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Kennedy Lincoln
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2015.09.23 19:12:53 -
[1] - Quote
I just got a ship with a sub 40 signal radius and I am debating whether to install a warp stab. It's sig is so small, is it a waste to install a warp stab? How quickly can a pirate lock me?
I understand there are numerous variables here but I can probably get a consensus with real EVE experiences on both approaches by asking.
My ship is very quick and cloaks in less than 2 seconds. Warps around 5 seconds. I am installing a MWD.
I plan on going null-sec and w-space.
Thank you for reading and all civil replies are appreciated. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1482
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 19:31:01 -
[2] - Quote
What ship is it and what is the purpose of the ship? If you want to be able to fight, stabs are a no-go, because they kill your locking range and increase your locking time significantly.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1761
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 20:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
the answer of when to fit a warpstab is clear: NEVER!
@ChainsawPlankto
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Kennedy Lincoln
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2015.09.23 20:14:40 -
[4] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:the answer of when to fit a warpstab is clear: NEVER!
I am not sure your reply was honest. Sorry but your credibility is in the toilet. |
Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
221
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Posted - 2015.09.23 20:18:19 -
[5] - Quote
Kennedy Lincoln wrote:I just got a ship with a sub 40 signal radius and I am debating whether to install a warp stab. It's sig is so small, is it a waste to install a warp stab? How quickly can a pirate lock me?
I understand there are numerous variables here but I can probably get a consensus with real EVE experiences on both approaches by asking.
My ship is very quick and cloaks in less than 2 seconds. Warps around 5 seconds. I am installing a MWD.
I plan on going null-sec and w-space.
Thank you for reading and all civil replies are appreciated.
If you are fitting for travel only and have no intention of fighting in this ship, go for it. Stabs have gotten me out of many a scrape in a blockade runner, T3 cruiser or interceptor. It's part of what could be termed a "travel fit." But don't rely on them.
Stabs are not a perfect defence. I killed a dual-stabbed interceptor the other day on a station undock. Had to explain to him how my warp disruptor + warp scrambler not only shut off his MWD but prevented his warp as well.
If you are at all interested in fights, no stabs. No. Non. Nope. Nada. For reasons already explained very well by Tipa.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1762
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 20:22:59 -
[6] - Quote
Kennedy Lincoln wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:the answer of when to fit a warpstab is clear: NEVER! I am not sure your reply was honest. Sorry but your credibility is in the toilet. you're a noob, I forgive you
@ChainsawPlankto
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
11975
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 20:32:28 -
[7] - Quote
Kennedy Lincoln wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:the answer of when to fit a warpstab is clear: NEVER! I am not sure your reply was honest. Sorry but your credibility is in the toilet. Fyi, 1) trolling is exlicitly forbidden in this subforum( the rest of them are effectively weponised though) so thats not whats going on here and 2)he's actually one of the more consistently altruistic and credible posters here .
Also I agree with him on this topic, stabs can be countered fairly easily but more importantly breed complacency in a young pilot. Better to learn how to be harder to catch in the first place than greesing yourself up and trying to get away after you have been cought.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Memphis Baas
582
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Posted - 2015.09.23 20:39:04 -
[8] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton is a PVP'er, and if you look at the number of "likes" that he has, he also posts on the forums a lot, and his posts are usually pretty good advice. It would help if he explained his "never", though.
Stabs are bad because:
- Most pirates know how many low slots each ship has, and will definitely have enough people there to warp-jam you despite all your stabs. You sacrifice your armor, resistances, and any chance to fight back (because you can't target-lock worth a damn), and the pirate just brings 2 friends flying cheap frigates, and you're screwed no matter how many stabs you have.
- You sacrifice low slots that can enhance a ship's survivability or effectiveness in order to install the stabs.
- You rely on the stabs, and you make the decision to run before you even undock, no matter what. Even in situations where an aggressive attitude would save you. "Hey, this freaking interceptor has just decloaked and is target-locking me. WTF? His friends must be on the other side of this gate trying to kill us!! Everybody warp away!"
