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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16701
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Posted - 2015.10.02 13:42:16 -
[151] - Quote
Christopher Multsanti wrote:baltec1 wrote:Christopher Multsanti wrote:Lan Wang wrote:can you explain the positive affects this would have on the game? specifically the market? You can make people just as vulnerable in high sec we be revamping the war declaration system. If CCP want's everything destoryable then they can make everyone war deccable. You assumptions on the effects of the market are pure speculation and no one really knows what would happen to market if gankers had to declare war on those juicy freighter targets. Markets evolve and adapt. The above argument is focused on removing high sec ganking. If we are talking about updating the mechanics of said ganking. then not much will change at all. But again, who knows. Also there will be positive effects on player retention if ganking is made fairer and less one sided. Thats a positive for cpp and the game right? The only threat haulers, miners and mission runners face in highsec comes from gankers. Eve has wars. So not that's not the only threat. Do you know the figures on how many people in NPC corps? I don't.
Wars are not only easily avoided but also don't work when it comes to piracy. You don't continue to haul multi billion isk loads when under a war dec or take out your bling mission boat.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Christopher Multsanti
Bluestar Airlines
12
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:52:43 -
[152] - Quote
Mag's wrote:1. It's already been pointed out to you, that you merely have to defer some of the dps. As baltic has also said, 3 is enough for this purpose.
3 Logis will not get the first cycle applied before your freighter is dead from 40 catalysts.
Pirating in 2005
ER Advert for the Alliance Tournament in 2006
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
8745
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:02:42 -
[153] - Quote
Christopher Multsanti wrote:Mag's wrote:1. It's already been pointed out to you, that you merely have to defer some of the dps. As baltic has also said, 3 is enough for this purpose. 3 Logis will not get the first cycle applied before your freighter is dead from 40 catalysts. Shield Logi will. Reps land at the beginning of the cycle.
Also, I think you are grossly overestimating how fast destroyers can chew through several hundred thousand HP. A medium armor rep lands in under 5 seconds and reps enough to negate about 2 volleys from a Catalyst... which CAN mean the difference between life or death (I have survived on slimmer margins).
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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Mag's
the united
20329
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:22:39 -
[154] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Christopher Multsanti wrote:Mag's wrote:1. It's already been pointed out to you, that you merely have to defer some of the dps. As baltic has also said, 3 is enough for this purpose. 3 Logis will not get the first cycle applied before your freighter is dead from 40 catalysts. Shield Logi will. Reps land at the beginning of the cycle. Also, I think you are grossly overestimating how fast destroyers can chew through several hundred thousand HP. A medium armor rep lands in under 5 seconds and reps enough to negate about 2 volleys from a Catalyst... which CAN mean the difference between life or death (I have survived on slimmer margins). He's not interested in facts, Shah. He simply wants ganking in high sec, gone.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Christopher Multsanti
Bluestar Airlines
12
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:24:52 -
[155] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Christopher Multsanti wrote:Mag's wrote:1. It's already been pointed out to you, that you merely have to defer some of the dps. As baltic has also said, 3 is enough for this purpose. 3 Logis will not get the first cycle applied before your freighter is dead from 40 catalysts. Shield Logi will. Reps land at the beginning of the cycle. Also, I think you are grossly overestimating how fast destroyers can chew through several hundred thousand HP. A medium armor rep lands in under 5 seconds and reps enough to negate about 2 volleys from a Catalyst... which CAN mean the difference between life or death (I have survived on slimmer margins).
Did you see the video I posted in the op? 40 catalysts do 28k DPS, I am afraid you are a bit detached from reality if you believe 3 logis will stop a freighter from dieing.
