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thebarry
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
12
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Posted - 2015.09.16 09:09:34 -
[1] - Quote
We currently have an unfortunate feedback loop with players hoarding and manipulating the price of plex, which imo decreases subscriptions and overall game content. The solution I submit is to bind plex to the first account that purchases it on the in-game market. This would allow for players to convert real money to ISK while eliminating the manipulation and the hoarding. The plex could still be donated to other players or consumed normally, but trading/hauling etc would have to be disallowed in order for this idea to work.
Thanks for reading, and be sure to put a ship in harm's way today :) |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
454
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Posted - 2015.09.16 09:25:13 -
[2] - Quote
thebarry wrote:We currently have an unfortunate feedback loop with players hoarding and manipulating the price of plex.
That is the very essence of EVE. It is not CCP's fault that we're increasing the prices on PLEX so dramatically.
Also just because PLEX is around the 990 million isk range, doesn't mean suscription numbers are declining.
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3816
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Posted - 2015.09.16 09:28:54 -
[3] - Quote
But this will limit supply, and thus push prices further and further up... |
thebarry
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
12
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Posted - 2015.09.16 09:33:23 -
[4] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:But this will limit supply, and thus push prices further and further up...
No, it limits demand. |
Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
648
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Posted - 2015.09.16 09:40:15 -
[5] - Quote
see, this here was your first mistake.
Do you have a single piece of evidence to back this up?
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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thebarry
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
12
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Posted - 2015.09.16 09:50:33 -
[6] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:see, this here was your first mistake. Do you have a single piece of evidence to back this up?
Anecdotally, I have a friend who was very smug about making 40bn off of plex while not playing the game. He logged in to play dress-up with his avatar for 20 minutes or so, and then went back to skill training online. I like my friend, but I wouldn't describe him as someone who creates a lot of content for the game.
Can we agree that lowering the price of plex would make things easier on those who are driving content? |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3816
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Posted - 2015.09.16 09:53:03 -
[7] - Quote
thebarry wrote:Danika Princip wrote:But this will limit supply, and thus push prices further and further up... No, it limits demand.
How?
People still need PLEX for all the usual reasons, and preventing the guys who have piles of them from actually servicing that demand is not going to do nice things to the prices.
At all. |
thebarry
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
12
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Posted - 2015.09.16 10:48:55 -
[8] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:thebarry wrote:Danika Princip wrote:But this will limit supply, and thus push prices further and further up... No, it limits demand. How? People still need PLEX for all the usual reasons, and preventing the guys who have piles of them from actually servicing that demand is not going to do nice things to the prices. At all.
The guys who have piles of them are the demand, they invest and hold because it's a hedge against inflation, and this is a feedback loop where the price rises as more and more people hoard them, which results in yet more hoarders. I am saying that this is unhealthy for the game since it artificially inflates the cost of game time(in ISK) which in turn makes things harder on the players who are driving content. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2204
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Posted - 2015.09.16 13:06:47 -
[9] - Quote
thebarry wrote:Danika Princip wrote:thebarry wrote:Danika Princip wrote:But this will limit supply, and thus push prices further and further up... No, it limits demand. How? People still need PLEX for all the usual reasons, and preventing the guys who have piles of them from actually servicing that demand is not going to do nice things to the prices. At all. The guys who have piles of them are the demand, they invest and hold because it's a hedge against inflation, and this is a feedback loop where the price rises as more and more people hoard them, which results in yet more hoarders. I am saying that this is unhealthy for the game since it artificially inflates the cost of game time(in ISK) which in turn makes things harder on the players who are driving content.
Your friend who made 40 bill off of PLEX sure as hell didn't service the demand right... |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2716
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Posted - 2015.09.16 13:08:58 -
[10] - Quote
thebarry wrote:
Can we agree that lowering the price of plex would make things easier on those who are driving content?
How? by making them pay more for plex they have to rat more and mine more.
this is more content.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
518
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Posted - 2015.09.16 13:47:09 -
[11] - Quote
-1 - plex prices are a player issue and we as players are the ones that can and should change it.
Personally I rather enjoy the plex prices I get a lot more in game for my $15.00 than I ever have in the past and that is really nice since my taste in ships has gotten rather expensive in the last few years.
If you are really all that concerned about hoarding and manipulation then you better spread your nets significantly wider.
Nul sec groups hoard and control access to many of the materials needed to produce T2 and T3 ships. By hoarding and controlling these they are manipulating the market and driving prices higher. Same can be said for the WH groups and the sleeper materials that are crucial to some ship productions so we need to get rid of that as well. Why are you only concerned with plex prices?
There is always plex on the market to buy so there is not a supply problem.
