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Lai Lai Shalastringe
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.09.17 06:38:09 -
[1] - Quote
A module you install in your ship that upon ship's destruction burns up like a termite charge and destroy anything that would otherwise be looted. |
Azazel The Misanthrope
Proioxis Assault Force Exodus.
60
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Posted - 2015.09.17 06:41:24 -
[2] - Quote
1. This is relevant to counter terrorism how? 2. This will not prevent you from being ganked, if people see that you have shiny modules, they will kill you for laughs first, profit second. 3. No one will equip this. |
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
283
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Posted - 2015.09.17 06:48:44 -
[3] - Quote
Lai Lai Shalastringe wrote:A module you install in your ship that upon ship's destruction burns up like a termite charge and destroy anything that would otherwise be looted. +1
If and only if the termites just eat holes in all the loot. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1611
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 06:53:38 -
[4] - Quote
Lai Lai Shalastringe wrote:A module you install in your ship that upon ship's destruction burns up like a termite charge and destroy anything that would otherwise be looted. Why would you want to put a mechanism in the game to deny loot to victor of a PvP engagement? Wouldn't that reduce the reasons for pirates and other players to attack another ship? |
Trobax
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 07:16:49 -
[5] - Quote
How about upon dieing, firing a space harpoon aka "Poon" , keeping the opponent frozen into position for 5 minutes, gettin gate gunned (sry, just read reddit forums, these ppl got some interesting and novel ideas)
GIVE US THE POON!!! |
Lai Lai Shalastringe
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.09.17 07:51:18 -
[6] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Lai Lai Shalastringe wrote:A module you install in your ship that upon ship's destruction burns up like a termite charge and destroy anything that would otherwise be looted. Why would you want to put a mechanism in the game to deny loot to victor of a PvP engagement? Wouldn't that reduce the reasons for pirates and other players to attack another ship?
There has never been one single post from CCP that says EVE is built on the principle that pirates are priviledged over any other class of pilot. There is no honor or victor in EVE, since there is no estabilished objective. There is no reason to assume that you "deserve the loot" more than I deserve the right to deny you from it the same way there is no reason for preventing you to denying me the opportunity to enjoy the game without using weapons.
If one is entitled to griefplay, everyone must be. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1611
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Posted - 2015.09.17 08:15:48 -
[7] - Quote
Lai Lai Shalastringe wrote: There has never been one single post from CCP that says EVE is built on the principle that pirates are priviledged over any other class of pilot.
You seem not to understand what type of game this is. It is a full-time, PvP sandbox game and is thus based on player conflict.
Oh and you are, of course, wrong about the pirate claim. Here are a few posts from this wonderful thread making it clear what CCP expects of the game:
CCP Falcon wrote:Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec?
CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.
If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.
Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back.
:)
CCP Falcon wrote: Being unprepared and putting all your eggs in one basket to make a nice juicy target for a suicide gank is the joke here, not highsec.
There are a multitude of ways to protect yourself from suicide gankers, people just automatically assume they're "safe" in highsec, then get annoyed when they lose a ship because of their own lack of spatial awareness.
CCP Falcon wrote:I say fair play to him if he cuts a profit from someone who's half-assed a ship fitting and AFK hauled across space with a sizeable chunk of ISK in their hold.
Honestly, doing that in EVE is like dressing up in red, diving into the ring with a bull and complaining when you spend six weeks in hospital because you got the horns.
This might be internet spaceships, but it's not rocket science to protect yourself and fly with a little common sense.
You are expected to protect yourself from pirates in this game. Why should CCP make a change to the game that would make the pirate profession impossible? Because you don't like losing your stuff?
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Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
650
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Posted - 2015.09.17 08:29:06 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote: Being unprepared and putting all your eggs in one basket to make a nice juicy target for a suicide gank is the joke here, not highsec.
There are a multitude of ways to protect yourself from suicide gankers, people just automatically assume they're "safe" in highsec, then get annoyed when they lose a ship because of their own lack of spatial awareness.