Pirating in 2005
ER Advert for the Alliance Tournament in 2006
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EnacheV2
Letitia Dream
1
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:29:49 -
[156] - Quote
high sec ganking should be removed completely
this isn't 2004 anymore, time have changed, in order for the game to survive it must adapt |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
938
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:32:32 -
[157] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Christopher Multsanti wrote:Mag's wrote:1. It's already been pointed out to you, that you merely have to defer some of the dps. As baltic has also said, 3 is enough for this purpose. 3 Logis will not get the first cycle applied before your freighter is dead from 40 catalysts. Shield Logi will. Reps land at the beginning of the cycle. Also, I think you are grossly overestimating how fast destroyers can chew through several hundred thousand HP. A medium armor rep lands in under 5 seconds and reps enough to negate about 2 volleys from a Catalyst... which CAN mean the difference between life or death (I have survived on slimmer margins).
1) They will gank the logi
2) 1 more catalyst per logi, gank still happens
3) I've seen freighters bump off-grid from logi, by CODE, before they ganked, in order to break logi.
4) They will continue to bump the freighter for as long as they need to, in order to pull off the gank. I've seen 3 attempts on one target in order to pop them. That's 45 minutes OR MORE of getting bumped. Logi won't help much and/or give up.
5) If they know you've got logi, they will upgrade some of their fleet into BCs, if the gank is worth it or simply for the lulz. |
Cidanel Afuran
Chickenhawk.
267
|
Posted - 2015.10.02 19:34:26 -
[158] - Quote
Christopher Multsanti wrote:I am not trying to belittle anyone or anything. Just trying to show why I think the argument is not valid.
I used that argument just to show that you can make sure a path is safe in null sec before you undock a freighter, but, you don't need to move a freighter through gates in null sec anyway, cos, jump briges/jump freighters.
But it is impractical to take a 40 man gang every time you move a freighter in high sec. For congestion and for your mates saying "erm? i'm not going to help you with that boring ****"
Repeating yourself for pages and pages while ignoring what people say isn't showing why you think an argument is invalid.
Direct question, should any ship in HS be allowed to be ganked and why? |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3439
|
Posted - 2015.10.02 19:41:08 -
[159] - Quote
Christopher Multsanti wrote:As the title states this is a suggestion for updating the mechanics of high sec ganking specifically looking at the current absurd situation that allows freighters to be ganked in high sec without the ability to defend yourself even if you have a support fleet including logis. In null/low sec space you can make sure there are no neutral/hostiles on the travel route of your freighter before you even undock it. You cannot do that in high sec space. In null/low sec you can actively engage and kill any neutral/hostiles on your travel route before they engage you. You cannot do that in high sec space. In high sec space you need to have your freighter be attacked before you can protect it. Again, not the case in null/low sec. Even if you do everything right (do not auto pilot and triple web your freighter) you can still die without having the ability to defend yourself even with a support fleet including logisJust ask Grath The Meta Show @ 25:20. Preemptive counter arguments:Concord is a deterrent only they are not there to protect you from peopleA: Things change. Geddons used to be able to fit 8 heat sinks, Domis used to have 15 heavy drones, Concord used to be a deterrent, See how easy it is to change things. People will just move stuff in NPC corps and won't be vulnerable at allA: I have a few ideas on how to fix this but am open to suggestions. Dude, don't auto pilot your freighter and you won't get ganked!A: Manually piloting and triple webbing your freighter won't always save you, see above link I have never lost a freighter in x number of years hauling stuff in empire, you people are just doing it wrongA: You're just lucky, it will happen to you at some point LOLOLOL You just got ganked in high sec, How much did you lose???A: I can't fly freighters on any of my characters And so you understand the situation, Enjoy the ganksLet the freighter flames begin. TLDR: You cannot stop your freighter from being ganked by a bumping mach and 40 catalysts even if you have a support fleet including logis to defend you. TLDR Part 2: You may be able to stay safe if you web your freighter into warp but that is down to RNGesus.
