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Ben Ishikela
64
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Posted - 2015.09.22 17:43:08 -
[1] - Quote
Some Inspiration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lJZutcwLyM
Remove JumpFreighters/CloakHauler/CloakTrick and make a new T2Freighter(mjd&LotsOfCargo&moreTank, but no JumpDrive). Because we need more opportunities for piracy, escorts and decentralised economy! ...also Convoys.
^^ this... just to hear what you guys think. I am sure, you want to rip this piece of text apart. Come at me! xD
For reference: - WW2. Atlantic War. (with jumpfreighters, that would have been boring to read about) - Economic figures/charts that will be presented soon. im sure. - burnouts of jumpfreighter pilots/services - starving of local nullsec economies & heavy reliance on Jita - opportunities for "underdogs" to weaken an entity, which has naval supremacy and can ecalate more. Done by performing hit&run tacitcs is wanted by many players. (check MOA) - Truesec makes no sense. It did in the past thou. -...
Remove JumpFreighters/CloakHauler/CloakTrick and make a new T2Freighter(mjd&LotsOfCargo&moreTank, but no JumpDrive). Because we need more opportunities for piracy, escorts and decentralised economy! ...also Convoys.
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Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
45
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Posted - 2015.09.22 18:14:33 -
[2] - Quote
Ben Ishikela wrote: For reference: - burnouts of jumpfreighter pilots/services
Are you implying that these people wouldn't get burned out FASTER hauling things without jumpfreighters? I couldn't bear to watch more than two minutes of that video; I know I'd kill myself if I was spending hours daily watching a warp-tunnel surrounding my ship. In fact I could save the -ú10 a month and watch the video instead.
Null needs to be self sufficient enough not to require constant jump-freighters and then we can think about removing them.
A case for more AoE in EvE
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2020
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Posted - 2015.09.22 18:23:55 -
[3] - Quote
Convoys are fun only for the attackers. For everyone else it's like poking yourself in the eye with a stick. |
Leto Aramaus
Spiritus Draconis Spaceship Bebop
247
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Posted - 2015.09.22 18:46:03 -
[4] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Null needs to be self sufficient
This.
CCP make whatever tweaks to resources, production, taxes, hi-sec, null-sec, whatever... to make it so that it is significantly , exorbitantly cheaper and more efficient to gather the resources needed and produce your "toys" (ships, mods, rigs, stations, everything) in your own space.
Make shipping very expensive. Somehow.
This will create markets in player-space. Want Caldari HACs/Recons/T2shit?
"Oh you should go to X-nullsec region where the parts for caldari T2 ships are most plentiful. The alliance that lives there builds them and sells them in their stations for wayyyy cheaper than you can find them anywhere else. Therefore you can go buy a bunch, export them, and sell them elsewhere for profits!"
Etc. and repeat with any type of goods people want to buy in EVE. Each region, constellation, hell... individual systems... can have resources that are only found, or most plentifully found, there.
Whatever we do with freighters, jump freighters, haulers, etc... balance them around making shipping cost money, and separate locations being unique.
The UI update we deserve
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3376
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Posted - 2015.09.22 22:35:57 -
[5] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:Ben Ishikela wrote: For reference: - burnouts of jumpfreighter pilots/services
Are you implying that these people wouldn't get burned out FASTER hauling things without jumpfreighters? I couldn't bear to watch more than two minutes of that video; I know I'd kill myself if I was spending hours daily watching a warp-tunnel surrounding my ship. In fact I could save the -ú10 a month and watch the video instead. Null needs to be self sufficient enough not to require constant jump-freighters and then we can think about removing them.
Or nerfing them. But overall...yeah.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3376
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Posted - 2015.09.22 22:37:29 -
[6] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Convoys are fun only for the attackers. For everyone else it's like poking yourself in the eye with a stick.
This too.
I recall one thread where an old vet was talking about how awesome it was to escort freighters back in the day.
My question, if it was so awesome...why aren't you still doing it?
