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Vollhov
Senators of Eridan Red Alliance
262
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Posted - 2015.09.30 11:03:20 -
[31] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/THQz2QU.gif
Thanks you -í-íP Falcon"that helped to quit EVE"
Jamyl the Great
CCP can never come up with such a character as Jamyl Sarum.
No love of the the project and imagination.
They can only cross out all.
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Nakito Kobara
Yamagata Syndicate Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
50
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Posted - 2015.09.30 11:08:12 -
[32] - Quote
Quite disturbing that Wirykomi security is in a state that allows this to happen.
I shall be contacting the relevant authorities with an offer of consultancy in this matter with our specialists.
Yamagata Syndicate - Caldari State Faction Warfare, PvE, PvP. Join today!
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1469
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Posted - 2015.09.30 14:51:26 -
[33] - Quote
Have you terribly much experience in securing supercapitals, then? |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
7627
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Posted - 2015.09.30 15:29:22 -
[34] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:
At this point, we have no evidence for the Guristas, either, except that Wiyrkomi and the Caldari Navy have given that name to the Scope.
Except for, you know, the gaggle of Taipan that entered the ship's hangar with a boarding crew.
Arrendis wrote:Have you terribly much experience in securing supercapitals, then?
The Enforcement Directive has some experience; not something usually paraded around in the warzone, for obvious reasons.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Alizabeth Vea
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
600
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Posted - 2015.09.30 15:48:41 -
[35] - Quote
Someone was cutting corners. SOP is to get the relief crew fully aboard and left seat, right seat it for a bit with the current crew. They make sure everything is set and that the relief crew knows any issues that might need to be taken care of. At least, that's how we did RIPs back when I was a CalNav Marine.
Women Gamers of EVE moderator: a place for women to gather in a male dominated EVE Online.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1470
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Posted - 2015.09.30 16:07:23 -
[36] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:The Enforcement Directive has some experience; not something usually paraded around in the warzone, for obvious reasons.
More, or less than Caldari Navy, do you think? |
Nakito Kobara
Yamagata Syndicate Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
50
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Posted - 2015.09.30 16:47:26 -
[37] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Have you terribly much experience in securing supercapitals, then?
If that ever becomes any your business (which I seriously doubt)... I'll let you know the answer to that.
Yamagata Syndicate - Caldari State Faction Warfare, PvE, PvP. Join today!
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1470
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Posted - 2015.09.30 17:29:17 -
[38] - Quote
Now now, no need to get all touchy about things. It was simply a matter of professional curiosity, from a member of an organization with a long history of operating supercapitals. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
7628
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Posted - 2015.09.30 18:42:26 -
[39] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:The Enforcement Directive has some experience; not something usually paraded around in the warzone, for obvious reasons. More, or less than Caldari Navy, do you think?
Considering the Navy's recent history of capital ship theft, including supercapitals, I'd be inclined to say that while the Navy has a great deal of experience, it appears to have some serious operational deficiencies. A rigorous review of security procedures seems advisable.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Louella Dougans
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
233
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Posted - 2015.09.30 18:46:11 -
[40] - Quote
I didn't know that was how you pronounced Wiyrkomi.
But now I do.
Be a Space Nun, it is fun. \o/
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Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
251
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Posted - 2015.09.30 19:10:17 -
[41] - Quote
Louella Dougans wrote:I didn't know that was how you pronounced Wiyrkomi.
But now I do.
That man says things oddly sometimes. Better to not use him as a pronunciation reference.
"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13
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Silvox Lunae
EVE University Ivy League
46
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Posted - 2015.10.02 15:20:24 -
[42] - Quote
As a benefactor and past affiliate citizen of Sukuuvestaa, I am disappointed in Wiyrkomi's Peace Corps' consistently sub par track record. This loss of life and assets only further cements their inability to safeguard their citizens and vessels. |
Zavier Dessaultnier
Echelon Mirage
2
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Posted - 2015.10.03 10:05:59 -
[43] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Zavier Dessaultnier wrote:The Guristas with the Gecko have shown they have been able to redesign and deploy a new class of fighter based off what is I think is the Caldari Dragonfly class. Gecko's a superheavy drone, not a fighter. 50 cubic meters of volume instead of 4,000m3. Also, no crew (fighters have pilots).
I was only noting the exact aesthetic and dimensional similarities between a Gecko and a Dragonfly when they are fully assembled.
If so, the ability to turn a manned fighter that requires 4,000m3 of shipboard space that can only be deployed by a large capital ship like a carrier to into an unmanned superheavy drone that only requires 50m3 of shipboard space so that it can be deployed by a sub-capital vessel does not to me disqualify my statement that it appears the Guristas were able to redesign the Dragonfly with new technology and capabilities as displayed in the Gecko.
