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Valacus
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
0
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Posted - 2015.09.28 18:53:50 -
[1] - Quote
Less than half the scan resolution of the Redeemer, less than half the damage, nowhere near the tank, it's just... uhg. Yes, ECM has the potential to be overpowered, but given that blops fleets are all about blap and run anyways, why would anyone ever fly a Widow? The Redeemers would alpha everything before you even got a lock. You wouldn't be jamming crap. It's the red headed step child that has to fit the portal so that everyone else can jump in and get kills while it stays home and cries itself to sleep. Why is the Widow allowed to be so bad? |
Davir Sometaww
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
48
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Posted - 2015.09.28 20:28:03 -
[2] - Quote
Its mainly a support vessel.
Good for getting out of sticky situations or added insurance to black op drops. |
Arla Sarain
661
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Posted - 2015.09.28 20:46:22 -
[3] - Quote
But it can get high DPS for the projection that comes with it if you forgo ECM.
I mean if you limit yourself to the belief that Widow is an ECM boat alone, you will no doubt find it underwhelming seeing as how RNG ECM is. Putting a 1bil ship at the mercy of RNG doesn't seem like a clever idea anyhow.
Recent vids by The Honorable Third Party showed no ECM widows, and a corp member who flew BLOPs frequently noted that his group used cruise Widows in favour of ECM Widows too. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
1061
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Posted - 2015.09.28 21:08:51 -
[4] - Quote
My Widow is setup for anti support work.
Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.
I invented Tiericide
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1260
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Posted - 2015.09.28 21:21:59 -
[5] - Quote
Widow damage cold. Comes fully selectable. Such bad. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
119
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Posted - 2015.09.29 04:10:49 -
[6] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:But it can get high DPS for the projection that comes with it if you forgo ECM.
I mean if you limit yourself to the belief that Widow is an ECM boat alone, you will no doubt find it underwhelming seeing as how RNG ECM is. Putting a 1bil ship at the mercy of RNG doesn't seem like a clever idea anyhow.
Recent vids by The Honorable Third Party showed no ECM widows, and a corp member who flew BLOPs frequently noted that his group used cruise Widows in favour of ECM Widows too.
So the ECM bonus on the Widow is worthless? |
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
187
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Posted - 2015.09.29 04:44:13 -
[7] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:So the ECM bonus on the Widow is worthless?
Not by a long shot.
The point here is: there's more than one way to fit a Widow.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
368
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Posted - 2015.09.29 09:07:11 -
[8] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Widow damage cold. Comes fully selectable. Such bad. How much bling in that fit?
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
199
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Posted - 2015.09.29 10:51:31 -
[9] - Quote
There's pretty much only one way to fit a redeemer. There are many ways to fit a widow.
ECM is not the only option. Though it IS powerful in certain settings (not really typical for blops). I.e. warlords/hydra have a very strong widow setup for AT. Also widow was by far the most banned ship in Singularity League after AL1 team showed what it's capable of (though worlds collide rules, particulary team sizes played to the widow strength there). And of course it was the only blops used for tourneys. Other blops are pretty much cloaky weaker T1 counterparts, while widow is unique in a good and useful way.
If you forgo ECM, with the generous amount of mids you can get a very strong active local tank, or a good buffer, and the DPS is nothing to sneeze at. Especially considering the projection and no damage type lock. For raw numbers you can hit 1K DPS cold with fury torps, CN BCs and implants (utility is debatable, but I imagine a ratting carrier would feel it).
A blops plex ratting widow is also nice if you don't want to bother with RR sins. It can do 700+ DPS with furies out to 150km and 600+ with faction out to 200+. Which pretty much eliminates the need in any tank and bling beyond T2 missile rigs and faction ballistic computers. Standard crash and precision cruises are enough to not be bothered by elite frigs.
It's also one of the sexiest ships in the game. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1261
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Posted - 2015.09.29 11:17:43 -
[10] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:Widow damage cold. Comes fully selectable. Such bad. How much bling in that fit?
2 faction BCS and 2 3%-hardwirings. Roughly 220mil I guess, but CPU was a bit tight to start with. |
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Valacus
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
0
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Posted - 2015.09.29 13:30:08 -
[11] - Quote
Torgeir Hekard wrote:There's pretty much only one way to fit a redeemer. There are many ways to fit a widow.
ECM is not the only option. Though it IS powerful in certain settings (not really typical for blops). I.e. warlords/hydra have a very strong widow setup for AT. Also widow was by far the most banned ship in Singularity League after AL1 team showed what it's capable of (though worlds collide rules, particulary team sizes played to the widow strength there). And of course it was the only blops used for tourneys. Other blops are pretty much cloaky weaker T1 counterparts, while widow is unique in a good and useful way.
