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Broodin
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.10.01 02:50:31 -
[1] - Quote
Just as a musing from a newer player to eve, why does the wardec system function as it does? Most of the wardecs I have seen are oversized corps and alliances decing smaller corps and the system seems horribly imbalanced in favor of the megacorps and griefing alliances. Curious as to why there isn't either an opt out or even a 5 billion/month limit 100 member/corp neutrality license that smaller corps can get to shield themselves from being bullied by larger corps. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
40383
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Posted - 2015.10.01 02:57:13 -
[2] - Quote
Broodin wrote:Curious as to why there isn't either an opt out or even a 5 billion/month limit 100 member/corp neutrality license that smaller corps can get to shield themselves from being bullied by larger corps. There is an opt out.
Your current Corp for example cannot be wardecced. You pay high tax for that safety, can't own structures and have little in the way of common/shared goals with your Corp mates, but that's the trade off for safety.
As to an ability for small corps to shield themselves - Eve is not meant to be safe, certainly not at the Corp asset level.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4684
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Posted - 2015.10.01 03:02:35 -
[3] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:There is an opt out.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Xert Trassien
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2015.10.01 03:11:04 -
[4] - Quote
The current war dec system sucks the way it is. What is the point of decking a corp at all when by the time the war goes active the corp has disbanded and made a new corp.. There should be a system in place to at least stop ppl just dropping corp to avoid decs. After all eve is based more as a pvp game yes ? |
Hole Checker
Unstable Anomaly
27
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Posted - 2015.10.01 03:14:36 -
[5] - Quote
Most people that war dec high sec corps will dock up at the first sign of any trouble but if u get war decced get everybody to form a fleet of cheap t1 frigs and head to jita or whatever station they are camping
Because they will be camping a station somewhere almost guaranteed
They will either dock or you can catch them by surprise and kill something
Also if your just in a 1 or 2 man corp just stay away from the major tradehubs unless you scout gates they wont actively hunt you usually unless you really pissed someone off they will just wait to blap a industrial or a mission ship undocking
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Hole Checker
Unstable Anomaly
27
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Posted - 2015.10.01 03:17:43 -
[6] - Quote
Xert Trassien wrote:The current war dec system sucks the way it is. What is the point of decking a corp at all when by the time the war goes active the corp has disbanded and made a new corp.. There should be a system in place to at least stop ppl just dropping corp to avoid decs. After all eve is based more as a pvp game yes ?
Lol killing mission runners and industrials is not exactly engaging pvp
I would actually consider people doing the decs to be the bigger carebears by being involved in the most risk adverse gameplay in the game |
No Lube ForU
Down Right Dirty
18
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Posted - 2015.10.01 03:25:48 -
[7] - Quote
Agree that the way wars decs need to be changed. But if they drop cop just bank them lol |
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
925
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Posted - 2015.10.01 03:35:57 -
[8] - Quote
Hole Checker wrote:Xert Trassien wrote:The current war dec system sucks the way it is. What is the point of decking a corp at all when by the time the war goes active the corp has disbanded and made a new corp.. There should be a system in place to at least stop ppl just dropping corp to avoid decs. After all eve is based more as a pvp game yes ? Lol killing mission runners and industrials is not exactly engaging pvp I would actually consider people doing the decs to be the bigger carebears by being involved in the most risk adverse gameplay in the game
Show us on the corp history doll where the wardeccers killed your tax-siphoning corp.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Hole Checker
Unstable Anomaly
27
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Posted - 2015.10.01 04:15:25 -
[9] - Quote
Yang Aurilen wrote:Hole Checker wrote:Xert Trassien wrote:The current war dec system sucks the way it is. What is the point of decking a corp at all when by the time the war goes active the corp has disbanded and made a new corp.. There should be a system in place to at least stop ppl just dropping corp to avoid decs. After all eve is based more as a pvp game yes ? Lol killing mission runners and industrials is not exactly engaging pvp I would actually consider people doing the decs to be the bigger carebears by being involved in the most risk adverse gameplay in the game Show us on the corp history doll where the wardeccers killed your tax-siphoning corp.
No where actually I'm not even upset about it I was just stating a fact I'm in null where you don't need wardecs
I also have a alt corp in highsec that makes billions and doesn't have to undock so I could careless about wardecs there either |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1693
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Posted - 2015.10.01 06:50:04 -
[10] - Quote
Broodin wrote:Just as a musing from a newer player to eve, why does the wardec system function as it does? Most of the wardecs I have seen are oversized corps and alliances decing smaller corps and the system seems horribly imbalanced in favor of the megacorps and griefing alliances. Curious as to why there isn't either an opt out or even a 5 billion/month limit 100 member/corp neutrality license that smaller corps can get to shield themselves from being bullied by larger corps. The corporation is the competitive unit in Eve. Forming or joining a corporation provides you with rewards, chiefly the taxes and the ability to anchor structures, that come with the risk that another corporation may object to that and declare attack you. Eve is a full-time PvP sandbox after all, so you are not entitled to safety anywhere by design.