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Samillian
Angry Mustellid Decayed Orbit
1002
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Posted - 2015.09.22 22:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
I used to do a awful lot of logistics, this proposal does not appeal to me at all I'm afraid even though I'm all for more opportunities for piracy.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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M1k3y Koontz
Respawn Disabled Initiative Mercenaries
801
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Posted - 2015.09.23 00:32:06 -
[8] - Quote
"Logistics sucks, lets make it suck more"
Or, we don't do that. Burnout is the number one alliance killer. Don't make it worse.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
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Ben Ishikela
64
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Posted - 2015.09.23 01:40:40 -
[9] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Burnout is the number one alliance killer. Don't make it worse.
While that might be true: What about make it more difficult? If its a meaningful and dangerous thing to do, it might get interesting
You want it to cost more? What about time-cost?
I agree that there have to be more tools to sustain an alliance locally, before we can do something drastic like this.
After all: Its a Teamgame. If someone is burned out, he did not take messures early enough to distribute the work.
Remove JumpFreighters/CloakHauler/CloakTrick and make a new T2Freighter(mjd&LotsOfCargo&moreTank, but no JumpDrive). Because we need more opportunities for piracy, escorts and decentralised economy! ...also Convoys.
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
1930
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Posted - 2015.09.23 06:28:10 -
[10] - Quote
Ben Ishikela wrote:After all: Its a Teamgame. If someone is burned out, he did not take messures early enough to distribute the work. They burn out because no one else wants to do that job. People are more concerned with getting kill mails than with protecting something from something that either never happens or happens in a way that makes the protection pointless, especially in these days with bored entities like PL and CFC desperately looking for activities. You might get away once with a small freighter convoy into deep null sec, but not a second time. You can basically biomass that character and breed a new freighter pilot -- and throw your corp, your alliance and whatever space you held into the trash bin because people will camp you to get that freighter convoy mail pi+¦ata.
Also, tank is meaning less to freighters and jump freighters. I am not allowed to link kill mails in this forum, but please take the time and look up the character X-FEANOR. This is what you are going to see all over the place with your suggestion based on inexperience and non-knowledge.
With regards to self-sufficiency, I have suggested that all moon minerals are available more or less evenly clusterwide; that you do not need to depend on moon minerals from Deklein to build Cerberuses in Catch or Period Basis. However, you might want to have a look at this, which was brought up in the thread, and which summarizes the problems that Null mostly has when it comes to self-sufficiency. This is probably more pronounced than ever before with the rapid release cadence, where ships/modules can change and get/lose the I-Win-button quicker than you can produce alliance level amounts of them.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3376
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Posted - 2015.09.23 14:34:12 -
[11] - Quote
Ben Ishikela wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:Burnout is the number one alliance killer. Don't make it worse. While that might be true: What about make it more difficult? If its a meaningful and dangerous thing to do, it might get interesting. You want it to cost more? What about time-cost? I agree that there have to be more tools to sustain an alliance locally, before we can accept something drastic like jumpfreighterremoval. (supply contracts, multibuy, market restrictions) After all: Its a Teamgame. If someone is burned out, he did not take messures early enough to distribute the work. Multibuy and stations might easy the load a little. What about "Autopilot to Zero" in combination? More AFK-Freighter pilots can fly escort and clear bubbles on their alts.
Did you not read the part about not making it suck even more.
Or as I pointed out, there is, literally, nothing stopping you from tanking a freighter and doing this now with an escort fleet. But people do not do it. Because it sucks. So if people are not doing it voluntarily why will forcing them to do it make it better?
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
417
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Posted - 2015.09.23 15:46:49 -
[12] - Quote
If you think this is a "fun thing to do" create a low sec mining corp and defend them while they mine. This is much the same thing. |
Ben Ishikela
64
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Posted - 2015.09.23 19:48:42 -
[13] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
Did you not read the part about not making it suck even more.
