Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 .. 19 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Jaiimez Skor
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
121
|
Posted - 2015.10.02 23:45:27 -
[121] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Ripard Teg wrote:If they're going to use the same skills/bonuses as Tracking Disruptors, why not just use missile disruption scripts for the existing Tracking Disruptors instead of a new module? As always ( ), my thinking here is geared toward small gang, who while roaming are not going to know if they're going to be facing turret ships or missile ships until they're facing them. INB4 mobile depot. Yes because hostile fleets have been known to hang around for 60s for you to online your depot to refit specifically to fight them. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
941
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 00:03:59 -
[122] - Quote
Them being seperate modules means 1 of 2 things will happen.
1) everyone will use them, thus missiles will suck.
Or
2) No one uses them and everything stays how it is now.
Either way, I don't think these modules need to exist.
I personally feel that defenders need to be taken back to the drawing board instead.
Rename them point defense. No longer require a missile (or even turret hard point), are a utility high slot module, and effect the TARGET ship. So, instead of only defending yourself, they defend whomever the target is shooting at. This is more balanced than a defense module that will shoot any missile fired at the fleet (which has been suggested), which would also be extremely difficult to code, as the system would have to differentiate friendly vs non-friendly volleys.
Then, give certain specialty ships, like the Golem, a missile HP bonus. |
Kari Trace
33
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 00:04:51 -
[123] - Quote
Yadaryon Vondawn wrote:Question, why not have one module? The current Disruptors, but with this added functionality. Or a missile script. Especially if you are going for solo PVP I imagine this is a bit weird. You fit one module for all turrets, except for missiles. Now you have to choose which disruptor module to fit. All other EWAR is 'across the board', why is this designed for missiles only?
I see how it creates fitting options and more choices but I am genuinely interested in the thought process behind creating a new module for this :)
I tend to agree with this. Change the disruptor to a 'Remote Weapon Disruptor' and add the missile based scripts as options. Do we really need -another- module?
I like making things explode.
Kari Trace
|
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2760
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 00:07:09 -
[124] - Quote
I'm not fully aware of what order the math is done, but will a MTD take effect only before a missile is fired or will it shorten the range/application of a missile currently in the air? |
Justa Hunni
State War Academy Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 00:15:54 -
[125] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Them being seperate modules means 1 of 2 things will happen.
1) everyone will use them, thus missiles will suck.
Or
2) No one uses them and everything stays how it is now.
. . . and missiles will still suck
|
Amber Starview
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 00:25:26 -
[126] - Quote
Complicating a easy fix by not adding it to TD ...weapon disruption sounds good as suggested above just nerf the stuffing out of every ewar unless it's specialised hull (T1 or T2) or well skilled but make it easy to understand and fit and use for noobs but hard to master
|
Silverbackyererse
The Church of Awesome Heiian Conglomerate
158
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 00:36:55 -
[127] - Quote
Sincerely hope that you do actually playtest and tweak those numbers - a lot! Have very few issues with a TD bonus ship creating havoc with a launcher ship but the numbers on the non TD bonus ships look excessive.
Goodonya for making the module specific and not just adding a new script into the current tracking disruptor module. That part seems quite sensible.
Any fitting figures / cap usage details in mind for these new modules? Assume they will be similar to current TD mods? Will there be four scripts introduced for each of the performance criteria of missiles? ie. Flight time script, velocity script, ex radius script, ex vel script or is it a one script screws everything plan? |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1700
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 00:37:54 -
[128] - Quote
afkalt wrote:And definitely NOT one scripted mod, as I'll simply put a TD on EVERY SINGLE ship. Because why would I not....
This is a good point so I'll re-iterate it
|
Aaron Rentz
Blackstone and Fairfield Transuniversal Sentinels of Sukanan Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 01:33:09 -
[129] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey folks! If you've followed our development over the past few years you'll know that the idea of tracking disruptors for missiles has been bouncing around for a long time. Defender missiles are a very poor counter (that should be completely repurposed rather than tweaked) and the inability to impact missiles has always been a major problem for Amarrian Weapon Disruption ships. We think that adding Missile Disruptors will create some interesting new fitting options, especially for ships with bonuses to weapon disruption.
...
They will use the same skills and get the same bonuses as Tracking Disurptors (so for example a Pilgrim would automatically get bonuses for these modules). Pilots will be able to choose what combo of missile and tracking disruptors to fit on their ships, based on what they expect to face.
We're really interested in your feedback and we have plenty of time to get these properly adjusted before release. These changes are currently planned for our December release.
