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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
509
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Posted - 2015.09.24 18:13:27 -
[31] - Quote
my opinion is almost directly opposite:
1. core skills are awesome because they apply to every ship.
2. what needs cutting is the time to train everything else in the game, more ship diversity for every player because it doesnt take 3 years to train up another ship and all its mods.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
208
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Posted - 2015.09.24 18:28:50 -
[32] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:my opinion is almost directly opposite:
1. core skills are awesome because they apply to every ship.
2. what needs cutting is the time to train everything else in the game, more ship diversity for every player because it doesnt take 3 years to train up another ship and all its mods.
show me a switch from one ship to another that requires 3 years to train into? |
Nyu Kaminari
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:17:43 -
[33] - Quote
Leonardo Adami wrote:Who honestly likes training fitting skills? Pretty much no one. We train'em cause we have to.
I propose we remove all fitting skills and tie them into ship training instead.
For example. If you want to have perfect fitting skills for a slicer/hurricane/dominix then you'd have train their repsective ship skill to 5. Which makes sense in my opinion, I put the time in to train minmatar battlecrusier skill to level 5 I should be able to fit hat ship accordingly without have to put several more months into fitting skills.
But wait, fitting skills apply to all ships. I understand that but a newbro won't have access to the range of ships a veteran will. So I still believe this would benefit them.
This will, reduce the amount of time new players have to trian those "not so fun" skills. I believe doing so will help with new player retention and allow them to still progress in game and have the feeling that they're acccomplishjng something without being overly burdened with core fitting skills. Allows players who want to specialize and max their fittings out do so by requiring they have level ship skill trained to level 5. And if your flying specific ships all the time you should probably have that ship skill to five anyway.
If your only argument against this is soemthig along the lines of "I had to train them so should new players I'll consider that an invalid argument and friendly bump. "
If you have them trained CCP could reimburse those skillpoints to players like they did with learning skills.
Thoughts?
I just cannot bring myself to agree with this. It is unrealistic (not saying you want this now) that CCP invests time on something that I am sure 75% + of its population would turn their noses up at. I would also like to bring to the table that a newbro's First year is chaotic regardless; especially because it is their only account and they will likely be trying to train a little bit of everything across the board possibly spreading skill points out evenly. If newbros did manage to skill switch into Willpower + Perception or vise versa for Spaceship command training (T1 and T2's respectively), they would be screwing themselves out of all of the INT + MEM training that is absolutely required let alone the drone skills if they were unfortunate enough to choose Gallente.
It would all leech more time then simply training the fitting skills (most with a very low multiplier) to 4 w/ an even spread. They could then just use the bonus remap to specialize afterwards which I can only hope new players do now. Also I would like to add that each ship they trained into would tunnel them more quickly towards T2's but because this would then be prioritized, the newer players would be lacking a lot of the specialized modules (due to skill focusing), that require Level 4 and 5 training.
Example: Broadsword - Propulsion Jamming 5 / Graviton Physics IV: Requiring Science 5 & POWER GRID MANAGEMENT V.
So you see, it all swings full circle. power grid management 5 is of course included and as you know is a fitting skill. not only a requirement for the ship but for proper use of its modules. once you start taking this stuff away, It disrupts the skill balance of the entire game and actually causes newbros much much more of a problem. That and it strips the requirements for the modules themselves which makes no sense. There are just some games that you have to work hard at and keep playing to earn a sense of accomplishment.
I'd rather spend a few months training core skills then having a damned heart attack every time I get into a new ship and find out I need 2 more remaps...
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Mavros Pete
Abyssos
4
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:41:15 -
[34] - Quote
Once upon a time , learning skills were a must, but got removed because they affected skilling only. Fitting skills affect all ships. You could add them in the base attributes of ships, but then which ones r we talking about, CPU and PG skills? they are easy to skill, not too much hustle. AWU on the other hand takes time to get to 5 and opens up siege module skill .
You newer players have an easy ride if you ask me. No more forgot to upgrade my clone== loss of skills. No more learning skills. No more bs 5 for caps. Even commands are more accessible. Whereas back in the day, EvE was sweeter, cuz of all the risk.
Anyway, fittings skills are nuttin, its a one off training session, then u r good for life.
CCP, Can I Haz My Stuff?
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Eugene Melvin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:48:59 -
[35] - Quote
As a noob, the best training advice I received was "train the fit, not just the ship". So easy, I just load a fitting into EveMon and presto it shows me what I actually need as a training base for the FIT and the ship. Took a bit to get my API figured out for PYFA, but now it works great for me.
I also saw a number of related skills in just about all the fits I want to fly, so it was easy to setup a training plan that covered all the basic fitting skills (CPU and PG mostly).
