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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
570
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Posted - 2015.10.08 02:21:39 -
[31] - Quote
Kirk Ernaga wrote:Donnachadh wrote:-1 to your idea simply because CCP has repeatedly stated that they are looking at the whole attributes / implants aspect of the game. It is better for all of us for CCP to stay focused on that goal and not get distracted by making and endless string of "adjustments" as you call them.
I find myself in agreement with Mag's on this one. Attributes to me are a system that has outlived it's useful purpose and they need to go. Please quote what I said said that I would support more then 2 adjustments. I don't care how many "adjustments" you or anyone else is calling for. Any time the devs spend on "adjustments" to a failed system only delays their ability to work out and implement the TOTAL overhaul of the attribute / implant situation that we truly need. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1788
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Posted - 2015.10.08 04:10:34 -
[32] - Quote
Mag's wrote:An even easier change, would be to remove attributes from affecting skilling completely. Flat rate speed for all. I have a feeling CCP is heading in that direction, but time will tell.
By far the best change that could happen.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Kirk Ernaga
Arbiters of the Void Advent of Fate
13
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Posted - 2015.10.08 12:58:55 -
[33] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Kirk Ernaga wrote:Donnachadh wrote:-1 to your idea simply because CCP has repeatedly stated that they are looking at the whole attributes / implants aspect of the game. It is better for all of us for CCP to stay focused on that goal and not get distracted by making and endless string of "adjustments" as you call them.
I find myself in agreement with Mag's on this one. Attributes to me are a system that has outlived it's useful purpose and they need to go. Please quote what I said said that I would support more then 2 adjustments. I don't care how many "adjustments" you or anyone else is calling for. Any time the devs spend on "adjustments" to a failed system only delays their ability to work out and implement the TOTAL overhaul of the attribute / implant situation that we truly need. No you made a claim about what I said. Now be honest and back it up. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
574
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Posted - 2015.10.08 13:18:13 -
[34] - Quote
Kirk Ernaga wrote:No you made a claim about what I said. Now be honest and back it up.
OK Mister be honest and back it up here is your exact commented quoted so that you will be able to remember what you posted. Bolding, underline and italics added so you can easily find where I got the word "adjustment" from.
Next time I advise you to go back and check yourself before you call someone else out.
Kirk Ernaga wrote:Mag's wrote:An even easier change, would be to remove attributes from affecting skilling completely. Flat rate speed for all. I have a feeling CCP is heading in that direction, but time will tell. Yeah, how would removing an entire system be easier then making a small adjustment? |
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
97
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Posted - 2015.10.08 19:24:06 -
[35] - Quote
Drones have 375days worth of training with base remap and no implants (not counting bomber/fighter bombers/salvage drones/mining drones With +5 and remap its still 274.5 days to max subcap drones (only fighter/fighter bomber missing) or 375days 19hr to max everything under drones.
Its clear that drones have more than 1year worth of training with +5 and remap, the problem is that a fair bit of that is taken early on before you remap and that you stop before finishing all the skills
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
950
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Posted - 2015.10.08 19:58:38 -
[36] - Quote
Here is what Mag's is getting at, and what I agree with.
The current attribute and implant system is a bit like the med clone system, in that there is no good choices. On top of that, it is a hinderance to the design philosophy of Eve.
Few points to make.
1) Eve is supposed to favor versatility in player choice - the attribute system hinders this by suggesting (and in the case of noobs, demanding) that you remap. Yet, that remap restricts you into a training path.
2) Remaps hinder noobs more than vets - vets have enough skills under their belt to be able to dedicate a year to a set path.
3) Attribute implants hinder noobs - once you've reached a certain goal (in my case flying a Marauder to awesome effect) your training que is less important to you, thus you will spend more time in pvp due to not feeling the pressure on needing implants.
4) risk aversion - attribute implants start a player off with an item they feel, and in many cases are told, is extremely important. It makes them less likely to take risks, and in most cases leads to risk aversion as a vet.