Corporations and wars are optional however. You are never forced to join a corporation or defend it and can drop from a corporation at any time. If you don't want to deal with wars, then you are intended to stay in or return to the NPC Corp.
Eve isn't fair. Larger and stronger players and organizations get to push others around. That's just life in the sandbox. |
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6850
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Posted - 2015.10.01 07:33:16 -
[11] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Eve isn't fair. Larger and stronger players and organizations get to push others around. That's just life in the sandbox. Funny how you say this, yet when there's a suggestion that those "larger and stronger players" should have some of their activities made a bit riskier, they flip out and start screaming about "the carebears". Let's face it, if you're a wardeccer you're about as risk averse as a career highsec miner, and should be treated as such (gankers are about the same tbh).
I've got no problem with PvP existing throughout the game, but come on man, pretending that wardeccers who spend all of their time hiding behind concord and going after easy kills are a shining example of that is laughable. All that wardecs do is mean that corporations that don't focus entirely on shooting other players can't feasibly exist in highsec, so people who are joining the game arrive in a place where there's less options to get into a group and play socially, and people wonder why retention sucks.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Oxide Ammar
216
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Posted - 2015.10.01 08:04:16 -
[12] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Broodin wrote:Just as a musing from a newer player to eve, why does the wardec system function as it does? Most of the wardecs I have seen are oversized corps and alliances decing smaller corps and the system seems horribly imbalanced in favor of the megacorps and griefing alliances. Curious as to why there isn't either an opt out or even a 5 billion/month limit 100 member/corp neutrality license that smaller corps can get to shield themselves from being bullied by larger corps. The corporation is the competitive unit in Eve. Forming or joining a corporation provides you with rewards, chiefly the taxes and the ability to anchor structures, that come with the risk that another corporation may object to that and declare attack you. Eve is a full-time PvP sandbox after all, so you are not entitled to safety anywhere by design. Corporations and wars are optional however. You are never forced to join a corporation or defend it and can drop from a corporation at any time. If you don't want to deal with wars, then you are intended to stay in or return to the NPC Corp. Eve isn't fair. Larger and stronger players and organizations get to push others around. That's just life in the sandbox.
This guy never stop amusing me when he post how harsh and cruel EVE suppose to be, It's like he reads from the back description of retail box of EVE Online or something..LOL
Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2554
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Posted - 2015.10.01 08:38:41 -
[13] - Quote
Stop whining, CCP have already made it so people can't duck wardecs by Citadels having to be in space at least 24h. The 'Elite PvP' crowd have won and can now force every small corp to not have structures if they wish. |
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
188
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Posted - 2015.10.01 10:04:13 -
[14] - Quote
Hole Checker wrote: Lol killing mission runners and industrials is not exactly engaging pvp
it can, however, be incredibly lucrative. The term 'Dining on juicy fat PvE Wildebeest' comes to mind.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
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La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
409
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Posted - 2015.10.01 10:29:39 -
[15] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Eve isn't fair. Larger and stronger players and organizations get to push others around. That's just life in the sandbox. Funny how you say this, yet when there's a suggestion that those "larger and stronger players" should have some of their activities made a bit riskier, they flip out and start screaming about "the carebears". Let's face it, if you're a wardeccer you're about as risk averse as a career highsec miner, and should be treated as such (gankers are about the same tbh). I've got no problem with PvP existing throughout the game, but come on man, pretending that wardeccers who spend all of their time hiding behind concord and going after easy kills are a shining example of that is laughable. All that wardecs do is mean that corporations that don't focus entirely on shooting other players can't feasibly exist in highsec, so people who are joining the game arrive in a place where there's less options to get into a group and play socially, and people wonder why retention sucks.
Exactly growth is hindered by existing hisec groups. Mercenaries and gankers keep beginners from growing and the biggest joke, uh, i mean argument of course, :P is, that EvE is harsh and newbs have to endure the griefing of the other hisec carebears, uh i mean dwellers.
Mercs and some gankers act and talk like they are the elite of New Eden, when themself do not leave hisec often. Instead of fighting other mercenaries and hisec gankers, they go for the miners and haulers.
tl;dr everyone not leaving hisec is risk averse, but very very prominent are code and mercenaries.
Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
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No Lube ForU
Down Right Dirty
18
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Posted - 2015.10.01 11:05:40 -
[16] - Quote
Lol mercs. You mean the players who sit on the undock or camp the pipes ?