Keep an eye out for an announcement later today from CCP Seagull who will be going over some more stuff coming soon, as well as more announcements in the weeks leading up to EVE Vegas.
Let us know what you think!
NO NO NO Emphatically NO, I freaking mean NO!
I've never felt butt hurt in this game until now. So much Ill just make a couple comments and then go calm down somewhere.
1. yes missiles are the best weapon systems in the game BUT only if u take the months to train them to max levels ... the train to be able to get there is Miles longer than any other weapons system in the game, My God it has its OWN folder in the Skill List and 24 skills compared to 39 for ALL the other systems combined!. For that reason many people do not train missiles and why they complain about those that do being able to snipe at them from 250K away.
2. There are already many counters and mechanics of the game that work AGAINST Missiles. A. They do damage only after time to travel. B. They vanish if the firing ship is destroyed or goes off grid. C. Fast ships can outrun them completely or until they run out of fuel. D. DPS wise they are not that great, Your counters will make that even worse big time. E. at long range an attacked ship has time to warp away or use MJD to avoid, or turn and run out of range, even without your changes.
3. I totally endorse buffing Antimissile missiles, just make them usable, like Make ALL Launchers script-able that will A. Script that will only use interception missiles to be protect missiles attacking u B. Script that even allows u to defend friends (activate with script and then fire at your friend. (it will now shoot down missile going for your friend) C. with no script and interceptors loaded it will take out any missile in range.
Imagine a ship with many high-slots that uses combinations of those scripts and u have the equivalent of a missile defense cruiser. a real world type of ship and a totally NEW battle tactic - instead of losing a current one.
You already make ships, weapons and everything else too equal already. having to use 3 guys to take on one ship to be equal is not evil, its fun, come on - stop this.
I don't understand why u wish to Nerf them -- when all i hear in game is people laughing at them all day, you have those logs in help chat look them up. Unless it IS actually true that u listen to only the majority of the the players in the game (unfortunatly most of which belong to just one group who have their own agenda and WAY to much say in how this game is played, mostly to their beneficent). You really really need to start listening to individuals a lot more than you actually do.
All the idea above were off the top of my head WHILE I was more angry than i have been in years, and im sure ill think of tons more after i calm myself.
NO NO NO, NO to more MISSILE ECM, we have that already in target Lock ECM plus all the above |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
225
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 01:49:21 -
[130] - Quote
Aaron Rentz wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey folks! If you've followed our development over the past few years you'll know that the idea of tracking disruptors for missiles has been bouncing around for a long time. Defender missiles are a very poor counter (that should be completely repurposed rather than tweaked) and the inability to impact missiles has always been a major problem for Amarrian Weapon Disruption ships. We think that adding Missile Disruptors will create some interesting new fitting options, especially for ships with bonuses to weapon disruption.
...
They will use the same skills and get the same bonuses as Tracking Disurptors (so for example a Pilgrim would automatically get bonuses for these modules). Pilots will be able to choose what combo of missile and tracking disruptors to fit on their ships, based on what they expect to face.
We're really interested in your feedback and we have plenty of time to get these properly adjusted before release. These changes are currently planned for our December release.
Keep an eye out for an announcement later today from CCP Seagull who will be going over some more stuff coming soon, as well as more announcements in the weeks leading up to EVE Vegas.