Or as I pointed out, there is, literally, nothing stopping you from tanking a freighter and doing this now with an escort fleet. But people do not do it. Because it sucks. So if people are not doing it voluntarily why will forcing them to do it make it better?
I did read it. But it is not the main reason why people do not do it. Poeple always fly what is best (for them). Look at the Drake Fleet currently.
Why would people want to fly a convoy if they can just jump that stuff out !? The OverPowered thing here is the Jumpfreighter.
Yes, of course its not fun to make 30+ jumps in a slowboat. But Fun on most things is the accomplishment of a plan. If that plan is to stock a staging system. Just use a Jumpfreighter. But if you cant just jump there, the convoy will be the way to go. Also look at the huge profits that can be made, because noone else will be doing it.
Remove JumpFreighters/CloakHauler/CloakTrick and make a new T2Freighter(mjd&LotsOfCargo&moreTank, but no JumpDrive). Because we need more opportunities for piracy, escorts and decentralised economy! ...also Convoys.
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Leto Aramaus
Spiritus Draconis Spaceship Bebop
250
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Posted - 2015.09.23 19:52:54 -
[14] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:"Logistics sucks, lets make it suck more"
Or, we don't do that. Burnout is the number one alliance killer. Don't make it worse.
If they took my above suggestion logistics across the galaxy wouldn't be necessary, but would instead be long, possibly fun adventures that people who WANT to haul things do.
The UI update we deserve
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Ben Ishikela
64
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Posted - 2015.09.23 19:55:12 -
[15] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:(...) With regards to self-sufficiency, I have suggested that all moon minerals are available more or less evenly clusterwide; that you do not need to depend on moon minerals from Deklein to build Cerberuses in Catch or Period Basis. However, you might want to have a look at this, which was brought up in the thread, and which summarizes the problems that Null mostly has when it comes to self-sufficiency. This is probably more pronounced than ever before with the rapid release cadence, where ships/modules can change and get/lose the I-Win-button quicker than you can produce alliance level amounts of them.
While self-sufficiency in moongoo seems like a very "good" thing at first. Its dangerously deconnecting the economies of other parts of new-eden. So what about just the tools? With having the monopoly of one type of goo, a caravan can do LOTS of profit on its way out there AND on the way back. It provides content AND is dangerous.
Self sufficiency in T1 is ok. T2 is more powerful and the effort of hauling should be rewarded with that.
Remove JumpFreighters/CloakHauler/CloakTrick and make a new T2Freighter(mjd&LotsOfCargo&moreTank, but no JumpDrive). Because we need more opportunities for piracy, escorts and decentralised economy! ...also Convoys.
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Jatok Reknar
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
12
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Posted - 2015.09.23 20:07:02 -
[16] - Quote
I wholeheartedly disagree with this proposal. The surest way to hurt EVE is to make the crucial but mundane tasks such as logistics even more painful than it already is. Like someone below suggested, if you want to play the game this way, no one is preventing you from flying a freighter through LS with your buddies flying escort.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3377
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Posted - 2015.09.23 20:28:29 -
[17] - Quote
Ben Ishikela wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:
Did you not read the part about not making it suck even more.
Or as I pointed out, there is, literally, nothing stopping you from tanking a freighter and doing this now with an escort fleet. But people do not do it. Because it sucks. So if people are not doing it voluntarily why will forcing them to do it make it better?
I did read it. But it is not the main reason why people do not do it. Poeple always fly what is best (for them). Look at the Drake Fleet currently. Why would people want to fly a convoy if they can just jump that stuff out !? The OverPowered thing here is the Jumpfreighter. Yes, of course its not fun to make 30+ jumps in a slowboat. But Fun on most things is the accomplishment of a plan. If that plan is to stock a staging system. Just use a Jumpfreighter. But if you cant just jump there, the convoy will be the way to go. Also look at the huge profits that can be made, because noone else will be doing it.
Bad idea for a game that is supposed to fun.
Proof:
"Yes, of course its not fun to make 30+ jumps in a slowboat."
QED.