Cute. Does the newbie intro include a little 2 paragraph disclaimer informing people of this fact? The mental correlation between highsec and 'green zones' in other MMOs is natural. Don't insult my intelligence and pretend that EVE isn't misleadingly advertised as something its not by a lot of people, in a lot of places.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1611
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Posted - 2015.09.17 08:41:53 -
[9] - Quote
From the New Pilot FAQ:
CCP wrote: 7 PVP (PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER) The essential core concept of EVE Online is that it is full time PvP in a sandbox environment. As has been mentioned in previous sections any player can engage another player at any time in any place. In high-sec space there may be consequences if a pilot attacks another without just cause, but they can still make that attack if they wish. In low-sec and null-sec, there are no limitations to PvP at all.
CCP wrote: 7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. The safest systems are the GÇÿrookie systemsGÇÖ where new players start their journey in EVE. In high-sec systems, you are less likely to be attacked since CONCORD will exact retribution on pilots who attack another pilot without good reason. But, for example, if you are flying a ship with a high value cargo, a player may attack you to destroy the ship and steal anything from the wreck if they think that itGÇÖs worth the effort. Such attacks are known as GÇÿgankingGÇÖ and if the profit theyGÇÖll make is sufficient, pilots are willing to accept the expense of losing their ship to CONCORD and having their security status lowered for their crimes. So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time.
CCP wrote:5.2 WHO IS CONCORD AND WHAT ROLE DO THEY PERFORM? CONCORD can be considered to be the GÇÿspace policeGÇÖ who patrol the higher security areas of New Eden. They take action against those who attack others without justification and will hunt such miscreants down and destroy them without mercy. However, their role is not to prevent an attack but to punish an aggressor. Should you find yourself under fire from another pilot, CONCORD may not arrive in time to help you, so it will be down to your skill and the strength of your ship to prevail.
5.3 SOME PLAYER JUST SHOT ME; IS THAT ALLOWED? In EVE Online, any player may attack any other player if they choose to, no matter where they happen to be. This is because EVE Online is essentially a PvP (Player versus Player) game at its core. If the other pilot had no right to attack you then CONCORD will track him down and punish him for his crimes, so long as the attack took place in high security space.
I am not sure how much more clear you want CCP to be on the issue. The tutorial hammers home the point that ships are expendable and to "not fly what you can't afford to lose". The New Pilot FAQ is crystal clear what type of game this is and what highsec actually means. Eve is also not a new game, and for the last 12+ years highsec has never been a safe zone. If some players don't understand this, perhaps that is a failing of the NPE, but I really can't blame CCP for not trying.
Most of these whine threads stem from inaccurate expectations about the game play of Eve, some of which may be from true new players, but most are just from players who willfully ignore what CCP says about the game and want to believe it is another type of game altogether, one that they would prefer to play. I am sorry for these players, but they may be in for a miserable gaming experience if they refuse to accept the reality of what type of game this is.
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Lai Lai Shalastringe
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.09.17 10:30:34 -
[10] - Quote
What is written is one thing, what you understand is another.
Regardless of how you understand, if something is not literally written, it is not. No matter how much you, or any other person repeats it to the exhaustion.
Tell you to expect or be prepared for something is one thing. Tell you that thing is the goal, another entirely.
But it is really impossible to make a distinction when you know the person knows the truth but is driven by the sole idea that there is a moral high ground that makes his claims right regardless of what is written.
In the EVE official forums in english it works like this: There are 10 or 12 people who say the same about everything, and distributes their network of egg drollers to keep repeating it.
If it is something that is written X and the bandwagon is not X, no matter how much that X is written, in their minds there is truth in making an argument that X means not X.
If it is something that is not written, in their minds there is truth in making an argument the mere mention of something remotely related is the proof of X being "the underline cause".
Anyhow, there is always someone to say exactly the same thing about exactly the same false argument that what CCP says can happen in EVE is saying that MUST happen and is the entire purpose of the game.
People often even pass by the argument of the thing said itself to make an argument over the same thing everyone of the "network" repeats all the time. Which is quoted using text that doesnt really says that.
Maybe that is the answer for the post asking about CCP and reddit. |
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Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
1056
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Posted - 2015.09.17 10:47:46 -
[11] - Quote
Lai Lai Shalastringe wrote:TThere is no reason to assume that you "deserve the loot" more than I deserve the right to deny you from it... You are correct. You can deny it by shooting a wreck of whatever you want to be kept away from opponents. CCP won't do that for you just as they don't make ships pop for pirates to loot. Pirates do their thing themselves, and so will you.
