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Davinthan
Hazard Factory Viral Society
5
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Posted - 2015.09.16 20:07:29 -
[1] - Quote
Hi all, I think this is my first topic I have ever posted.
So I am looking for an improved strategy for Null and Lowsec mining. My thought was that I would start asking ccp about providing us some special defence or offensive functions to better protect our mining fleets.
I have experimented with Warp bubble surrounding the main paths to the mining fleet location. My thought was could we potentially request a mobile defense battery that we could post round our fleets to protect us from smaller gangs and single hunters?
What are your thoughts or what other ideas do you have?
Davinthan, Hazard Factory Indy Director and Master Mining Slave |
Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining Void..
34
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Posted - 2015.09.16 22:27:26 -
[2] - Quote
I tend to doubt that will happen to be honest.
You could defend yourselves fairly well by having a group in skiffs. They have rather impressive tanks plus get a nice drone bonus. A few of them can drive off most non-determined groups. |
Taran McJingleberi
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2015.09.16 23:57:35 -
[3] - Quote
Why stop with defense batteries? How about a properly stocked bar and a massage while we are at it? |
GODS H4ND
Evedustry Inc. SONS of BANE
7
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Posted - 2015.09.17 12:12:43 -
[4] - Quote
Taran McJingleberi wrote:Why stop with defense batteries? How about a properly stocked bar and a massage while we are at it?
you offering? ;) |
PecX Ocedei
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.09.18 18:53:49 -
[5] - Quote
GODS H4ND wrote:Taran McJingleberi wrote:Why stop with defense batteries? How about a properly stocked bar and a massage while we are at it? you offering? ;)
If he isn't then I am! Seriously though, I agree with Sheeth, the only defense that a fleet needs is a ton of Skiffs. Those things are nasty. I have seen many times a lone hunter going through null, and attacking a skiff only for him to wind up on our KB because of Warrior II. If you had a battery that you could deploy to scare away fleets, all that would do is encourage AFK mining, which I am very much so against. |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
403
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Posted - 2015.09.18 20:41:07 -
[6] - Quote
You can certainly try (probably in the suggestions & features subforum), but I think there will be a very vocal group of players opposed to the idea. |
Rengor Elongur
30plus Fidelas Constans
11
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Posted - 2015.09.21 09:10:57 -
[7] - Quote
I read your post and realized you did say "Fleet"
This does imply the presence of more than one ship. I just checked and noticed that eve has a few ships that are capable of mounting turrents or missile launchers. If i understood correctly these ships can be used to shoot folks, which you could utilize for protection.
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Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining Void..
34
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Posted - 2015.09.21 22:45:59 -
[8] - Quote
Rengor Elongur wrote:I read your post and realized you did say "Fleet"
This does imply the presence of more than one ship. I just checked and noticed that eve has a few ships that are capable of mounting turrents or missile launchers. If i understood correctly these ships can be used to shoot folks, which you could utilize for protection.
You volunteering to go defend miners? Didn't think so The "have friends" argument isn't really realistic when it comes to guarding indy people. It's just too damn boring |
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising The Bastion
1449
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Posted - 2015.09.22 00:50:03 -
[9] - Quote
I mine in nullsec, and occasionally in hisec. I do not mine in lowsec. I do not AFK-mine, except for very short intervals when I know IGÇÖll be back within a minute or so.
IMHO the best defence for nullsec miners is their ability to warp away. Couple that with a competent early warning system, such as eyes in neighbouring system(s) - and a little bit of general eve-savvy, care, and patience - and you have the necessary elements of entirely safe nullsec mining. Of course, if your mining is in a system within your particular blue-donut and at the end of a long pipeline you also have the benefits of additional intel eyes and the attractive possibility that any potential hostiles will be killed before they get to you. Add-in system cyno-jamming and youGÇÖve got another small layer of (partial) protection.
Skiffs are great for nullsec mining, despite the fact that they do not return as much ore-per-picosecond as other exhumers. They tank-up very nicely which allows them to survive BS-rat spawns easily, and also allows them to shrug off solo hostiles or (in numbers) some small gangs. Skiffs also align-warp faster than other exhumers. Not only that but Skiffs have a decent drone bay which makes for many killmails where wannabe miner-killers failed to appreciate the offensive capabilities of this humble exhumer. I eschew mining drones and carry a flight of ECs, a flight of warrior IIs, and a flight of Hammerheads IIs.
