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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26252
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Posted - 2015.09.23 00:09:10 -
[31] - Quote
GǪand I can't recall ever seeing anyone suggest that industry be removed, other than maybe from some rage-quitters who decided that the whole thing must be stupid because they couldn't get their head around it (somehow).
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
14002
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Posted - 2015.09.23 00:19:05 -
[32] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Oh, I meant that in response to GÇ£doesn't everyone [lose a good portion of their assets]GÇ¥ GÇö I may have read your reply wrong. Well either way is true. Everyone risks, and everyone loses. Some do it to themselves, taking risks they cant afford to undock with. Corps and alliances rise and fall, and the fall is often over big losses be it from a wardec or because someone robbed them blind from within. Some losses are sudden, others are more slowly over time. One doesn't even need to undock to lose everything, people win and lose a fortune on the market all the time. Some to legal scamming even.
It's all just a part of EVE. The best anyone can do is just try to think smart, learn the game and try to be a step ahead of it. For some miners, that has meant going to null or wormhole where they have some protection with their corps and alliance. Doesn't mean they suddenly become safe, but the game isn't safe for anyone, just played smarter by some. So, mechanics are working as intended.
But I know you know all that
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Sir SmashAlot
The League of Extraordinary Opportunists Intergalactic Conservation Movement
182
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Posted - 2015.09.23 00:27:22 -
[33] - Quote
Over the last two years I have mostly seen mechanic changes making life as an Industrialist easier.
If meta game or other player activities have made your game play more difficult then it would be better to consider changing yourself than asking the community to change for you. |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
612
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Posted - 2015.09.23 01:08:39 -
[34] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪand I can't recall ever seeing anyone suggest that industry be removed, other than maybe from some rage-quitters who decided that the whole thing must be stupid because they couldn't get their head around it (somehow).
Must be in league with the whole, "Get rid of (CONCORD) High Sec," crowd. Then again, those guys just hate High Sec, but I've never heard someone wanting to kill specifically industry either.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
598
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Posted - 2015.09.23 01:36:19 -
[35] - Quote
Maduce Arnerette wrote:As both players were pushed to the brink of quitting because they lost a good portion of their assets.
"First I got ganked, then the 2-man indy corp I run with a buddy I met on Twatter got ripped off down to an Ibis by 'Someone.' Can't figure out who! So it must be CCP's fault." |
Cristl
253
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Posted - 2015.09.23 05:12:05 -
[36] - Quote
What mechanics are we talking about here? Bumping? |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
1585
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Posted - 2015.09.23 06:04:48 -
[37] - Quote
Calm down miner. Maybe you should just buy a mining permit for 10mil ISK and stop crying.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Otso Bakarti
Filial Pariahs
305
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Posted - 2015.09.23 06:20:47 -
[38] - Quote
Oh. Welcome to the land of "do you want us to hold your hand for you" and "if you can't hack it, go somewhere else...can I haz your stuff?" Folks have long since ceased looking at this game seriously in terms of its variables visa vis rubber-hits-the-road mechanics (or those who did have long since hit the highway.).
Suffice to say, if .075 IQs like it, then the management likes it. It it requires thought, imagination and other traits indicative of intelligence, then it's being hunted down one item at a time and deleted.
The solution to all your ills is to pay CODE ten million a month. Get on board Winston.
Back from the 90-day suspension for speaking truth to power.
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u3pog
Ministerstvo na otbranata
713
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Posted - 2015.09.23 06:26:36 -
[39] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Calm down miner. Maybe you should just buy a mining permit for 10mil ISK and stop crying.
You are not the only ones out there...Soo many untanked industrials flying around with billions of ISK inside...Heck, even I got tempted to try and teach 'em a lesson, but my lazyness won. Maybe another time, I'll leave the "hard" work for you. |
Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
1063
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Posted - 2015.09.23 06:55:26 -
[40] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:I've never heard someone wanting to kill specifically industry either. I actually did. It was hard to miss because abandon with which that guy was linking his blog in every thread possible was unmatched. His train of thought was something along these lines:
- EVE gets subs because pew - Losing stuff in pew is a chore - Therefore we need E:D kind of insurance - Couldn't care less about destroyed industry and market because nobody ever joined EVE subscription base for those (apparently).
