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La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
411
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Posted - 2015.10.02 17:53:17 -
[61] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote: You don't care about the war declaration system working properly or being balanced. You just want it nerfed to punish the people who use it.
And after all this time, hopefully CCP knows better than to listen to people who just want to heap punitive mechanics on other people's playstyles, rather than actually put effort into the game themselves.
Oooooh, codie playstyle is punished when broken and massivly abused game mechanics are repaired! CCP should better be repair the game instead...
Anywhere else but not your gamestyle... ho ho ho, how sweet.
To bad , even in an evil dark harsh EvE universe, baby seal clubbers are wusses and whiners. Especially, when they condemn baby seals as the worst enemy that can happen to their world. Man i am really laughing hard right know.
I beg you calmly: Oh and please keep the doll and show us where the babyseals bit you!
Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
14565
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:43:18 -
[62] - Quote
La Rynx wrote: Oooooh, codie playstyle is punished when broken and massivly abused game mechanics are repaired!
There's nothing broken about ganking, and the only thing "abused" about the wardec mechanic is the dec dodge exploit.
And pouring out poorly worded essays of tears on the forums doesn't change those facts, either.
Cry more.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
8700
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:51:08 -
[63] - Quote
La Rynx wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote: You don't care about the war declaration system working properly or being balanced. You just want it nerfed to punish the people who use it.
And after all this time, hopefully CCP knows better than to listen to people who just want to heap punitive mechanics on other people's playstyles, rather than actually put effort into the game themselves. Oooooh, codie playstyle is punished when broken and massivly abused game mechanics are repaired! CCP should better be repair the game instead... Anywhere else but not your gamestyle... ho ho ho, how sweet. To bad , even in an evil dark harsh EvE universe, baby seal clubbers are wusses and whiners. Especially, when they condemn baby seals as the worst enemy that can happen to their world. Man i am really laughing hard right know. I beg you calmly: Oh and please keep the doll and show us where the babyseals bit you!
Post with your main, or kindly disembark
[b]----
CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
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Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
83
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Posted - 2015.10.02 21:11:53 -
[64] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:It's not my fault you decided to make idiotic arguments about game mechanics without having any actual knowledge of the subject matter. Telling you to spend a little time to make sure the corp you want to dec has stuff to defend or has a history of defending before declaring war is good advice.
Telling you to just gank the person if they are dodging wars is also a valid form of advice which I also follow myself. The security loss is tiny if you don't pod. If you pod it's a bit worse but still easy to recover from.
Coming here and QQing because your target corp disbanded after you declared war without bothering to do any research on your target isn't productive. HTFU and dec those that have something to defend or the capability to defend themselves. Otherwise just gank them and enjoy the free PVP that results from a KR. |
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
411
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Posted - 2015.10.04 05:37:06 -
[65] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote: Post with your main, or kindly disembark
This IS my main Mr. Bumblefck-face.(@ISD: if this expression is a problem, maybe the name itself is?)
If you can't say anything worthwile, it is you who should be quite.
You should realize, this is GD not kindergarden, ugh i mean "Crime and Cunishment".
Every single one of my alts is my Main! Don't like it? Good! You angry you can not group up with buddies and the likes of you, that you can not harras me out of EvE? I would assume so. Just look at my likes: i get them for my arguments and not for being in a certain interest group. Can you say the same for yours? no!
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:La Rynx wrote: Oooooh, codie playstyle is punished when broken and massivly abused game mechanics are repaired!
There's nothing broken about ganking, and the only thing "abused" about the wardec mechanic is the dec dodge exploit. And pouring out poorly worded essays of tears on the forums doesn't change those facts, either. Cry more. You wish. The only one angry is you!
And to abbreviate it: - I am calm. (amused about your lack of arguments in fact) - please show me on this doll where my arguments hurt you. - yoin a propper NPC corp before you discuss here. - longer argumentations may be hard tocomprehend for you, i am sorry, i can not help you. - post more other off topic ad hominem rambles because you have no good arguments.
Lots of stuff in EvE are broken, quirky or unfinished or badly implemented. Take your HISEC ganking which leaves no risk to the ganker-carebear. Its just about timers and the most simple tactics to do so. Its way more work to be prepare gainst it. Especially if the attacking alliance even has any pos(!) and hides behind game mechanics. And ppl like you *dare* to blame other ppl for not leaving station.
