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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
40399
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Posted - 2015.10.01 19:52:15 -
[31] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:OverlordY wrote:200 mill? Its 50 mill to dec. That is pocket change for even newish players. I'm pretty sure they changed it so it scales - the bigger the target the higher the dec fees. Yes, though the vast majority of Wardecs are 50 million:
Eve Wiki wrote:It costs 50 million isk, plus an additional cost for each member in the target corporation/alliance above 51. It will now start to increase with the 51st member and reach the ceiling of 500 million ISK at 2000 members. That doesn't mean wardec fees are small overall though. The most active group currently, P I R A T, have about 200 concurrent wars and declare war on small and large groups, so they pay on the order of 10 Billion ISK per week in fees.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
410
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Posted - 2015.10.01 19:59:35 -
[32] - Quote
10 bil for 200 wars? best example for wardecc abuse.
Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
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Paranoid Loyd
7066
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Posted - 2015.10.01 20:02:09 -
[33] - Quote
Sigh, three days and we already have to get back on this merry-go-round?
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5417
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Posted - 2015.10.01 20:07:43 -
[34] - Quote
In my experience as a CEO, if you are getting lots of wardecs, it is because you or your members are doing stupid stuff that invites wardecs. |
Milleonia Brundor
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.10.01 20:50:09 -
[35] - Quote
OverlordY wrote:The war system is a badly abused mechanic, even more so that most other things in eve...
Having played this game since just after beta, over 12 years ago , iv seen how much the dec system is abused.
Bored griefer? - Look down local and find a mining corp, WAR DEC it and LOL at the easy kills..
Seen someone you don't like? - WAR DEC - Grief them till they quit EVE Fun this isn't it....
Want a better looking killboard? - Check local chat for a indy corp - WAR DEC - and lol at those expensive ships you managed to 10v1..
Might actually lose this 1v1? - Bring in your neutral NPC corp remote repair ship and win the battle.. And it won't show on the mail so you will look super awesome.....
Someone had the balls to TALK in local? WAR DEC ...
It has to end , it's driving people away. you're wrong, go biomass. |
Marech Bhayanaka
Misfits United I N G L O R I O U S
57
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Posted - 2015.10.01 23:18:17 -
[36] - Quote
Broodin wrote:Just as a musing from a newer player to eve, why does the wardec system function as it does? Most of the wardecs I have seen are oversized corps and alliances decing smaller corps and the system seems horribly imbalanced in favor of the megacorps and griefing alliances. Curious as to why there isn't either an opt out or even a 5 billion/month limit 100 member/corp neutrality license that smaller corps can get to shield themselves from being bullied by larger corps.
Take your 5 billion isk and hire a mercenary oufit to do some damage to the war deccers. Thery are looking for soft targets. Don't be one.
Marech. |
Marech Bhayanaka
Misfits United I N G L O R I O U S
57
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Posted - 2015.10.01 23:21:13 -
[37] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Sigh, three days and we already have to get back on this merry-go-round? No, you do not have to. It appears though that you have chosen to.
Marech. |
Broodin
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.10.01 23:21:25 -
[38] - Quote
Some are taking this out of context. The pvp sandbox works fine, the gankings while somtimes irritating are an integral part of the game. My only quip about the system as a whole is that the wardec system is imbalanced toward favoring the large. Given that most here, and I am quickly adapting, greatly enjoy things is not in question and I am not suggesting that wardecs be done away with. What I am suggesting is that the system for wardecs could be adapted to make small social groups have a fair chance to exist even if there are tight limitations on member numbers or restrictions on structures put in place.
Most of the responses seem to lean on either going to null sec or quitting the game, thats not the way to look at new players who, even in groups, lack the skills and experience to survive an attack from a skilled player in a level 2 destroyer let alone a wardec from an established corp. Creating the option of building a lower tier corp, more aimed at new players and social functionality rather than hardcore pvp is not unreasonable. Look at it this way, a good number of those who are new to the game may start out in a corp like this rather than the spam and troll filled npc corps, but many will move toward the higher end corps once they have some skill points and flying time logged. Groups of players will likely move past the starter corp phase, giving root and a foundation for newcomers to challenge the status quo and create epic battles. Even for the people that never leave the carebear corps, it creates more life and a larger target pool for you gank lovers and a good source of potential recruits for the tier 1 corps.
