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Armahk
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.09.18 17:52:40 -
[1] - Quote
Hi All,
I'm hoping someone can shed some light here for me.
I'm heavily invested into drones, and currently fly a Dominix for L4's. I also have skilled up a little bit in missiles and caldari ships to run a T1-fitted Raven. Before I go any deeper into the Raven world though, can someone tell me why Raven's are considered better than a Domi for missions?
The convenience alone in not having to deal with ammunition to me is a huge incentive to staying with drones, but then I hear Raven's are the best mission-runners, and think that I must be missing something.
So, am I missing something? |
Paranoid Loyd
6906
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Posted - 2015.09.18 17:57:22 -
[2] - Quote
Best is subjective unless a very specific goal is defined and even then it is still somewhat open to interpretation. It sounds like Domi is best for you. If you are heavily invested in drone skills and started training missile skills, you are in a good position to train into a Rattlesnake. Which IMO is better than both.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Armahk
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.09.18 18:02:17 -
[3] - Quote
That's the second time I've heard that the Rattlesnake is the new great thing in drone boats.
What I'm mainly worrying about is DPS. At some point, do missile boats so far outshine drones that I should "jump ship" and start heavily investing in missiles?
I've been away from Eve for over 6 years, and just coming back, so I don't mind the time-sink to make the change. I'm not married to any path.
The Rattlesnake is a sexy-looking ship though... |
Paranoid Loyd
6906
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Posted - 2015.09.18 18:11:20 -
[4] - Quote
It depends on your style really. If I were you I would stick with Domi train missiles and go straight to Rattlesnake from there.
Keep in mind that paper DPS =/= applied DPS. Your DPS for a Raven may show much higher than a Domi, but the Domi will apply it's damage much better.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1718
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Posted - 2015.09.18 18:40:43 -
[5] - Quote
missile boats blow, and for years were highly over rated as they mostly aren't limited to one damage profile. that said if you only have the SP and/or resources for one ship they might be good enough to be the one boat that gets you through.
however if you already have the drone skills I'd just go for the domi. and use that till you can train whatever else you want to try.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
596
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Posted - 2015.09.19 14:21:09 -
[6] - Quote
I am not saying which one is better. But... I can kill stuff from 180-200 km away with my raven, with maxed skills. I don't see domi doing it with drones. And missiles don't miss. Though missiles and drones have travel time so paper dps=/=applied dps.
For me it is really a matter of laziness. I am lazy, I use missiles.
Life is short and dinner time is chancy
Eat dessert first!
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
528
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Posted - 2015.09.19 14:44:32 -
[7] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:missile boats blow, and for years were highly over rated as they mostly aren't limited to one damage profile. that said if you only have the SP and/or resources for one ship they might be good enough to be the one boat that gets you through. In many ways the Missile ships are better than the alternatives. Whether those advantages are important to you as a player are what really matters and so this statement is both true and false depending on ones point of view.
OP The real question to ask yourself is do I prefer drones enough that I want to fly them over anything else. If the answer is yes then you should stay in the Domi for now and skill towards the Rattle. In my opinion it is the best of the drones ships for a mission pilot.
The Raven is a capable missions ship although I would suggest the Caldari Navy variant if you go that way. More expensive but definitely worth it.
No matter what ship you are flying your drones skills can be extremely useful. To one degree or another all BS class ships struggle to kill frigates and a really good set of light drones is very helpful in this regard. Medium, heavy or sentry drone can help with the larger ships by adding DPS that does not require a sacrifice in other areas of your fit.
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Forum Toon
State War Academy Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2015.09.19 22:16:35 -
[8] - Quote
Armahk wrote:That's the second time I've heard that the Rattlesnake is the new great thing in drone boats.
What I'm mainly worrying about is DPS. At some point, do missile boats so far outshine drones that I should "jump ship" and start heavily investing in missiles?
I've been away from Eve for over 6 years, and just coming back, so I don't mind the time-sink to make the change. I'm not married to any path.