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Kennedy Lincoln
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 20:50:12 -
[9] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Kennedy Lincoln wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:the answer of when to fit a warpstab is clear: NEVER! I am not sure your reply was honest. Sorry but your credibility is in the toilet. you're a noob, I forgive you
Not a noob. I started in 2009. Your reputation as a dweeb is now solidified. Don't care if you forgive me. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1483
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 20:53:33 -
[10] - Quote
Personally I remember only two situations using stabs: - travelling to a staging system for lowsec incursions - escaping with a brick ship from a station without insta undock under low sec status
There are some people fitting stabs to fleet Interdictors.
On the other hand I kill stabbed ships regularly, always carrying enough points to cancel your number of stabs in case. Others will just kill you with brute force so fast, you have no chance to "use" your stabs. Stabs are also useless against bubbles. They may help a couple of times against bad hunters, but I would rather go with Ralph's advice, learn how to not get caught in the first place.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Kennedy Lincoln
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 20:55:02 -
[11] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Kennedy Lincoln wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:the answer of when to fit a warpstab is clear: NEVER! I am not sure your reply was honest. Sorry but your credibility is in the toilet. Fyi, 1) trolling is exlicitly forbidden in this subforum( the rest of them are effectively weponised though) so thats not whats going on here and 2)he's actually one of the more consistently altruistic and credible posters here . Also I agree with him on this topic, stabs can be countered fairly easily but more importantly breed complacency in a young pilot. Better to learn how to be harder to catch in the first place than greesing yourself up and trying to get away after you have been cought.
Wonderful for you to support your friend but mucho mucho docs and blogs support the use of stabs.
With the exception of the point made here - don't bother with them if you are out for PVP action. That is good advice I will heed. Right now I am just enjoying mining and exploring. My skill set total is high. Not a young pilot but thanks for replying.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
11977
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 20:57:24 -
[12] - Quote
Kennedy Lincoln wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Kennedy Lincoln wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:the answer of when to fit a warpstab is clear: NEVER! I am not sure your reply was honest. Sorry but your credibility is in the toilet. you're a noob, I forgive you Not a noob. I started in 2009. Your reputation as a dweeb is now solidified. Don't care if you forgive me. Acting like one though
*asks for advice
*gets great advice
*throws it back in poster's face...
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Kennedy Lincoln
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 20:59:58 -
[13] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Personally I remember only two situations using stabs: - travelling to a staging system for lowsec incursions - escaping with a brick ship from a station without insta undock under low sec status
There are some people fitting stabs to fleet Interdictors.
On the other hand I kill stabbed ships regularly, always carrying enough points to cancel your number of stabs in case. Others will just kill you with brute force so fast, you have no chance to "use" your stabs. Stabs are also useless against bubbles. They may help a couple of times against bad hunters, but I would rather go with Ralph's advice, learn how to not get caught in the first place.
Stabs AREN'T useless against bubbles. I run two stabs in my Diamos and no bubble has stopped me yet. That being said, if there are numerous others waiting with scrams, I am sure I'd be toast.
I still can cloak but....I don't want to test this scenario. Thanks for replying! |
Kennedy Lincoln
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 21:02:12 -
[14] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Kennedy Lincoln wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Kennedy Lincoln wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:the answer of when to fit a warpstab is clear: NEVER! I am not sure your reply was honest. Sorry but your credibility is in the toilet. you're a noob, I forgive you Not a noob. I started in 2009. Your reputation as a dweeb is now solidified. Don't care if you forgive me. Acting like one though *asks for advice *gets great advice *throws it back in poster's face...
Ugh. Since when is NEVER USE STABS great advice? Don't use stabs if you are out for a PVP fight = that is great advice. |
Cidanel Afuran
Chickenhawk.
237
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 21:22:23 -
[15] - Quote
Kennedy Lincoln wrote:Not a noob. I started in 2009. Your reputation as a dweeb is now solidified. Don't care if you forgive me.