Then move to null/low sec. Problem solved.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3439
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:44:04 -
[160] - Quote
Christopher Multsanti wrote:As the title states this is a suggestion for updating the mechanics of high sec ganking specifically looking at the current absurd situation that allows freighters to be ganked in high sec without the ability to defend yourself even if you have a support fleet including logis. In null/low sec space you can make sure there are no neutral/hostiles on the travel route of your freighter before you even undock it. You cannot do that in high sec space. In null/low sec you can actively engage and kill any neutral/hostiles on your travel route before they engage you. You cannot do that in high sec space. In high sec space you need to have your freighter be attacked before you can protect it. Again, not the case in null/low sec. Even if you do everything right (do not auto pilot and triple web your freighter) you can still die without having the ability to defend yourself even with a support fleet including logisJust ask Grath The Meta Show @ 25:20. Preemptive counter arguments:Concord is a deterrent only they are not there to protect you from peopleA: Things change. Geddons used to be able to fit 8 heat sinks, Domis used to have 15 heavy drones, Concord used to be a deterrent, See how easy it is to change things. People will just move stuff in NPC corps and won't be vulnerable at allA: I have a few ideas on how to fix this but am open to suggestions. Dude, don't auto pilot your freighter and you won't get ganked!A: Manually piloting and triple webbing your freighter won't always save you, see above link I have never lost a freighter in x number of years hauling stuff in empire, you people are just doing it wrongA: You're just lucky, it will happen to you at some point LOLOLOL You just got ganked in high sec, How much did you lose???A: I can't fly freighters on any of my characters And so you understand the situation, Enjoy the ganksLet the freighter flames begin. TLDR: You cannot stop your freighter from being ganked by a bumping mach and 40 catalysts even if you have a support fleet including logis to defend you. TLDR Part 2: You may be able to stay safe if you web your freighter into warp but that is down to RNGesus.
Oh, and ever thought of shooting the bumping ship? No bumper, no gank. And here is a secret bumping ships fit for speed/agility more than tank. Typical token tank is a Damage Control II and large shield extender. Warp in with a bunch of catalysts, bone the bumper, have your freighter fly through waving the middle finger in local.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
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Mag's
the united
20340
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:54:25 -
[161] - Quote
Christopher Multsanti wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:Christopher Multsanti wrote:Mag's wrote:1. It's already been pointed out to you, that you merely have to defer some of the dps. As baltic has also said, 3 is enough for this purpose. 3 Logis will not get the first cycle applied before your freighter is dead from 40 catalysts. Shield Logi will. Reps land at the beginning of the cycle. Also, I think you are grossly overestimating how fast destroyers can chew through several hundred thousand HP. A medium armor rep lands in under 5 seconds and reps enough to negate about 2 volleys from a Catalyst... which CAN mean the difference between life or death (I have survived on slimmer margins). Did you see the video I posted in the op? 40 catalysts do 28k DPS, I am afraid you are a bit detached from reality if you believe 3 logis will stop a freighter from dieing. I'll repost it for you. 28k DPS In Action.It took 12 seconds to take down the first freighter in that vid. So yes, reps will land for one cycle, but it will no difference what so ever. Why are you still relying upon a vid from pre-module days?
Both that and the cargo, doesn't help your argument in the slightest. Not to mention the last ship, which quite frankly makes it all laughable.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3439
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:59:47 -
[162] - Quote
Christopher Multsanti wrote:Mag's wrote:I have to ask, when did you buy that character? Mag's my friend I created this char 3 months before you did and almost a full year before you joined MASS. And probably like you, I have done it all. High sec ganked, been ganked, scammed (never been scammed), Pirated, killed BOB haulers in delve, FC'ed. I have done the lot. So please tell me how you would defend your freighter against a bumping mach and 40 catalysts? Cos If I am missing some fundamental I would like to know.
A scout. The scout sees the bumping ship, and I dock up 1-2 systems out.
There, ironclad defense.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Christopher Multsanti
Bluestar Airlines
12
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Posted - 2015.10.02 20:23:20 -
[163] - Quote
Mag's wrote:]Why are you still relying upon a vid from pre-module days?
Both that and the cargo, doesn't help your argument in the slightest. Not to mention the last ship, which quite frankly makes it all laughable.
Again reducing your cargo value, if that's what you mean, makes no difference to whether you get ganked or not if the gankers are having a slow day, as has already been proved by someone else in this thread.
You mean that last freighter that took a full 20 seconds to kill. And the main problem with logis and freighters, freighters have very little shield and armour which is what logis rep. So you're going to need minimum 15 logis to keep a freighter alive against 40 catalysts.
Pirating in 2005
ER Advert for the Alliance Tournament in 2006
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Christopher Multsanti
Bluestar Airlines
12
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Posted - 2015.10.02 20:24:13 -
[164] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Christopher Multsanti wrote:Mag's wrote:I have to ask, when did you buy that character? Mag's my friend I created this char 3 months before you did and almost a full year before you joined MASS. And probably like you, I have done it all. High sec ganked, been ganked, scammed (never been scammed), Pirated, killed BOB haulers in delve, FC'ed. I have done the lot. So please tell me how you would defend your freighter against a bumping mach and 40 catalysts? Cos If I am missing some fundamental I would like to know. A scout. The scout sees the bumping ship, and I dock up 1-2 systems out. There, ironclad defense.
So just don't go where you need to go. Cool.
Pirating in 2005
ER Advert for the Alliance Tournament in 2006
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Cidanel Afuran
Chickenhawk.
273
|
Posted - 2015.10.02 20:28:49 -
[165] - Quote
Christopher Multsanti wrote:So just don't go where you need to go. Cool.
Take another route.
Haul less valuable cargo.
Use a DST instead of a freighter and make multiple trips.
Pay someone to haul it for you.
Use an iota of creativity beyond "I want to semi-autopilot a freighter solo through HS"
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3442
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Posted - 2015.10.02 20:29:55 -
[166] - Quote
Christopher Multsanti wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Christopher Multsanti wrote:Mag's wrote:I have to ask, when did you buy that character? Mag's my friend I created this char 3 months before you did and almost a full year before you joined MASS. And probably like you, I have done it all. High sec ganked, been ganked, scammed (never been scammed), Pirated, killed BOB haulers in delve, FC'ed. I have done the lot. So please tell me how you would defend your freighter against a bumping mach and 40 catalysts? Cos If I am missing some fundamental I would like to know. A scout. The scout sees the bumping ship, and I dock up 1-2 systems out. There, ironclad defense. So just don't go where you need to go. Cool.
No, just don't go when you are going to get ganked. FFS...
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3442
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Posted - 2015.10.02 20:32:47 -
[167] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Christopher Multsanti wrote:So just don't go where you need to go. Cool. Take another route. Haul less valuable cargo. Use a DST instead of a freighter and make multiple trips. Pay someone to haul it for you. Use an iota of creativity beyond "I want to semi-autopilot a freighter solo through HS"
I have used these techniques. I used a JF to actually make the trip shorter and bypassed ganking spots entirely. I have also used a transport ship to move small volume high value cargo, the cloak and align speed mean I fly right by gank squads and they can do nothing about it. And at my laziest I've used Red Frog.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Cidanel Afuran
Chickenhawk.
273
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Posted - 2015.10.02 20:33:00 -
[168] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:No, just don't go when you are going to get ganked. FFS...
Or just jump through choke points immediately after downtime. 99% of the time gankers don't have fleets organized in time to catch anyone. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Black Hydra Consortium.
