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William Adoulin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.10.03 10:24:15 -
[1] - Quote
Hi all, first of all been playing this game for 10 days now and really enjoying it, mainly doing trading so far and making fits to fight off gankers. Honestly, tanking my trade ship against gankers is a lot of fun for me - I've already had one ganker fail and die in the attempt. However, I've been looking at the Corp part of the game and it seems there's absolutely no benefit for me to leave my starting NPC corp and join a player corp, and several significant cons.
Perceived benefits:
- All of the hard benefits, such as refining, group mining bonuses, fleets, etc. don't apply to me as a trader. There's no shared benefits to trading with a group of players and it seems to me quite a number of risks such as pooling money/resources and potentially losing those.
- The NPC corp tax doesn't affect me, as I'm not doing missions.
- I don't need protection as I'm in highsec - Concord is my protection
- Not currently looking to do any PVP
- I can still join a channel and talk in general/get advice without being part of a corp - in fact I'm already doing that.
Cons:
- If I join a player corp I am now subject to declarations of war by anyone who feels like it, meaning I can no longer fly my routes and at least know Concord will blow someone up if they opt to attack me. (By the way - for game lore purposes, why wouldn't Concord come to the aid of a pacifist trader/miner corp who's declared on by pirates?)
- I am also subjecting myself to the risks of joining that corp. I've read about scams where someone in the corp can attack me without impunity and steal my stuff. In addition, if they require my API to join (and most corps seem to) they can now read all my trading records and take my most profitable routes.
I initially had thought it'd be good to band together with some fellow traders for mutual benefit while I'm exploring the PVE part of the game (not ready to go into PVP yet) but it seems to me there are zero benefits and and significant negatives to doing so. Am I missing something or is the corp part of the game totally pointless for me right now? And if so, that seems kind of lame.
Oh, and not interested in making a PVP alt or something - 1 character is enough to manage. |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1522
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Posted - 2015.10.03 10:43:50 -
[2] - Quote
If you choose to do something that doesn't require others and you're fine with that then there's no reason to join a corp. You will be "missing out" on lots of EVE stuff, exciting and hilarious stuff but that is a choice. Just don't start blaming the game if you get bored or run out of goals/ideas. |
William Adoulin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.10.03 10:47:33 -
[3] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:If you choose to do something that doesn't require others and you're fine with that then there's no reason to join a corp. You will be "missing out" on lots of EVE stuff, exciting and hilarious stuff but that is a choice. Just don't start blaming the game if you get bored or run out of goals/ideas.
Understood, it just seems odd to me as a new player that the game is built to discourage me from joining a corp, so I wondered if I was missing something. Based on my investigation, it seems there's no tangible benefits and some very tangible cons in terms of in-game mechanics for me. |
Xylem Viliana
Protomonolithic
327
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Posted - 2015.10.03 10:49:15 -
[4] - Quote
I don't need protection as I'm in highsec - Concord is my protection
Wrong.
Concord are not there to protect you, they are there to deliver righteous justice for the acts commited. Highsec is not safe with concord and if you are under the impression it is please go onto Zkill and have a look at the number of kills in highsec. the majority are not due to wars, they are due to suicide ganking. which if you dont know it the method of sacrificing your own ship for the sole purpose of blowing up your opponent too. 100m tornado wiping a 1b hauler off the field for example, and a lot of those gankers dont do it for profit or stats. They do it cause they can and cause the want to.
I didnt read the rest of the post after "concord is my protection" you have a lot to learn still, but you will get there i hope |
William Adoulin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.10.03 10:53:21 -
[5] - Quote
Xylem Viliana wrote:I don't need protection as I'm in highsec - Concord is my protection
Wrong.
Concord are not there to protect you, they are there to deliver righteous justice for the acts commited. Highsec is not safe with concord and if you are under the impression it is please go onto Zkill and have a look at the number of kills in highsec. the majority are not due to wars, they are due to suicide ganking. which if you dont know it the method of sacrificing your own ship for the sole purpose of blowing up your opponent too. 100m tornado wiping a 1b hauler off the field for example, and a lot of those gankers dont do it for profit or stats. They do it cause they can and cause the want to.