Looks like this situation is about equal.
Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1611
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 11:15:03 -
[12] - Quote
Lai Lai Shalastringe wrote:Anyhow, there is always someone to say exactly the same thing about exactly the same false argument that what CCP says can happen in EVE is saying that MUST happen and is the entire purpose of the game. Almost all of the rest of your reply was incomprehensible to me. But as to this, CCP is not saying something must happen or that piracy is the entire purpose of the game. In fact, most people play the game without ever committing a piratical act. But what they are saying is that Eve is a PvP sandbox where such piracy is possible.
Your "idea" actually makes piracy impossible, or at least impossible if people fit this module. It removes conflict and a play style from the sandbox. How at all does that make Eve a better game?
This thread is also quite redundant: 1, 2, 3. I will report it as such.
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
284
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Posted - 2015.09.17 11:29:40 -
[13] - Quote
Pretty sure OP is now ranting and/or trolling after Pedro schooled them. |
Arla Sarain
653
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 11:32:29 -
[14] - Quote
You can deny loot by having friends instapop wrecks. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2206
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 12:44:09 -
[15] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:You can deny loot by having friends instapop wrecks.
Said friend should of slingshotted you in warp in the first place. The problem is they don't have friends. They are playing this MMO alone and want to be able to hard counter people playing with friends. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2624
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Posted - 2015.09.17 12:48:51 -
[16] - Quote
1.) terrorism isn't the same as piracy, and terrorists don't care for your loot 2.) as a terrorist, I would most definitely be a lot more willing to shoot at you because you have one of these fitted
Frostys Virpio wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:You can deny loot by having friends instapop wrecks. Said friend should of slingshotted you in warp in the first place. The problem is they don't have friends. They are playing this MMO alone and want to be able to hard counter people playing with friends. 3.) you might need some Ice for that burn.
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2000
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 12:55:12 -
[17] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Lai Lai Shalastringe wrote:A module you install in your ship that upon ship's destruction burns up like a termite charge and destroy anything that would otherwise be looted. Why would you want to put a mechanism in the game to deny loot to victor of a PvP engagement? Wouldn't that reduce the reasons for pirates and other players to attack another ship?
Well, I jetcan, then shoot the jet can of sleeper loot when I am ganked in a wormhole.
Why? Because **** them, is why. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2210
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 13:19:50 -
[18] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Lai Lai Shalastringe wrote:A module you install in your ship that upon ship's destruction burns up like a termite charge and destroy anything that would otherwise be looted. Why would you want to put a mechanism in the game to deny loot to victor of a PvP engagement? Wouldn't that reduce the reasons for pirates and other players to attack another ship? Well, I jetcan, then shoot the jet can of sleeper loot when I am ganked in a wormhole. Why? Because **** them, is why. I also burn out everything for the same reason.
Yeah but you put the effort into it, not some modules doing it for you. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2001
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 13:23:07 -
[19] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:afkalt wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Lai Lai Shalastringe wrote:A module you install in your ship that upon ship's destruction burns up like a termite charge and destroy anything that would otherwise be looted. Why would you want to put a mechanism in the game to deny loot to victor of a PvP engagement? Wouldn't that reduce the reasons for pirates and other players to attack another ship? Well, I jetcan, then shoot the jet can of sleeper loot when I am ganked in a wormhole. Why? Because **** them, is why. I also burn out everything for the same reason. Yeah but you put the effort into it, not some modules doing it for you.
Hey if people want to waste a slot on that crap, let them knock themselves out.
I was more incredulous at the notion that this would somehow change todays status quo. But then, I guess only WHers have experienced self destruct parties. The ultimate two fingers when the cause is lost. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
523
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 13:37:53 -
[20] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:Pretty sure OP is now ranting and/or trolling after Pedro schooled them. Black Pedro has not schooled anyone on anything, he has posted links that prove he has the right to gank, but no where in any of those links does it specifically state that he has a right to any loot that might be created as a result of that gank. The topic of the OP was to deny the loot, not to deny that right or chance to gank and as such Black Pedro's links are worthless at proving the point that he has a right to the loot.
To the OP I give you a -1 because as the others have posted there are ways to prevent the ganker from obtaining the loot once your ship has died.