2028
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Posted - 2015.10.02 20:37:03 -
[169] - Quote
Christopher Multsanti wrote:Some of the arguments against a change have been:
- Bring 20 plus logis every time you want to move a freighter through high sec
- Don't carry to much stuff in freighters
- Don't go to 0.5 systems
- Web your freighter and hope you don't get bumped before it warps
- The market will collapse if we stop high sec ganking
- The sandbox as we know it will end if you stop high sec ganking
- Don't use freighters
Only one of those is really a decent suggestion and is currently being used but, as the video shows in the OP, Grath (one of the leaders in PL) did this and still got ganked. So really, webbing is just down to RNG. That's great game design right there. A gank fleet targeting freighters requires 20+ characters. Why should you be able to defend against it with less? Scout effectively, set up watchlists, and avoid systems with active gankers or bumpers. If you want to go through a system with active gankers, have counter bumpers, ecm (both targeted and suicide burst), and logistics. If you expect to be able to waltz through a system with 5-10 people and actually be effective against an organized 20-30 man fleet, think again.
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:No, just don't go when you are going to get ganked. FFS... Or just jump through choke points immediately after downtime. 99% of the time gankers don't have fleets organized in time to catch anyone. Right before and after downtime is often when the best kills come in.
Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3443
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Posted - 2015.10.02 20:39:34 -
[170] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Christopher Multsanti wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Christopher Multsanti wrote:Mag's wrote:I have to ask, when did you buy that character? Mag's my friend I created this char 3 months before you did and almost a full year before you joined MASS. And probably like you, I have done it all. High sec ganked, been ganked, scammed (never been scammed), Pirated, killed BOB haulers in delve, FC'ed. I have done the lot. So please tell me how you would defend your freighter against a bumping mach and 40 catalysts? Cos If I am missing some fundamental I would like to know. A scout. The scout sees the bumping ship, and I dock up 1-2 systems out. There, ironclad defense. So just don't go where you need to go. Cool. No, just don't go when you are going to get ganked. FFS...
Serious question Christopher, do you often stick a fork in an electrical socket? Do you do it repeatedly? Really, I'm totally serious here, because it seems like you do the in game equivalent.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
14569
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Posted - 2015.10.02 20:53:44 -
[171] - Quote
EnacheV2 wrote:high sec ganking should be removed completely
this isn't 2004 anymore, time have changed, in order for the game to survive it must adapt
EVE Online was never more popular nor more prosperous than when the game was much, much less safe than it is now.
Furthermore, CCP's very own data proves that PvP in highsec is a strong driver of positive player retention. You know, as opposed to boring them to death with the worst PvE "content" in the genre.
"adapt" will not look at all like what you hope. In fact, I rather suspect it will look like an abattoir of everything you hold dear.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Thron Legacy
White Zulu Scorpion Federation
21
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Posted - 2015.10.02 21:02:10 -
[172] - Quote
I only read the first page and it was painful
Jump Freighters are a thing you know? Or Blops bridging some Blockade Runners if you want it even safer |
Zura Namee
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
36
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Posted - 2015.10.02 21:09:19 -
[173] - Quote
Christopher Multsanti wrote:afkalt wrote:You can kill the bumper.
Whilst I do think the mechanics are pants on head stupid, it's very necessary for the ecosystem. You're right, the mechanics are crazy and you're right you can kill the bumper, but for that argument to be valid it means that every freighter needs to be escorted by a support fleet in high sec, which in itself is kinda pants on the head stupid.
If it's worth ganking, it's worth defending. |
Cidanel Afuran
Chickenhawk.
276
|
Posted - 2015.10.02 22:13:25 -
[174] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote: Right before and after downtime is often when the best kills come in.
Immediately after I've never been killed in my two years in EVE, but I don't give info on where I'm coming from before downtime. |
motie one
Secret Passage
41
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Posted - 2015.10.02 22:24:40 -
[175] - Quote
There is a very simple way of dealing with Gankers.
First Ignore all the propaganda about how to avoid Ganking from Gankers.
The reality is you are a tasty fluffy fat dinner.
If the ganker is Hungry he will kill you, also if he is bored, not bored, interested in your exotic fit, curious about your double wrap. It is Tuesday, or just because.
