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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4130
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Posted - 2015.09.30 12:06:30 -
[1] - Quote
Hey people,
We have started to gather metrics on the usage of the IGB JS callbacks. You can see the first 24 hours of this here: https://imgur.com/a/DtJSj
The first few hours are actually blank as we were fixing something after DT with our metrics intake.
I will of course let this run for a while longer before making any decisions but I thought these were both interesting graphs to look at and to make sure that if anyone is using the JS callbacks that I currently have being reported as not used you can tell me my **** is broken.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Size Matters
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate
1503
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Posted - 2015.09.30 12:59:52 -
[2] - Quote
I'm assuming the low levels in these charts are to provide the justification for removing the IGB in the near future? |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4130
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Posted - 2015.09.30 14:15:48 -
[3] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:I'm assuming the low levels in these charts are to provide the justification for removing the IGB in the near future?
No. It was decided to remove the IGB without looking at these at all. These are to help focus our efforts in what we prioritize replacing before we remove the IGB.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Size Matters
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5576
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Posted - 2015.09.30 14:45:01 -
[4] - Quote
The justification for removing the IGB is:
It's ancient. It's insecure. Updating it would be an ongoing task, which would eat at least one developer. Most people aren't playing on Potatoes, which lets people use their system browser, developed by specialists, letting CCP get on with their core competency, which is developing Eve.
Woo! CSM X!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Max Kolonko
WATAHA. Unseen Wolves
556
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Posted - 2015.09.30 16:07:56 -
[5] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:The justification for removing the IGB is:
It's ancient. It's insecure. Updating it would be an ongoing task, which would eat at least one developer. Most people aren't playing on Potatoes, which lets people use their system browser, developed by specialists, letting CCP get on with their core competency, which is developing Eve.
HEY, Potatoes are valid platform for highly sophisticated systems
Read and support:
Don't mess with OUR WH's
What is Your stance on WH stuff?
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Jack Hayson
Atztech Inc. Ixtab.
293
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Posted - 2015.09.30 16:17:53 -
[6] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:These are to help focus our efforts in what we prioritize replacing before we remove the IGB. Pretty sure you know this already, but since it won't show up in those metrics: The header data is very important for wormhole mapping tools. |
Captain Thunk
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
173
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Posted - 2015.09.30 17:06:48 -
[7] - Quote
Yeah as I understand it, most things heavily using the IGB right now are the tools that rely on it being open when changing systems. These tools will lose a lot of functionality once the IGB is taken out back and double tapped in the head.
These aren't shown in the metrics you've given. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5580
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Posted - 2015.09.30 17:37:07 -
[8] - Quote
Captain Thunk wrote:Yeah as I understand it, most things heavily using the IGB right now are the tools that rely on it being open when changing systems. These tools will lose a lot of functionality once the IGB is taken out back and double tapped in the head.
These aren't shown in the metrics you've given.
Location data isn't being ignored. Options are bring considered.
Woo! CSM X!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Carhn Mose
Astromechanica Maxima Astromechanica Federatis
0
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Posted - 2015.09.30 19:06:26 -
[9] - Quote
I'm wondering the meaning of IGB JS Callback ? Is it crest api request ? |
Jack Hayson
Atztech Inc. Ixtab.
294
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Posted - 2015.09.30 19:54:25 -
[10] - Quote
Carhn Mose wrote:I'm wondering the meaning of IGB JS Callback ? Is it crest api request ? If a webpage is running in the IGB it can call various javascript methods that interact with the game, e.g. open the fitting window or set your autopilot destination to somewhere. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/IGB_Javascript_Methods The functionality these methods provide will be moved to CREST. |
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Mr Twinkie
Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture
15
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Posted - 2015.10.01 02:09:46 -
[11] - Quote
I'm entirely for the removal of the IGB and ingame links linking to the OOG browser ASAP... I'm tired of having to dumb down code just to make it work in game.
MAMBA Head of IT
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4132
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Posted - 2015.10.01 08:13:17 -
[12] - Quote
As others have mentioned we are looking at ways of providing the information found in the headers. :)
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Size Matters
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate
1503
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Posted - 2015.10.01 09:51:37 -
[13] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:The justification for removing the IGB is: It's ancient. It's insecure. Updating it would be an ongoing task, which would eat at least one developer.
I was under the impression it was Chromium, and it simply had not been updated.
To my mind I think one of the best options available would be to run an extremely lightweight http server in the background with privileged access to IPC with the EVE clients.
Have it reject any connections not from localhost, serve up an appropriate crossdomain policy, and local web browsers could fire requests at it all day long to both push/pull JSON to/from the clients.
It would be possible to build straight into the main game executable, but as almost everyone multiboxes, that would present its own problems... likely some need to open a URL from in-browser which passes details on which port/auth to use for that particular game instance. |
Max Kolonko
WATAHA. Unseen Wolves
556
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Posted - 2015.10.01 10:23:21 -
[14] - Quote
Its chromium, but heavily modified (igb js callbacks, custom headers and other) thats the main problem
Read and support:
Don't mess with OUR WH's
What is Your stance on WH stuff?