Having said all of that the basic idea behind the OP's post is not without some merit. If a player only has 1 account there is no way for them to use the existing mechanics to deny the ganker the loot and to me that is something that we could and probably should look at. Even a player with a single account should have a mechanic available to them that could be sued to deny a ganker the loot, perhaps shortening the delay timer on the self destruct is what is needed so there is a realistic chance of the ship and cargo exploding before the gank is completed. Having it go off no matter what if it was activated prior to the ship being exploded is another thought. |
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1616
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 14:04:44 -
[21] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Black Pedro has not schooled anyone on anything, he has posted links that prove he has the right to gank, but no where in any of those links does it specifically state that he has a right to any loot that might be created as a result of that gank. The topic of the OP was to deny the loot, not to deny that right or chance to gank and as such Black Pedro's links are worthless at proving the point that he has a right to the loot. I was never arguing that there is some inalienable "right to loot" afforded to pirates or that there should be.
But CCP has built a PvP sandbox game in which they clearly want to have pirates operating. The quotes I linked above demonstrate that beyond a reasonable doubt. Pirates, by their very definition, attack people for their loot. If you make collecting the loot impossible, then they aren't really pirates anymore now are they? They are just vandals smashing things for no gain.
And in highsec, where there is an NPC-enforced cost to attacking other players, there has to be some loot drops or there would be no one doing it. Already, miner ganking is near at an all-time low (pg. 104) because CCP rebalanced suicide ganking so there is no expected profit in ganking a normally fit miner in highsec. If you made haulers drop no loot, well then there would be no reason to attack them now would there be?
Pirates need at least a chance at the loot or they will not operate. CCP will never do that; removing loot drops equals removing piracy as a profession in the sandbox. If you want to be a poor sport and blow up your loot, then do what afkalt does and fly something with guns and jettison your cargo and shoot it. Otherwise, just pay attention and defend yourself from the pirates as the developers of this game intend for you to do. If they catch you and explode you, wish them a 'GF' and try to take some satisfaction in the fact that they will put your stuff to good use.
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
2541
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 14:09:28 -
[22] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Lai Lai Shalastringe wrote: There has never been one single post from CCP that says EVE is built on the principle that pirates are priviledged over any other class of pilot.
You seem not to understand what type of game this is. It is a full-time, PvP sandbox game and is thus based on player conflict. Oh and you are, of course, wrong about the pirate claim. Here are a few posts from this wonderful thread making it clear what CCP expects of the game: CCP Falcon wrote:Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec?
CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.
If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.
Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back.
:)
CCP Falcon wrote: Being unprepared and putting all your eggs in one basket to make a nice juicy target for a suicide gank is the joke here, not highsec.
There are a multitude of ways to protect yourself from suicide gankers, people just automatically assume they're "safe" in highsec, then get annoyed when they lose a ship because of their own lack of spatial awareness.
CCP Falcon wrote:I say fair play to him if he cuts a profit from someone who's half-assed a ship fitting and AFK hauled across space with a sizeable chunk of ISK in their hold.
Honestly, doing that in EVE is like dressing up in red, diving into the ring with a bull and complaining when you spend six weeks in hospital because you got the horns.
This might be internet spaceships, but it's not rocket science to protect yourself and fly with a little common sense.
You are expected to protect yourself from pirates in this game. Why should CCP make a change to the game that would make the pirate profession impossible? Because you don't like losing your stuff?
This may be my single most favorite forum post of all time.
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
A brief history of C&P Thunderdome
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Jak'at
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
56
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Posted - 2015.09.17 14:16:12 -
[23] - Quote
Lai Lai Shalastringe wrote:
There has never been one single post from CCP that says EVE is built on the principle that pirates are priviledged over any other class of pilot.
EVE Online: Causality www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGplrpWvz0I
Theme? GET RICH or BE NICE.
And we all know how nice EVE is.
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Azazel The Misanthrope
Proioxis Assault Force Exodus.
60
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 20:00:55 -
[24] - Quote
If this module did exist, it would exist in the same state that Warp Core Stabilizers currently do, where you are hampering your ships ability to survive or fight by equipping this module. When you equip a Warp Core Stabilizer, suddenly it shifts the entire purpose of your ship to evasion because of either the defensive or offensive equipment slot that you are losing, not to mention the drawbacks, in its place. If you were equip this "termite" module, you would be defining the entirety of the purpose of your ship to detonate itself in case of attack.