My mains corp and alliance got decced by the 3 biggest mercs in eve. Not once did they come to low or null for us. I thought if ya paid a real merc they would actually hunt you down ?
o/ |
Haramir Haleths
Nutella Bande
32
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Posted - 2015.10.01 12:57:35 -
[17] - Quote
quite simple,
CCP likes griefing game play. They support gankers and griefers. Thats the real niche on the game market. |
Syeed Ameer Ali
Evil Murder Society
23
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Posted - 2015.10.01 13:03:39 -
[18] - Quote
I like wardecs.
everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com
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Broodin
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.10.01 13:51:47 -
[19] - Quote
La Rynx wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Eve isn't fair. Larger and stronger players and organizations get to push others around. That's just life in the sandbox. Funny how you say this, yet when there's a suggestion that those "larger and stronger players" should have some of their activities made a bit riskier, they flip out and start screaming about "the carebears". Let's face it, if you're a wardeccer you're about as risk averse as a career highsec miner, and should be treated as such (gankers are about the same tbh). I've got no problem with PvP existing throughout the game, but come on man, pretending that wardeccers who spend all of their time hiding behind concord and going after easy kills are a shining example of that is laughable. All that wardecs do is mean that corporations that don't focus entirely on shooting other players can't feasibly exist in highsec, so people who are joining the game arrive in a place where there's less options to get into a group and play socially, and people wonder why retention sucks. Exactly growth is hindered by existing hisec groups. Mercenaries and gankers keep beginners from growing and the biggest joke, uh, i mean argument of course, :P is, that EvE is harsh and newbs have to endure the griefing of the other hisec carebears, uh i mean dwellers. Mercs and some gankers act and talk like they are the elite of New Eden, when themself do not leave hisec often. Instead of fighting other mercenaries and hisec gankers, they go for the miners and haulers. tl;dr everyone not leaving hisec is risk averse, but very very prominent are code and mercenaries.
This is the basis for my thoughts in summary. For those who claim to love the pvp why is there an aversion to letting sproutling corps get a foothold and grow if only to provide a larger spectrum of targets later on. Ultimately yes ccp and the community love the pvp sandbox but it is not absolute, hence the existence of concord. Ingraining a way for corps to safely get a foothold and develop some structure and teamwork before being engaged by larger and more established groups doesn't seem unreasonable to me. |
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
196
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Posted - 2015.10.01 14:04:25 -
[20] - Quote
There is a portion of self declared pvp players whose kill-mails are "ships without guns" , "MTUs", and wars against Coprs they outnumber by a large number.
That sums up Eve pvp atm, that is what is left.
Its called emergent gameplay.
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OverlordY
Interspan
32
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Posted - 2015.10.01 14:56:54 -
[21] - Quote
The war system is a badly abused mechanic, even more so that most other things in eve...
Having played this game since just after beta, over 12 years ago , iv seen how much the dec system is abused.
Bored griefer? - Look down local and find a mining corp, WAR DEC it and LOL at the easy kills..
Seen someone you don't like? - WAR DEC - Grief them till they quit EVE Fun this isn't it....
Want a better looking killboard? - Check local chat for a indy corp - WAR DEC - and lol at those expensive ships you managed to 10v1..
Might actually lose this 1v1? - Bring in your neutral NPC corp remote repair ship and win the battle.. And it won't show on the mail so you will look super awesome.....
Someone had the balls to TALK in local? WAR DEC ...
It has to end , it's driving people away. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1703
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Posted - 2015.10.01 15:13:16 -
[22] - Quote
Broodin wrote:This is the basis for my thoughts in summary. For those who claim to love the pvp why is there an aversion to letting sproutling corps get a foothold and grow if only to provide a larger spectrum of targets later on. Ultimately yes ccp and the community love the pvp sandbox but it is not absolute, hence the existence of concord. Ingraining a way for corps to safely get a foothold and develop some structure and teamwork before being engaged by larger and more established groups doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Wardecs are not going anywhere. CCP is clearly maintaining them as the only way to attack a structure in highsec. If you want to use a structure you will have to defend them from wardecs. Simple as that.
Now that said, I am all for new social mechanisms where those who don't actually want to compete, or who are just starting out to join a corporation-like social group. You should be able to tune your risk in this game and if you just want to dip your toes in the sandbox, it should be possible. In fact, I think it likely CCP will release such a mechanism.
Such a mechanism will allow friends just to form a social group, or give a new corporation a chance to grow while still respecting risk vs. reward.
But wardecs against proper player corps with in-space assets? They are here to stay. |
Seven Koskanaiken
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
1653
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Posted - 2015.10.01 15:24:16 -
[23] - Quote
No Lube ForU wrote:Lol mercs. You mean the players who sit on the undock or camp the pipes ?