Asking for advice and then s**ting on the people who give you advice isn't the best idea in the world. |
Tiberius Heth
Say No to Features
149
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 21:23:03 -
[16] - Quote
For non-combat fitted ships (haulers, travel fits, data/relic explorers) that can spare 2 (if you're going to use them, use 2) slots without losing too many nanofibers, cargo mods or perhaps armour tank it can make good sense. But as per above, and you seem to understand yourself, they're not a proper tactic to employ.
Safety comes from fast alignment, speed, perhaps cloak/mwd or out smarting or out planning the opponents. What WCS can do is be a last resort kind of thing where if everything went wrong, if you completely messed up, then it might just save your ass... or not. So if you do everything right you won't need them but if you did it wrong it might help, up to you if that's worth 2 low slots.
My haulers run with 2 WCS, just in case. I've never needed them but then I don't need those low slots because they're shield tanked haulers and there's no real point to stacking nanofibers like mad. |
Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
223
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 21:44:38 -
[17] - Quote
Tiberius Heth wrote:For non-combat fitted ships (haulers, travel fits, data/relic explorers) that can spare 2 (if you're going to use them, use 2) slots without losing too many nanofibers, cargo mods or perhaps armour tank it can make good sense. But as per above, and you seem to understand yourself, they're not a proper tactic to employ.
Safety comes from fast alignment, speed, perhaps cloak/mwd or out smarting or out planning the opponents. What WCS can do is be a last resort kind of thing where if everything went wrong, if you completely messed up, then it might just save your ass... or not. So if you do everything right you won't need them but if you did it wrong it might help, up to you if that's worth 2 low slots.
My haulers run with 2 WCS, just in case. I've never needed them but then I don't need those low slots because they're shield tanked haulers and there's no real point to stacking nanofibers like mad.
On those occasions when stabs have saved me, it's always been accompanied by "Whew! I messed that up. Lucky they only got a point on me before I warped!" Only ever consider them a backup to good flying.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1766
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 22:08:05 -
[18] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Chainsaw Plankton is a PVP'er, and if you look at the number of "likes" that he has, he also posts on the forums a lot, and his posts are usually pretty good advice. It would help if he explained his "never", though.
Stabs are bad because:
- Most pirates know how many low slots each ship has, and will definitely have enough people there to warp-jam you despite all your stabs. You sacrifice your armor, resistances, and any chance to fight back (because you can't target-lock worth a damn), and the pirate just brings 2 friends flying cheap frigates, and you're screwed no matter how many stabs you have.
- You sacrifice low slots that can enhance a ship's survivability or effectiveness in order to install the stabs.
- You rely on the stabs, and you make the decision to run before you even undock, no matter what. Even in situations where an aggressive attitude would save you. "Hey, this freaking interceptor has just decloaked and is target-locking me. WTF? His friends must be on the other side of this gate trying to kill us!! Everybody warp away!"
I was watching a tv show and the commercials gave me enough time for the reply given, thank you for expanding on the topic. and these days I hardly pvp, probably because I'm too busy "blah blahing" on the forums.
imo the opportunity cost of fitting stabs is just too high. If warp bubbles and hic points didn't exist then they might be a good idea, but even with just scrams and long points, it gets pretty easy to catch you. One of my favorite ship setups that I've seen was a proteus with two three point scrams, giving it the ability to nearly instalock and catch anything with 5 or less stabs, oh yea, and turn MWDs off. add in faction webs and links, and it has you pretty much screwed at 24km. the 11.5km 3 point scram ends up going to 26.6km with heat + links.
also this is new citizens Q&A so I stand by my answer 100% for the audience in this subforum. I can't do research on the pilot I'm replying to every time, and especially not in here with someone in an npc corp. I will say maybe on a cov ops cloak, interdiction nullified t3, but there it competes with nanos and tank mods. I would guess most of the people dedicated enough to get a decloak on such a travel t3 also have multiple scrams to hold it down. If I really need to move something like that I can just blops it. So even for a more general audience never is probably the right answer.
if you fit to fail...
@ChainsawPlankto
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Kennedy Lincoln
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 23:01:14 -
[19] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Kennedy Lincoln wrote:Not a noob. I started in 2009. Your reputation as a dweeb is now solidified. Don't care if you forgive me. Asking for advice and then s**ting on the people who give you advice isn't the best idea in the world.