I didnt read the rest of the post after "concord is my protection" you have a lot to learn still, but you will get there i hope
Well, if you read my original post, you would see I have been tanking against the gankers to make it unprofitable for them to attack me. Seems to me that joining a corp is pinning a giant target on my back - it's not like a corp can instantly warp to me in the 5 seconds it would take someone to gank me. However, they can now declare war on me and there will be zero reason for them not to attack as Concord will no longer take their shiny ship from them if they do. |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1522
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Posted - 2015.10.03 10:58:35 -
[6] - Quote
William Adoulin wrote:Understood, it just seems odd to me as a new player that the game is built to discourage me from joining a corp.
It isn't. The concept of EVE is about challenge, risk assessment, competitiveness and interaction. Creating or being part of a group/corp involves all that and it allows you to start building your own castles in this sandbox. But if your chosen path/goal in EVE doesn't necessarily require other people then that's fine, it's a sandbox after all, so your stance on corps is based on your current choice to do something that doesn't require them nor is augmented by them.
Lets say that at some point you want to expand your trading/hauling business and become affiliated to some corp or alliance taking care of logistics side of it all (wars are won by logistics) then you automatically will see a need/use for being part of a group. |
Elizabeth Salisbury
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
6
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Posted - 2015.10.03 11:02:17 -
[7] - Quote
Well your paying what 11% corp tax being in an NPC corp? so your loosing quite a big chunk of your isk being in an NPC corp :) |
William Adoulin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.10.03 11:02:27 -
[8] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:William Adoulin wrote:Understood, it just seems odd to me as a new player that the game is built to discourage me from joining a corp. It isn't. The concept of EVE is about challenge, risk assessment, competitiveness and interaction. Creating or being part of a group/corp involves all that and it allows you to start building your own castles in this sandbox. But if your chosen path/goal in EVE doesn't necessarily require other people then that's fine, it's a sandbox after all, so your stance on corps is based on your current choice to do something that doesn't require them nor is augmented by them. Lets say that at some point you want to expand your trading/hauling business and become affiliated to some corp or alliance, taking care of logistics side of it all (wars are won by logistics) then you automatically will see a need/use for being part of a group.
Ok, thanks! I can definitely accept that - and like I said I'm definitely enjoying myself as a solo player. I just noticed that everyone's advice for noobs was to join a corp ASAP, and when I did my investigation the risk vs reward didn't seem to make sense at all for me. I guess I'll continue solo and revisit corps in a few months when I'm ready to try out PvP. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1729
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Posted - 2015.10.03 11:02:44 -
[9] - Quote
What is that lame? You have choosen a profession that requires little cooperation with others. If you just want like-minded people to socialize with there are specialized chat channels for professions like the Hauler Channel or that trading channel which name escapes me now. Perhaps these new citadels will provide you a trading goal (set up and stock a market?) that will require many people to accomplish, but flipping goods by station or region trading is a solitary endeavour.
A corporation in Eve is different than in other games. It is not primarily a social organization, but is primarily a competitive one. It opens the door to more risky and more rewarding game play, but it is not relevant for every profession in this game. If it makes sense, join one, otherwise stay on your own and make social connections other ways.
One other point: trading shares a completely different skill set than every other profession. It also doesn't take that long to get decent trading skills. You could consider getting your trader up and running, and then making an alt to join a corporation to pursue other PvE content with other players. Eventually that alt will likely become your main as you keep training ship combat skills, but you will be able to trade with your first character forever. It's always good to have a dedicated trading alt anyways to offload your PvE booty at the best price.