Ultimately making the game more accessible to rookies without watering down the actual game content benefits everyone, even if you live in null and never see any of them, ccp would have a larger pool of subscribers to R+D the parts of the game you personally love. |
Salvos Rhoska
1536
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Posted - 2015.10.01 23:25:58 -
[39] - Quote
Protip: Compare/analog it to Trollceptor nerf.
Profit.
PvE v PvP
Selling CODE licenses! 9.99mil isk!
Bid for unique CODE neon edition special agent certificate!
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6856
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Posted - 2015.10.02 07:02:21 -
[40] - Quote
No Lube ForU wrote:Lol mercs. You mean the players who sit on the undock or camp the pipes ?
My mains corp and alliance got decced by the 3 biggest mercs in eve. Not once did they come to low or null for us. I thought if ya paid a real merc they would actually hunt you down ?
o/ This is kinda the point. You know what you are doing so they don;t attack you. People who are newer, less experienced or just bad are their targets, because thy are just as risk averse as those they cry about. It would be great if people pushed themselves for a challenge, but it just doesn't happen, so they same groups of people mass farm noobs day in and day out to give them something to pat themselves on the back for. This is where CCP needs to step in and force risk/reward.
Black Pedro wrote:Wardecs are not going anywhere. CCP is clearly maintaining them as the only way to attack a structure in highsec. If you want to use a structure you will have to defend them from wardecs. Simple as that.
Now that said, I am all for new social mechanisms where those who don't actually want to compete, or who are just starting out to join a corporation-like social group. You should be able to tune your risk in this game and if you just want to dip your toes in the sandbox, it should be possible. In fact, I think it likely CCP will release such a mechanism.
Such a mechanism will allow friends just to form a social group, or give a new corporation a chance to grow while still respecting risk vs. reward.
But wardecs against proper player corps with in-space assets? They are here to stay. Agree on all points. I imagine this is how CCP will play it long term. Effectively breaking down corporations into tiers so that there's levels of risk rather than the all or nothing plunge there is now.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Aquilan Aideron
The Scope Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2015.10.02 11:00:01 -
[41] - Quote
Can you tell how CCP hates new and small entities? |
Nadja Hawk
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.10.02 11:08:36 -
[42] - Quote
Broodin wrote:Just as a musing from a newer player to eve, why does the wardec system function as it does? Most of the wardecs I have seen are oversized corps and alliances decing smaller corps and the system seems horribly imbalanced in favor of the megacorps and griefing alliances. Curious as to why there isn't either an opt out or even a 5 billion/month limit 100 member/corp neutrality license that smaller corps can get to shield themselves from being bullied by larger corps.
lots of ways to counter a wardec
1. ride out the storm in station 2. fight back 3. pay someone to fight for you 4. pay the corp that wardec you 5. move to another corp 6. go back to wow
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The Asteroid
Alts Online
13
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Posted - 2015.10.02 11:10:41 -
[43] - Quote
7. Make an alt and shiptoast for a week |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
3261
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Posted - 2015.10.02 11:38:07 -
[44] - Quote
Guys I've ever declared a war or been in a corp that either fights defensively in wars declared against or declares wars themselves but wars definitely need to be nerfed. |
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
293
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Posted - 2015.10.02 12:17:07 -
[45] - Quote
It needs to be altered, badly.
I would like it to be more difficult to wardec someone.
Maybe along the lines of if you gank someone in ANY system, the guy(s) killed get the right to wardec the offenders corp(s).
Obviously not if it was a mutually agreed duel.
But just declaring random wardecs wouldn't be possible any longer.
In fact make it harsher, make it that nobody in a npc corp could attack anyone else not in an npc corp and vice versa.