Really? I took offense on his reply. |
Kennedy Lincoln
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 23:03:55 -
[20] - Quote
Tiberius Heth wrote:For non-combat fitted ships (haulers, travel fits, data/relic explorers) that can spare 2 (if you're going to use them, use 2) slots without losing too many nanofibers, cargo mods or perhaps armour tank it can make good sense. But as per above, and you seem to understand yourself, they're not a proper tactic to employ.
Safety comes from fast alignment, speed, perhaps cloak/mwd or out smarting or out planning the opponents. What WCS can do is be a last resort kind of thing where if everything went wrong, if you completely messed up, then it might just save your ass... or not. So if you do everything right you won't need them but if you did it wrong it might help, up to you if that's worth 2 low slots.
My haulers run with 2 WCS, just in case. I've never needed them but then I don't need those low slots because they're shield tanked haulers and there's no real point to stacking nanofibers like mad.
This is the type of analysis I was hoping for. You've clearly described the pluses and the minuses on the two options. I thank you! |
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Kennedy Lincoln
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2015.09.23 23:07:45 -
[21] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Memphis Baas wrote:Chainsaw Plankton is a PVP'er, and if you look at the number of "likes" that he has, he also posts on the forums a lot, and his posts are usually pretty good advice. It would help if he explained his "never", though.
Stabs are bad because:
- Most pirates know how many low slots each ship has, and will definitely have enough people there to warp-jam you despite all your stabs. You sacrifice your armor, resistances, and any chance to fight back (because you can't target-lock worth a damn), and the pirate just brings 2 friends flying cheap frigates, and you're screwed no matter how many stabs you have.
- You sacrifice low slots that can enhance a ship's survivability or effectiveness in order to install the stabs.
- You rely on the stabs, and you make the decision to run before you even undock, no matter what. Even in situations where an aggressive attitude would save you. "Hey, this freaking interceptor has just decloaked and is target-locking me. WTF? His friends must be on the other side of this gate trying to kill us!! Everybody warp away!"
I was watching a tv show and the commercials gave me enough time for the reply given, thank you for expanding on the topic. and these days I hardly pvp, probably because I'm too busy "blah blahing" on the forums. imo the opportunity cost of fitting stabs is just too high. If warp bubbles and hic points didn't exist then they might be a good idea, but even with just scrams and long points, it gets pretty easy to catch you. One of my favorite ship setups that I've seen was a proteus with two three point scrams, giving it the ability to nearly instalock and catch anything with 5 or less stabs, oh yea, and turn MWDs off. add in faction webs and links, and it has you pretty much screwed at 24km. the 11.5km 3 point scram ends up going to 26.6km with heat + links. also this is new citizens Q&A so I stand by my answer 100% for the audience in this subforum. I can't do research on the pilot I'm replying to every time, and especially not in here with someone in an npc corp. I will say maybe on a cov ops cloak, interdiction nullified t3, but there it competes with nanos and tank mods. I would guess most of the people dedicated enough to get a decloak on such a travel t3 also have multiple scrams to hold it down. If I really need to move something like that I can just blops it. So even for a more general audience never is probably the right answer. if you fit to fail...
Now that is an excellent post! I thank you for your insight and it gave me ideas in-which to work. Thanks! |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1526
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 00:16:02 -
[22] - Quote
My losec PI alts do not stab their blockade runners but do double stab the Epithals. The double stabs have actually saved Epithals on occasion against solo HACs and solo T3s taking potshots. |
Cidanel Afuran
Chickenhawk.
238
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 00:40:05 -
[23] - Quote
Kennedy Lincoln wrote:Really? I took offense on his reply.
What advice were you looking for us to confirm when making this post?
I can tell you whatever you want to hear. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1483
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 10:59:39 -
[24] - Quote
Kennedy Lincoln wrote: Stabs AREN'T useless against bubbles. I run two stabs in my Diamos and no bubble has stopped me yet. I still can cloak but....I don't want to test this scenario. Thanks for replying!