But what you do want to realize is, that over you anger, *you* have tears in your eyes, because your playstyle might be in danger and you might be afraid to adapt.
All those arguments codies and their like give, come back right in their face. tsh...
- Wardeccs need changes. - Ganking needs changes. - Hisec needs changes. - EvE needs changes. CCP is aware of that.
For those massive wardeccers, the risks taken are obviously not enough. This shows one big problem: Loosing isk does not matter. It obviosly ain't no risk, since ppl have enough of isk.
So more things have to be added. Add more danger to wardeccs. In war the attacker should have reduced no income. Maybe they should even have to put up a war-chest to bring up and to cover all cost. The war-chest can not be worth more than the entity that will be aggressed has. The bigger the aggressor, the more "war-taxes" should be risen. To avoid abuse, those costs can not be given to the other group, it has to go to CCP / NPC groups. corps and alliances without assets like POS can not declare war, so have literally nothing they have to defend. If you have nothing to defend, it is not a war, it just aggresion.
Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
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Pryce Caesar
Cloak and Daggers Fidelas Constans
19
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Posted - 2015.10.04 06:33:48 -
[66] - Quote
Broodin wrote:Just as a musing from a newer player to eve, why does the wardec system function as it does? Most of the wardecs I have seen are oversized corps and alliances decing smaller corps and the system seems horribly imbalanced in favor of the megacorps and griefing alliances. Curious as to why there isn't either an opt out or even a 5 billion/month limit 100 member/corp neutrality license that smaller corps can get to shield themselves from being bullied by larger corps.
It is mainly for the High-Sec pirates, in my experience. Pirate corps or alliances in High-Sec do it to the big alliances of Null-Sec all the time just so they can shoot any unsuspecting corps members that fly into their space (or the trade hubs in general).
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Kestielh Mechielv
21st Mordu's Legion
0
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Posted - 2015.10.04 16:22:34 -
[67] - Quote
lol we don't care. Anyway Eve is dying, slowly but surely.. Just check through players stats activities since 1 year and half...Its pitiful to see how it crashed.
This is what happen when you give candies only to a group of person instead of everyone!
Am still lucky to have alts to do anything on this game. Wardec system is useless as ****? wanna War dec me? Lolll lets play on a different character from another alt account and enjoy your Eve Offline!
Eve is real |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
14603
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Posted - 2015.10.04 16:30:16 -
[68] - Quote
La Rynx wrote: The only one angry is you!
The page and a half of ranting doggerel you posted suggests otherwise.
In fact, it suggests rather the opposite of what you intend.
But then, SJWs always project.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Hal Morsh
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
416
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Posted - 2015.10.05 01:41:37 -
[69] - Quote
The problem is the people who actually want fights are in nullsec.
Highsec you get risk averse turds in blobs spamming wardecs on anything and everything to then camp a tradehub. Everyone else either not trained for any sort of PVP or not capable.
Lowsec you get blobs of Russian alts, who really don't want any kind of fights. They just want you to die and will only log off their 10 alts if you bring more than yourself to a fight.
CCP can't do much but keep mixing things up, the game has been getting better. Or has it been dying? I don't really frikin know.
Deccers are complaining when their corp target scatters upon dec, and corp people are complaining that they are getting decced. How do you even fix this?
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
27
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Posted - 2015.10.05 03:36:30 -
[70] - Quote
In this kind of game, size wins. Bigger fleet wins. More firepower wins. Firepower gets killmails.
And, in order to grow past a certain point, you have to eliminate threats, either by diplomacy or superior firepower. So, you always end up with this: Big mercs won't shoot each other because they know they can get hurt, or it's not profitable. It's a lot more profitable to gank freighters, and a whole lot more profitable if these freighters happen to not be behind CONCORD protection so you don't need a whole bunch of disposable ships. Oh, and you lose a lot less if these freighters aren't the escorted variety. So: wardeccing miners and traders and taking/wrecking their stuff is strategically correct play under current mechanics: you risk little because these tend not to have serious assets exposed to enemy fire (something CODE. players like to mention in C+P). In the other direction, a small trader corp getting decced is playing correctly by sending all their squishy freighter and barge pilots into NPCorps. Presenting an easier target than you need to is stupid strategy. The best defense is free CONCORD protection. What's more, most of these miners and traders sell the mercs everything they need on the open market. There was a topic in F+I about putting a trade hub in null with CONCORDish mechanics so people would be able to trade. Danika Princip kept complaining about how people would use this trade hub to stage attacks on goons if it happened to be in goon space, and the goons wouldn't be able to do anything about it. This is precisely the condition which lets mercs wreck small trader and miner corps with near impunity, and not need an economy (pos, customs, barges/freighters of their own) exposed to enemy attack.
tl;dr Trade hubs in hisec mean wardeccers don't need to expose any shiny squishy assets to their war targets because they just buy whatever they need to gank with at the local hub, and wardecced corps' most correct play is to not fight a stronger foe if they can help it.