The Rattlesnake is a sexy-looking ship though...
rattler is more "fun" wicked ship then ideal best ever one.
imagine using MWD to get into short range from the enemies... then you blast them to bits with RHML.... which fire like machine guns giant missiles all over the place. then you send a Gecko... which is like a little cruiser fighting by your side or 2 heavy drones which are like ... 2 destroyers? fighting by your side. and all of that in best looking hull in the game (scorpion hull). |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
8556
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Posted - 2015.09.20 02:14:38 -
[9] - Quote
My Raven was equipped with the following:
HIGH 06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I 01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1 01 x SALVAGER I
MEDIUM 04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS 01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM 01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER
LOW 01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL 01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I 01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I 02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I
DRONES 02 x WARRIOR I DRONES 03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES
UPGRADES 01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I 01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I
[b]----
CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
401
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Posted - 2015.09.20 02:19:29 -
[10] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:My Raven was equipped with the following:
HIGH 06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I 01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1 01 x SALVAGER I
MEDIUM 04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS 01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM 01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER
LOW 01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL 01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I 01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I 02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I
DRONES 02 x WARRIOR I DRONES 03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES
UPGRADES 01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I 01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I 1/10 troll post/fit |
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
8556
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Posted - 2015.09.20 02:34:18 -
[11] - Quote
[b]----
CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
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Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
590
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Posted - 2015.09.20 02:53:09 -
[12] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Bumblefck wrote:My Raven was equipped with the following:
HIGH 06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I 01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1 01 x SALVAGER I
MEDIUM 04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS 01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM 01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER
LOW 01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL 01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I 01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I 02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I
DRONES 02 x WARRIOR I DRONES 03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES
UPGRADES 01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I 01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I 1/10 troll post/fit History class - you flunked it. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
108
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Posted - 2015.09.20 06:32:59 -
[13] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:My Raven was equipped with the following:
HIGH 06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I 01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1 01 x SALVAGER I
MEDIUM 04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS 01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM 01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER
LOW 01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL 01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I 01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I 02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I
DRONES 02 x WARRIOR I DRONES 03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES
UPGRADES 01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I 01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I
Bit my tongue eating after gazing at this fit.
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Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
596
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Posted - 2015.09.20 15:52:53 -
[14] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:My Raven was equipped with the following:
HIGH 06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I 01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1 01 x SALVAGER I
MEDIUM 04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS 01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM 01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER
LOW 01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL 01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I 01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I 02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I
DRONES 02 x WARRIOR I DRONES 03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES
UPGRADES 01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I 01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I Trains keep on rolling. Trolls keep on trolling.
Life is short and dinner time is chancy
Eat dessert first!
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Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
4653
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Posted - 2015.09.20 16:01:36 -
[15] - Quote
+1 on moving into a Rattlesnake. There's zero downside and cost-wise you're only looking maybe +$150m ISK extra for the hull. Rapid heavy launchers don't take very long to train into and are very effective.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
532
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Posted - 2015.09.20 16:42:48 -
[16] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Bumblefck wrote:My Raven was equipped with the following:
HIGH 06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I 01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1 01 x SALVAGER I
MEDIUM 04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS 01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM 01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER
LOW 01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL 01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I 01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I 02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I
DRONES 02 x WARRIOR I DRONES 03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES
UPGRADES 01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I 01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I 1/10 troll post/fit Not sure I buy the troll post thing but I nearly fell off my chair when I saw a shield extenders / boosters and armor hardeners in the same fit. Someone needs to go back to fitting 101 and study why combination shield / armor fits are very bad for missions.
