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Chesterfield Fancypantz
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve WormHole Occupation and Resource Exploitation
51
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Posted - 2015.09.16 03:16:51 -
[1] - Quote
http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6039520#post6039520
I am going to get wormholers to post thier support of this suggestion to get it to happen.
I personally LOVE this change, and want to see it happen IMMEDIATELY :D
Lets do a reverse wh spawn range and push for something good to happen! |
Gregor Noobius
The Desolate Order Brave Collective
12
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Posted - 2015.09.16 03:24:25 -
[2] - Quote
It's a simple change that has the potential to greatly reduce the amount of tedious work we have to do. Wormholes are very empty |
Kalel Nimrott
The Dingus Coalition
1205
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Posted - 2015.09.16 05:00:41 -
[3] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6039826#post6039826
Kalel Nimrott wrote:What in the f@ck are you doing in wspace if you do not enjoy scan in it?
Bob Artis, you will be missed.
O7
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Chesterfield Fancypantz
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve WormHole Occupation and Resource Exploitation
51
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Posted - 2015.09.16 05:01:42 -
[4] - Quote
Kalel Nimrott wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6039826#post6039826 Kalel Nimrott wrote:What in the f@ck are you doing in wspace if you do not enjoy scan in it?
Its not about enjoying scanning, its about the tediousness of having to scan dozens and dozens of sigs just to simply get some sort of layout of your chain.
Chain scanning should be relatively painless. |
Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4658
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Posted - 2015.09.16 08:35:03 -
[5] - Quote
No, this idea is awful. Scanning is already WAY too easy, it's not CCP's fault if you don't know how to do it well. Most importantly, this change would do nothing at all to address the issue of wspace being empty since it is completely unrelated. If you don't like scanning, then wspace is not for you. That's the bottom line.
Comments like this: Moo Moocow wrote: The easiest way of introducing content/people into wh space would be to make scanning easier.
are just flat out wrong. Wspace activity has been at a steady decline for years now while scanning has only been made easier and easier in the same time period.
(Also, coming from a HK member makes it all the more ironic but that's neither here nor there i suppose...)
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4658
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Posted - 2015.09.16 08:42:04 -
[6] - Quote
Chesterfield Fancypantz wrote:Chain scanning should be relatively painless. it IS completely painless... it takes no time at all now and if you're finding it takes you more than 3-5min a system, regardless of sig count, then the fault lies with you, not the scanning system.
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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Eris Tsasa
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
0
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Posted - 2015.09.16 10:38:58 -
[7] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Chesterfield Fancypantz wrote:Chain scanning should be relatively painless. it IS completely painless... it takes no time at all now and if you're finding it takes you more than 3-5min a system, regardless of sig count, then the fault lies with you, not the scanning system.
Hey now, those shattereds with 60+ sigs take a bit longer than 3-5 minutes ya know |
GizzyBoy
Aperture Harmonics K162
188
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Posted - 2015.09.16 11:15:04 -
[8] - Quote
Heres an observation from some one whom scans,
Having spent 3 years+ in wspace as a person whom enjoys scanning, it has been my observation that the people who scanned when scanning was harder (ore sites where scan down) no pre formated probe layouts like scanning and enjoy it for its own sake, its also what makes the exploration side of worm holes enjoyable.
After things where made easier with pre formatted layouts, ore sites being moved to anomalies it was with no great surprise that the people who scanned prior to the changes, where the same who scanned after the changes.
numerous attempts at enticing people to scan where made, in NOHO billions where given out by one corp to the person who scanned the most in there corp. shock horror it was nearly always the same person month after month!
Some of the negative effects will be people will flow through wormholes potentially to fast, due to a lack of local the only thing you have to warn you of some one else being in the same system as you is probes on dscan.
Some form of delay is needed to keep probes in space long enough for some one to work out that a) Theres hostile probes about b) What wh or area they are potentially scanning.
TLDR.
If people dont scan now, they still won't scan after the suggested changes.
Some people call it "Gated Content" Im perfectly fine with that. |
Jez Amatin
Limited Power Inc It Must Be Jelly Cause Jam Don't Shake
80
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Posted - 2015.09.16 12:36:50 -
[9] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Chesterfield Fancypantz wrote:Chain scanning should be relatively painless. it IS completely painless... it takes no time at all now and if you're finding it takes you more than 3-5min a system, regardless of sig count, then the fault lies with you, not the scanning system.
it is entirely dependent on how many sigs there are and to a lesser extent how large the system is. and as previously stated, scanning a shattered system (whilst less often than conventional systems) takes substantially longer - largely due to the stack of gas sites that remain.
I agree there is a fine line between dumbing things down too much and making things enjoyable as a game. However, it does take substantial time to scan and the burden tends to fall on a few rather than the wider corp (at least that is what i have observed).