If you want pvp, join a player corp. Put a longer cool down on leaving a player corp as well so someone cant join, kill someone and jump back to a npc corp..A week maybe.
Just a few thoughts, I'll think more over beers this afternoon :)
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Odie McCracken
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2015.10.02 12:26:03 -
[46] - Quote
Aquilan Aideron wrote:Can you tell how CCP hates new and small entities?
Not really, can you elaborate? |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
3262
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Posted - 2015.10.02 12:30:24 -
[47] - Quote
Odie McCracken wrote:Aquilan Aideron wrote:Can you tell how CCP hates new and small entities? Not really, can you elaborate? They've made it cost and risk prohibitive for them to run their own wardec corps. |
Syeed Ameer Ali
Evil Murder Society
27
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Posted - 2015.10.02 13:06:26 -
[48] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Guys I've ever declared a war or been in a corp that either fights defensively in wars declared against or declares wars themselves but wars definitely need to be nerfed.
I was like "wat that's incoherent", then I realized that was your point. I like you Vimsy.
everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
3265
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Posted - 2015.10.02 13:25:39 -
[49] - Quote
It's the exact position of literally everyone that thinks wars need some kind of nerf. They universally have no experience of the war declaration system other than being a totally passive non-participant. Yet somehow they feel qualified to talk about what is or isn't broken about it.
They don't seem concerned or even aware of the ways that the system is actually mechanically broken. Like how when a corp or alliance you're at war with disbands you're stuck with a bill in your wallet for a war against the entity that no longer exists that stays there forever unless you pay it.
They don't care about it actually working or being balanced, they just want it nerfed as much as possible, preferably to the point where nobody uses the mechanic at all. It's ridiculously transparent. |
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
82
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Posted - 2015.10.02 13:39:32 -
[50] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:It's the exact position of literally everyone that thinks wars need some kind of nerf. They universally have no experience of the war declaration system other than being a totally passive non-participant. Yet somehow they feel qualified to talk about what is or isn't broken about it.
They don't seem concerned or even aware of the ways that the system is actually mechanically broken. Like how when a corp or alliance you're at war with disbands you're stuck with a bill in your wallet for a war against the entity that no longer exists that stays there forever unless you pay it.
They don't care about it actually working or being balanced, they just want it nerfed as much as possible, preferably to the point where nobody uses the mechanic at all. It's ridiculously transparent. That's your fault for wardecing people who have nothing to defend. If you actually decced an alliance that had assets and could defend themselves you wouldn't have that issue. Besides you should consider it a win if an alliance disbands. That's like a billion isk wasted on their part and untold millions in individual corps. So you're coming out ahead in the isk war.
Instead you wardec miners and newebies that you know you can club easily. Your targets know they have no chance against your group so they dodge the war. Then you come here and complain how it's too easy to dodge a wardecs.
You could also HTFU and just gank them. AFterall you're looking for PVP right? Well having KRs out there will get you more PVP for free. |
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
3272
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Posted - 2015.10.02 13:58:21 -
[51] - Quote
It's difficult to describe how dumb that post is. Corps rolling to avoid a war is actually pretty uncommon in my experience.
Corps and alliances disbanding as the result of a protracted war where they experience a lot of losses is extremely common and is in fact the classic "win" condition and a common objective of a war. Not to mention that people drop and disband alt and holding corps from alliances all the time.
You clearly have a preconception about highsec PVP groups that isn't accurate and the fact that you don't care about actual bugs in mechanics because you personally dislike a certain type of gameplay illustrates my point perfectly.
You don't care about the war declaration system working properly or being balanced. You just want it nerfed to punish the people who use it. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
14558
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Posted - 2015.10.02 14:03:31 -
[52] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote: You don't care about the war declaration system working properly or being balanced. You just want it nerfed to punish the people who use it.
And after all this time, hopefully CCP knows better than to listen to people who just want to heap punitive mechanics on other people's playstyles, rather than actually put effort into the game themselves.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Valkin Mordirc
1518
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Posted - 2015.10.02 14:13:25 -
[53] - Quote
That time of the year again is it?
