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zootei
New Eden Shipwright LLC Dominion Aerospace Systems
0
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Posted - 2015.09.25 15:56:58 -
[1] - Quote
When I attempt to research a t2 veldspar mining crystal bpc from a t1 bpc it tells me the components needed are 2 data cores of one type and 2 of another type. Going on the Jita price, this is approx 500k worth of components. To make things worse, I then have about a 1/3 chance of making the t2 bpc. So on average it's going to cost me 1.5m to make a t2 veldspar mining crystal bpc (1 run). Then once that's done I have to actually make the crystal which is more stuff still.
How is it that people are selling the crystals for 100k at Jita when it costs me 15x that mucch just to make the bpc? I'm obviously missing something. Can someone tell me what please. |
Hochopepa
POS Consultants Group LLC
3
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Posted - 2015.09.25 16:21:35 -
[2] - Quote
You should be getting your datacores for next to nothing from research agents. |
warren Arzi
Evedustry Inc. SONS of BANE
2
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Posted - 2015.09.25 16:27:38 -
[3] - Quote
Hochopepa wrote:You should be getting your datacores for next to nothing from research agents.
Does that make them 'free'? |
zootei
New Eden Shipwright LLC Dominion Aerospace Systems
0
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Posted - 2015.09.25 16:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Then why would anyone bother using 12 datacores to make a bpc for a 100k item when they could sell the 12 datacores for 1500% more. Sorry but that doesnt answer the question. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Northern Coalition.
1814
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Posted - 2015.09.25 16:34:15 -
[5] - Quote
i thiiiink you'll end up with 10 run BPCs as the result of an invention process without decryptors
can't check ingame right now, only online on my phone |
Hochopepa
POS Consultants Group LLC
3
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Posted - 2015.09.25 16:51:38 -
[6] - Quote
Pretty sure you get 10 run BPCs, have to check when I get home though. Last time I looked, they were a negative profit item so they are sitting collecting dust. |
zootei
New Eden Shipwright LLC Dominion Aerospace Systems
0
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Posted - 2015.09.25 16:52:33 -
[7] - Quote
I know that 1 run of a t1 bpo produces 1 crystal. So presumably each run of a t2 bpc produces just 1 crystal too.
If you get a 10 run bpc then that makes more sense, but the mats are still costing you 1.5m on average to make a bpc for items worth 1m. Plus whatever it costs to actually make the 10 crystals.
So the maths is still out. Which could well be the case. The products dont necessarily have to be worth more than the components. I still think I may be missing something.
There is the possibility that the market is skewed by people with t2 bpo's too.
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Hochopepa
POS Consultants Group LLC
3
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Posted - 2015.09.25 16:55:11 -
[8] - Quote
zootei wrote:Then why would anyone bother using 12 datacores to make a bpc for a 100k item when they could sell the 12 datacores for 1500% more. Sorry but that doesnt answer the question.
In any given market, you do have to look at selling those materials for more than the finished product, HOWEVER, not all materials, even though you could get more money, will sell when people are looking for a finished product.
Prime example:
I could sell X amount of T2 component A for 50mil I could sell Y amount of T2 ammunition B for 40 mil
Component A sits on the market for a month and I have to battle others repricing theirs and barely sell them off. T2 ammo A sells almost instantly and I have the money back to reinvest in more product.
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Hochopepa
POS Consultants Group LLC
3
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Posted - 2015.09.25 16:58:22 -
[9] - Quote
zootei wrote:I know that 1 run of a t1 bpo produces 1 crystal. So presumably each run of a t2 bpc produces just 1 crystal too.
If you get a 10 run bpc then that makes more sense, but the mats are still costing you 1.5m on average to make a bpc for items worth 1m. Plus whatever it costs to actually make the 10 crystals.
So the maths is still out. Which could well be the case. The products dont necessarily have to be worth more than the components. I still think I may be missing something.
There is the possibility that the market is skewed by people with t2 bpo's too.
Well, there is also a little bit of that, but considering the quantity of T2 BPOS of that given item, not nearly as much as you'd think. It's more of a reality that, people can be and quite often are, idiots and will sell just to sell not really thinking about how much it cost them to make. It could be that they get the stuff given to them and they cant sell it unless it's a finished product. It could be that someone is effectively attempting to corner a market and push people out of it so they buy up everything, put it back up for a loss price and keep driving people out, then jack up the prices and make a hefty sum quickly before the market corrects. There could be any number of reasons. |
zootei
New Eden Shipwright LLC Dominion Aerospace Systems
0
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Posted - 2015.09.25 17:02:06 -
[10] - Quote
Yes, I suspect you are right that you get 10 runs for 1.5m and people are just selling at an unprofitable price. I can believe 1.5m of components selling for a 1m finished product. 1.5m of components selling for a 100k finished product seemed a bit of a stretch.
Guess I won't be bothering to make t2 crystals. |
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5565
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Posted - 2015.09.25 17:10:23 -
[11] - Quote
Looking at this, I suspect it's BPOs skewing the market.
Each run creates only a single crystal (Each invention run creates a 10 run BPC)
Each crystal sells for around 100,000 isk Materials come in at around 55,000 isk. a successful invention run (max skill, probability included) comes in at 1,068,000 isk, producing a 10 run BPC. Which means you're spending more than the BPC is worth to make it.
Looking at the market history for the forge ( https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/market/link/10000002/18618 ) and the fact a single BPO can produce around 300 a day in a station (or 400 in a pos, if you want to risk it) it'd only take 4 or so BPOs to meet the market demand.
