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DaJokr
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
41
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Posted - 2015.10.07 01:44:02 -
[1] - Quote
This is directed largely at wormholes, to my knowledge higgs rigs are not commonly used in kspace, please add examples if this is incorrect.
Recently there has been a large spike in using T3s, Luxury Yachts or cheap T1 cruisers with higgs riggs and oversized prop mods to "cowardroll" wormholes.
The cloaky option to submarine back to wormholes into jump range, or simply warp to a celestial and back while remaining nullified and under the 2s threshold for server tics enables nearly risk-free rolling right in the face of an entity prepared to fight.
It was my impression from the wormhole mass-distance changes the goal was to increase the risk of rolling, this completely bypasses those changes.
By removing the ability to use a microwarpdrive while a higgs rig is equipped, you dramatically reduce the effectiveness and increase the risk of cruiser rolling wormholes without completely killing battleship rolling. |
Starcruiser Stasarik
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2015.10.07 02:17:58 -
[2] - Quote
""" Halp, CCP! Other groups who don't have caps are rolling their holes! This isn't fair! Only us cap-capable wormhole groups should be allowed to roll! **** everyone else! """
Try putting some ships on the line and start smartbombing the hole entrance. Or stick insta-lockers on the celestials and grab them as they warp in to bounce. Or abandon a ****-ton of drones around the hole to decloak them like everyone else. Don't ask for a change in mechanics just because you can't take a few seconds to think of a solution.
-1 |
Justin Cody
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
307
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Posted - 2015.10.07 02:25:22 -
[3] - Quote
can't we just remove wormholes to force more people into high sec? |
Imai Kenon
Corp Tax Dodger
0
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Posted - 2015.10.07 02:25:41 -
[4] - Quote
I enjoy that your magical suggestion is to smartbomb a wormhole. Better yet, we should just put supers through and close them instantly. Both are equally good suggestions. |
Jess Tanner
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
178
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Posted - 2015.10.07 02:32:11 -
[5] - Quote
Do Wat?
Wut???
I mean really, this costs us krab kills but still.....
...
Go with Bob, keep Him always in your heart. He is your Sword, Shield, and the Knife in your back.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1256
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Posted - 2015.10.07 02:33:58 -
[6] - Quote
please remember for every group that uses these to "cowerdrole" there is another using them to role into more active holes to try and get fights
this was done long b4 higs rigs and will continue to be done if they are removed
so please
HTFU
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Starcruiser Stasarik
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2015.10.07 02:34:56 -
[7] - Quote
Imai Kenon wrote:I enjoy that your magical suggestion is to smartbomb a wormhole. Better yet, we should just put supers through and close them instantly. Both are equally good suggestions. ok Fine you can't smartbomb on a hole but the other suggestions are legit.
Grab em while they're warping in or dump a ****-ton of drones around the hole. |
Helpme Imlost
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.10.07 02:43:09 -
[8] - Quote
+1
if you're rolling there should be risk
higgs would still affect base ship mass + plates, you can still roll fine looking for content
saying that it would affect ragerolers in a huge way is just a ****** claim to protect your cowardrolling devices. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1258
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Posted - 2015.10.07 04:04:21 -
[9] - Quote
Helpme Imlost wrote:+1
if you're rolling there should be risk
higgs would still affect base ship mass + plates, you can still roll fine looking for content
saying that it would affect ragerolers in a huge way is just a ****** claim to protect your cowardrolling devices.
I read it wrong I thought you were talking about removing the mass additions
Carry on I know to little about this as I have not come across it in my hole or connecting holes yet
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
503
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Posted - 2015.10.07 10:01:41 -
[10] - Quote
DaJokr wrote: to "cowardroll" wormholes..
How is it cowardice to collapse a wormhole? You mad that you cannot gank someone specific's WH? |
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1262
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Posted - 2015.10.07 10:37:13 -
[11] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:DaJokr wrote: to "cowardroll" wormholes.. How is it cowardice to collapse a wormhole? You mad that you cannot gank someone specific's WH?
Because if I can not fight you with pew pew then anything I do to disengage makes me a coward
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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FireFrenzy
SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart.