Let us know what you think! NO NO NO Emphatically NO, I freaking mean NO! I've never felt butt hurt in this game until now. So much Ill just make a couple comments and then go calm down somewhere. 1. yes missiles are the best weapon systems in the game BUT only if u take the months to train them to max levels ... the train to be able to get there is Miles longer than any other weapons system in the game, My God it has its OWN folder in the Skill List and 24 skills compared to 39 for ALL the other systems combined!. For that reason many people do not train missiles and why they complain about those that do being able to snipe at them from 250K away. 2. There are already many counters and mechanics of the game that work AGAINST Missiles. A. They do damage only after time to travel. B. They vanish if the firing ship is destroyed or goes off grid. C. Fast ships can outrun them completely or until they run out of fuel. D. DPS wise they are not that great, Your counters will make that even worse big time. E. at long range an attacked ship has time to warp away or use MJD to avoid, or turn and run out of range, even without your changes. 3. I totally endorse buffing Antimissile missiles, just make them usable, like Make ALL Launchers script-able that will A. Script that will only use interception missiles to be protect missiles attacking u B. Script that even allows u to defend friends (activate with script and then fire at your friend. (it will now shoot down missile going for your friend) C. with no script and interceptors loaded it will take out any missile in range. Imagine a ship with many high-slots that uses combinations of those scripts and u have the equivalent of a missile defense cruiser. a real world type of ship and a totally NEW battle tactic - instead of losing a current one. You already make ships, weapons and everything else too equal already. having to use 3 guys to take on one ship to be equal is not evil, its fun, come on - stop this. I don't understand why u wish to Nerf them -- when all i hear in game is people laughing at them all day, you have those logs in help chat look them up. Unless it IS actually true that u listen to only the majority of the the players in the game (unfortunatly most of which belong to just one group who have their own agenda and WAY to much say in how this game is played, mostly to their beneficent). You really really need to start listening to individuals a lot more than you actually do. All the idea above were off the top of my head WHILE I was more angry than i have been in years, and im sure ill think of tons more after i calm myself. NO NO NO, NO to more MISSILE ECM, we have that already in target Lock ECM plus all the above
drones have there own category also. |
|
Aaron Rentz
Blackstone and Fairfield Transuniversal Sentinels of Sukanan Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 02:10:13 -
[131] - Quote
Now u did it, drone disruptors will be next. LOL
o7 for not trolling me right off the bat, TY Much o7 LOL |
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE
403
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 02:16:11 -
[132] - Quote
Saisin wrote:Yadaryon Vondawn wrote:Question, why not have one module? The current Disruptors, but with this added functionality. Or a missile script. Especially if you are going for solo PVP I imagine this is a bit weird. You fit one module for all turrets, except for missiles. Now you have to choose which disruptor module to fit. All other EWAR is 'across the board', why is this designed for missiles only?
I see how it creates fitting options and more choices but I am genuinely interested in the thought proces behind creating a new module for this :) +1 to the missile script approach
-1 from me. If there is just a script to change, TD's will be way to powerful. Choice and consequences and stuff.... ;) |
Sitting Bull Lakota
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
11
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 02:28:47 -
[133] - Quote
I put down a thread a while ago on this topic, and I'm going to repeat the theme here.
There are 5 offensive weapon systems: 1. Lasers turrets 2. Projectile turrets 3. Hybrid turrets 4. Missile launchers 5. Drones
We have one module that affects 3 of those 5. Tracking disruptors have 3 modes based on script: 1. Tracking Speed disruption only (Tracking script) 2. Optimal/Falloff disruption only (Range script) 3. All of the above but to a lesser degree (no script) Tracking disruptors affect most ships in the eve universe. As an ewar class, they sacrifice effectiveness against every type of ship for a more reliable form of disruption against some of them.
If we are going to add another weapon disruption system, it needs to be effective against the remaining two weapon systems. Pilots should not be forced to pidgeonhole their fits so that they counter one aspect of one of the two less common (by number of ships favoring it, not current missile kite meta).
We should add a module that affects missiles and drones with 3 modes based on script: 1. Drone and Missile disruption. Decreases max velocity of both. (No script) 2. Missile disruption only. Decreases missile max velocity and increases explosion radius. (missile script) 3. Drone disruption only. Decreases drone max velocity, optimal/falloff range, and tracking. (drone script)
This would give us a module to disrupt the other 2 of the 5 weapon systems. There aren't enough missile ships to justify an exclusively anti missile module, let alone 4 anti missile modules. Likewise there aren't enough drone ships to justify a single anti drone module.
|
Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
664
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 02:43:08 -
[134] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Precision script and range script I assume? So a precision script would remove 30% explosion velocity AND increase explosion radius by 30%?
This kills the missile pvp.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
|
Inslander Wessette
Killers of Paranoid Souls Imminent Threat
24
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 04:09:23 -
[135] - Quote
Nice one Fozzie . Past 2 patches have been brilliant . Keep it up bro .
+ 1 across the board . Make it happen . Too long have garmurs and orthrus ruled the kite meta . |
Kesthely
0rizen Irregulars Sev3rance
175
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 04:29:12 -
[136] - Quote
Little bit concerned about the double negative impact missile velocity disruption would have for the slower missiles. It seems that you'll be able to outfly missiles completly even at short range orbits.
Especially Rockets (2250 m/s base speed), Heavy assault missiles (2250 m/s base speed) and Torpedo's (1500m/s base speed) will take a big hit.