Pedantry over specific terminology aside, I suppose I should have been more specific in my conjecture. I believe Lai Dai in conjunction with Carthum Conglomerate may have potentially developed new technology related to fighter or fighter-bomber design and the Guristas were able to get their hands on these prototypes. And that the Antero was stolen not because of some propaganda of the deed type stunt, or for the value in the hull itself, but because it was being specifically refitted with the command and control architecture for those prototypes.
Is it a leap of suppositions? Yes, quite so, but in a discussion that has already entertained conspiracies of false-flag attacks and the like I thought well, why not, it's just the fun and games of speculation after all.
You can speculate anything you want on the event, really. Maybe it's just as simple as an ambitious Wiyrkomi executive seeking to shame their superior into taking the tea for their failure, or just incompetence. And that the theft of the Antero and the attack on LD-75 remain both isolated incidents without a causal connection. |
James Syagrius
Reclamation Technologies
1104
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Posted - 2015.10.04 00:34:06 -
[44] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I'll put the kettle on, shall I Wiyrkomi?
This is not what Sobaseki would have expected of you. Regardless of how, itGÇÖs the why that interests me.
Many salient points have been made, but none the less it is an interesting choice.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
5660
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Posted - 2015.10.04 02:14:21 -
[45] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I'll put the kettle on, shall I Wiyrkomi?
This is not what Sobaseki would have expected of you. Regardless of how, itGÇÖs the why that interests me. Many salient points have been made, but none the less it is an interesting choice.
I think it's not terribly out of character for professional thieves to thieve something?
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
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James Syagrius
Reclamation Technologies
1104
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Posted - 2015.10.04 04:00:17 -
[46] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:James Syagrius wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I'll put the kettle on, shall I Wiyrkomi?
This is not what Sobaseki would have expected of you. Regardless of how, itGÇÖs the why that interests me. Many salient points have been made, but none the less it is an interesting choice. I think it's not terribly out of character for professional thieves to thieve something? Indeed so, but such a mundane thing?
I think, knowing something of the mind of thieves, that in this it is more about the act than the thing.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
5661
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Posted - 2015.10.04 05:02:53 -
[47] - Quote
I don't know about you, but I'm exceedingly happy when I share the killmail on a carrier - to actually get one as loot?
It's not all that mundane a prize.
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
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Silvox Lunae
EVE University Ivy League
47
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Posted - 2015.10.05 14:51:07 -
[48] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:
Indeed so, but such a mundane thing?
I think, knowing something of the mind of thieves, that in this it is more about the act than the thing.
Given that the Guristas operate an extensive research division within their ranks with the goal of producing profitable results, it would not surprise me if they plan on creating their own adjustments on Navy ships for their own class of carrier to supplement their deep space operations. However, I doubt a Wiyrkomi carrier will be of much use to them unless they selected Wiyrkomi solely on how simple it would be to steal from them compared to any of the other megacorporations. |
Rook Moray
Cell 13 Salvage
47
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Posted - 2015.10.05 17:58:27 -
[49] - Quote
Silvox Lunae wrote:James Syagrius wrote:
Indeed so, but such a mundane thing?
I think, knowing something of the mind of thieves, that in this it is more about the act than the thing.
Given that the Guristas operate an extensive research division within their ranks with the goal of producing profitable results, it would not surprise me if they plan on creating their own adjustments on Navy ships for their own class of carrier to supplement their deep space operations. However, I doubt a Wiyrkomi carrier will be of much use to them unless they selected Wiyrkomi solely on how simple it would be to steal from them compared to any of the other megacorporations.
Why?
Because it was there.
Don't undock what you can't afford to lose.
GÇ£When you want to know how things really work, study them when they're coming apart.GÇ¥ -Guristas Proverb.
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Silvox Lunae
EVE University Ivy League
47
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Posted - 2015.10.06 16:57:30 -
[50] - Quote
Rook Moray wrote:Silvox Lunae wrote:James Syagrius wrote:
Indeed so, but such a mundane thing?
I think, knowing something of the mind of thieves, that in this it is more about the act than the thing.
Given that the Guristas operate an extensive research division within their ranks with the goal of producing profitable results, it would not surprise me if they plan on creating their own adjustments on Navy ships for their own class of carrier to supplement their deep space operations. However, I doubt a Wiyrkomi carrier will be of much use to them unless they selected Wiyrkomi solely on how simple it would be to steal from them compared to any of the other megacorporations. Why? Because it was there. Don't undock what you can't afford to lose.
The joke was that Wiyrkomi's gross incompetence has left the Guristas with a poorly maintained, sub-standard performance super carrier, and that the Guristas chose them as an easier target than say an actually competent security force. With Wiyrkomi's consistent security failures and a reputation at the Haadoken Summit, their security force's reputation within the State is poor at best. |
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Rook Moray
Cell 13 Salvage
51
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Posted - 2015.10.06 17:07:20 -
[51] - Quote
Silvox Lunae wrote:The joke was that Wiyrkomi's gross incompetence has left the Guristas with a poorly maintained, sub-standard performance super carrier, and that the Guristas chose them as an easier target than say an actually competent security force. With Wiyrkomi's consistent security failures and a reputation at the Haadoken Summit, their security force's reputation within the State is poor at best.
I like how the party line in the State is that Wiyrkomi security was just that bad.
It's like you can't wrap your head around the concept of the Guristas being just that good.
It's kinda adorable. Keep it up.
GÇ£When you want to know how things really work, study them when they're coming apart.GÇ¥ -Guristas Proverb.
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
5671
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Posted - 2015.10.06 18:05:53 -
[52] - Quote
Rook Moray wrote:Silvox Lunae wrote:The joke was that Wiyrkomi's gross incompetence has left the Guristas with a poorly maintained, sub-standard performance super carrier, and that the Guristas chose them as an easier target than say an actually competent security force. With Wiyrkomi's consistent security failures and a reputation at the Haadoken Summit, their security force's reputation within the State is poor at best. I like how the party line in the State is that Wiyrkomi security was just that bad. It's like you can't wrap your head around the concept of the Guristas being just that good. It's kinda adorable. Keep it up.
It was an impressive heist. There.
It also shouldn't have happened and could have been stopped. It wasn't. Someone probably wound up drinking the tea for it.
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1500
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Posted - 2015.10.06 18:52:15 -
[53] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:It was an impressive heist. There.
It also shouldn't have happened and could have been stopped. It wasn't. Someone probably wound up drinking the tea for it.
Once they had control of the ship, stopping the escape would've been difficult at best. Given the fairly low utility for Heavy Interdictors in State-controlled space, I highly doubt any megacorp maintains even an average of one on standby in each station they own. I may well have more Onyxes in my hangar in YA0 than Wiyrkomi maintains in that constellation. Without a HIC immediately available, about the only way to have prevented the Antero from escaping would have been cynoing in a ghostrider to the State's beacon in-system and hoping it got into warp quickly enough. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
5672
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Posted - 2015.10.06 21:38:51 -
[54] - Quote
You can prevent it from escaping by keeping the bloody locks secure. I agree that once you've lost control of it and they've got a capsuleer or a bridge crew in situ then stopping it becomes orders of magnitude harder. Especially if the damn thing is basically sat idling in the hangar or alongside the station.
It should not have been possible for the Gurista to have done so. It is somebody specifics job to prevent them from having done so. That person failed in their job and an inquiry should be launched to work out whether the fault lies with Wiyrkomi SOPs or that individual's implementation of those SOPs.
Which outcome the inquiry rules will determine who is at fault and where the blame goes.
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1503
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Posted - 2015.10.06 22:25:22 -
[55] - Quote
Oh, agreed. And really, any time a supercapital's in refit, I'd expect Heavy Interdictors on-post at all times. It's a particularly vulnerable situation for the ship being refit - especially if for some insane reason, it's not inside a tower's forcefield - and let's face it, there's plenty of people willing to come into lowsec with their own supercapitals to kill it. The only way to pin down those potential hostiles... is those HICs.
But before that point, you're looking at a social hack. The systems didn't fail here - assuming they did just shifts responsibility for the failure off to the people who designed the procedures or the electronic safety measures. Both of those should have had redundancies. The simplest solution to this problem is to find someone willing to be compromised for the right amount of ISK and favors.
And for the smart pirate, that person was probably handed an escape clause. Like being on the carrier. And they probably didn't live past the first jump. |
James Syagrius
Reclamation Technologies
1104
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Posted - 2015.10.06 22:43:26 -
[56] - Quote
Silvox Lunae wrote:James Syagrius wrote: Indeed so, but such a mundane thing? I think, knowing something of the mind of thieves, that in this it is more about the act than the thing.
Given that the Guristas operate an extensive research division within their ranks with the goal of producing profitable results, it would not surprise me if they plan on creating their own adjustments on Navy ships for their own class of carrier to supplement their deep space operations. However, I doubt a Wiyrkomi carrier will be of much use to them unless they selected Wiyrkomi solely on how simple it would be to steal from them compared to any of the other megacorporations. Msr. Silvox, thank you for your kind reply.
I agree with your assessment and perhaps even your conclusion.
But the manner of the acquisition... is what interests me.
Rook Moray wrote: Why? Because it was there. Don't undock what you can't afford to lose.
Regretfully I must disagree with your assessment that sheer bravado was the motivation for this particularGǪ acquisition.
As to affordability, I doubt for either organization that is or was an issue.
But forgive me, I try to avoid politics these days, especially of the State variety.
Someone closer to the occurrence has given me further insight, so I wonGÇÖt trouble you further.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
5673
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Posted - 2015.10.07 17:35:49 -
[57] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Oh, agreed. And really, any time a supercapital's in refit, I'd expect Heavy Interdictors on-post at all times. It's a particularly vulnerable situation for the ship being refit - especially if for some insane reason, it's not inside a tower's forcefield - and let's face it, there's plenty of people willing to come into lowsec with their own supercapitals to kill it. The only way to pin down those potential hostiles... is those HICs.
But before that point, you're looking at a social hack. The systems didn't fail here - assuming they did just shifts responsibility for the failure off to the people who designed the procedures or the electronic safety measures. Both of those should have had redundancies. The simplest solution to this problem is to find someone willing to be compromised for the right amount of ISK and favors.
And for the smart pirate, that person was probably handed an escape clause. Like being on the carrier. And they probably didn't live past the first jump.
You make a lot of sense here and I think your assessment of how this heist occurred is probably on the money. The problem is that there's a tendency to romanticise the Gurista in certain parts of Caldari society and their reputation of being "Like us only a little looser around the edges" can be quite attractive to those who are experiencing a roadblock in their career or unfilled aspects of their social lives.
It happens.
Still, just because the electronic systems can't be blamed doesn't mean there isn't SOMEONE at SOME level who didn't **** up. There's a supervisor or a manager or an executive who didn't notice this tyuii had gone rotten. There's a subordinate who wasn't watching his superior or a peer who hasn't been norming his workmates. The only question remains - was it a systemic failure, a failure of the system as a whole or was it a failure of an individual or a group of individuals to adhere to the procedures that are meant to watch out for such things?
You're probably right when you say that it was a number of individuals who were compromised - and that they probably fled from Wiyrkomi with the Gurista and that, most likely, most of them are already exploring new opportunities in the field of 'frozen space debris'.
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
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Wendrika Hydreiga
471
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Posted - 2015.10.07 18:54:43 -
[58] - Quote
It's a pity the carrier didn't reach Venal. Mister Kosakami would do a great job transforming that carrier and its enhanced fighter drones into a Super Guristas Carrier. We would call it, the Iguana!
Sigh... A Guristas person like me can dream, right? |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1504
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Posted - 2015.10.07 19:02:01 -
[59] - Quote
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:It's a pity the carrier didn't reach Venal. Mister Kosakami would do a great job transforming that carrier and its enhanced fighter drones into a Super Guristas Carrier. We would call it, the Iguana!
Sigh... A Guristas person like me can dream, right?
Iguana? Really? I think the Komodo would've been a far better name.
Though, again, if Rabbit wants a supercarrier to redesign, I'm sure we could be convinced to provide the base hull and copies of the blueprints, in exchange for reciprocation when the project reaches the production stage. Or perhaps a single BPO. Theta could likely be convinced to temporarily scale back pirate-hunting activities in Deklein for that. |
Wendrika Hydreiga
471
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Posted - 2015.10.07 20:22:44 -
[60] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Iguana? Really? I think the Komodo would've been a far better name.
Though, again, if Rabbit wants a supercarrier to redesign, I'm sure we could be convinced to provide the base hull and copies of the blueprints, in exchange for reciprocation when the project reaches the production stage. Or perhaps a single BPO. Theta could likely be convinced to temporarily scale back pirate-hunting activities in Deklein for that.
Wow Miss Arrendis! Komodo does sound like a better name! It's like a Drake only more venemous sounding!
Mister Kosakami is super nice, unlike certain Sansha jerks and their horrible carrier. Remember that one time when he gave everyone a ton of Geckos? That was amazing for everyone involved and it wasn't even yuletide season! I'm sure he will make his own line of carrier easy to procure to anyone who gives the Dread Guristas a helping hand!
That or you folks can just browbeat some eggheads in a Guristas complex and see if they cough up the goods. That works too! |
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