Setting all of that aside your idea ignores a fundamental fact of a free market. Seller will raise prices as high as the markets will bear, so it is those who are buying plex who are driving the costs ever higher. So this brings the EvE market tip of the day, if you want lower plex prices then you need to get as many people as possible to stop buying plex and the prices will drop. |
unidenify
Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium
133
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Posted - 2015.09.16 14:02:13 -
[12] - Quote
Guys guys, he just copy idea from World of Warcraft.
That is essence what Blizzard do with their counterpart of PLEX |
Barubary Evans
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
2
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Posted - 2015.09.16 14:15:58 -
[13] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote: Also just because PLEX is around the 990 million isk range, doesn't mean suscription numbers are declining.
For what it's worth, PLEX are 1.25 bil. They haven't been 990 mil in ~4-5 months. |
Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
119
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Posted - 2015.09.16 15:44:43 -
[14] - Quote
thebarry wrote:We currently have an unfortunate feedback loop with players hoarding and manipulating the price of plex, which imo decreases subscriptions and overall game content. The solution I submit is to bind plex to the first account that purchases it on the in-game market. This would allow for players to convert real money to ISK while eliminating the manipulation and the hoarding. The plex could still be donated to other players or consumed normally, but trading/hauling etc would have to be disallowed in order for this idea to work.
Thanks for reading, and be sure to put a ship in harm's way today :)
Hell no, its a item to traide you wanna play eve to pay for eve just play longer, or pay for your account. The ability to traide nearly everything in eve is kind of part of the sandbox.
-1 |
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
96
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Posted - 2015.09.16 15:54:16 -
[15] - Quote
thebarry wrote:Anecdotally, I have a friend who was very smug about making 40bn off of plex while not playing the game. Your friend is exactly why we let PLEX be bought and sold amongst players.
If you want to see what happens to raw market manipulation, you can still see last November's selloff in the market history. Your friend will probably be less smug when he watches 20% of his PLEX hoard's value vanish in the space of 72 hours.
Your accusations of manipulation are missing the actual piece of information that lets us know whether or not there is an imbalance in PLEX consumption.
In general, we need to know: A) How many PLEX are being created: bought for $, through subscription links and hacked into existence by rogue CCP employees. B) How many PLEX are being destroyed: converted to game time, Aurum, multiple training and PLEX tanking.
From that we can say: If A > B then prices go down. If A = B then prices stay the same. If A < B then prices go up.
If those rules aren't being followed, then it's market manipulation and somebody's in for a bad day when the market corrects. |
Mag's
the united
20196
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Posted - 2015.09.16 18:36:22 -
[16] - Quote
The Plex is way too cheap, I'm hoping it hits a reasonable 2 billion soon.
Even if it hot 8 billion, it would still be no.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
2525
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Posted - 2015.09.16 18:53:48 -
[17] - Quote
You realize that this would utterly destroy the PLEX market and make it all but impossible for the players who keep their subscriptions going by paying ISK for PLEX to keep playing, right?
Not just no, but hell no. Market manipulation is part of the game.
-1
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
A brief history of C&P Thunderdome
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2015.09.16 21:23:45 -
[18] - Quote
With this change, the hoarders would be able to sell their plex. Once, because the plex wouldn't be bound until after this change happened and it got sold again.
There are other ways to bet against inflation, which don't involve Plex. We'll always need the stuff we actually use to build things and blow them up-and if it's sitting in an NPC station, nobody's going to take it away unless the usual foolishness happens.
A signature :o
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Zimmer Jones
Aliastra Gallente Federation
291
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Posted - 2015.09.16 21:49:49 -
[19] - Quote
Not supported. I buy plex in game on occasion when I don't feel like going through alt reactivation by cc, however I use a purchasing alt account because I'm paranoid, then trade them in game to sit in inventory until needed. Sometimes hrs for plex gets you in the game and fleeted up a lot faster than entering info and going through the buggy cc verification.
I don't want that particular purchase in my main account history, for my own reasons.
You are content to be content. This is not a jedi mind trick, you're just the game
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Vic Jefferson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
601
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Posted - 2015.09.16 21:59:18 -
[20] - Quote
thebarry wrote:We currently have an unfortunate feedback loop with players hoarding and manipulating the price of plex, which imo decreases subscriptions and overall game content.
A)Cannot by definition directly decrease subscriptions. If you were paying by subscription, you wouldn't need PLEX.
B)If you understand the hoarders' secrets, why aren't you profiteering of this 'gold rush' of sorts? Extremely valuable PLEX clouds have been discovered in the....
C)More people grinding out the ISK means more people to hunt, means more content seeds.