Id rather see an increase in the flight time reduction to obtain similar results |
Solaris Vex
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
7
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 04:58:30 -
[137] - Quote
Right now people won't bring ECM without knowing exactly what type of jam their going to need and I suspect these new mods won't see much use for the same reason, their useless against the majority of ships. Just add missile disruption to normal tracking disruptors. |
Jus'not N'miFace
Sheep Teet Industries
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 05:12:47 -
[138] - Quote
^ this should be one module with added scripts to be in line with all other ewar one mod |
Alexander McKeon
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
124
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 05:41:36 -
[139] - Quote
Solaris Vex wrote:Right now people won't bring ECM without knowing exactly what type of jam their going to need and I suspect these new mods won't see much use for the same reason, their useless against the majority of ships. Just add missile disruption to normal tracking disruptors. This is a terrible idea because having a one-size-fits all counter to any sort of enemy fleet both obviates any sort of need to gather intel on the hostile fleet comp and would require a significant rebalance of tracking disruptors if one module could simply say "no" to enemy dps. It's really the same logic behind why omni ECM has a far lower strength than the racial specific type; if you grant extreme versatility to a module, the power level ought to decrease accordingly.
My concern with these new modules is two-fold; missile velocities are already a problem both in terms of delayed application wasting DPS for larger fleets and small kiting ships being able to simply out-run your dps. Guns don't suffer from an incapability to apply damage to something within their tracking / range envelope, and neither should missiles. My other concern is that some classes, particularly Torpedoes and Heavies, already have quite mediocre application (and range for torps) when compared to similar turret-based systems and thus need guidance modules to get on an even playing field, and adding disruption options without making the baseline performance acceptable will just knock them back into unsuitability. |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
2781
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 07:19:49 -
[140] - Quote
I think this is going to be a bad ide, particularly for battleships.
My reasoning is this. Firstly, battleships cannot afford much (if any) spare slots in the majority of PVP layouts for MGC's and MGE's. This is because most missile battleships are Caldari or derivatives, and cannot give up any mid slots. The only BS which can actually fit and would wish to fit MGC's is the Typhoon, and perhaps an armour/hull tanked Barghest.
Therefore missile disruptors, while needed to deal with RLML fit cruisers, will adversely impact battleship missile performance.
The ships which *can* fit midslot utilities are frigates and cruisers, and T3D's, and mostly this is kite-fit ships, which battleship missiles realistically have real problems applying damage to. This is because to increase damage, you need webs and paints in abundance. One missile disruptor can utterly destroy your damage application.
eg, a Raven with cruise would have 248m / 178m/s versus, say, an Ishtar with midslot EWAR utility - speed 1388 sig 508. Raven paper DPS is 583. Applied DPS is 125.
a 12% nerf to ER = 173 and EV = 231m/s Raven paper DPS is 583. Applied DPS is about 108.
So...with the addition of one Missile Disruptor (unscripted) you shed a significant amount of DPS, going from "lol, Raven" to "lolol Raven" as far as the Ishtar is concerned. Now, if the ishtar pilot does the maths his two options are 30% ER script or 30% EV script. 30% nerf to EV = 91 applied DPS because it goes off sig 30% nerf to ER = 98 applied DPS
So against missile boats, if you are kitey, you'll choose sig. uh, i mean EV scripts.
in essence, a Missile Disruptor is akin to a sig radius cloak for anything fighting against missile boats. The difference with how this works as opposed to TD's is quite stark. Consider this working out of turret sig radius parameters. If you drop your sig radius below the gun resolution, tracking and optimal don't matter anymore. The same happens with missiles - you trash their application parameters enough and the applied DPS drops terribly.
Now, yes, ordinarily you would play a RPS game and counter-countermeasures, but we are talking about EVE, where fittings and spare slots are not falling out of the tree except into the laps of a lot of frigates, some AHACs, and T3D's. Very few BS have the tank or resist profiles or hull bonuses (eg, typhoon) towards application of missiles and cannot reasonably give up more and more slots to MGC's to deal with ewar.
Thus, this will really be the death knell for Ravens, Phoons and various other missile boats in PVP.
You really need to have a look at whether the weapons and ammo in the game are even capable of doing what they are supposed to do. Like, can cruiser weapons track the current cruiser sig and speed combos which exist (*cough* orthrus *cough* confessors)? Do the missiles which you can load in to weapons have the proper speed, EV and ER to apply to their intended targets? Or even their most common targets, if someone wants to trot out the "BS must shewt BS" BS - BS spend most of their time shooting cruiser sized objects.
I think that, particularly, battleship missiles are terrible at their job, unless you want to load RHML's onto your ravens and suck versus anything with a logi.
Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob
We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA
~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
|
|
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2094
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 07:44:12 -
[141] - Quote
Jus'not N'miFace wrote:^ this should be one module with added scripts to be in line with all other ewar one mod
What, like ECM..... |
Kitty Bear
Harbingers of Chaos Inc Gentlemen's.Club
1527
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 08:22:15 -
[142] - Quote
the question that still has not been answered will missiles be able to 'miss' their targets whilst affected by these modules
|
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1517
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 08:24:21 -
[143] - Quote
Sounds like a fine idea to me. Perhaps this could replace Caldari's ECM ships so just like Amarr Ewar is TD Caldari Ewar could be MD. |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
428
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 08:29:36 -
[144] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:the way it is is good. if it's all in one module I can just show up in my 5 tracking disruptor curse and shut everyone down except drones. if you make me choose the number of modules of each type to fit, well, it's sort of like racial ecm rather than just making multis as powerful as racials. tracking disruptors are plenty good already. That works for the Curse, and might work for the Pilgrim since the range buff (old, short-range Pilgrim however struggled for 1 TD slot - I haven't looked at mine since the change but I guess that the midslot load has eased somewhat); but if you only have space for one disruption module it's not viable. It pushes disrution (weapon disruption) ships more to the strategies of Falcons and so forth where, fitted for disruption, that becomes their only role - and I'm not sure weapon disruption is powerful enough to support that. |
Fazayek
NOOBIAN UNION Bright Side of Death
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 08:40:34 -
[145] - Quote
I think missle disruptor should be Caldari specific module. I mean, all other races have 2 ewar types |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2094
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 08:48:09 -
[146] - Quote
Jacob Holland wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:the way it is is good. if it's all in one module I can just show up in my 5 tracking disruptor curse and shut everyone down except drones. if you make me choose the number of modules of each type to fit, well, it's sort of like racial ecm rather than just making multis as powerful as racials. tracking disruptors are plenty good already. That works for the Curse, and might work for the Pilgrim since the range buff (old, short-range Pilgrim however struggled for 1 TD slot - I haven't looked at mine since the change but I guess that the midslot load has eased somewhat); but if you only have space for one disruption module it's not viable. It pushes disrution (weapon disruption) ships more to the strategies of Falcons and so forth where, fitted for disruption, that becomes their only role - and I'm not sure weapon disruption is powerful enough to support that.
Sack that, with one mod I can obliterate the DPS of every non-drone ship in the game.
I can half missile ship range. HALF it. Lol. I can make faction heavies hit like fury cruise. I can make pulse track like rails.
All with an instant script change. On UNBONUSED hulls.
I'd have them on EVERY boat yesterday.
What you're forgetting is unbonused ECM was gutted because of this, TDs have not been.
If this becomes one mod, it's going to be TD drone boats online. |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
948
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 10:44:43 -
[147] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Fifth Blade wrote:Ripard Teg wrote:If they're going to use the same skills/bonuses as Tracking Disruptors, why not just use missile disruption scripts for the existing Tracking Disruptors instead of a new module? As always ( ), my thinking here is geared toward small gang, who while roaming are not going to know if they're going to be facing turret ships or missile ships until they're facing them. Came here to say the exact same thing. From the same perspective (small gang). Please do this. Because it's FAR too strong on unbonused hulls; people don't do it today because it only gets turrets - but make it both and it's all you'll see. Ever. I really don't know why the **** people are advocating for a combined module. What you're saying is blatantly obvious but certain people seem to be completely blind to reality. |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
413
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 10:59:17 -
[148] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:the question that still has not been answered will missiles be able to 'miss' their targets whilst affected by these modules
Yes.
You will know when this happens when your UI tells you you did "0 damage". Every time that happens, your missiles "missed". |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1202
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 14:23:21 -
[149] - Quote
a quick summary here
- HAM's need webs too apply any decent amount of damage - HAM range needs decoupling from torps
- light missiles apply dps too well LML and RLML need balancing around ROF, thus a light missile damage nerf - torps are terrible at applying dps without webs/TP's/scrams
- missiles need better basic stats - webs/TP's need nerfing too allow missile tracking mods too have any chance
all in all a thorough balance of missiles and related mods are needed not just a few lame missile mods thrown in and hope there used.
also drone e-war is much needed
T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name, remove drone assist, nerf sentries, -3 highslots for droneboats
Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
|
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4689
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 14:27:53 -
[150] - Quote
So,when are we finally going to nerf drones to the level of all other weapon systems and start limiting drone types to ship class?
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 .. 19 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |