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Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
676
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Posted - 2015.10.04 01:20:02 -
[91] - Quote
Captain Brownfinger wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Captain Brownfinger wrote:Medium and large projectile tracking is fine. We do not need to go back to the days of battleship solopwnmobiles. If you want to deal with frigates in your battleship then fit accordingly, it's all about tradeoffs and by the sounds of it you traded off in favour of more large target dps numbers. Large turret ships can barely hit orbitting frigates or destroyers with tracking bonused hulls and webs. If you want to solo in a BS you use a drone boat or an application fit missile boat; or you use undersized weapons. Large turrets are utterly useless against small targets unless you are in an MJD Vindicator, and even then you will struggle to hit frigates at 500m. The ONLY thing that keeps a turret BS with a proper pvp fit from being solo'd by a frigate is heavy neut, as many frigates can easily tank and blap unbonused drones. /facepalm /cry I have no more words for the ridiculousness in this thread anymore.
Not sure what I said that's incorrect. It seems just a LITTLE silly that I can dual web something with a tracking bonused hull and still not hit a frigate doing 100 m/s at 1000m. But that is the reality. Large turrets are not viable for solo unless you are sniping. You need drones, or application fit missiles.
Having now taken the opportunity to look over OP's killboard, I can well see the trouble. The Megathron is simply not a good choice for solo. Solo BS NEEDS at least one heavy neut. The ability to almost instantly nuke the cap of anything smaller than a battlecruiser within 26k is invaluable. You need an MJD, you need a cap booster, and you really need some semblance of agility (not triple 1600 plate).
Battleships are not supposed to be able to effortlessly murder a 15 man blob. That would be game-breaking. Even the people that regular solo in BS and BC with some degree of success; they get blobbed to death alot. Even with links, crystals/slaves, drugs, and faction mods - if the blob is big enough or brings the right ships, you are going to die.
You need to stop spending piles of ISK on faction mods that don't help the situation. Learn a bit more about the game. Successful solo is about learning to put yourself in a favorable tactical situation, getting some kills and then being able to get out before the situation becomes unfavorable (aka an Armageddon lands on you).
Unfortunately it's also made vastly more viable with the use of alts and significant ISK investments in links, scouts, drugs, implants; and faction mods to increase your chances and give your ships an unexpected edge in some areas. Without those things you have to work much harder to find that favorable situation.
You seem to have no shortage of ISK so I'd say go ahead and buy a link alt and a garmur and forget this battleship nonsense.
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Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
56
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Posted - 2015.10.04 07:26:55 -
[92] - Quote
OP you are right that there is no reason to field anything larger than a frigate or destroyer and you can see this is true by the ships used in pvp. Battleship tracking problems are actually a combination of two/ three things. First battleships are gimped on mobility (speed and agility), secondly their weapons are gimped on tracking so they can't hit the faster small ships, and thirdly large turrets sig resolution further prevents them from hitting small targets. Is one of these not enough to give frigates a fighting chance against larger ships? As it is now a battleship cannot (except certain hulls) make enough fitting sacrifices to boost everything it needs to up to reasonable levels.
A case for more AoE in EvE
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Black Hydra Consortium.
2031
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Posted - 2015.10.04 08:57:25 -
[93] - Quote
Last april I took four battleships and two exequors into HED-GP and held off a 30+ person kitchen sink fleet made of of frigates and cruisers with carrier support. We lost two BS's and killed at least that value in isk. Battleships are just fine.
If you want to fly a solo BS, pick ones that have access to neuts and/or drones, and save your turrets for killing cruisers.
Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
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atash velana
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.10.04 10:04:18 -
[94] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:I solo PvP regularly with larger ships, as i was tired of the frigate/small ship meta. Your friend here is transversal, that is how big guns track small targets. You don't have enough of it, An AB cruiser/BS is in some cases not fast enough to leave a frigate behind. Enabling them to orbit you and "outtrack" your guns through signature resolution, not necessarily tracking.
I have killed succubus, worms, just about every AF and T3D with a tornado and other BC's and BS. You MUST be faster than your frigate enemies with an AB, or have a neut to turn off their props so you are faster than them with an AB. The fact you're using ships that can't support a neut is your first issue. Brawling without a neut is risky, and can only be considered if you have the speed to outrun frigates when scrammed/webbed.
For things like a BS, you need MJD. No question. If you really want to solo PvP with BC's and BS, an MJD is pretty much mandatory. Neuts, webs, drones, MJD and sometimes 100mn cruiser/BC fits is the way to escape/kill frigs. Damped down by a maulus/kite gang? MJD out. Garmur got you pointed at 70km? MJD out. You can't just seem to hit that 1 frig that is holding you for friends? MJD out. That 1 frig has a scram? Neut him out while aligned and wait for tackle to drop and warp away.