Fly defensively Use an appropriate ship. Know that .5 pipes are where you need to be very alert. And the autopilot is a tool to deliver you into a meat grinder, sometimes, depends if you feel lucky.
And most importantly, most of the time, gankers are not bothered to kill every ship, unless they are that day.
Fly safe.
And a Ganker has just as much right to shoot you as you have not to be shot. No matter how much you hate that, deal with the reality as it is presented to you. You WILL lose some ships, try to make it less painful when you do. |
Mag's
the united
20349
|
Posted - 2015.10.02 22:32:31 -
[176] - Quote
Christopher Multsanti wrote:Mag's wrote:]Why are you still relying upon a vid from pre-module days?
Both that and the cargo, doesn't help your argument in the slightest. Not to mention the last ship, which quite frankly makes it all laughable. Again reducing your cargo value, if that's what you mean, makes no difference to whether you get ganked or not if the gankers are having a slow day, as has already been proved by someone else in this thread. You mean that last freighter that took a full 20 seconds to kill. And the main problem with logis and freighters, freighters have very little shield and armour which is what logis rep. So you're going to need minimum 15 logis to keep a freighter alive against 40 catalysts. You again missed the point completely. Let's do a run down of the three kills.
Kill 1, dropped two Paladins and 7 Apocs the total drop was 3.478 billion. Total loss was 5.365 billion Kill 2, dropped 80+ blueprint originals plus more in the way of copies and it's total drop was 3.065. Total loss was 7.554 billion. kill 3, dropped 2 Lokis and other assorted ships, it's total drop was 2.126 billion. Total loss was 9.715 billion.
Solo loot pi+Ķatas.
At no point did we see any assistance with webs, or anything that could help for that matter. That last ship was a jump freighter, so the most laughable kill out the three. 15KM from the gate, without assistance and a cargo full of high end gear.
What a joke.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
3393
|
Posted - 2015.10.02 23:07:58 -
[177] - Quote
motie one wrote:First Ignore all the propaganda about how to avoid Ganking from Gankers.
Good grief, that's got to be one of the most idiotic things I've read in this thread. I'm impressed!
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
CODE. forum - everyone's welcome (no shiptoasters)
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motie one
Secret Passage
42
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Posted - 2015.10.02 23:12:10 -
[178] - Quote
admiral root wrote:motie one wrote:First Ignore all the propaganda about how to avoid Ganking from Gankers. Good grief, that's got to be one of the most idiotic things I've read in this thread. I'm impressed! Yeah, I know, that permit is so going to save you when you come through in a paper tanked iteron V with a plex in the cargo hold.
And as for the rest, you are Always a potential target, so mitigate your risk, and do not make it insanely profitable, or easy. That pretty much covers the rest. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
14587
|
Posted - 2015.10.02 23:20:52 -
[179] - Quote
motie one wrote: Yeah, I know, that permit is so going to save you when you come through in a paper tanked iteron V with a plex in the cargo hold.
Obviously a permit doesn't save you if you flagrantly violate the Code like that, duh.
But if you actually abide by it in good faith, it's the best tank isk can buy.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
3393
|
Posted - 2015.10.02 23:25:36 -
[180] - Quote
motie one wrote:admiral root wrote:motie one wrote:First Ignore all the propaganda about how to avoid Ganking from Gankers. Good grief, that's got to be one of the most idiotic things I've read in this thread. I'm impressed! Yeah, I know, that permit is so going to save you when you come through in a paper tanked iteron V with a plex in the cargo hold. And as for the rest, you are Always a potential target, so mitigate your risk, and do not make it insanely profitable, or easy. That pretty much covers the rest.
A permit isn't the only advice gankers give, not to mention that those only apply to gankers who are part of the New Order of High Sec. You should feel bad for spreading lies that a newbie might read.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
CODE. forum - everyone's welcome (no shiptoasters)
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