Why not? If you think stabs and (non covert) cloak are helping much against a camp with bubbles, just test it ... Stabs have zero effect on warp disruption bubbles, whether or not you have fitted them, you can't warp inside a bubble unless you are an interceptor or properly fit Strategic Cruiser.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Tiberius Heth
Say No to Features
157
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 11:38:18 -
[25] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Kennedy Lincoln wrote: Stabs AREN'T useless against bubbles. I run two stabs in my Diamos and no bubble has stopped me yet. I still can cloak but....I don't want to test this scenario. Thanks for replying!
Why not? If you think stabs and (non covert) cloak are helping much against a camp with bubbles, just test it ... Stabs have zero effect on warp disruption bubbles, whether or not you have fitted them, you can't warp inside a bubble unless you are an interceptor or properly fit Strategic Cruiser.
I missed that, Tipa is correct: WCS has no effect on warp bubble behaviour. Just adding to the number of folks stating it for credibility's sake :P |
Kennedy Lincoln
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 12:16:30 -
[26] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Kennedy Lincoln wrote:Really? I took offense on his reply. What advice were you looking for us to confirm when making this post? I can tell you whatever you want to hear.
You seem to think you know it all.
Did you know there are forum rules about butting into a conversation and posting garbage that has nothing to do with the topic of discussion? You are simply trolling and acting like a jerk. Move on troller. Move on. |
Kennedy Lincoln
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 12:20:31 -
[27] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Kennedy Lincoln wrote: Stabs AREN'T useless against bubbles. I run two stabs in my Diamos and no bubble has stopped me yet. I still can cloak but....I don't want to test this scenario. Thanks for replying!
Why not? If you think stabs and (non covert) cloak are helping much against a camp with bubbles, just test it ... Stabs have zero effect on warp disruption bubbles, whether or not you have fitted them, you can't warp inside a bubble unless you are an interceptor or properly fit Strategic Cruiser.
Hmmm... I could have sworn I warped from a bubble with my Diamos last month. It happened so fast I thought I was inside the bubble when I came out of the gate.
I am going to re-read the bubble doc. Maybe I was wrong.
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Kennedy Lincoln
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:22:57 -
[28] - Quote
Tiberius Heth wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Kennedy Lincoln wrote: Stabs AREN'T useless against bubbles. I run two stabs in my Diamos and no bubble has stopped me yet. I still can cloak but....I don't want to test this scenario. Thanks for replying!
Why not? If you think stabs and (non covert) cloak are helping much against a camp with bubbles, just test it ... Stabs have zero effect on warp disruption bubbles, whether or not you have fitted them, you can't warp inside a bubble unless you are an interceptor or properly fit Strategic Cruiser. I missed that, Tipa is correct: WCS has no effect on warp bubble behaviour. Just adding to the number of folks stating it for credibility's sake :P
Ugh. What a bad reply. I might have thought I had warped from a bubble last month but was wrong. Jeessh. What a horrible reply you made. |
Memphis Baas
590
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 13:26:07 -
[29] - Quote
You're the first person in this thread to attack someone, instead of discussing the topic. And then you are replying a lot, fighting attacks with attacks and just making the problem worse rather than calming things down so you can get your information.
So yeah, others are trolls but you're trolling too.
You're not a newbie. You asked for information. But every time you get a reply that you consider "wrong", you attack the poster who gave it. And you're also trying to "manage" the thread.
So I believe you're trolling, rather than honestly looking for info.
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Cidanel Afuran
Chickenhawk.
239
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 13:52:01 -
[30] - Quote
Kennedy Lincoln wrote: You seem to think you know it all.
Did you know there are forum rules about butting into a conversation and posting garbage that has nothing to do with the topic of discussion? You are simply trolling and acting like a jerk. Move on troller. Move on.
Why are you asking question in the new player forum if you aren't a new player and won't take advice?
If you are solo-ing through WHs and null, you are either
1. hunting for targets, in which case stabs are useless 2. doing exploration, in which case someone will either bubble you or bring enough points anyway, so stabs are useless
When you start posting by going on the offensive, don't be surprised when people don't treat you nice. |
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