A signature :o
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Divine Entervention
Rational Chaos Inc. Phoebe Freeport Republic
657
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Posted - 2015.10.05 03:59:35 -
[71] - Quote
OP, you bring up incredibly valid points.
You ought to know that everyone who disagrees with your stance is actually part of these griefing corporations in one way or another, and defend their existence so they can continue to drive new players out of the game.
Interacting with these people will bring you nothing but misery because they are miserable people.
Good luck and stay off the forums, for your own sake.
#thebest |
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
676
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 05:35:49 -
[72] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote: You don't care about the war declaration system working properly or being balanced. You just want it nerfed to punish the people who use it.
And after all this time, hopefully CCP knows better than to listen to people who just want to heap punitive mechanics on other people's playstyles, rather than actually put effort into the game themselves.
Effort of course just means buying more alts to circumvent pesky things like wardecs, sec status and standings.
Let's pretend for a moment we aren't all completely ignorant of how the metagame works. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Carpe Noctem. Pandemic Legion
2531
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 15:43:31 -
[73] - Quote
Hole Checker wrote: .. Lol killing mission runners and industrials is not exactly engaging pvp ...
Nothing to see here, move along.
Would you like to know more?
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Salvos Rhoska
1538
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Posted - 2015.10.05 16:10:09 -
[74] - Quote
Hal Morsh wrote:
Deccers are complaining when their corp target scatters upon dec, and corp people are complaining that they are getting decced. How do you even fix this?
This.
Its a compromise situation in which both parties concerns are in a dead-lock against each others, and largely equal each other out.
Barring restricting CONCORD even further or raising wardec costs (which are high already), I dont see any rational solution to this while being fair to both sides. Especially since its crucial to maintain means of HS player aggression.
NPC corps are the real obstacle, that handicaps altering the parameters of wardecs, and HS aggression.
Alongside and concurrent to that, there is the CODE issue.
Dramatic as it sounds, Im for allowing wardeccs on NPC corps, that extends only to its player members as capsuleers. Inorder to do that, however, Rookies must first be dissassociated into a wardec immune "New Capsuleer Training" corp, membership of which expires at end of trial, and forces them into a (wardeccable) NPC corp of their choice.
After this, HS aggression in terms of CONCORD reaction, wardec costs and corp abandoning as a result, can be re-evaluated.
PvE v PvP
Selling CODE licenses! 9.99mil isk!
Bid for unique CODE neon edition special agent certificate!
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
3312
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Posted - 2015.10.05 16:36:26 -
[75] - Quote
Effort is probably meant to infer the various ways in which you can not present yourself as a huge defenseless pi+Ķatas and to work to make player versus player conflicts engaging and fun for yourself and your corpmates.
This is of course the idealistic view based on the best way to play the game, what you described is what carebears actually do based on their idea of how they should play the game. |
Salvos Rhoska
1538
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 16:47:23 -
[76] - Quote
As to CODE (and unrelated to wardecs), the methods they utilize demonstrate an irrationality in HS mechanics.
Imagine the following: - I drive around in a city center, on a bicycle, armed with a pistol (with my buddies sometimes). I shoot anyone I want in the head, loot their property, and wait for police to come and kill me. Then I ressurect, and do it all over again.
Whats the point in HS ruleset, and CONCORD, if I can do this repeatedly for substantial gains, with no meaningful sanction nor loss?
Its inane to argue that CONCORD constitutes a risk, because its inane in the first place to blow up a ship if it costs you more than you gain.
There is nothing wrong with suicide ganking, in and of itself. There is something wrong in the easy repetition of this for commensurate profits. It obviates the function of CONCORD and HS ruleset.
I move for a more dramatic drop modifier in security status on illegal aggression in HS.