There are ways to do it, but you need to pick the right ship for the job. Dropping 400m in faction mods on a ship not designed for it and then being agitated on the forums is not the way to do it.
THIS! I use this tactic with my autocanon mach and it works like a dream. if any frigates manage to get to me after the jump they are already so close to dead that my drones will finish them off easliy. |
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
17
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Posted - 2015.10.04 10:06:22 -
[95] - Quote
To OP: I actually like that CCP has given us a full pallete of ships able to do different kinds of jobs. Just accept you have picked a bad ship for solo pvp. Not because they are bad at pvp(they will wreck BCs), but due to that the targets they can fight solo are not as often flown as frigates(might change with the new BC buffs). This means you are more likely to run into a frigate gang, where your solo BS is weak. This is all on you though... you picked the ship to fly, and did not disengage when you saw a frigate class ship coming to you(why would a frigate engage unless he knows he has backup or can handle you himself?).
I think the main problem is that you expect to be able to solo in every hull (and you can, but it might not be the best tool so don't complain when you loose it). I always become a little sad when the vocal BSB minority(OP did not mention this though) try to paint the picture that unless you are a solo god, you are a worthless F1 monkey nerd, who has no skill at all. I think many play because it fun to play with friends on coms, and then the possible pvp is then a nice additive. I see BS as ships for these people. As this is a MMO I think balancing should not be done around solo pvp, it is fine some ships do better in groups with logi and support. I have no problem with ships being bad for solo. Let's be honest there are many ships that excel in this. T3Ds come to mind as one of many choices.
Another point: EVE is build up around paper, scissor and rock. If you make BS able to track every class under it, why would people fly anything else? high HP, good application it would upset the whole balance.
TLDR: Just enjoy the large diversity we have in ships, and fly the one that fits the job you want to do. Don't advocate to change a class just to fit your personal needs, also don't engage ships where you know you are weak. |
Nyu Kaminari
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
14
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Posted - 2015.10.04 10:12:59 -
[96] - Quote
BS thrive on tanking and are most effective against what they can hit with turrets. That's the point of them, stacking for incredible amounts of dps and tank simultaneously. They serve as the middle man, Picking off Cruisers, Battle-cruisers, Other BS, and at times... doctrines for hitting smaller capitals or larger (Bhaalgorn is one example).
That is not a bad list of advisable targets... as far as choices; It's really quite amazing! They have a low price tag with a proper doctrine and can absolutely knock the stuffing out of smaller and larger ships in a gang: where they shine. I have to say though, Most BS pilots could not care less to fight frigs and in turn frigs can acquire a list of targets in the same way battleships can, only slightly different...
Instead of having their desirable target range fit that of battleships, capping off at cruisers and not engaging smaller adversaries; The frigate starts to teeter off when engaging capital ships because of the sheer amount of remote rep, sponge, and deadly drone ability. Not only that but huge frig gangs for such things require a massive amount of players. Fielding is a chore and other ships on grid will cut them down very quickly in most cases unless you are running bombers.
The other thing to fear as a frig pilot are specialized sniping gangs. You know just as well as I do, how fast frigs can drop to these, but, often it is ignored because the average value of a frig kill makes fitting for them undesirable and a waste of time (unless pods are taken into accountability)
Are BS turrets meant to hit smaller ships? Not at all. Can they? CERTAINLY! ...if a doctrine calls for it or if it is your desire to fight a small target with something as slow as a bag of rocks which can be pinned down and annihilated like an MMA fighter trying to punch a swarm of killer bees to death.
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Portmanteau
oooh ponies
69
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Posted - 2015.10.04 11:12:45 -
[97] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:OP you are right that there is no reason to field anything larger than a frigate or destroyer and you can see this is true by the ships used in pvp. Battleship tracking problems are actually a combination of two/ three things. First battleships are gimped on mobility (speed and agility), secondly their weapons are gimped on tracking so they can't hit the faster small ships, and thirdly large turrets sig resolution further prevents them from hitting small targets. Is one of these not enough to give frigates a fighting chance against larger ships? As it is now a battleship cannot (except certain hulls) make enough fitting sacrifices to boost everything it needs to up to reasonable levels. Frigates are not BS natural prey, it just isn't meant to be that way, they can fit specifically for them (small guns etc) or they can fit to escape if tackled by them (neut/MJD or friends in anti support). Just because the majority of small/solo pvp happens in the frigate/dessie range, does not mean BS should be able to track them just because the OP wants to solo in a BS.
Let me make this crystal clear as the "BS need tracking buff" crew ITT seem intent on (rudely in the op's case) refusing the actual decent advice given in here over sticking fingers in ears and repeating "BS cost more they should beat everything else".