I am not saying this is the best fit, it is just one that has been kicked around in my corp recently for use by lower skills pilots. Would be light years better than the one above though. [Raven, Mission]
6x 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I
X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Large Micro Jump Drive 2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
3x Ballistic Control System II Shield Power Relay II Damage Control II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Drones to fit your needs / wants
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Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
4655
|
Posted - 2015.09.20 17:56:47 -
[17] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Would be light years better than the one above though. Anything would be better than that. The only thing I might change on your fit is a 100MN afterburner instead of the EM Ward Field II (since you kind of have the EM hole plugged with the two invulnerabilities). That way you can MJD, orbit @100km with the afterburner and tank most of the damage.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
591
|
Posted - 2015.09.20 18:12:07 -
[18] - Quote
Noobs R Us wrote:Bumblefck wrote:My Raven was equipped with the following:
HIGH 06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I 01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1 01 x SALVAGER I
MEDIUM 04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS 01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM 01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER
LOW 01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL 01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I 01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I 02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I
DRONES 02 x WARRIOR I DRONES 03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES
UPGRADES 01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I 01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I troll post
Ship Fitting Guide |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
8578
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Posted - 2015.09.20 18:58:57 -
[19] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Not sure I buy the troll post thing but I nearly fell off my chair when I saw a shield extenders / boosters and armor hardeners in the same fit. Someone needs to go back to fitting 101 and study why combination shield / armor fits are very bad for missions.
Not sure I buy your complete lack of knowledge of EVE history...oh wait, I do. Someone needs to go back to EVE history 101 and study why newbies these days are missing large gaps of what makes this game great.
[b]----
CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1731
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Posted - 2015.09.20 19:32:07 -
[20] - Quote
Caleidascope wrote:I am not saying which one is better. But... I can kill stuff from 180-200 km away with my raven, with maxed skills. I don't see domi doing it with drones. And missiles don't miss. Though missiles and drones have travel time so paper dps=/=applied dps.
For me it is really a matter of laziness. I am lazy, I use missiles. pretty much no reason to be at that long of a range. Plus sentry drones will automatically find new targets, hard to get lazier than that
Donnachadh wrote:I am not saying this is the best fit, it is just one that has been kicked around in my corp recently for use by lower skills pilots. Would be light years better than the one above though. [Raven, Mission]
6x 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I
X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Large Micro Jump Drive 2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
3x Ballistic Control System II Shield Power Relay II Damage Control II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Drones to fit your needs / wants
pretty cookie cutter, but the shield power relay doesn't really make any sense. I'd swap for another BCU or a missile guidance enhancer.
and to whoever said rattlesnake, yea it's pretty much the best of both.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Morgan Agrivar
Happy Endings Massage Parlor
68
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Posted - 2015.09.20 19:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
I was using a Dominix for L4s and wasn't really impressed. I moved on to an AC Machariel and absolutely love it (755 dps at 70km not counting drones, 870 dps with medium drones). I would go Rattlesnake but I have absolutely no missile skills to speak of.
"Out of all the people who have tried to kill me, you are my favorite."
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
534
|
Posted - 2015.09.21 02:02:54 -
[22] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Not sure I buy your complete lack of knowledge of EVE history...oh wait, I do. Someone needs to go back to EVE history 101 and study why newbies these days are missing large gaps of what makes this game great. How is posting a fail fit like yours going to teach those new players the history of the game you seem to think they are lacking?
A combo fit like yours MAY have worked in the dark ages (pre 2010) but it has not worked since I started (2010) and they do not work today so how is it even relevant to the questions being asked by the OP?
Wondering how and why you think I need to study the history of this game simply because I called you out for posting a fail fit?
Arthur Aihaken and Chainsaw Plankton thank you for the feedback on the fit, I will add your thoughts to the notes on this one and post them in the appropriate places. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1735
|
Posted - 2015.09.21 02:22:28 -
[23] - Quote
look up the item "ship fitting guide" in game, it is a reference to an old forum post. and yes the fit was awful at the time it was posted. I don't think it was ever a relevant fit. Ever since then it has been a joke to paste the fit into threads where people ask about ravens.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
534
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Posted - 2015.09.21 03:11:35 -
[24] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:look up the item "ship fitting guide" in game, it is a reference to an old forum post. and yes the fit was awful at the time it was posted. I don't think it was ever a relevant fit. Ever since then it has been a joke to paste the fit into threads where people ask about ravens. Learn something every day. Still wondering how and why it is appropriate to post such a thing in response to a new players questions about a ship fit? especially when there is nothing that in any way indicates that it is supposed to be a joke.