Assuredly, a large percentage of ganks occur because of a, "That couldn't happen to me" mindset. With that being said, it is unlikely that the module would be unlikely to see usage by many ships of any kind seeing as the ship classes that would want to equip this item, very likely wouldn't.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3346
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 20:20:02 -
[25] - Quote
Lai Lai Shalastringe wrote:
Anyhow, there is always someone to say exactly the same thing about exactly the same false argument that what CCP says can happen in EVE is saying that MUST happen and is the entire purpose of the game.
Nobody, except you, has made this argument.
Oh, and I think the term you were looking for OP was thermite.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Cidanel Afuran
Chickenhawk.
220
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 21:07:41 -
[26] - Quote
Trobax wrote:How about upon dieing, firing a space harpoon aka "Poon" , keeping the opponent frozen into position for 5 minutes, gettin gate gunned (sry, just read reddit forums, these ppl got some interesting and novel ideas)
GIVE US THE POON!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60BjkUtqxPE |
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
290
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 23:38:28 -
[27] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Oh, and I think the term you were looking for OP was thermite. But I was so excited for cornering the Space Termite Hive 1 market. |
Lai Lai Shalastringe
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.09.17 23:56:28 -
[28] - Quote
No one schooled no one in any way. It has been pretty much just people shouting out the "Church of Pirate Gatecamp in Hisec" all the time, forgeting that what I put here is not a change that impacts only killing solo players ambushed in ill conceived gatecamps from low life pirates. That is what is sad.
Quote:We want an EVE Online where you the players control more of the EVE universe, and where exerting that control provides for conflict, collaboration, cleverness, and reasons to live amongst the stars. We want you to build the market hub in your area of space and make money off it, and then defend it when someone wants to destroy it. We want your alliance to build the industrial headquarters of your coalition in a solar system, and then have the coalition use its military might to protect its assets when enemies attack. We want your home in space to be something you built, not just a place you moved into. We want this to be available on a suitable scale for the most massive coalitions down to the smallest corps of friends and even the lone wolves amongst you. We believe this is the path to bringing you more of the kind of epic conflicts and player driven experiences that are unique to EVE Online. EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now.
CCP Seagull
I really dont care how you see EVE as much as I dont care to have a "illusion" for it either. I read, and read a lot. I see what CCP says they say when they say, I just dont misuse their words to justify my vision.
Some people are so nerd that EVE is being "developed to them" that they accuse other people of doing that when they simply convey an idea that is in fact what is said by the devs.
Again, CCP is the one saying that PvP take many forms, and it is not because I am not shooting at you that I am destroying you. That is pretty clear. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3347
|
Posted - 2015.09.18 03:37:42 -
[29] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Oh, and I think the term you were looking for OP was thermite. But I was so excited for cornering the Space Termite Hive 1 market.
I was thinking of Galaxy Quest and the Thermians/Termites.
Quote:Jason Nesmith: Remember yesterday at the convention, those people dressed like aliens? They were aliens! They were termites or... or dalmations. I can't really remember cause I was kinda hungover.
Oh, and so as to not be off topic (although the OP did mention termites)....
-1 to the idea.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1620
|
Posted - 2015.09.18 07:34:51 -
[30] - Quote
Lai Lai Shalastringe wrote:No one schooled no one in any way. It has been pretty much just people shouting out the "Church of Pirate Gatecamp in Hisec" all the time, forgeting that what I put here is not a change that impacts only killing solo players ambushed in ill conceived gatecamps from low life pirates. That is what is sad. No, what is sad is that you are continuing to make against straw-man arguments against things no one is saying. Of course Eve PvP is more than just highsec ganking and lowsec gate camps and of course there is more to Eve than being a pirate. But that doesn't change the fact that your proposed module deletes the playstyle of pirate, both lowsec and highsec pirate, from the game.
You still haven't answered my question: why should players be prevented from making a living as a pirate, taking stuff from other players for their livelihood? CCP clearly wants/intends for there to be pirates in the game. By preventing players from taking the fittings and cargo of other players you are removing the opportunity to be a pirate in Eve. How do you think this will make the game better? |
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