600
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Posted - 2015.10.07 12:06:43 -
[12] - Quote
Cowardroll wormholes?
I assume you mean "nope this hole is also empty and has no sites worth doing roll it so we can maybe find something to do..." |
Nyalnara
AdAstra. Beach Club
143
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Posted - 2015.10.07 20:04:17 -
[13] - Quote
DaJokr wrote:Recently there has been a large spike in using T3s, Luxury Yachts or cheap T1 cruisers with higgs riggs and oversized prop mods to "cowardroll" wormholes.
So basically, you're whining because you cannot bubble them, and also because your group/corp/whatever is too damn bad to bring dedicated tackling ships. Meh.
In case of ponies, keep calm and start running.
French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1450
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Posted - 2015.10.07 20:33:02 -
[14] - Quote
WH started out like Mad Max and have evolved into rolling holes with cloaky-nullified-higgs proteus w/ all stabs in the lows.
You have to allow for some frustration from folks that go there to pvp. I think there is a broader general statement about the state of the game. SOV null is a big blue donut, self entitlement is at an all time high and wh are being rolled with cloaking-nullified-stabbed-higgs boats.
It's getting to the point where the game is polarizing into pvp griefers and risk averse bears. Both sides are developing a serious attitude toward the other. It's not good. The middle ground of reasonable actions is quickly evaporating. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2317
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Posted - 2015.10.07 20:56:04 -
[15] - Quote
You could remove the nullification from T3 to give you a chance at catching them too... |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
8767
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Posted - 2015.10.08 00:20:22 -
[16] - Quote
Or how about removing warp core stabs. *evil grin*
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1788
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Posted - 2015.10.08 04:23:01 -
[17] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:You could remove the nullification from T3 to give you a chance at catching them too...
Decoupling the ability to warp cloaked and the ability to be interdiction nullified would really improve the game. No ship should be able to do both those things.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1453
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Posted - 2015.10.08 14:05:58 -
[18] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:You could remove the nullification from T3 to give you a chance at catching them too... Decoupling the ability to warp cloaked and the ability to be interdiction nullified would really improve the game. No ship should be able to do both those things.
Cloaky nullified T3 have a couple of roles (wether or not they are liked by me, you or anyone else doesn't matter at this point). The only one I currently favor is the cloaky nullified over tanked cyno toting bait T3 - but htis isn't about me.
The issue at hand is oversized prop mods on higgs cruisers (which is what enables the cloaky/nullified option for trolling... er I mean rolling). The OP is asking to have an interlock to prevent installing a higgs rig and then fitting an oversized prop mod. He's looking for a small effect change to fix a niche practice.
I would love to see the message:
"Warning! Activating this device within the influence of your Higgs Field will destroy your Higgs Field generator. Do you wish to continue with this dangerous act?"
If the pilot opts to turn on his oversized prop the higgs rig gets destroyed (prior to jumping the wh). That way a player can choose to fit out a cloaky/nullified/stabbed/higgs proteus with oversized prop mod, but if he also chooses to turn that oversized prop mod on the the higgs rig goes poof.
I think this tweek would move wh rolling balance toward a better place. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2320
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Posted - 2015.10.08 14:17:53 -
[19] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:You could remove the nullification from T3 to give you a chance at catching them too... Decoupling the ability to warp cloaked and the ability to be interdiction nullified would really improve the game. No ship should be able to do both those things. Cloaky nullified T3 have a couple of roles (wether or not they are liked by me, you or anyone else doesn't matter at this point). The only one I currently favor is the cloaky nullified over tanked cyno toting bait T3 - but htis isn't about me. The issue at hand is oversized prop mods on higgs cruisers (which is what enables the cloaky/nullified option for trolling... er I mean rolling). The OP is asking to have an interlock to prevent installing a higgs rig and then fitting an oversized prop mod. He's looking for a small effect change to fix a niche practice. I would love to see the message: "Warning! Activating this device within the influence of your Higgs Field will destroy your Higgs Field generator. Do you wish to continue with this dangerous act?" If the pilot opts to turn on his oversized prop the higgs rig gets destroyed (prior to jumping the wh). That way a player can choose to fit out a cloaky/nullified/stabbed/higgs proteus with oversized prop mod, but if he also chooses to turn that oversized prop mod on the the higgs rig goes poof. I think this tweek would move wh rolling balance toward a better place.
Is this about removing some form of "coward play" ? If yes, why not remove more "coward play" at the same time?
Your idea also involve creating new code as far as I remember because there is no rig destruction modifier on any module currently existing. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1275
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Posted - 2015.10.08 15:04:04 -
[20] - Quote
Can't bait, goes to the forums to complain about a well known/established strategy. Aight.
Do you honestly think that stripping people of that option would lead to more fights? |
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1454
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Posted - 2015.10.08 15:21:11 -
[21] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:You could remove the nullification from T3 to give you a chance at catching them too... Decoupling the ability to warp cloaked and the ability to be interdiction nullified would really improve the game. No ship should be able to do both those things. Cloaky nullified T3 have a couple of roles (wether or not they are liked by me, you or anyone else doesn't matter at this point). The only one I currently favor is the cloaky nullified over tanked cyno toting bait T3 - but htis isn't about me. The issue at hand is oversized prop mods on higgs cruisers (which is what enables the cloaky/nullified option for trolling... er I mean rolling). The OP is asking to have an interlock to prevent installing a higgs rig and then fitting an oversized prop mod. He's looking for a small effect change to fix a niche practice. I would love to see the message: "Warning! Activating this device within the influence of your Higgs Field will destroy your Higgs Field generator. Do you wish to continue with this dangerous act?" If the pilot opts to turn on his oversized prop the higgs rig gets destroyed (prior to jumping the wh). That way a player can choose to fit out a cloaky/nullified/stabbed/higgs proteus with oversized prop mod, but if he also chooses to turn that oversized prop mod on the the higgs rig goes poof. I think this tweek would move wh rolling balance toward a better place. Is this about removing some form of "coward play" ? If yes, why not remove more "coward play" at the same time? Your idea also involve creating new code as far as I remember because there is no rig destruction modifier on any module currently existing.
Remove rig gives you a warning that removing a rig will destroy it and a do you want to continue yes/no button option. I'm no sysadmin, but maybe just copy that YES button code that destroys a removed rig and paste is to the YES button on the "do you wish to continue...." question I posted above. Again no sysadmin but I think you just need some code to check if you have a higgs rig when you try to activate your oversized AB on a cruiser to bring up the warning question box. The rest would be walking a path that is already travelled.
It's not about coward play. There have been changes and tweeks to how rolling a wh works over the last couple of years. For better or worse the basis (maybe not the result in all cases, but the driving force that initiated the change) - the basis is that rolling a wh should involve risk to the rolling ships.
CCP got it wrong when they got duped into the mass/range thing and tried to band aid it with introducing the higgs rig. Now we have higgs cruisers with oversized AB. Historically (see the saga of the OP ishtar) CCP doesn't go backwards to when things were right and just - they add and tweek to justify their bad. In this case 'waaaa hole roling is too safe' added mass/range to jumping a wh which pretty much killed capital rolling for all but a few large entities. BS became the new c5/c6 rolling ships. It took too long so 'waaaa it takes to long' was what was heard. In comes the higgs rig. Now we have 'waaaa cloaky nullified oversized AB cruisers' - which is where we are right now.
I didn't agree with the first 2 'waaaa this' that got us into this mess, but in the spirit of rolling a wh should have risk I'm totally behind this one. Some emergent game play (however cool and creative) goes against design goals (rolling a wh shall involve risk) and need a change. Of all the hoo haw tweeks in this subsection, this one is going straight for changing a mechanic that is against current game goals.
It's not about a subjective thing like 'coward play' it's about a game concept that rolling a wh should involve risk. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1454
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Posted - 2015.10.08 15:27:26 -
[22] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Can't bait, goes to the forums to complain about a well known/established strategy. Aight.
Do you honestly think that stripping people of that option would lead to more fights?
No it won't lead to more fights, but it will slide the risk bar towards where it should be when rolling a wh.
More fights - no.
More wonking up on guys rolling away from fights - yes. |
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