There, now we have proof this is a horrible idea.
Next horrible idea please?
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Ben Ishikela
64
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Posted - 2015.09.23 20:43:54 -
[18] - Quote
Jatok Reknar wrote:I wholeheartedly disagree with this proposal. The surest way to hurt EVE is to make the crucial but mundane tasks such as logistics even more painful than it already is. Like someone below suggested, if you want to play the game this way, no one is preventing you from flying a freighter through LS with your buddies flying escort.
Well, it might hurt at first, but then it will be soooo goood. Seriously thou yes there will very likely be a decline in m3 transported. But will it hurt? I doubt it. If you cant solo-haul the stuff anymore, groups will form for this task. And work in groups you like are fun. I came to eve because some guy IRL ("refuzoid") told me a story about how difficult it was to get the officer-loot to jita back in the day. Multiple scouts were needed. Preparations had to be made, such as Gatecamps stomped. But that gameplay is dead. D E A D. (just jump it out..... *gnaaah* boring.)
Sidenote: Why is everyone in Null so far spreadout? Because to stage in the systems that are close to highsec/lowsec would be waaay better without the existance of jumpfreighters. Then people start to live near the edges of low/high. That means more content because more crowded space there.
Let me explain: Logistic is a pain. I totaly agree. However, there are some that enjoy it. I know some of them. Quafe.de (german). But they dont do it for free. Hell, if there is profit to be made people start shooting at red crosses...WTF?! Thats also boring. But hey, ... every task that gives "enough reward" for accomplishment is fun in the end. The market will balance this out on its self.
What about phasing Jumpfreighters out over a Year (ofc after stations release). slightly reducing its jumprange 1LY per month. Then when zero is hit, buff the remaining stats of the (now called) "T2Freighter" to have an MJD(for bubbles) and more cargo(less pilots per convoy needed). ..etc.... ??
Remove JumpFreighters/CloakHauler/CloakTrick and make a new T2Freighter(mjd&LotsOfCargo&moreTank, but no JumpDrive). Because we need more opportunities for piracy, escorts and decentralised economy! ...also Convoys.
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Ben Ishikela
64
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Posted - 2015.09.23 20:45:57 -
[19] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: Bad idea for a game that is supposed to fun. Proof: "Yes, of course its not fun to make 30+ jumps in a slowboat." QED. There, now we have proof this is a horrible idea. Next horrible idea please?
You did not comprehend. Read further.
Remove JumpFreighters/CloakHauler/CloakTrick and make a new T2Freighter(mjd&LotsOfCargo&moreTank, but no JumpDrive). Because we need more opportunities for piracy, escorts and decentralised economy! ...also Convoys.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3379
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Posted - 2015.09.23 21:46:51 -
[20] - Quote
Ben Ishikela wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: Bad idea for a game that is supposed to fun. Proof: "Yes, of course its not fun to make 30+ jumps in a slowboat." QED. There, now we have proof this is a horrible idea. Next horrible idea please?
You did not comprehend. Read further.
I read the whole thing. Non-fun ideas are just bad. It is just that simple. Just to be completely exhaustive here....
Bob (pings Jabber or whatever): Everybody log in we have something boring and unfun to do.
Everybody else: Looks at the ping and start thinking....Hmmm, what's playing at the movies, hey my wife is looking good in those shorts, my dog needs a walk.....
Bob: C'mon people log in and lets do this boring and miserable thing. When we are done we'll have a great sense of accomplishment.
Everybody else:......(because they already walked away from the computer)
This is why most of Greyscale's ideas stunk. He wanted to make the game un-fun. He got confused. New Eden is a dystopian world, but that doesn't mean playing the game should be a dystopican experience.
Or let me try it this way. Everyday I put in effort on things that are generally boring and tiring. However, I also get paid for that effort. It is called having a job and work. I am not going to be terribly thrilled if one of my forms of entertainment and fun becomes a second job that I am not even getting paid for, or even worse I have to shell out cash for.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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