If you forgo ECM, with the generous amount of mids you can get a very strong active local tank, or a good buffer, and the DPS is nothing to sneeze at. Especially considering the projection and no damage type lock. For raw numbers you can hit 1K DPS cold with fury torps, CN BCs and implants (utility is debatable, but I imagine a ratting carrier would feel it).
A blops plex ratting widow is also nice if you don't want to bother with RR sins. It can do 700+ DPS with furies out to 150km and 600+ with faction out to 200+. Which pretty much eliminates the need in any tank and bling beyond T2 missile rigs and faction ballistic computers. Standard crash and precision cruises are enough to not be bothered by elite frigs.
It's also one of the sexiest ships in the game.
Still doesn't excuse the abysmally long lock time. The Widow has a terrible scan resolution, even for a battleship. Add your cloak and it's worse. It's still terrible when compared to the better blops. |
Janeway84
Def Squadron Pride Before Fall
177
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Posted - 2015.09.29 13:31:52 -
[12] - Quote
Can the Widow bridge itself or other black ops to a cyno or does it have to be cov op cyno? Like how many Blops ships can it bridge? |
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
91
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Posted - 2015.09.29 13:51:26 -
[13] - Quote
Janeway84 wrote:Can the Widow bridge itself or other black ops to a cyno or does it have to be cov op cyno? Like how many Blops ships can it bridge?
It cant bridge Blops but it can bridge anything with cov ops cloack, Blops jump while the support fleet is bridged. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1262
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Posted - 2015.09.29 14:53:36 -
[14] - Quote
Janeway84 wrote:Can the Widow bridge itself or other black ops to a cyno or does it have to be cov op cyno? Like how many Blops ships can it bridge?
Depends on the bridged ships' mass. Fuel is consumed accordingly to range and mass, so if you're planning to bridge some T3s, better take a prowler full of fuel along. You can keep refueling while bridging. |
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising The Bastion
1456
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Posted - 2015.10.01 22:36:20 -
[15] - Quote
Interesting thread. IGÇÖm heading out for some semi-solo* hunting of inattentive ratting-carriers and have been debating my BLOPS choice. My BLOPs-guy can fly them all and has high-end support skills in all weapon and electronics combat systems. IGÇÖd been planning to use the panther but had built myself a widow so was also thinking of trying it instead.
My fleet was going to be a hunter strat cruiser (probably a tanked-up scram-fit tengu but still umming and arrring on that), a BLOPs (likely panther or mebbe widow), and a recon (probably an emergency backup, plan B, sacrificial falcon). My widow thinking had it using torps, local shield-tanked, and possibly with a single multi or amarr jammer.
Gonna keep an eye on this thread to see if any more useful thinking deposits itself here. Thanks all.
* A small group of characters controlled by one player.
I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder.
Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
14053
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Posted - 2015.10.02 01:34:36 -
[16] - Quote
suck so bad... like this??
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Valacus
Shattered Silver
0
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Posted - 2015.10.02 20:47:57 -
[17] - Quote
Substantia Nigra wrote:Interesting thread. IGÇÖm heading out for some semi-solo* hunting of inattentive ratting-carriers and have been debating my BLOPS choice. My BLOPs-guy can fly them all and has high-end support skills in all weapon and electronics combat systems. IGÇÖd been planning to use the panther but had built myself a widow so was also thinking of trying it instead.
My fleet was going to be a hunter strat cruiser (probably a tanked-up scram-fit tengu but still umming and arrring on that), a BLOPs (likely panther or mebbe widow), and a recon (probably an emergency backup, plan B, sacrificial falcon). My widow thinking had it using torps, local shield-tanked, and possibly with a single multi or amarr jammer.
Gonna keep an eye on this thread to see if any more useful thinking deposits itself here. Thanks all.
* A small group of characters controlled by one player.
I'd advice against the Widow if you can fly something else. Almost every fit posted here used all 8 mids for tank/prop and not a one for ECM, so it has a wasted bonus that's just sort of meh. The Panther is also faster and doesn't take 'til Christ returns to lock. |
Thron Legacy
White Zulu Scorpion Federation
21
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Posted - 2015.10.02 21:17:05 -
[18] - Quote
widow scan res is not the worst Use 1 med for omniracial ECM and rest for tank/tackle win |
Soldarius
Naliao Inc. Test Alliance Please Ignore
1381
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Posted - 2015.10.04 19:02:32 -
[19] - Quote
Widow is entirely capable of not only throwing out over 1k dps, but permajamming a target ships at the same time. ECM tank.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Valacus
Shattered Silver
0
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Posted - 2015.10.04 19:43:30 -
[20] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Widow is entirely capable of not only throwing out over 1k dps, but permajamming a target ships at the same time. ECM tank.