5) Pay to Win - We all agree that we don't want people to be able to buy SP with real world cash. However, the introduction of PLEX allows players whom are wealthy IRL, to purchase an virtually unlimited supply of attribute implants. Yes, those implants can be destroyed, but the added SP they have assisted the player in attaining cannot be destroyed. They have effectively bought SP with real world cash.
Basically, remove attributes, remove attribute implants, and remove Remaps. The only time a player's SP accrue rate should be effected is when they're new.
This would have a positive effect on Eve, guaranteed. |
Kirk Ernaga
Arbiters of the Void Advent of Fate
13
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Posted - 2015.10.08 20:22:07 -
[37] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Here is what Mag's is getting at, and what I agree with.
The current attribute and implant system is a bit like the med clone system, in that there is no good choices. On top of that, it is a hinderance to the design philosophy of Eve.
Few points to make.
1) Eve is supposed to favor versatility in player choice - the attribute system hinders this by suggesting (and in the case of noobs, demanding) that you remap. Yet, that remap restricts you into a training path.
2) Remaps hinder noobs more than vets - vets have enough skills under their belt to be able to dedicate a year to a set path.
3) Attribute implants hinder noobs - once you've reached a certain goal (in my case flying a Marauder to awesome effect) your training que is less important to you, thus you will spend more time in pvp due to not feeling the pressure on needing implants.
4) risk aversion - attribute implants start a player off with an item they feel, and in many cases are told, is extremely important. It makes them less likely to take risks, and in most cases leads to risk aversion as a vet.
5) Pay to Win - We all agree that we don't want people to be able to buy SP with real world cash. However, the introduction of PLEX allows players whom are wealthy IRL, to purchase an virtually unlimited supply of attribute implants. Yes, those implants can be destroyed, but the added SP they have assisted the player in attaining cannot be destroyed. They have effectively bought SP with real world cash.
Basically, remove attributes, remove attribute implants, and remove Remaps. The only time a player's SP accrue rate should be effected is when they're new.
This would have a positive effect on Eve, guaranteed.
People seem to be confused on what I'm posting here. Im not making a comment on keeping the current system, I said before I am open to an new system and you make great points. What I do say that an elimination of the current system is a major overhaul, and because of the time and effort involved I think ccp will be putting it off for a while given they have lots on their plate. Since wither we like it or not we will be living with remaps for a while, why not tweak it make better? |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2569
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Posted - 2015.10.08 21:09:31 -
[38] - Quote
Mag's wrote:An even easier change, would be to remove attributes from affecting skilling completely. Flat rate speed for all. I have a feeling CCP is heading in that direction, but time will tell. Just have to persuade CCP that the LP stores won't suddenly keel over and die without attribute implants. Though encouraging them to give Empire stores some Implant sets of their own that are actually worth using isn't a bad thing. Even if they just come in LG form or something to keep the (bizzare) pirates being 'ahead'
They've already openly and repeatedly said they want to remove attributes throughout this year, just that they are worried about the LP stores and dealing with the current implants. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3473
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 22:03:12 -
[39] - Quote
Kirk Ernaga wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:Here is what Mag's is getting at, and what I agree with.
The current attribute and implant system is a bit like the med clone system, in that there is no good choices. On top of that, it is a hinderance to the design philosophy of Eve.
Few points to make.
1) Eve is supposed to favor versatility in player choice - the attribute system hinders this by suggesting (and in the case of noobs, demanding) that you remap. Yet, that remap restricts you into a training path.
2) Remaps hinder noobs more than vets - vets have enough skills under their belt to be able to dedicate a year to a set path.
3) Attribute implants hinder noobs - once you've reached a certain goal (in my case flying a Marauder to awesome effect) your training que is less important to you, thus you will spend more time in pvp due to not feeling the pressure on needing implants.
4) risk aversion - attribute implants start a player off with an item they feel, and in many cases are told, is extremely important. It makes them less likely to take risks, and in most cases leads to risk aversion as a vet.
5) Pay to Win - We all agree that we don't want people to be able to buy SP with real world cash. However, the introduction of PLEX allows players whom are wealthy IRL, to purchase an virtually unlimited supply of attribute implants. Yes, those implants can be destroyed, but the added SP they have assisted the player in attaining cannot be destroyed. They have effectively bought SP with real world cash.