I see where you are going with the OP, but disagree that it makes anything better for me as a newbro. I like the universal skills that spread across multiple ships and fits, it really helps me train a CLASS of ships. Frigates first... |
Zhaceera Armerarram
World Traders Guild Channel
10
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Posted - 2015.09.24 23:41:56 -
[36] - Quote
Someone who says "what cant you fit without training only core skills" and have the balls to say he is a veteran player, gotta be kidding.
Even in the sheetiest web of fits you have to list the skills needed.
There is a huge difference in flying a battleship you just got the skill to fly, with standard tech I modules and rigs, and someone flying a battleship with lvl 5 skill for it and even fitting the same tech i modules with 1 year worth of skills on many things besides the core skills.
There are some fits you can do only having a given number of skills all to lvl 5.
You cant deny that. That is part of what EVE is. And people who likes some others MMOs have a hard time with that.
Problem is, EVE has no progression, no XP from doing this or that, and no "bonus skill" for kissing the grass of NPCs. So how else could someone make commitment to the game worth something ?
If you like to make marathons of 24h playing to "level up" and get all the "XP" you need to cap level, you are playing the wrong game.
"If justice is not for everyone, it is for no one."
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1597
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Posted - 2015.09.24 23:55:08 -
[37] - Quote
Absolutely horrid idea when training for several types/races of ship. For instance on can currently train ~4 skills for general fitting and get the most out of all but a few ships with special module fitting bonuses tied to them. This is granted regardless of the individual ship skill level, allowing fittings that consume most of the available fitting resources but don't draw on the ships bonuses to be available without much investment into the ship skill. That would no longer be possible as proposed.
Further, needing to max longer ship skills in greater number for the same effect far outweighs the potential gains of the suggestion for ships you want to be effective with but don't necessarily want to train to V. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
543
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Posted - 2015.09.25 02:44:30 -
[38] - Quote
Scanned this so forgive me if this has been covered.
-1
What do you do for a ship like the Myrmidon that can be tanked for shields or armor with near equal effectiveness? Do you tie these support skills to an armor tank because that is more traditional for a Gallente ship? If so you have just removed a very wide array of player choice in how to fit this ship because they will be stuck having to use armor tank.
If you give both sets of support skills to those who are training the Myrm do you give both sets of support skills to all ships?
No matter how you try to twist this it is a bad idea.
New players need to learn how to determine what skills are important to train and to what level they really need to be trained to instead of being handed everything for little or no effort. New players also need to understand that a wide range of support skills trained to level 3 or 4 for the fit you are flying is infinitely more important than training one single skill to level 5 and it often takes very little extra time to do this.
This post represents the real idea behind skill training that all new players need to learn. And if the person behind this character is a true new player and this is not just a new character then he / she has learned this lesson very quickly and it will serve him / her well over their time in EvE.
Eugene Melvin wrote:As a noob, the best training advice I received was "train the fit, not just the ship". So easy, I just load a fitting into EveMon and presto it shows me what I actually need as a training base for the FIT and the ship. Took a bit to get my API figured out for PYFA, but now it works great for me. I also saw a number of related skills in just about all the fits I want to fly, so it was easy to setup a training plan that covered all the basic fitting skills (CPU and PG mostly). I see where you are going with the OP, but disagree that it makes anything better for me as a newbro. I like the universal skills that spread across multiple ships and fits, it really helps me train a CLASS of ships. Frigates first...
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1388
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Posted - 2015.09.25 04:04:46 -
[39] - Quote
Let's remove all SP requirements from all ships and all modules. It would be more balanced if everyone could do everything perfectly from day 0. Having requirements is dumb.
Everything should also be free. It's tedious to aquire isk. |
Zhaceera Armerarram
World Traders Guild Channel
15
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Posted - 2015.09.25 10:51:44 -
[40] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Let's remove all SP requirements from all ships and all modules. It would be more balanced if everyone could do everything perfectly from day 0. Having requirements is dumb.
Everything should also be free. It's tedious to aquire isk.
And like the other topic, every ship should have the same signature radius so a BS can instalock a frigate.
Interceptor is dumb. LOL
"If justice is not for everyone, it is for no one."
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1066
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Posted - 2015.09.25 12:21:45 -
[41] - Quote
yeah CCP plz give skills for free, I'm too lazy to train them all up. |
Tarcq
Bagel
1
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Posted - 2015.09.26 16:25:09 -
[42] - Quote
OP those skills make EVE have some progression and are just like any other skill. This kind of idea would kill part of what makes EVE unique and interesting. You don't have to be logged in to train those skills so I don't see the big problem. If you want to fly a ship well there are these skills to train deeply and master the fitting requirements. It's cool. |
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