That's great for a 1v1, but who solos in something as expensive as a Widow? Especially with how fragile it would be with ECM tank, any reinforcements or surprise gang show ups would equal a shiny loss mail. Blops fleets are not about ECM wars, soloing, or permajamming. They're about blap and GTFO. The Widow does that exceptionally poorly compared to virtually all of its counterparts. Everyone else specializes in damage while the Widow specializes in ECM, but it's too expensive to use in any fleet in need of ECM because long drawn out engagements = dead Widows. No one in their right mind isn't going to primary that ship. |
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Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising The Bastion
1458
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Posted - 2015.10.04 22:16:36 -
[21] - Quote
Another view on BLOPS BSs - https://www.themittani.com/features/delving-new-black-ops?nopaging=1
I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder.
Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread
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Oxide Ammar
216
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Posted - 2015.10.05 07:08:25 -
[22] - Quote
Falcon do the same job in less than half of window price, so if you are planning to hotdrop a target falcon will be more suitable.
Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2104
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Posted - 2015.10.05 09:05:12 -
[23] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:Widow damage cold. Comes fully selectable. Such bad. How much bling in that fit? 2 faction BCS and 2 3%-hardwirings. Roughly 220mil I guess, but CPU was a bit tight to start with. Edited for task.
Come now, rage torps.....they're right up there with puprple crap for paper DPS-padding. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1274
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Posted - 2015.10.05 11:47:05 -
[24] - Quote
You get a bomber or other hunter with a scram/web to light a cyno next to the target, and full damage from 310m / 90m/s covers all ratting BS and up <.<
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2106
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Posted - 2015.10.05 13:02:58 -
[25] - Quote
Ah so you're one of these rare people who don't drop onto cruisers |
Valacus
Shattered Silver
1
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Posted - 2015.10.08 16:32:51 -
[26] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Ah so you're one of these rare people who don't drop onto cruisers
Torpedoes in general have become a useless weapon suited only for POS bashing and capital killing. Even the T1 explosions are bigger and slower than most battleships, so you can't even apply full DPS to ships of the same class, never mind you're already waiting several seconds for your volley damage to apply while everyone else was click and done. Rapid heavies may take forever to reload, but at least you can count on doing full damage to wide variety of targets with minimal weapon mods, so you don't have to sacrifice your tank or utility, and the missiles are several orders of magnitude faster than torps, so the wait time between module activation and damage application is shorter. Even cruise missiles apply damage well to cruisers, and they haul. Torps are like scarabs in Starcraft when they get hung up on a piece of terrain or stuck on one unit while trying to get to another. |
Celise Katelo
State War Academy Caldari State
139
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Posted - 2015.10.15 12:52:07 -
[27] - Quote
The Widow was used in this years Alliance Tournment, even in the Finals bracket
EVEBoard ...Just over 26million skill points, each skill was chosen for a reason. I closed my eyes & clicked another skill to train... "BINGO...!!!" ... "This time i got something usefull"
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Valacus
Shattered Silver
1
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:59:42 -
[28] - Quote
Celise Katelo wrote:The Widow was used in this years Alliance Tournment, even in the Finals bracket
Why does everyone bring this up? The Alliance Tournament is almost a completely different game than EVE Online. It's not playing EVE Online at all. It resembles EVE only in core mechanics. It's an EVE mod made from EVE's game engine. You don't care about ISK lost in an AT fight, only that you blow up all of them before they blow up all of you. ISK ratios are irrelevant. That ain't true in the real world, where losing 1 Widow makes a bigger ISK dent than losing an entire fleet of T1, even entire fleets of some T2. You aren't concerned as much about lock time in the AT because people aren't going to be warping off. Unless it blows up before you can lock it, in which case you never cared about in the first place, you will lock it eventually unless their ewar beats you to the punch. In the really real world, things warp away. In the really real world, I'd like to actually be on the kill mails, so even if something isn't a threat to me, I'd still like to at least lock it and hit it with something so I get credit. IN the really real world, BLOPs aren't used for ewar. Every other BLOPs ship gets damage bonuses. The Widow, mysteriously, gets an ewar bonus and the slowest lock time known to sub-caps. In the really real world, the Widow sucks. And in the really real world, I'm not in any danger of ever participating in the AT in a Widow, and neither are most of you. I really don't care how it does in the AT. That is the stupidest argument for a ship. |
Velarra
448
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:23:36 -
[29] - Quote
Valacus wrote:Celise Katelo wrote:The Widow was used in this years Alliance Tournment, even in the Finals bracket In the really real world, things warp away..
You mean, Eve is really real?! |
Hiyora Akachi
Perkone Caldari State
232
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Posted - 2015.10.16 23:16:04 -
[30] - Quote
Valacus wrote:Celise Katelo wrote:The Widow was used in this years Alliance Tournment, even in the Finals bracket In the really real world, things warp away.
How **** is your tackle. |
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