Basically, remove attributes, remove attribute implants, and remove Remaps. The only time a player's SP accrue rate should be effected is when they're new.
This would have a positive effect on Eve, guaranteed. People seem to be confused on what I'm posting here. Im not making a comment on keeping the current system, I said before I am open to an new system and you make great points. What I do say that an elimination of the current system is a major overhaul, and because of the time and effort involved I think ccp will be putting it off for a while given they have lots on their plate. Since wither we like it or not we will be living with remaps for a while, why not tweak it make better?
Not really, set the attributes to their average level and remove the remaps and implants, there done. If players need a boost to the hourly SP rate, throw in a multiplies.
Simple and fast. That is the quick fix. Attributes might still show, but for all intents and purposes they'd be superfluous.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
950
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Posted - 2015.10.08 22:06:48 -
[40] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Mag's wrote:An even easier change, would be to remove attributes from affecting skilling completely. Flat rate speed for all. I have a feeling CCP is heading in that direction, but time will tell. Just have to persuade CCP that the LP stores won't suddenly keel over and die without attribute implants. Though encouraging them to give Empire stores some Implant sets of their own that are actually worth using isn't a bad thing. Even if they just come in LG form or something to keep the (bizzare) pirates being 'ahead' They've already openly and repeatedly said they want to remove attributes throughout this year, just that they are worried about the LP stores and dealing with the current implants.
Considering that navy hulls are slightly more than a t1 hull, I would think they could knock of a bunch of the tag requirements. When you buy navy hulls and turn around to put them on the market, there's value given to the tags, and the hull, but there's no value given to the labor you put in the gain the LP. It's essentially worth nothing. |
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
950
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Posted - 2015.10.08 22:11:59 -
[41] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
Not really, set the attributes to their average level and remove the remaps and implants, there done. If players need a boost to the hourly SP rate, throw in a multiplies.
Simple and fast. That is the quick fix. Attributes might still show, but for all intents and purposes they'd be superfluous.
IMO, there should be 000.000 multipliers that a player can apply to their training.
Give newbros modifiers for the first 2 weeks to 1 month.
Allowing the players to set modifiers just leads to the same situations that I mentioned in my above comment. |
Atomeon
The Scope Gallente Federation
50
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Posted - 2015.10.08 22:12:02 -
[42] - Quote
With max training ALL the drones skills are about 360 days (YES a year). So you missing drone skills like fighters, bombers max salvage drones, i know you even missing drone specialization 5 (Gallente, Caldari etc).
I know those skill isnt in your intresting (or your training queue, BUT some ppl are training those you know. Also not training something to max speed who said its wrong? if you go in your eve life in a speedmeter tou are working you are NOT having fun |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3473
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Posted - 2015.10.08 22:14:58 -
[43] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Mag's wrote:An even easier change, would be to remove attributes from affecting skilling completely. Flat rate speed for all. I have a feeling CCP is heading in that direction, but time will tell. Just have to persuade CCP that the LP stores won't suddenly keel over and die without attribute implants. Though encouraging them to give Empire stores some Implant sets of their own that are actually worth using isn't a bad thing. Even if they just come in LG form or something to keep the (bizzare) pirates being 'ahead' They've already openly and repeatedly said they want to remove attributes throughout this year, just that they are worried about the LP stores and dealing with the current implants.
There is that, LP are an ISK sink. Maybe replace the implants with other items first. In fact...have LP items looked at by CCP? Maybe it is time.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3473
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Posted - 2015.10.08 23:08:08 -
[44] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:
Not really, set the attributes to their average level and remove the remaps and implants, there done. If players need a boost to the hourly SP rate, throw in a multiplies.
Simple and fast. That is the quick fix. Attributes might still show, but for all intents and purposes they'd be superfluous.
IMO, there should be 000.000 multipliers that a player can apply to their training. Give newbros modifiers for the first 2 weeks to 1 month. Allowing the players to set modifiers just leads to the same situations that I mentioned in my above comment.
No, it would be a multiplier set by CCP. I think SP with averaged attributes is something like 1850 or in that ball park. If 2100 is deemed to be ideal, use
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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