I don't know about you but I get fail fits like this sent to me by new players all the time, how is one of them supposed to be able to differentiate a good fit from a fail one when they do not have the experience and knowledge to tell them apart? |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1737
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Posted - 2015.09.21 04:56:19 -
[25] - Quote
1. there are usually enough sensible players around that hopefully they realize it before they buy all the parts and fit it 2. it is a raven hull, hopefully by the time they can sit in one and have the isk to buy one, that one shouldn't fit a ship like that. 3. if they are sensible enough to come to the forums, hopefully they have the patience to at least check a few sources 4. another hopefully: the spelling errors give it away, or at least give enough pause to think about the fit 5. the slot layout is wrong. although I suppose that is a fairly recent change, at least as things in eve go 6. the format is weird. I'm 90% used to seeing people post in eft formatting, the other 10% is eft formatting with a few user modifications to the lines, usually to reduce line count. like 6x this launcher, instaed of 6 lines of this launcher
I am rather unsympathetic to anyone that doesn't figure it out. However if they do make that mistake and can admit it and ask for help I'm happy to give pointers on where to move on from there.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1519
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Posted - 2015.09.21 05:43:30 -
[26] - Quote
I have a MJD Domi and a MJD Rattler.
The Rattlesnake completes missions faster but you are working hard at it. I expect a brawler rattler would give even more ISK/hour but would be even more workload.
The Dominix returns a bit less ISK/hour but is very much an easy mode semi afk sit back and sip coffee and watch the red dots disappear ship. |
erg cz
Aligned Fleet CZ-SK
336
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Posted - 2015.09.21 12:04:19 -
[27] - Quote
Caleidascope wrote:I am not saying which one is better. But... I can kill stuff from 180-200 km away with my raven, with maxed skills. I don't see domi doing it with drones. And missiles don't miss. Though missiles and drones have travel time so paper dps=/=applied dps.
For me it is really a matter of laziness. I am lazy, I use missiles.
Dominix can stay over 160 km from targets and shoot them with sentry drones inside their optimal range. Yes, drone optimal range bonus can be that effective. It is over 600 DPS at 160 km with instant damage... Someone mentioned applyed dps?
Yes, rattlesnake at close range will do almost twice that damage, but for the cost of expensive ammo, charges etc... But the very same Dominix fit will do over 900 DPS with Garde and faction short range ammo.
Sentry drones are immune to EWAR, they auto target, did someone mentioned laziness?
TL;DR: For relaxed sniper MJD shooting Dominix is the best. For close up hectic struggle Rattlesnake, Machariel or marradeur shops are better. Hmm, no Raven...
Absolutely free trial extension. Just click the link and get your extra 2 weeks of Eve for free!
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Yolli Sly
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2015.09.23 13:08:46 -
[28] - Quote
With Rattle (with Domi too i think, ton'`t know ) + sentry you are sitting duck. Each rat not lazy shoots and strikes. And after first webbed and lost Gecko you stop loving Rattle.
Flay Barghest for same ISK. Evolution (+bonus room) - 40 min in "kill_them_all" mod. Funny boat (not against Guristas, however). |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
784
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Posted - 2015.09.23 13:32:26 -
[29] - Quote
Too lazy to read through everything, but I will say this; if you go with a sniper fit, don't run missions against NPCs who use missiles.
Also, Marauder = ultimate laziness. |
Yolli Sly
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2015.09.23 14:42:17 -
[30] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Too lazy to read through everything, but I will say this; if you go with a sniper fit, don't run missions against NPCs who use missiles.
Also, Marauder = ultimate laziness.
True, may be, but not for 5-10-15 mil SP pilots. Pirate ships are shortest way to go for lvl 4, as soon as you get enough standings. |
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