Well, unless something like the above nonsense happens or EVE will somehow be unable to consume what only a few indies can build, industry in EVE should be fine, although there are tweaks that must be done IMO (mostly concerning meta modules and maybe T2 local production, although I have no real knowledge on that one).
Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17071
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Posted - 2015.09.23 07:14:51 -
[41] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:I can see some things being harder for industrialists. Mostly by things like invention being easier to do in bulk, which can lead to a saturated market.
That's about it.
(I'm not a fan of hyperdunking, but I mostly want to see the mechanics behind it change. Bumping is weird)
That's an effect of things being easier for industrialists.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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erg cz
Aligned Fleet CZ-SK
340
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Posted - 2015.09.23 07:46:14 -
[42] - Quote
I think it is like Odessey patch and exploration. Exploration became so easy and tempting, that number of explorers raised and exploration loot droped in prices.
Now you can manufacture unlimited number of products in any station with manufacture lines. Same with research. Before manufacture rewamp it was hard to find high sec research facility with open slots. Ppl were using POS. Now it is that easy and prices goes down.
Absolutely free trial extension. Just click the link and get your extra 2 weeks of Eve for free!
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
150
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Posted - 2015.09.23 08:08:42 -
[43] - Quote
Industry has gotten easier and easier, to the point where markets are saturated with products and people with no knowledge of what they are doing undersell and everyone makes little profit. So the reason industry players are quitting is most likely not that industry is too difficult but because it is too easy.
This doesn't apply to every aspect of industry of course, but the general trend particularly in the case of T2 manufacture is it has gotten easier.
Suggestion for a rebalance of ECM - Modulated ECM Effects
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Do Little
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
164
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Posted - 2015.09.23 08:37:28 -
[44] - Quote
Industry may have gotten a bit easier in terms of game mechanics but that simply means you need more player knowledge to make a profit.
There always seem to be threads whining about lack of profitability but, if you know what to sell, where to list it and understand the market cycles - you can get very wealthy as an industrialist in Eve.
Effective risk management is an important part of this. If there was no risk there would be a lot more competition and profits would be more difficult to find - especially in a commodity market like Eve where there are limited opportunities to add value.
In the real world, far more businesses fail than succeed - why should it be any different in game? |
Tank Murdock Jnr
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
29
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Posted - 2015.09.23 10:08:27 -
[45] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:people with no knowledge of what they are doing undersell and everyone makes little profit
Bit of a personal bugbear this one too. In theory, people who are continually underselling and not turning a profit should eventually go out of business, having run out of money. However, in practice this doesn't happen as "the minerals I mine are free", and the fixed cost of manufacturing makes up such a small proportion* of the overall cost that it's actually very difficult to end up with a net outflow of personal assets from bad industry decisions. If you regard your mined minerals and time as "free", as so many people mistakenly do, then in their heads they are making "profit" and will also rarely actually run out of money. Provided they sell their items at a price that covers the manufacturing run, they will never go bust. They'll never get rich either...maybe this is what the OP is actually doing?
There are plenty of markets that are absolutely saturated because of this. It's not bad game mechanics that makes certain aspects of industry challenging, it's the large number of bad industrialists.
*although it varies by item, and is mildly complex for other reaons, just having a quick look at T1 cruisers the actual assemby cost is around 2-2.5% of total cost.
When a person is insane, as you clearly are, do you know that you're insane? Maybe you're just sitting around, reading 'Guns and Ammo', masturbating in your own faeces, do you just stop and go, 'Wow! It is amazing how f*cking crazy I really am!'?
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
151
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Posted - 2015.09.23 10:08:45 -
[46] - Quote
Do Little wrote:There always seem to be threads whining about lack of profitability but, if you know what to sell, where to list it and understand the market cycles - you can get very wealthy as an industrialist in Eve. Your mixing up being a trader and an industrialist. Many people do both but there is a difference between trading profit and industry profit. Just ask yourself could I have made this profit by simply buying the goods from the market and reselling, if the answer is yes then its trading profit.
Suggestion for a rebalance of ECM - Modulated ECM Effects
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Sgt Ocker
Military Bustards FUBAR.