This still allows for illegal HS aggression meta, but commensurately, rationally, increases the risk/reward quotient as measured against having to regain that standing again on a given character so as to do so again without becoming a target to evrryone else as well as system security NPCs.
PvE v PvP
Selling CODE licenses! 9.99mil isk!
Bid for unique CODE neon edition special agent certificate!
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Bellatrix Invicta
New Order Logistics CODE.
616
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Posted - 2015.10.05 16:51:46 -
[77] - Quote
La Rynx wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote: You don't care about the war declaration system working properly or being balanced. You just want it nerfed to punish the people who use it.
And after all this time, hopefully CCP knows better than to listen to people who just want to heap punitive mechanics on other people's playstyles, rather than actually put effort into the game themselves. Oooooh, codie playstyle is punished when broken and massivly abused game mechanics are repaired! CCP should better be repair the game instead... Anywhere else but not your gamestyle... ho ho ho, how sweet. To bad , even in an evil dark harsh EvE universe, baby seal clubbers are wusses and whiners. Especially, when they condemn baby seals as the worst enemy that can happen to their world. Man i am really laughing hard right know. I beg you calmly: Oh and please keep the doll and show us where the babyseals bit you!
Spoken just like a clubbed baby seal.
If you think you've won, think again.
The CODE always wins.
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Bellatrix Invicta
New Order Logistics CODE.
616
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Posted - 2015.10.05 16:54:39 -
[78] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:As to CODE (and unrelated to wardecs), the methods they utilize demonstrate an irrationality in HS mechanics.
Imagine the following: - I drive around in a city center, on a bicycle, armed with a pistol (with my buddies sometimes). I shoot anyone I want in the head, loot their property, and wait for police to come and kill me. Then I ressurect, and do it all over again.
Whats the point in HS ruleset, and CONCORD, if I can do this repeatedly for substantial gains, with no meaningful sanction nor loss?
Its inane to argue that CONCORD constitutes a risk, because its inane in the first place to blow up a ship if it costs you more than you gain.
There is nothing wrong with suicide ganking, in and of itself. There is something wrong in the easy repetition of this for commensurate profits. It obviates the function of CONCORD and HS ruleset.
I move for a more dramatic drop modifier in security status on illegal aggression in HS.
This still allows for illegal HS aggression meta, but commensurately, rationally, increases the risk/reward quotient as measured against having to regain that standing again on a given character so as to do so again without becoming a target to evrryone else as well as system security NPCs.
RL comparisons against a video game. Mmmm, tasty.
If you think you've won, think again.
The CODE always wins.
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
3312
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Posted - 2015.10.05 16:55:49 -
[79] - Quote
I didn't realize baby seals talk like gibbering imbeciles. |
Bellatrix Invicta
New Order Logistics CODE.
616
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Posted - 2015.10.05 16:58:27 -
[80] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:I didn't realize baby seals talk like gibbering imbeciles.
Only after being clubbed. Beforehand it's all like Flipper and ****. Squeaks and chirps.
If you think you've won, think again.
The CODE always wins.
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Salvos Rhoska
1538
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Posted - 2015.10.05 17:05:02 -
[81] - Quote
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:As to CODE (and unrelated to wardecs), the methods they utilize demonstrate an irrationality in HS mechanics.
Imagine the following: - I drive around in a city center, on a bicycle, armed with a pistol (with my buddies sometimes). I shoot anyone I want in the head, loot their property, and wait for police to come and kill me. Then I ressurect, and do it all over again.
Whats the point in HS ruleset, and CONCORD, if I can do this repeatedly for substantial gains, with no meaningful sanction nor loss?
Its inane to argue that CONCORD constitutes a risk, because its inane in the first place to blow up a ship if it costs you more than you gain.
There is nothing wrong with suicide ganking, in and of itself. There is something wrong in the easy repetition of this for commensurate profits. It obviates the function of CONCORD and HS ruleset.
I move for a more dramatic drop modifier in security status on illegal aggression in HS.
This still allows for illegal HS aggression meta, but commensurately, rationally, increases the risk/reward quotient as measured against having to regain that standing again on a given character so as to do so again without becoming a target to evrryone else as well as system security NPCs. RL comparisons against a video game. Mmmm, tasty.
The RL comparison is to demonstrate the irrationality of a perpetually respawning criminal aggressor in the HS environment.