My mains corp and alliance got decced by the 3 biggest mercs in eve. Not once did they come to low or null for us. I thought if ya paid a real merc they would actually hunt you down ?
o/
You don't go to the hub or pipes. 90% of people, however, do. Given the choice between maybe killing a few guys for one client and none for anyone else, or killing many for many clients and none for only one, it makes sense to camp. HTH. |
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
681
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Posted - 2015.10.01 15:31:24 -
[24] - Quote
And all this comes to an issue I am pushing for. Make war decs system based. Base cost for lowsec so players can pirate hunt without the hit. Then highsec you select systems, regions and constellations with price based on per system services and occupancy. Can war dec still, lower cost for new players to establish small corp wars, much higher cost to do a full highsec grief. Want an rvb fight? If made mutual, dec goes global and is base cost to maintain.
Ta da! Win for everybody except people who only want to grief. Bad for business that is.
To quote Lfod Shi
The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
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Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
753
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Posted - 2015.10.01 17:39:40 -
[25] - Quote
Broodin wrote:Just as a musing from a newer player to eve, why does the wardec system function as it does? Most of the wardecs I have seen are oversized corps and alliances decing smaller corps and the system seems horribly imbalanced in favor of the megacorps and griefing alliances. Curious as to why there isn't either an opt out or even a 5 billion/month limit 100 member/corp neutrality license that smaller corps can get to shield themselves from being bullied by larger corps.
War decs are horribly broken. It is so easy to dodge a war dec that the only people who fight them are those who are ignorant of the means to avoid the dec (generally newer players) and those who are looking for pvp. In other words, participating in a war dec is almost wholly a consensual act. BTW its big alliances that suffer the most under war decs since it is not easy for them to dodge the decs in the usual manner (dropping corp, staying docked while playing on an alt, etc. . . ).
BTW if you really want to grief a corp that has war dec you - create a safe spot then go all cloaky afk on them. They will see you in system and see that you are online but will be unable to locate you. It drives them crazy.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
753
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Posted - 2015.10.01 17:42:56 -
[26] - Quote
OverlordY wrote:The war system is a badly abused mechanic, even more so that most other things in eve...
Having played this game since just after beta, over 12 years ago , iv seen how much the dec system is abused.
Bored griefer? - Look down local and find a mining corp, WAR DEC it and LOL at the easy kills..
Seen someone you don't like? - WAR DEC - Grief them till they quit EVE Fun this isn't it....
Want a better looking killboard? - Check local chat for a indy corp - WAR DEC - and lol at those expensive ships you managed to 10v1..
Might actually lose this 1v1? - Bring in your neutral NPC corp remote repair ship and win the battle.. And it won't show on the mail so you will look super awesome.....
Someone had the balls to TALK in local? WAR DEC ...
It has to end , it's driving people away.
Hardly. Its more like - see a likely corp for a war dec, spend 200mil isk, for the privilege of shooting them, then watch them go afk for a week, or watch them all quit corp and join an npc corp (only to join their old corp after a week), or watch them tear down their pos in the 24 hr before the dec goes online, etc. . .
In short war decs are consensual.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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OverlordY
Interspan
32
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Posted - 2015.10.01 17:57:05 -
[27] - Quote
200 mill? Its 50 mill to dec. That is pocket change for even newish players. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4106
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Posted - 2015.10.01 18:19:49 -
[28] - Quote
Progressively reduce highsec to 50 systems or less. A 'training wheels' area (nerf rewards, eliminate incursions, etc.). Keep suicide ganking as today.
Allow sov-holding alliances to create pockets of highsec (CONCORD) in null. Freely set taxes, compete against other alliances to attract miners, industrialists, mission runners, etc. Suicide ganking still possible ofc.
Now, instead of attacking highsec players (the 'civilians'), you are free to attack the sov-holding alliance that 'harbors' them (the 'government' and 'military').
Then just eliminate wardecs, they'd be useless.
EVE fixed.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
755
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Posted - 2015.10.01 19:40:37 -
[29] - Quote
OverlordY wrote:200 mill? Its 50 mill to dec. That is pocket change for even newish players.
I'm pretty sure they changed it so it scales - the bigger the target the higher the dec fees.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
410
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Posted - 2015.10.01 19:48:49 -
[30] - Quote
just take a certain group of wusses and look at it: the whple alliance does not own a structure... just allow wars between entities that owns structures. imagine how it would be if codies had own poses... mercs would be payed to take jimmy and his braindead cronies stations down. the risk of a ganker? certainly not the ship, which is written of to be destroyed by concorde, the moment it gets fitted.
so codies for eg have nothing to loose, so there is no risk anywhere, except for the risk to fail completly.
Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
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