The eve-savvy, care, and patience comes into play when potential attackers play their little games. Just because theyGÇÖve disappeared from local it does not mean youGÇÖre safe yet. That unaccounted-for Cynabal on your DSCAN is their ship still in space after theyGÇÖve pulled a logoffski. They know where you were mining (e.g. from the cans and wrecks) and theyGÇÖre giving you time to return. Alternatively they may have bookmarked your jet-cans and be sitting at zero on a neighbouring gate, again giving you time to return to your mining before they strike. Know their tricks and how to counter them.
ItGÇÖs best to not warp direct to a station / outpost GǪ unless youGÇÖre confident of entering warp before any hostiles enter your system. Many miners die in hostile dictor bubbles near their GÇÿsafeGÇÖ station or outpost. A roaming hostile fleet will often send their dictor to bubble the station as the rest of the fleet members GÇÿshotgunGÇÖ to belts and sigs. If you warp to a perch near a friendly POS, and then to the POS itself, then youGÇÖre much less likely to find yourself tackled and killed.
I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder.
Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread
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elise densi
Rogue Clones Yulai Federation
52
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Posted - 2015.09.26 06:57:04 -
[10] - Quote
as above also having decent intel and ppl on coms is a great thing and being in a fleet together power in numbers
friends who live with me in null killed alot of hotdroppers and roaming stealthbombers with skiffs
well fitted skiff has 80k ehp and can do up to 200-500 dps depending on lowslot and drones
and a combat booster offgrid is nice to |
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Davinthan
Hazard Factory Viral Society
5
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Posted - 2015.09.26 21:44:54 -
[11] - Quote
Well I see I have some well thought out responses. Some have difficulty with organized thought.
So here's the deal, I have use skiffs which work well but, if you have a gang jump you you're screwed. I speak from experience. AFK mining doesn't work well and anyone that has mined knows this is mind numbing work. I am not suggesting we make this possible.
I have currently had WH gangs jump in with four to five players at once. These guys are experienced miner killers and not much will help!
SPecial fleets with many miners can survive longer with help coming and using a drone ball is most effective.
So none of you have offer any new tactics.
I was thinking of maybe a Smart bomb on a skiff? Or maybe use a retriever with only one laser and a smart bomb in the other slot.
Has anyone tried these ideas?
I do pay players to guard also, which was stated as mind numbing work too. |
Davinthan
Hazard Factory Viral Society
5
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 21:45:46 -
[12] - Quote
elise densi wrote:as above also having decent intel and ppl on coms is a great thing and being in a fleet together power in numbers
friends who live with me in null killed alot of hotdroppers and roaming stealthbombers with skiffs
well fitted skiff has 80k ehp and can do up to 200-500 dps depending on lowslot and drones
and a combat booster offgrid is nice to
Thanks for you response. |
Davinthan
Hazard Factory Viral Society
5
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 21:48:01 -
[13] - Quote
Substantia Nigra wrote:I mine in nullsec, and occasionally in hisec. I do not mine in lowsec. I do not AFK-mine, except for very short intervals when I know IGÇÖll be back within a minute or so.
IMHO the best defence for nullsec miners is their ability to warp away. Couple that with a competent early warning system, such as eyes in neighbouring system(s) - and a little bit of general eve-savvy, care, and patience - and you have the necessary elements of entirely safe nullsec mining. Of course, if your mining is in a system within your particular blue-donut and at the end of a long pipeline you also have the benefits of additional intel eyes and the attractive possibility that any potential hostiles will be killed before they get to you. Add-in system cyno-jamming and youGÇÖve got another small layer of (partial) protection.
Skiffs are great for nullsec mining, despite the fact that they do not return as much ore-per-picosecond as other exhumers. They tank-up very nicely which allows them to survive BS-rat spawns easily, and also allows them to shrug off solo hostiles or (in numbers) some small gangs. Skiffs also align-warp faster than other exhumers. Not only that but Skiffs have a decent drone bay which makes for many killmails where wannabe miner-killers failed to appreciate the offensive capabilities of this humble exhumer. I eschew mining drones and carry a flight of ECs, a flight of warrior IIs, and a flight of Hammerheads IIs.
The eve-savvy, care, and patience comes into play when potential attackers play their little games. Just because theyGÇÖve disappeared from local it does not mean youGÇÖre safe yet. That unaccounted-for Cynabal on your DSCAN is their ship still in space after theyGÇÖve pulled a logoffski. They know where you were mining (e.g. from the cans and wrecks) and theyGÇÖre giving you time to return. Alternatively they may have bookmarked your jet-cans and be sitting at zero on a neighbouring gate, again giving you time to return to your mining before they strike. Know their tricks and how to counter them.