Increasing the sec status drop modifier corrects this, and creates more content for other players to aggress criminals (rather than NPC PVE elements), as well as rationalising the risk/reward of criminals as weighed against criminals recouping that sec status loss so as to do so again.
It makes perfect, complete, sense.
By all means, try to gank in a player environment while you are red. That creates more content for everyone.
PvE v PvP
Selling CODE licenses! 9.99mil isk!
Bid for unique CODE neon edition special agent certificate!
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
12284
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Posted - 2015.10.05 17:12:51 -
[82] - Quote
Still entirely inappropriate , regardless of why you use analogies with irl the ethics and morality have as much bearing in-game as my left arse cheek.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
3313
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Posted - 2015.10.05 17:17:12 -
[83] - Quote
Applying conventional ethics to an environment where everyone is immortal would futile even if it was real. Eve being such an environment and also being totally fictional makes concepts of morality completely inapplicable. |
Salvos Rhoska
1538
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Posted - 2015.10.05 17:31:28 -
[84] - Quote
Has nothing to do with conventional ethics, nor applying those to EVE.
That was just a means of comparison to demonstrate an irrationality in the system, in its mechanics, in its own context.
There is not sufficient risk in HS ganking. The missing element, is a more dramatic Sec Status drop after illegal actions.
This rationalizes ganking, without removing its meta, in terms of risk/rewards. As well as returning action reciprocal to it back to player hands (as aggressing reds), rather than the incipient NPC PVE of CONCORD and fsction police.
Dramatically increase the sec status modifier on illegal action. Its the perfect bullet.
PvE v PvP
Selling CODE licenses! 9.99mil isk!
Bid for unique CODE neon edition special agent certificate!
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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1475
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 17:34:47 -
[85] - Quote
CCP is probably going to tie the wardec system to the new citadel structures.
For example, you can only wardec or suffer a wardec if your corporation/alliance has a citadel (homebase).
To end a war, either the war bill must not be paid, or either corp must surrender , or either corp citadel destroyed.
The Tears Must Flow
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
12285
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 17:39:50 -
[86] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:CCP is probably going to tie the wardec system to the new citadel structures.
For example, you can only wardec or suffer a wardec if your corporation/alliance has a citadel (homebase).
To end a war, either the war bill must not be paid, or either corp must surrender , or either corp citadel destroyed. Unlikely, wars are a Corp based activitie not a structure based one. Tie those together and thousands of corps and alliances without any assets in space become functionaly immune from wars meaning the only way to inflict any meaningful losses upon them will be through ganking...you don't want this.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
40442
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 17:40:40 -
[87] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:CCP is probably going to tie the wardec system to the new citadel structures.
For example, you can only wardec or suffer a wardec if your corporation/alliance has a citadel (homebase).
To end a war, either the war bill must not be paid, or either corp must surrender , or either corp citadel destroyed. What's the rationality for making this statement? As in, how do you know this?
Seems more just an opinion than a statement based on anything CCP has indicated.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
12285
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Posted - 2015.10.05 17:45:14 -
[88] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:CCP is probably going to tie the wardec system to the new citadel structures.
For example, you can only wardec or suffer a wardec if your corporation/alliance has a citadel (homebase).
To end a war, either the war bill must not be paid, or either corp must surrender , or either corp citadel destroyed. What's the rationality for making this statement? As in, how do you know this? Seems more just an opinion than a statement based on anything CCP has indicated. It is, ccp have said wars get looked at when Corp and alliance mechanics get looked at, they're intrinsically linked after all.
The only thing the new structures will add are multi billion assets worth defending, a reason for actually staying in Corp and fighting, essentially something aggressors have been crying out for for as long as I have been playing I.e. a conflict driver.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1475
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Posted - 2015.10.05 17:50:51 -
[89] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:CCP is probably going to tie the wardec system to the new citadel structures.
For example, you can only wardec or suffer a wardec if your corporation/alliance has a citadel (homebase).
To end a war, either the war bill must not be paid, or either corp must surrender , or either corp citadel destroyed. What's the rationality for making this statement? As in, how do you know this? Seems more just an opinion than a statement based on anything CCP has indicated.
It's just my opinion on what is probably going to happen.
The Tears Must Flow
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
3315
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Posted - 2015.10.05 18:17:48 -
[90] - Quote
Which is absurd because 90% of the wars in the game have nothing to do with structures of any kind. |
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