724
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Posted - 2015.09.23 11:23:10 -
[47] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Emiai wrote:Is this thread about being ganked? That would be my guess. They must likely were hauling more than 1 bil in a freighter through a common choke point system. Simple solution is to haul less. Yes, that means more trips but the added safety makes up for it. Alternatively, they lost a POS or were robbed blind by a corpmate. For the former, get stuff our of a POS when a wardec occurs. If robbed, don't be so trusting. That said, them quiting decreases competition and makes room for new blood that may bring new ideas to the table which will lead to more profit for all. Just for interest sake - 20/9 to 22/9; 49 T1 freighters died; 27 of those with a killmail value of less than 2 bil. Average of 1.3 bil per freighter buy price, over half the freighters killed were either empty or carrying less than 1 bil in cargo or "safe from gank" value. (average for the 27 was 1.49 bil = less than 200 mil in cargo) Gank for profit groups are a small minority when it comes down to freighter kills.
"That said,........ more profit for all." - Except for the consumer of course..
For the OP; Bottom line is - If you don't want to lose assets, take more care with them. Eve is a PVP game, those who want to destroy your stuff know commonly used routes and camp them waiting for the, too lazy to use "avoid XXX system" when setting a destination. The game mechanics aren't broken, you just need to use them to YOUR advantage.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode -
Vice Admiral, Forum Dictator, Arrogant Nobody
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Talsha Talamar
Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
24
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Posted - 2015.09.23 12:21:28 -
[48] - Quote
One of the main problem with industry is the ability to overproduce nearly anything in nearly no time and with nearly no skill requirements.
In my opinion, the build times on many BPOs should be scaled up by a very large factor.
Why is overproduction happening even more than before ?
1. They lowered entry barriers into the T2 market substantially in Crius. 2. They removed basic waste and thus replaced production efficiency with a TE bonus. 3. They lowered the copy time and in some cases production time of quite a few items. 4. They oversimplified production and removed one key element that gave it some diversity: teams. 5. They simplified invention but never introduced the variable outcome mechanics.
I do not mind quite a few of the simplifications since they made life as well a lot easier. I am also happy that more people have access to industry.
But the ability of just a few players to saturate an regional market with most modules or ships is bad. Look at the T2 hull market down in Amarr for example. The vast majority of t2 Hulls have 10 or more times their daily volume in offers.
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Thomas Lot
Mechanical Engineers
3
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Posted - 2015.09.23 13:36:38 -
[49] - Quote
Industry is going to be about transporting goods at some point. I, for one, love the fact that transportation is not perfectly safe. Safe is boring, and boring is going to lead to more people quitting than a couple of rage whiners. Of course there are ways of limiting the risk, but it requires that the pilot be aware at all times.
I think I read through the other posts and found that no one else said the obvious. Don't fly it if you don't want to risk it. Anyone that undocks with more than 50% of their total assets SHOULD be killed. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5564
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Posted - 2015.09.23 18:26:39 -
[50] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:I can see some things being harder for industrialists. Mostly by things like invention being easier to do in bulk, which can lead to a saturated market.
That's about it.
(I'm not a fan of hyperdunking, but I mostly want to see the mechanics behind it change. Bumping is weird) That's an effect of things being easier for industrialists.
Yup
(I'm not complaining. Just to be entirely clear here. I think some T2 build times should be longer. But that's just a gut feel opinion)
Woo! CSM X!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
190
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:03:55 -
[51] - Quote
Maduce Arnerette wrote:I want to ask your guys opinions on something. In the space of 1 month, 2 frequent industrial players have rage-quit the game for reasons that boil down to what they describe as 'bad game mechanics' for industrialists.
So, my question is to you guys. What do you think of EVEs current climate for industrialists, regarding PvP. As both players were pushed to the brink of quitting because they lost a good portion of their assets.
Obviously, this (if it is an issue) is an important point to discuss. Because without industrialists, EVEs economy would struggle. Which spells bad news bears for the game.
(Please add constructive feedback)
The pvp players think they alone support the game and Eve would be fine if CCP did away with the pve side.
After 10 yrs they still hold onto the idea that somehow everyone doing pve in hi-sec will magically wake up one day and want to pvp.
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Helia Tranquilis
State War Academy Caldari State
24
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Posted - 2015.09.24 19:41:43 -
[52] - Quote
At the moment demand for anything is bad. With big conflicts came big profits. Small gang pvp doesn't really create enough demand for markets to notice.
Industry tax also hurts already narrow profits, and it rises fast with even half serious manufacturing. Moving doesn't really help as the index is back up in a few days.
Sadly the only fix for industrial agony is to fix nullsec and bring back incentives to fight big and in turn, lose big. |
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