I did something similar and even though I still make most of my income by trading, I have long since finished training my first character, now trading alt, who still toils away in safety. But now I can enjoy other aspects of the game with my other characters in player run corporations do player corporation-type stuff with them. |
William Adoulin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.10.03 11:08:17 -
[10] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:What is that lame? You have choosen a profession that requires little cooperation with others.
Well, actually, in other games I've played there were active benefits, as a trader, to joining a trading guild to advance both yourself and the group. It just seems that EVE doesn't have this, that's all. |
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smokess
The Irukandji Project
64
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Posted - 2015.10.03 11:13:42 -
[11] - Quote
William Adoulin wrote:(By the way - for game lore purposes, why wouldn't Concord come to the aid of a pacifist trader/miner corp who's declared on by pirates?)
Because, in the lore, the fee you pay to Concord to declare war on another corporation is essentially a bribe as far as I know. You are bribing them to look the other way.
They also would not come to your aid anyway, since their purpose is not to protect people. Their purpose is to punish those who transgress the law, not prevent them from doing so in the first place or aid potential/current victims.
You could think of it like this. When someone attacks you and they turn up to exact justice on the criminal, they turn up just to destroy the ship of that criminal individual. The fate of your ship is of no concern to them. Note, for instance, that they do not provide logistics to you while exacting justice upon the aggressor. |
William Adoulin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.10.03 11:17:40 -
[12] - Quote
smokess wrote:William Adoulin wrote:(By the way - for game lore purposes, why wouldn't Concord come to the aid of a pacifist trader/miner corp who's declared on by pirates?) Because, in the lore, the fee you pay to Concord to declare war on another corporation is essentially a bribe as far as I know. You are bribing them to look the other way. They also would not come to your aid anyway, since their purpose is not to protect people. Their purpose is to punish those who transgress the law, not prevent them from doing so in the first place or aid potential/current victims. You could think of it like this. When someone attacks you and they turn up to exact justice on the criminal, they turn up just to destroy the ship of that criminal individual. The fate of your ship is of no concern to them. Note, for instance, that they do not provide logistics to you while exacting justice upon the aggressor.
Well, if it's a bribe, then why can't you counter-bribe Concord back to not let them attack your corp? I'm sure there's plenty of pacifist miner corps that would be more than willing to do that. Just saying... |
Loadof Crok
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.10.03 11:17:58 -
[13] - Quote
I've been playing a few months and what your saying makes a lot of sense for new players. I should have stayed in hi sec but I followed the corp into null sec and everyone else is to highly skilled for me to make even a scratch. Stay in high sec where you feel comfortable. |
Aoife Fraoch
Rabble Inc.
144
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Posted - 2015.10.03 11:28:23 -
[14] - Quote
Sounds like you are playing rationally. You are managing the risks that you are exposed to from gankers and so on, and making choices based on the current mechanics.
It would be nice if there were benifits for traders in corps, like enhanced standings or tax efficiency, but there aren't. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
12220
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Posted - 2015.10.03 11:31:15 -
[15] - Quote
As gregor correctly pointed out, you have no current need for a Corp right now.
As he also pointed out, we are the content here , so once you want to start actually impacting the sandbox in any meaningful way you well start seeing reasons to join a Corp.
Right off the bat you seem like the pragmatic sort so I have no doubt that when the time comes you will realize it.
It's also a good sign that you're aware that joining a Corp will make you a potential target.
Welcome aboard o7
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Lulu Lunette
Blue Aurochs United Systems of Aridia
89
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Posted - 2015.10.03 11:32:07 -
[16] - Quote
Hey OP
I think you nailed it on the head and sounds like joining a player corporation would be bad. Maybe someday your trading will get big enough where you hire others to do the hauling for you and then you could start your own corp just to have your name on the door or something.. also then you got additional buy and sell orders on behalf of the corporation. Can scale that with alts and you'd have a shared wallet between all of them. If you never undock then wardecs would be nothing.