ItGÇÖs best to not warp direct to a station / outpost GǪ unless youGÇÖre confident of entering warp before any hostiles enter your system. Many miners die in hostile dictor bubbles near their GÇÿsafeGÇÖ station or outpost. A roaming hostile fleet will often send their dictor to bubble the station as the rest of the fleet members GÇÿshotgunGÇÖ to belts and sigs. If you warp to a perch near a friendly POS, and then to the POS itself, then youGÇÖre much less likely to find yourself tackled and killed.
Nice response but, you offer little new tactics. How about something new? |
Davinthan
Hazard Factory Viral Society
5
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Posted - 2015.09.26 21:52:08 -
[14] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:You can certainly try (probably in the suggestions & features subforum), but I think there will be a very vocal group of players opposed to the idea.
Of course players who kill miners would respond to any suggestion of increasing miner defence capacity.
Use a batteries that have to be targeted and actively managed would remove the AFK thoughts.
I am really trying to get others to think out of the box. |
Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining Void..
37
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Posted - 2015.09.27 02:09:28 -
[15] - Quote
There is a difference between thinking outside the box and damaging the game. What you are talking about is more or less POS guns that can be deployed anywhere. This is not good. I don't kill miners, but I'd be vocally against it too.
The reason no one is "thinking outside the box" is because the tried and true methods tend to be the best balance. Throwing on smart bombs wont do any good. They'll just sit outside their range. Not to mention you'll be mining way less the whole time no one is around, which is most of the time.
The reason people keep suggesting the same old thing is because these are the best answers. Use drones, stay aligned, and be ready to run. You're meant to be vulnerable to pvp ships when you're engaged in pve activities. That's how this whole thing works. |
Whipple Shai
Shades of Chaos Gatekeepers Universe
35
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Posted - 2015.09.29 03:37:43 -
[16] - Quote
It's called "watch local and GTFO when the neutrals come knocking." That's the only defense a miner needs/has against other players. Newer isn't always better. Oh, and unless you're already moving in the direction you want to warp, being "aligned" is meaningless. |
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
187
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Posted - 2015.09.29 03:57:33 -
[17] - Quote
A drag bubble off the Warp-In point can save a lot of hassles, just make sure you can still get out to a safe POS when local spikes.
Alternatively, someone sitting in an infipoint HIC or Lachesis/Arazu/Garmur/Orthrus/Barghest/Keres (ships with point/scram range bonuses) with 50 Skiff drones assigned to them can make a hell of a mess out of most small gangs that come looking to blap your mining fleet.
You could also fit a point to one of the Skiffs. Funniest thing I've ever seen was a Skiff chasing a 'ceptor while yelling in local "come back, I'll be your friend!"
Last corp mining op I did we had a solid PvP fleet sat at a POS ready to go. We had a couple of people poke their noses in system and they must have seen the 3x Navy Scorps, 4x Cruisers (forget what type), Kitsune and others and just went 'nope'.....
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5410
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Posted - 2015.09.29 21:19:39 -
[18] - Quote
Davinthan wrote:So I am looking for an improved strategy for Null and Lowsec mining. My thought was that I would start asking ccp about providing us some special defence or offensive functions to better protect our mining fleets. What you are looking for was what the Rorqual was supposed to be. |
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising The Bastion
1453
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Posted - 2015.09.30 01:51:20 -
[19] - Quote
Davinthan wrote:Nice response but, you offer little new tactics. How about something new?
LOL, mine *is* the improved strategy. As an evidence-based data-point, I do not lose miners. Well, I think I did lose one miner five or so years ago to a hisec suicide ganker, but I have not even had an exhumer scratched in my years of w-space and nullsec mining since.
Those that tweak and short-cut are those who lose their assets. That's fine if it's what you're after but my advice is simply that of experience.
My approach works absolutely fine but, I accept, it is dependent on some effort and savvy on behalf of the miner. Perhaps you're right, complaining to CCP and getting them to fix the *effort* and competence part might just be a way to go.
GÇ£Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.GÇ¥ Douglas Adams
I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder.
Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread
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Morgan Agrivar
Happy Endings Massage Parlor
76
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Posted - 2015.09.30 07:25:58 -
[20] - Quote
What he wants and is asking for is not in the game. So go with what is in the game and make the best of it. People have given you answers to your question, you just blow them off because you don't like their answer.
Just something about me...
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Davinthan
Hazard Factory Viral Society
5
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Posted - 2015.10.02 02:35:44 -
[21] - Quote
Morgan Agrivar wrote:What he wants and is asking for is not in the game. So go with what is in the game and make the best of it. People have given you answers to your question, you just blow them off because you don't like their answer.
So I love all this response. I just thought we could there was a few better tactics to use.
I don't discount any of you responses, well maybe the stocked bar and massage.
SO what I am hearing there is no better tactic than running when a gang shows or having hire guns covering you.
Wouldn't be grand if you could have a cyno to lite if trouble showed?
So what would you ask for if you could?
Davinthan |
Davinthan
Hazard Factory Viral Society
5
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Posted - 2015.10.13 05:45:37 -
[22] - Quote
Morgan Agrivar wrote:What he wants and is asking for is not in the game. So go with what is in the game and make the best of it. People have given you answers to your question, you just blow them off because you don't like their answer.
Mogan, don't mis-read my message that I am challenging others to what else is there?
I value every comment.
Davinthan |
ApollyN
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.10.14 11:16:45 -
[23] - Quote
This is kinda like asking how to beat a full fleet with a Rifter.
Miners have some decent defense craft for risky mining ops (Skiffs) and if its really worth it off grid links nd even escorts but ultimately, they are miners and not combat ships. If a fleet lands on your gang and you havent aligned and are in warp then you need to be able to fight fully fledged combat ships with a bunch of miners and that just wont work.
Sleipnirs are great ships and expensive to boot but they can still die, and they are top end combat (or used to be). Why should miners be able to fight off a dedicated combat gang?
Its the EVE circle of life - the minerals you mine make the ships that kill you as you mine. Or some other cheesey idea like that. |
Rosira
Warframe Industry And Salvage AL3XAND3R.
13
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:31:13 -
[24] - Quote
Mine aligned.
If it looks suspicious its better to leave and be sure than to stay and asplode. |
Civ Kado
Dutch East Querious Company Phoebe Freeport Republic
100
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Posted - 2015.10.16 20:00:18 -
[25] - Quote
Rosira wrote:Mine aligned.
If it looks suspicious its better to leave and be sure than to stay and asplode.
Have somewhere safe to go, even if its a string of bookmarks and deepsafes.
this, just mine aligned. There are plenty of strategies that you can employ to stay aligned to something. Just figure it out.
the Higgs Boson rigs will help you A LOT in that aspect btw.
Again just be aligned and not afk. I do it all the time and it's incredibly fun and a rush playing the cat and mouse game and escaping as soon as a hostile warps on grid, or baiting them and having a fleet on standby. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17164
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Posted - 2015.10.18 12:44:33 -
[26] - Quote
Civ Kado wrote:Rosira wrote:Mine aligned.
If it looks suspicious its better to leave and be sure than to stay and asplode.
Have somewhere safe to go, even if its a string of bookmarks and deepsafes. this, just mine aligned. There are plenty of strategies that you can employ to stay aligned to something. Just figure it out. the Higgs Boson rigs will help you A LOT in that aspect btw. Again just be aligned and not afk. I do it all the time and it's incredibly fun and a rush playing the cat and mouse game and escaping as soon as a hostile warps on grid, or baiting them and having a fleet on standby.
Another technique is to fit a web in the mids and have a "web buddy" - you mutually web each other, reducing top speed by 60%.
Combined with Link bonuses to mining laser range, this means that you can align at instawarp speed without changing direction for considerable periods.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Leila Meurtrier
Why Am I Not Surprised
32
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Posted - 2015.10.19 10:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
Nullsec and Lowsec mining tactics? There is already one GÇö sit in overtanked boosted procurers ready to OMGWTFBBQ anyone with drones. Problem is mentality of average miner. |
Kaivar Lancer
Placid Peace Corps
703
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Posted - 2015.11.07 18:07:47 -
[28] - Quote
Not sure what null sec mining is like, but there are a few asteroid belts that are 14.3+ AU away from the nearest celestial. If you mine in those belts, you won't pop up on d-scan (unless someone does a thorough sweep through the system and checks every belt). |
Intar Medris
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Phoenix Company Alliance
240
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Posted - 2015.11.09 13:18:48 -
[29] - Quote
Get a Skiff. It is by far a dedicated Null Sec miner. With the right the right it has an EHP that will make a T3 jealous. CCP gave it one hell of tank for a reason. The best option though is always just GTFOing as soon as a net or hostile is a jump away or in system.
I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen.
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Intar Medris
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Phoenix Company Alliance
240
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Posted - 2015.11.09 13:19:57 -
[30] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:Not sure what null sec mining is like, but there are a few asteroid belts that are 14.3+ AU away from the nearest celestial. If you mine in those belts, you won't pop up on d-scan (unless someone does a thorough sweep through the system and checks every belt).
You don't mine in belts in null. You mine in sites.
I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen.
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