If BS (large turrets) tracking gets buffed so that it hits frigates then everyone will just fly BS, that would be boring and stupid, a lot like this thread in fact. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16717
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Posted - 2015.10.04 16:52:26 -
[98] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:OP you are right that there is no reason to field anything larger than a frigate or destroyer and you can see this is true by the ships used in pvp. Battleship tracking problems are actually a combination of two/ three things. First battleships are gimped on mobility (speed and agility), secondly their weapons are gimped on tracking so they can't hit the faster small ships, and thirdly large turrets sig resolution further prevents them from hitting small targets. Is one of these not enough to give frigates a fighting chance against larger ships? As it is now a battleship cannot (except certain hulls) make enough fitting sacrifices to boost everything it needs to up to reasonable levels.
Rubbish. Just about every battleship is viable for either solo or small gang work, the main issue is people refuse to take the time and losses in learning how to pilot them.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope Gallente Federation
446
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Posted - 2015.10.04 18:03:15 -
[99] - Quote
Amanda. Putting the most expensive drines in your bay is only half the battle.
Deploying them is prob the most important. You can either click and drag and drop the folder into space. Or right click the folder and select launch drones.
Then you wont lose half bill faction cruisers like that navy Ex with a full drone bay of most expensive drones and make cry threads how you cant kill frigates.
Welcome |
Amanda Guido
Crimson Exploration
35
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Posted - 2015.10.04 23:27:39 -
[100] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Amanda. Putting the most expensive drines in your bay is only half the battle.
Deploying them is prob the most important. You can either click and drag and drop the folder into space. Or right click the folder and select launch drones.
Then you wont lose half bill faction cruisers like that navy Ex with a full drone bay of most expensive drones and make cry threads how you cant kill frigates.
Welcome
Carrie, try not to be a fu8k tard. The drones were in my bay because they were targeting and picking them off, so I used the return and deploy tactic. I just happened to die with them in my hold. |
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Captain Brownfinger
Republic University Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2015.10.05 00:08:36 -
[101] - Quote
Breaking out the personal insults now I see. You don't like the fact that you have been called out on your terrible playing and lack of knowledge so now you resort to calling people names. |
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope Gallente Federation
446
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Posted - 2015.10.05 01:31:46 -
[102] - Quote
Op claims to be '03 player.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5395101#post5395101
Lol purchased for 10bill this year.
Op eve aint pay2win bro
You are bad and purchased toons, faction cruisers and deadspace mods cant fix that fact. Scrub. |
Amanda Guido
Crimson Exploration
35
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Posted - 2015.10.05 02:14:01 -
[103] - Quote
Hey dumbass, you will notice the character Hellen Kurvora involved in the transaction was my old character. Also check out Helena Vexar, my first toon. Seriously, did your mom snort coke with you in the belly?
People buy and SELL toons. You really are a dumbass |
Amanda Guido
Crimson Exploration
35
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Posted - 2015.10.05 02:16:20 -
[104] - Quote
Captain Brownfinger wrote:Breaking out the personal insults now I see. You don't like the fact that you have been called out on your terrible playing and lack of knowledge so now you resort to calling people names.
Defending yourself from some dumbass calling you a scrub because her lack of common sense did not catch the fact that i may have been docking drones to prevent their loss? |
Captain Brownfinger
Republic University Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2015.10.05 02:23:32 -
[105] - Quote
Oh boy this is gonna get good now.
/grabs popcorn |
Harrison Tato
Immortalis Fratres Vacui Legio immortales CXCI
485
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Posted - 2015.10.05 03:39:14 -
[106] - Quote
Pearls before swine with a side of whine. |
Johnny Riko
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
62
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Posted - 2015.10.05 03:39:50 -
[107] - Quote
Commander Spurty wrote:If eve were to emulate reality, a battleship would take care of a frigate fairly efficiently (real meaning, not the fake ISK meme).
Alas it does not
So, bigger not better (unless you're talking fleet sizes, then size matters)
Yes, but in real life a frigate is not 20 times smaller than a battleship, or capable of travelling 4.5 km/s. Kind of a mute point to be honest.
I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
6426
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Posted - 2015.10.05 07:16:55 -
[108] - Quote
Removed some posts, then read the thread and saw a ton of shiptoasting, insults, and other FunGäó stuff.
Quote:Forum rules3. Ranting is prohibited.A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents. 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated. 8. Use of profanity is prohibited.The use of profanity is prohibited on the EVE Online forums. This includes the partial masking of letters using numbers or alternate symbols, and any attempts at bypassing the profanity filter. 23. Post constructively.Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.
Thread closed.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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