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Jarno Midumulf
Riders of Sleipnir
7
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Posted - 2015.10.01 10:41:36 -
[15] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:As others have mentioned we are looking at ways of providing the information found in the headers. :)
and where is that going to be then? CREST?
Currently i am working on a tracking tool, so when i jump from system to system it will tell me the info i need to know about that System (sometimes even before i finish the jump since the headers will sometimes update fast). When you move this to CREST we will have to do a lot off calls to the server to keep track off where the player is. This means a lot off calls to a server what is not necessary to do.. (so more stress on the server to). And since it will have a cache timer... it wont be accurate any more...
And then we have the removal off the JavaScript functions...
I can see this work whit CREST.. we just send the correct information to it and it will pop up a window in the players screen. but whit that you probably gone have to have a API key.. otherwise you will a lot off random screens pop up everywhere.. and whit that you also have the problem.. you gone need the API key.. before you didn't need that.. only to be trusted. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5580
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Posted - 2015.10.01 11:15:43 -
[16] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote:Its chromium, but heavily modified (igb js callbacks, custom headers and other) thats the main problem
And it's integrated into a 3d engine. Which is not exactly the simplest job in the world.
Woo! CSM X!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5580
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Posted - 2015.10.01 11:20:53 -
[17] - Quote
Jarno Midumulf wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:As others have mentioned we are looking at ways of providing the information found in the headers. :) and where is that going to be then? CREST? Currently i am working on a tracking tool, so when i jump from system to system it will tell me the info i need to know about that System (sometimes even before i finish the jump since the headers will sometimes update fast). When you move this to CREST we will have to do a lot off calls to the server to keep track off where the player is. This means a lot off calls to a server what is not necessary to do.. (so more stress on the server to). And since it will have a cache timer... it wont be accurate any more... And then we have the removal off the JavaScript functions... I can see this work whit CREST.. we just send the correct information to it and it will pop up a window in the players screen. but whit that you probably gone have to have a API key.. otherwise you will a lot off random screens pop up everywhere.. and whit that you also have the problem.. you gone need the API key.. before you didn't need that.. only to be trusted.
There are other options possible.
Without committing CCP to anything (as I like my legs unbroken), possibillities include a long poll based system or something Websocket based, so you get a notification when the client changes system.
Woo! CSM X!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Jarno Midumulf
Riders of Sleipnir
7
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Posted - 2015.10.01 12:28:49 -
[18] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Jarno Midumulf wrote:stuff.. read above There are other options possible. Without committing CCP to anything (as I like my legs unbroken), possibillities include a long poll based system or something Websocket based, so you get a notification when the client changes system.
Hmm.. Didn't think about that yet... could work to indeed. but then again the multiple clients on one system.. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5583
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Posted - 2015.10.01 15:30:05 -
[19] - Quote
Jarno Midumulf wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Jarno Midumulf wrote:stuff.. read above There are other options possible. Without committing CCP to anything (as I like my legs unbroken), possibillities include a long poll based system or something Websocket based, so you get a notification when the client changes system. Hmm.. Didn't think about that yet... could work to indeed. but then again the multiple clients on one system..
Doesn't matter. the web socket or long poll would be talking to CCP's servers. nothing to do with the client.
Woo! CSM X!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Jarno Midumulf
Riders of Sleipnir
7
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Posted - 2015.10.01 15:35:08 -
[20] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Jarno Midumulf wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Jarno Midumulf wrote:stuff.. read above There are other options possible. Without committing CCP to anything (as I like my legs unbroken), possibillities include a long poll based system or something Websocket based, so you get a notification when the client changes system. Hmm.. Didn't think about that yet... could work to indeed. but then again the multiple clients on one system.. Doesn't matter. the web socket or long poll would be talking to CCP's servers. nothing to do with the client.
then you would need the api off the player.. if not you can track any one you want... or you can make a application that can spam any one you want whit lets say fitting windows.. imagine that in a combat situation.. and whit the igb you don't need the api to get the location off the player you just read out the header |
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5583
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Posted - 2015.10.01 15:54:13 -
[21] - Quote
Jarno Midumulf wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Jarno Midumulf wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Jarno Midumulf wrote:stuff.. read above There are other options possible. Without committing CCP to anything (as I like my legs unbroken), possibillities include a long poll based system or something Websocket based, so you get a notification when the client changes system. Hmm.. Didn't think about that yet... could work to indeed. but then again the multiple clients on one system.. Doesn't matter. the web socket or long poll would be talking to CCP's servers. nothing to do with the client. then you would need the api off the player.. if not you can track any one you want... or you can make a application that can spam any one you want whit lets say fitting windows.. imagine that in a combat situation.. and whit the igb you don't need the api to get the location off the player you just read out the header
Welcome to CREST.
The player logs onto an application, with the SSO, with a specific scope requested.
The application gets those scope details, along with a key to get at them. (Access token). That token can be used to form the connection to CCP's servers, to have notifications sent over the established connection.
Yes, if a scope allowed for something to be done in your client, a malicious application could do something like spam windows. But a malicious site can do that already.