D)Actually subscribing to the game is extremely cheap.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3820
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Posted - 2015.09.16 22:45:53 -
[21] - Quote
thebarry wrote:[ The guys who have piles of them are the demand, they invest and hold because it's a hedge against inflation, and this is a feedback loop where the price rises as more and more people hoard them, which results in yet more hoarders. I am saying that this is unhealthy for the game since it artificially inflates the cost of game time(in ISK) which in turn makes things harder on the players who are driving content.
So people who PLEX their accounts should suffer because you don't like the idea of a layer driven market. Is that about right?
I PLEX two or three accounts, depending on what's going on. Right now I have one on the go because 1.25b is too much for the effort I'm willing to put in currently. Your idea would reduce the number of people selling PLEX, which would reduce the number available, which would increase the prices, which would be the end of PLEXing accounts through casual means. (PI funds mine, even with the high prices. I don't much want to have to carrier rat to fund it instead.)
I'd like you to explain why that's good for the game. |
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
685
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Posted - 2015.09.17 00:30:04 -
[22] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:thebarry wrote:We currently have an unfortunate feedback loop with players hoarding and manipulating the price of plex. That is the very essence of EVE. It is not CCP's fault that we're increasing the prices on PLEX so dramatically. Also just because PLEX is around the 990 million isk range, doesn't mean suscription numbers are declining.
My own impression of the numbers is that Plex prices are increasing while average online characters are decreasing. But one thing does not necessarily cause the other.
Plex Prices are 1.1+ billion at the point of writing this. But as long as it hurts others more than me, I could care less.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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thebarry
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
12
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Posted - 2015.09.17 06:44:49 -
[23] - Quote
Frostys and Aerasia, I'm sure he still has them, why sell them?
Daichi I hope you're joking but just in case you're not, grinding up isk to plex an account is not a fun chore for content creators.
Bronson, read what Shalianna wrote.
Vic, (A) A pile of plex represents accounts that could be subbed and content that could be created imo. (B) I have profited from it, but I have also unsubbed several accounts because of price. (C) If it was fun we wouldn't call it a grind, so no, this results in unsubbed accounts and less isk for blowing up spaceships. (D) Not if you are the typical content creator who is spending a lot of time in EVE and very little time making rl money. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2730
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Posted - 2015.09.17 14:27:04 -
[24] - Quote
A pile of plex also represents a bunch of isk for someone. Isk they can use to create content. Why is your content more important than theirs? And why shouldn't they try to maximise their isk gains so they can maximise the content they create?
Grinding longer is content itself and content for the people around the grinders.
I know its not a fun chore. So why do you choose to do it? Because you value the time it takes to grind isk less than the money it costs to sub for a month. Clearly plex prices arent high enough yet.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Jak'at
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
56
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Posted - 2015.09.17 14:51:54 -
[25] - Quote
Just because you can't figure out how everyone else is making money in EvE doesn't mean inflation should stop and that CCP should offer fixed rate currency on game time.
The price of Plex, over time, is going up. Period. (It's in CCP's best interest) Try investing in some. |
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
96
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Posted - 2015.09.17 17:10:14 -
[26] - Quote
thebarry wrote:I'm sure he still has them, why sell them? So, anecdotally, you have a friend who made 0.00 ISK.
Understood.
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Delarian Rox
Wicked Privateers Smile 'n' Wave
22
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Posted - 2015.09.17 17:30:56 -
[27] - Quote
It's a good idea but you know... You can't make this work just because of Aurum.
Yes, i think, PLEX hyperinflation killing this game by reducing the number of active accounts, and for some extent - active players. But you can't solve economy problems with boulder and stick.
I also think that CCP aware of this problem if it exists but they don't wanna solve it for some reason. We have more aurum items in this patch so they think that current price is ok. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
1025
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Posted - 2015.09.17 19:59:13 -
[28] - Quote
PLEX is the EvE equivalent of gold. Get with the times.
Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.
I invented Tiericide
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thebarry
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
12
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Posted - 2015.09.17 23:51:32 -
[29] - Quote
Jak'at wrote:Just because you can't figure out how everyone else is making money in EvE doesn't mean inflation should stop and that CCP should offer fixed rate currency on game time.
I know how to make isk, and I didn't suggest a fixed exchange rate of isk for game time, or argue for an end to inflation even though it does cause a lot of problems.
Quote: (It's in CCP's best interest)
I can see no evidence of that when looking at the decline in active players. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2733
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Posted - 2015.09.18 00:21:33 -
[30] - Quote
Those active players are not giving ccp money. They lose nothing if those players leave. They get more money if these players switch from plexing to paying for their sub.
Instead, the more isk plex is worth, the more ppl who are inclined to buy plex with rl money and cash in the isk. This means ccp get more money.
Tl:Dr The higher the plex price the more money ccp make.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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