Just some ideas. Plenty of channels to loiter in Haulers Channel is good I keep that one open
@lunettelulu7
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La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
411
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Posted - 2015.10.03 12:08:29 -
[17] - Quote
William Adoulin wrote:Hi all, first of all been playing this game for 10 days now and really enjoying it, mainly doing trading so far and making fits to fight off gankers. Honestly, tanking my trade ship against gankers is a lot of fun for me - I've already had one ganker fail and die in the attempt. However, I've been looking at the Corp part of the game and it seems there's absolutely no benefit for me to leave my starting NPC corp and join a player corp, and several significant cons.
Well yes, you got that quite right. At the beginning it will work. However, if you need to fly a freighter, you might want some help from buddies webbing you, so you can warp faster. If you do not, you might fall victim to ganking in bottlenecks like Uedama. No fit can save you. Corp buddies will help.
Except for stationonly traders, corps later in game get more important. Corps in alliances always need something. I really can recommend a little more cooperation with other players.
Black Pedro wrote:What is that lame? You have choosen a profession that requires little cooperation with others.
I ain't lame, its just another playstyle. I will not repeat those arguments again since you choose to read arguments you do not like with closed eyes and ignore them.
Just learn to accept other playstyles, they are as legit as yours.
Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
14591
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Posted - 2015.10.03 12:23:09 -
[18] - Quote
La Rynx wrote: Just learn to accept other playstyles, they are as legit as yours.
Coming from the likes of you, that's the funniest thing I've read all week.
OP, just join the Haulers Channel, and consider looking into joining Red Frog or one of the other major hauling groups. You also might consider, once you've gotten a good cash flow, making an alt account to engage in more social gameplay.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
411
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Posted - 2015.10.03 12:35:06 -
[19] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:La Rynx wrote: Just learn to accept other playstyles, they are as legit as yours.
Coming from the likes of you, that's the funniest thing I've read all week. OP, just join the Haulers Channel, and consider looking into joining Red Frog or one of the other major hauling groups. You also might consider, once you've gotten a good cash flow, making an alt account to engage in more social gameplay.
Please note.
William Adoulin wrote:mainly doing trading Hauling is just a part of it and not needed for station trading. He also said, that adding another alt is out of question for the time being.
Its good that you are amused and just be it , that you are obviously unable to comprehend me. I do accept ganking as playstile and i do it for quite a while now. However that doesn't mean i have to like broken or quirky game mechanics that are massivly abused. Also i do not see a reason to respect codies since i do not like their playstile, which in my oppinon, relies almost completly on broken gamemechanics and griefing newbies.
Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
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Divine Entervention
Rational Chaos Inc. Phoebe Freeport Republic
651
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Posted - 2015.10.03 12:45:58 -
[20] - Quote
Comradery.
One of the things you'll notice about people who spend their time in NPC corps over player corps:
They're all screwed up in the head.
They're people overly risk averse or incredibly anti-social. They're there because they're paralyzed by the fear of loss, afraid of interacting with people, or completely incapable of maintaining social connections past salutations.
While joining a player corp opens you up to more risks than you'd experience compared to the NPC corps, it's the risks that help define the game. It's the insanity of mini-napoleons trying to create empires and their failings at politics and player management that creates intriguing storyboards that you'll remember 10 years from now.
Like, in 15 years, 13 years after EvE has died, you'll not remember the details of which commodity you traded between which npc station. There is a pretty good chance you'll remember the time your CEO had a complete breakdown on voice comms because he couldn't handle his members voicing their opinions in an O SO INCREDIBLY STRESSFUL situation such as the possibility of losing internet pixel space ships.
You do what you want. Just know you're missing out on a good portion of content in your quest for safety and shelter. |
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Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
238
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Posted - 2015.10.03 12:56:46 -
[21] - Quote
I'm in a one man corp merely because I think the name is funny.
That's the entirety of my reasoning for being in a corp.
Most corps are probably full of lovely people, but I like to keep to my own agendas.
~
~~
Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox.