Woo! CSM X!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Jarno Midumulf
Riders of Sleipnir
7
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Posted - 2015.10.01 17:31:50 -
[22] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Jarno Midumulf wrote: then you would need the api off the player.. if not you can track any one you want... or you can make a application that can spam any one you want whit lets say fitting windows.. imagine that in a combat situation.. and whit the igb you don't need the api to get the location off the player you just read out the header
Welcome to CREST. The player logs onto an application, with the SSO, with a specific scope requested. The application gets those scope details, along with a key to get at them. (Access token). That token can be used to form the connection to CCP's servers, to have notifications sent over the established connection. Yes, if a scope allowed for something to be done in your client, a malicious application could do something like spam windows. But a malicious site can do that already.
:| brain must be f%#^& from the flight back home... the SSO will be good for it indeed. The only problem i have whit the SSO atm is that some players don't trust login whit it on websites.. but that hopefully will change over time.. |
Arrek Lemmont
EVE University Ivy League
5
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Posted - 2015.10.02 06:44:50 -
[23] - Quote
I'd really like CCP to provide a list of the systems and stations in the character's current route. This would enable dotlan to show the current route on their maps. |
Pete Butcher
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
297
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Posted - 2015.10.02 09:01:27 -
[24] - Quote
What about market use cases? Especially opening market details, showing info etc. This cannot be done in an OOG browser and it helps a lot of people.
http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool + Trade Advisor
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Jarno Midumulf
Riders of Sleipnir
7
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Posted - 2015.10.02 09:05:20 -
[25] - Quote
Pete Butcher wrote:What about market use cases? Especially opening market details, showing info etc. This cannot be done in an OOG browser and it helps a lot of people.
well.. after the login you could send something to the crest server and then it will open in eve ? |
Pete Butcher
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
297
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Posted - 2015.10.02 09:06:46 -
[26] - Quote
Jarno Midumulf wrote:Pete Butcher wrote:What about market use cases? Especially opening market details, showing info etc. This cannot be done in an OOG browser and it helps a lot of people. well.. after the login you could send something to the crest server and then it will open in eve ?
How - that's the question. Also note that interacting with the client by some external app can be considered botting.
http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool + Trade Advisor
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Kali Izia
GoomWaffe Goonswarm Federation
55
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Posted - 2015.10.02 09:22:45 -
[27] - Quote
Pete Butcher wrote:Jarno Midumulf wrote:Pete Butcher wrote:What about market use cases? Especially opening market details, showing info etc. This cannot be done in an OOG browser and it helps a lot of people. well.. after the login you could send something to the crest server and then it will open in eve ? How - that's the question. Also note that interacting with the client by some external app can be considered botting. I believe the current plan is still to add push functionality to CREST. So instead of your app calling a javascript function, it hits a CREST endpoint which tells your client to open a window. Foxfour posted a video with saved fits that should give an idea of how it works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBQaq6iUTQU |
Pete Butcher
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
297
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Posted - 2015.10.02 09:29:38 -
[28] - Quote
Kali Izia wrote:Pete Butcher wrote:Jarno Midumulf wrote:Pete Butcher wrote:What about market use cases? Especially opening market details, showing info etc. This cannot be done in an OOG browser and it helps a lot of people. well.. after the login you could send something to the crest server and then it will open in eve ? How - that's the question. Also note that interacting with the client by some external app can be considered botting. I believe the current plan is still to add push functionality to CREST. So instead of your app calling a javascript function, it hits a CREST endpoint which tells your client to open a window. Foxfour posted a video with saved fits that should give an idea of how it works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBQaq6iUTQU All of the JS callbacks should eventually be replaced by CREST equivalents doing something like that.
Well, this is mighty inconvenient for the user, but assuming CREST servers won't clog up as usual, it might be good enough.
http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool + Trade Advisor
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Jarno Midumulf
Riders of Sleipnir
7
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Posted - 2015.10.02 09:30:15 -
[29] - Quote
Pete Butcher wrote:Jarno Midumulf wrote:Pete Butcher wrote:What about market use cases? Especially opening market details, showing info etc. This cannot be done in an OOG browser and it helps a lot of people. well.. after the login you could send something to the crest server and then it will open in eve ? How - that's the question. Also note that interacting with the client by some external app can be considered botting.
that's the part they need to make if they remove the IGB... its not hard to send data to a server.. but the implementation off it on CCP's side is tricky since the users don't like a long delay between the button press and the opening off a window ingame. and also all the other parts that come along whit it.
If you send it to a CCP server first.. then you don't modify the client right? |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1268
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Posted - 2015.10.06 00:27:50 -
[30] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote: The player logs onto an application, with the SSO, with a specific scope requested.
The application gets those scope details, along with a key to get at them. (Access token). That token can be used to form the connection to CCP's servers, to have notifications sent over the established connection.
Does the token expire when the players logs out using SSO?, or do you give the application access to the current header information until you actively revoke them?
For all the flaws the IGB has, at least it easy to understand when you are submitting the headers and when you are not, at least from the browser open or closed perspective.
I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
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