I'm not so sure about claims to say it will make wspace more populated, but it should make it easier to find content / deal with logistics - i see that as a positive. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1430
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Posted - 2015.09.16 13:24:20 -
[10] - Quote
my mapping tool tells me I'm scanning over 20 sigs/hour
this is including afk time, non-scanning time etc (basically im logged into the scanning tool while im online)
I'm not sure if that's enough ease of access in terms of scanning but I feel that's fine at 3 minutes per sig. |
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Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4664
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Posted - 2015.09.16 14:10:44 -
[11] - Quote
Jez Amatin wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Chesterfield Fancypantz wrote:Chain scanning should be relatively painless. it IS completely painless... it takes no time at all now and if you're finding it takes you more than 3-5min a system, regardless of sig count, then the fault lies with you, not the scanning system. it is entirely dependent on how many sigs there are and to a lesser extent how large the system is. im telling you, it's NOT dependent on how many sigs there are, almost at all. after maybe 10 sigs, the scanning time doesnt go up much since the extra sigs tend to get filtered out in bulk. the system size can have some noticeable impact if the planets are wide apart and there are also a lot of sigs but it's still not that significant.
this is a good example of what I mean when I say people don't know how to scan.
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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Andrew Jester
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
1416
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Posted - 2015.09.16 14:15:51 -
[12] - Quote
I really don't understand how people think scanning is hard... Either they're just forever bad, or they don't try to get better. Even with **** skills on my links char I can clear a hole out decently quickly. And by **** skills I mean like Astro 3.
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1430
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Posted - 2015.09.16 14:25:14 -
[13] - Quote
The only time when scanning takes time is if you have a LOT of hard to scan sigs in a system, aka high end gas, outgoing wormholes and relic/datas.
I've not come across many wormholes like this but even still it usually doesn't take me more than 40seconds/sig.
I've scanned a system with 57 sigs before in under 20 minutes. How? 27 of them were **** gas sites that were identified at one pass at 8au |
Andrew Jester
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
1416
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Posted - 2015.09.16 14:27:05 -
[14] - Quote
Depending what you're looking for, you don't even need to fully scan down the hard ones. If you're just looking to get deep in the chain you can ignore once you realise they're not WHs.
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
278
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Posted - 2015.09.16 14:51:09 -
[15] - Quote
Scanning is too easy already.
They should go back to the pre-Odyssey days where you couldn't know if there was a sig there until you hit it with a probe. That would actually bring back some of the "unknown" and strategy of WH space.
These people who want it to be easier are just filthy casuals who continue to want to turn WH space into null.
Like Gizzy said, no matter how easy you make it to scan, the people who like to do it will, and those who don't will whine and POS spin. Such is the way of the wormhole.
I generally tell those people "If you don't enjoy scanning, you don't belong in a wormhole". I stand by that.
Jack is right, if you aren't garbage then the shattered holes don't take a significantly larger amount of time. Scanning sigs to 25% takes 1-2 scans per sig at worst (usually you can get like 4-5 gas sites to 25% at a time at around 2 AU).
Whiners gonna whine. IDGAF
tl;dr - scanning is too easy already, git good.
Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.
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Andrew Jester
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
1416
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Posted - 2015.09.16 15:10:15 -
[16] - Quote
if it becomes any easier you might as well just put them on the overview like gates
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
63
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Posted - 2015.09.16 15:17:46 -
[17] - Quote
Jez Amatin wrote: it is entirely dependent on how many sigs there are and to a lesser extent how large the system is. and as previously stated, scanning a shattered system (whilst less often than conventional systems) takes substantially longer - largely due to the stack of gas sites that remain.
The easier fix is to remove most of the gas sites from the shattered wormholes - as hardly anyone does them anyway. |
Michael1995
Lazerhawks
205
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Posted - 2015.09.16 15:31:10 -
[18] - Quote
Maybe they should bring back the scanning system from pre-apocrypha!! That'll sure add lots of pointless tedium!!
Selling WH CFC Standings
10b/month for +10 with:
Lazerhawks,
Hard Knocks Citizens,
E X P L O S I O N,
Sleeper Social Club,
Isogen 5,
Sky Fighters.
Join up for swag drake ganks with guardian fleets and chain rolling C1s for more dank drake ganks!
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Andrew Jester
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
1416
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Posted - 2015.09.16 15:44:28 -
[19] - Quote
Michael1995 wrote:Maybe they should bring back the scanning system from pre-apocrypha!! That'll sure add lots of pointless tedium!! no they should just make all sites appear prescanned on the probe scanner because that will get rid of all tedium!
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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GizzyBoy
Aperture Harmonics K162
189
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Posted - 2015.09.16 16:33:59 -
[20] - Quote
Andrew Jester wrote:if it becomes any easier you might as well just put them on the overview like gates
not naming names, but some people asked for this at wh round table at ffest.. |
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Andrew Jester
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
1416
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Posted - 2015.09.16 17:10:50 -
[21] - Quote
not surprised in the slightest
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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Aladar Dangerface
13. Enigma Project
241
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Posted - 2015.09.16 18:39:13 -
[22] - Quote
GizzyBoy wrote:Andrew Jester wrote:if it becomes any easier you might as well just put them on the overview like gates not naming names, but some people asked for this at wh round table at ffest.. While I actually like the idea of taking the monotony out of scanning and making it less of a chore.
