saying Minmatar are fine, and the whining about them is not justified. Anywho, I'm out of this thread. Hf |
Billee Baub
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2011.12.12 12:36:00 -
[54] - Quote
This is a game that we play for fun. If you like the way Minnie ships look then fly em. If you look at a Tengu and want to fly that missile flinging beast then do that. The most paramount thing to understand is this, Pilot Skill is most important, SP's (no matter which race) are second. When you start to play you will see pilots in ships of every race doing just fine, the reason being they have spent time flying them and understand their strengths and weaknesses, they have trained in the skills to support those ships.
There are many people that will tell you one race or the other is the better to choose, in my opinion if you like to fly one of the races then just do it, there isn't necessarily a "best ship" in eve. Everything can and will get blown up no matter how many people told you it was OP or the best. This is the whole point of eve, do it your own way. One of my Corps top ranking pilots fly's ECM boats only, personally I have never wanted to fly an ECM ship, but to him thats the best thing in this game. Hence he fly's Caldari ships and has a blast while I fly Amarr brawlers and do the same. The two styles compliment each other very well actually lol.
As an Amarr focused pilot I can say that I enjoy the look and style that Amarr ships offer and thats why I fly em, just preference. Hope this helps.
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Alaric Faelen
Aquila Venatici Bringers of Death.
18
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Posted - 2011.12.13 17:37:00 -
[55] - Quote
No race is 'wrong' in Eve, just cross train.
I like to use Amarr armor tanked frigs like the Punisher, but with AC guns mounted. Sort of best of both worlds there. Lasers are cool and all, but due to cap limits, usually only viable on Amarr boats. Guns fit on pretty much anything so pick a tank type and go from there. Don't discount Caldari though. As already mentioned, they're geared to be the PvE win button, so grinding for isk to pay for PvP mayhem is made easier. Secondly, in the cruiser class, Caldari do well, making PvP affordable for low income players (like me). The Caracal can be a solid anti-frig platform, as I've been playing with, and the Blackbird is infamous for it's impact on otherwise cut and dried brawls- although that does mean training EW skills too.
Also remember that a few other race's ships use missile skills too, like the Malediction that uses rockets.
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