Though I suppose GD hasn't had a massive nerf wardec thread in awhile.
Just one more nerf and it all be balanced.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
82
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Posted - 2015.10.02 14:45:53 -
[54] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:It's difficult to describe how dumb that post is. Corps rolling to avoid a war is actually pretty uncommon in my experience.
Corps and alliances disbanding as the result of a protracted war where they experience a lot of losses is extremely common and is in fact the classic "win" condition and a common objective of a war. Not to mention that people drop and disband alt and holding corps from alliances all the time.
You clearly have a preconception about highsec PVP groups that isn't accurate and the fact that you don't care about actual bugs in mechanics because you personally dislike a certain type of gameplay illustrates my point perfectly.
You don't care about the war declaration system working properly or being balanced. You just want it nerfed to punish the people who use it. Your entire post is nothing more then a contradiction. You start off this post declaring that war dodging is pretty uncommon then you state it's actually common in the next paragraph. Of course in your earlier post you were complaining about all the dodging going on.
I am fine with the current wardec mechanic. I'm not fine with people like you who can't be bothered to expend any effort in the choices of their wardec targets coming here and complaining that some of their targets choose to dodge the war.
You are you actually referring to my post with your highsec pvp comment? If so that's hilarious.
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
3279
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Posted - 2015.10.02 14:50:46 -
[55] - Quote
I'm sorry that you don't know anything about wars and can't tell the difference between a corp rolling to avoid a war and a corp disbanding because they got their pooholes smashed and subsequently failcascaded.
I assume it's my fault you can't make that distinction, much it's a same way that the bills are bugged? |
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
82
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Posted - 2015.10.02 14:56:32 -
[56] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:I'm sorry that you don't know anything about wars and can't tell the difference between a corp rolling to avoid a war and a corp disbanding because they got their pooholes smashed and subsequently failcascaded.
I assume it's my fault you can't make that distinction, much it's a same way that the bills are bugged? Well you could use normal English to convey your thoughts instead of using shorthand that I haven't seen used since beta. When you said rolling I assumed you meant they rolled into another corp. Apparently you being the creative little special snowflake you are have decided to assign a different meaning to it. If you do mean rolling into another corp then my statement still stands. Spend a little of your precious time to target corps with something to defend and you won't have that issue.
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
3286
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Posted - 2015.10.02 15:37:54 -
[57] - Quote
The fact that you need to have basic information about how people behave during wars spoon fed to you is a pretty clear indicator that you're not qualified to be part of the discussion. |
Syeed Ameer Ali
Evil Murder Society
27
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Posted - 2015.10.02 15:51:21 -
[58] - Quote
Kinete Jenius wrote: I do fully admit to having preconceptions about highsec pvp as I've personally destroyed hundreds of billions if not trillions of isk in highsec solo over the years.
If this is true then post with your main or gtfo. If it's false then you are full of ****.
Either way it means your opinions are invalid.
everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com
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Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
82
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Posted - 2015.10.02 17:13:14 -
[59] - Quote
Syeed Ameer Ali wrote:Kinete Jenius wrote: I do fully admit to having preconceptions about highsec pvp as I've personally destroyed hundreds of billions if not trillions of isk in highsec solo over the years.
If this is true then post with your main or gtfo. If it's false then you are full of ****. Either way it means your opinions are invalid. I have 24 active characters half of which are dedicated gank alts. My main from beta is gone. The last time I had a "main" was over 8 years ago.
Vimsy Vortis wrote:The fact that you need to have basic information about how people behave during wars spoon fed to you is a pretty clear indicator that you're not qualified to be part of the discussion.
AKA : You've got nothing so the best you can do is try to derail the conversation with a personal attack that has no relevance to the thread. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
3287
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Posted - 2015.10.02 17:28:41 -
[60] - Quote
It's not my fault you decided to make idiotic arguments about game mechanics without having any actual knowledge of the subject matter. |
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