Woo! CSM X!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Hochopepa
POS Consultants Group LLC
3
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Posted - 2015.09.25 17:19:29 -
[12] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Looking at this, I suspect it's BPOs skewing the market. Each run creates only a single crystal (Each invention run creates a 10 run BPC) Each crystal sells for around 100,000 isk Materials come in at around 55,000 isk. a successful invention run (max skill, probability included) comes in at 1,068,000 isk, producing a 10 run BPC. Which means you're spending more than the BPC is worth to make it. Looking at the market history for the forge ( https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/market/link/10000002/18618 ) and the fact a single BPO can produce around 300 a day in a station (or 400 in a pos, if you want to risk it) it'd only take 4 or so BPOs to meet the market demand.
If the BPOs are being used in production, if they are being put on the market and if the users are mass producing them. I'm curious to see the sellers list and how many people are filling the market demand vs how many of them actually have BPOs. |
Hochopepa
POS Consultants Group LLC
3
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Posted - 2015.09.25 17:20:26 -
[13] - Quote
zootei wrote:Yes, I suspect you are right that you get 10 runs for 1.5m and people are just selling at an unprofitable price. I can believe 1.5m of components selling for a 1m finished product. 1.5m of components selling for a 100k finished product seemed a bit of a stretch.
Guess I won't be bothering to make t2 crystals.
There are a HELL of a lot of items on the market that are actually being sold at a "loss". Ships (battleships) are a primary example.
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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Northern Coalition.
1814
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Posted - 2015.09.25 21:57:16 -
[14] - Quote
retards gonna ******. no reason to join their team.
oh, and another thing: datacores nowadays come from LP stores, not from agents. stop giving bad advice please. |
Milla Moonling
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 22:16:34 -
[15] - Quote
Also if you mine etc, your materials are "free" right? |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1258
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Posted - 2015.09.27 15:25:43 -
[16] - Quote
Milla Moonling wrote:Also if you mine etc, your materials are "free" right?
T1 BPO, some fibres and the minerals for RAM/T1 part fit into an interceptor. Producing the things only cause the parts fit into an interceptor or come as indy waste anyhow. Free? - no. But lazy as hell. |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Phoebe Freeport Republic
1666
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Posted - 2015.09.27 16:45:57 -
[17] - Quote
zootei wrote:Yes, I suspect you are right that you get 10 runs for 1.5m and people are just selling at an unprofitable price. I can believe 1.5m of components selling for a 1m finished product. 1.5m of components selling for a 100k finished product seemed a bit of a stretch.
Guess I won't be bothering to make t2 crystals. Use the app in my signature in the future if you want to see some more details to the prices. Looks like only Crokite crystals are profitable right now.
GÇ£Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do. GÇ¥ - Dale Carnegie
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!
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Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising The Bastion
1453
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Posted - 2015.09.28 01:53:41 -
[18] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:oh, and another thing: datacores nowadays come from LP stores, not from agents. stop giving bad advice please.
Seriously? Wow! It *has* been a while since I have sent any of my guys on a datacore gathering run. Looks like I'd better do that and see what has changed there. Hopefully the accrued research-points, or whatever they were called, somehow rolled over to this new system.
I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder.
Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread
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Sabriz Adoudel
Black Hydra Consortium.
5374
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Posted - 2015.09.28 01:57:06 -
[19] - Quote
Substantia Nigra wrote:Gilbaron wrote:oh, and another thing: datacores nowadays come from LP stores, not from agents. stop giving bad advice please. Seriously? Wow! It *has* been a while since I have sent any of my guys on a datacore gathering run. Looks like I'd better do that and see what has changed there. Hopefully the accrued research-points, or whatever they were called, somehow rolled over to this new system.
Old research points can still be used (and the system is still fully functional) but the ISK cost is higher. It's only worth using them if the datacore spikes to 150k or higher.
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5410
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Posted - 2015.09.28 04:55:03 -
[20] - Quote
Mining laser crystals have been dominated by T2 BPOs even when I started nearly 7 years ago.
It is just a market where there isn't sufficient demand to outpace T2 BPO production.
When that happens in any market, invention thrives. Look for other items with high demand.
EDIT: Been there. Done That. Then I thought, "What items do everybody use? What items do people fit more of one to a ship? What items require replacement?" That gave me a list of items to investigate. |
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Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
1045
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Posted - 2015.09.29 09:32:05 -
[21] - Quote
Zifrian wrote: Use the app in my signature in the future if you want to see some more details to the prices. Looks like only Crokite crystals are profitable right now.
I tried it some time ago but holy hell that sure needs an instruction manual.... Or at least I do...
Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20.
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Pronoes
The Volition Cult
4
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Posted - 2015.10.05 09:50:21 -
[22] - Quote
Traditionally crystals have always been a poor invention choice. T2 BPO's dominate. There are other items which often result in a net loss. Take a look at (T2) Torpedoes, Shield Boosters, Resistance Plating & Armour Plates for more examples of this, as well as numerous ships, but I suspect that's more to do with PI mats are free!!
Idiot A Mined Mineral x 10k = Free Hull Structure x 1 = 5m Ship sells at 6m OMG I CAN MAKE 1M PROFITZ!
Shrewd Dude A Mined Mineral x 10k = 3m Hull Structure x 1 = 5m Ship sells at 6m. OMG SCREW MAKING STUFFS - SELL THE MINERALS FOR 3M PROFIT
Shrewd Dude B Lol mining.... |
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