I will gladly punch anyone in the face that thinks putting whs on overview is a good idea.
I don't need twitter.
I'm already following you.
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muhadin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
240
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Posted - 2015.09.16 20:33:53 -
[23] - Quote
Hey guys, I personally have enjoy scanning, and i have 4 virtue probers. I still probe all the time without them. However i see that so many other players are put off from wormholes just because of the single fact that scanning is tedious to MOST people. Why make scanning tedious when living in wspace is difficult as a whole? You have to do logistics you have to setup manage and defend your pos. You have to worry about who you trust to avoid getting your stuff stolen.
Just because you personally enjoy scanning doesn't mean you won't enjoy it after a change like this, you will be even better at finding the great chains for your wh or kspace corp. Also just because you enjoy scanning, doesnt mean it should remain tedious for those that do not enjoy scanning.
"Love the Life you Live, Live the Life you Love"
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Andrew Jester
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
1417
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Posted - 2015.09.16 21:02:08 -
[24] - Quote
Just because scanning is easier doesn't mean people are going to live there. If they're put off of living in WHs just because scanning is hard, then they'll be even more put off by managing logistics and keeping towers fueled.
As I said before, if you want to get rid of tedium, make them warpable. Eliminates all tedium from living in a WH!
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
280
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Posted - 2015.09.16 21:05:16 -
[25] - Quote
Muha, the point of your original post as I see it is:
Quote:PLEASE just consider making a way to distinguish wormholes from gas/relic/data sites.
I know they got rid of the deep space probes, but I seem to remember hearing that you could still do that trick with a single probe.
Can anyone confirm?
Edit: I found this thread with google, looks like it may be primarily for the system statics.
Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.
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Tug Speedman
Big Beaver Corp
6
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Posted - 2015.09.16 22:22:10 -
[26] - Quote
Too easy to scan quick chain at kspace. Even more easy scan from C4 or less wermhole.
If you want big chain you need big effort!! To me scan take just enough effort but I start scan only this year.
No change needed, only change be no more renter in wermhole space. Renter only scan static and make logistic move through direct low sec.
To summary; scanning is ok but renter must go. |
Kalel Nimrott
The Dingus Coalition
1208
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Posted - 2015.09.17 00:17:10 -
[27] - Quote
Tug Speedman wrote:Too easy to scan quick chain at kspace. Even more easy scan from C4 or less wermhole.
If you want big chain you need big effort!! To me scan take just enough effort but I start scan only this year.
No change needed, only change be no more renter in wermhole space. Renter only scan static and make logistic move through direct low sec.
To summary; scanning is ok but renter must go.
I can read you with a thick russian accent.
Bob Artis, you will be missed.
O7
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Jez Amatin
Limited Power Inc It Must Be Jelly Cause Jam Don't Shake
81
|
Posted - 2015.09.19 11:18:18 -
[28] - Quote
in the spirit of adding some actual data to this thread:
I scanned a small C2 with 18 sigs today and it took about 12 minutes. there were 4 WH (other than the in WH, 2x C1, 1x C2, 1x HS), and the rest was predominantly a lot of data sites...
- the ship used was anathema with a full t2 scanning fit (including one t2 scan rig), using sister core probes. - the pilot is a maxed covops pilot 5, with all scan skills to 5. - I was using the standard pinpoint probe config for most of it, and focusing on celestials... (i've tried other probe layouts with no real improvement on the standard probe layouts)
I could have gained a bit of time by being a bit more manic, and spending a bit more on faction probe launcher and probes may help a bit - but i don't see how i could have got it down to half that time. |
Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4673
|
Posted - 2015.09.19 11:51:39 -
[29] - Quote
Jez Amatin wrote:in the spirit of adding some actual data to this thread:
I scanned a small C2 with 18 sigs today and it took about 12 minutes. there were 4 WH (other than the in WH, 2x C1, 1x C2, 1x HS), and the rest was predominantly a lot of data sites...
- the ship used was anathema with a full t2 scanning fit (including one t2 scan rig), using sister core probes. - the pilot is a maxed covops pilot 5, with all scan skills to 5. - I was using the standard pinpoint probe config for most of it, and focusing on celestials... (i've tried other probe layouts with no real improvement on the standard probe layouts)
I could have gained a bit of time by being a bit more manic, and spending a bit more on faction probe launcher and probes may help a bit - but i don't see how i could have got it down to half that time. If you want some numbers, just did a few systems for the hell of it: 14 sigs: 3min 14 sigs: 3min 19 sigs: 3min 4 sigs: ~30sec
No, I did not use the default probe layouts.
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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Jez Amatin
Limited Power Inc It Must Be Jelly Cause Jam Don't Shake
81
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Posted - 2015.09.19 12:28:36 -
[30] - Quote
interesting, so aside from probe layout what ship and probes are you using? i assume this could be improved with a t3, but honestly haven't looked into it.
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