~~
~
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3647
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Posted - 2015.10.03 13:44:13 -
[22] - Quote
There are a few game mechanics that can help you, which are easier if you are in a corp. Web slinging: This is the practice of webbing a freighter as it is accelerating to warp. Do it right ( double web when the freighter reaches about 20% full speed) and you warp much sooner. But unless the webber has rights to shoot you, he will get CONCORDED. Being is a corp is an easy way to make sure the webber has rights to shoot. (Accepting a duel is another way). If you fleet with the webber, you can also get fleet bonuses, which can increase your resistance to ganking.
Neither of these require a corp, but being in a well organized corp of friends makes it easier.
Wars: These tend to be few and far between. You can always drop back to an NPC corp for the duration. Generally, in war I follow the rule: Don't undock except to fight the war.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope Gallente Federation
444
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Posted - 2015.10.03 14:09:53 -
[23] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:I'm in a one man corp merely because I think the name is funny.
That's the entirety of my reasoning for being in a corp.
Most corps are probably full of lovely people, but I like to keep to my own agendas. Its not funny actually. So you can close it now. |
Rexxorr
Zero Corp Tax3
90
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Posted - 2015.10.03 14:36:12 -
[24] - Quote
EVE is a collection of psychopathic seal clubbers.
EVE greatly rewards those who steal, grief, or in some manner destroy others game play.
Should you fall victim, you will receive no pity and be exposed for possessing subhuman intelligence. After all if you have any brain cells at all you never would have been a victim in the first place.
In "EVE" everyone really is out to get you.
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Thierry Orlenard
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.10.03 14:47:27 -
[25] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Hir Miriel wrote:I'm in a one man corp merely because I think the name is funny.
That's the entirety of my reasoning for being in a corp.
Most corps are probably full of lovely people, but I like to keep to my own agendas. Its not funny actually. So you can close it now.
It's more funny than yours is. |
Marech Bhayanaka
Misfits United I N G L O R I O U S
58
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Posted - 2015.10.03 21:47:15 -
[26] - Quote
As a trader, there is little reason to join a corp and a variety of reasons not too.
Trading can get dull if that is all you do, because it is quite solitary, and in large amounts quite tedious. Once your trading skills are as high as you want them, you may wish to make another character to do something else. Something that involves cooperation with other players. This character may become your main.
All of the above has been true for me.
Marech. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1840
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Posted - 2015.10.03 23:49:09 -
[27] - Quote
trading gets boring and it makes me want to shoot stuff.
as far as pvp goes, shooting corp mates in t1 frigs as a newb was some of the most fun I ever had. "ready" is a mindset more than anything else. mindlessly accumulating billions doesn't really do much, and I've seen a number of cases where it ends up in a lolsworthy kill mail.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Leeluvv
Polarized
41
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Posted - 2015.10.04 00:00:04 -
[28] - Quote
The purpose of joining a corp is to do something with other players. It isn't so they can help you, although in some circumstances they may be able to assist some players.
My brother made 7 billion ISK in 2 months trading in 1 station with a brand new character. He then got bored as he was just a trader, had no intention of ever leaving the station and was effectively just collecting a number on a screen. Luckily he gave me the ISK when he quit. |
Chopper Rollins
Lantean Empire
1106
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Posted - 2015.10.04 00:08:01 -
[29] - Quote
Rexxorr wrote:EVE is a collection of psychopathic seal clubbers. ... In "EVE" everyone really is out to get you.
As a wildly paranoid head-case i find that this is why EvE is so relaxing for me. Part of RL stress is dealing with the fact that people are only out to get you on a very low existential level and not in the concentrated, concrete way that requires action. The environment of EvE is congruent with my ragged edges, still, no need to be asocial. As posted, the memorable bits will all be to do with others.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Sibyyl
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Squids
25694
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Posted - 2015.10.04 00:09:27 -
[30] - Quote
William Adoulin wrote:I'm un-wardeccable! Totes.
And I wish I could shout you out
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