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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
174
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Posted - 2015.10.18 13:31:39 -
[3091] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Portmanteau wrote:a short term cynical cash grab. it's no more of a cash grab than we already have. you either buy a character - or you buy SP packets. you won't do both. it's not a new cash grab you're just moving from character transfer revenue to skill extractor/aur revenue.
Either you're a Dev alt or someone is offering you something to do this. Which is it?
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Delegate
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
114
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Posted - 2015.10.18 13:33:06 -
[3092] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Delegate wrote:Actually it does change a lot in new player experience. After this, a player starting the game will be unable to compete not only with older players but also with those of his peers that bought SP. So he will receive a very clear message: first pay for the sub, then grid/pay for the ISK and finally pay for the progress (or be left behind). There is a major difference from character bazaar here. A player with say 2-4m SP isn't going to engage in activities targeted by a 30m SP char bough off the bazaar. But he will meet players of similar age that performs better than him, because, for example, they bought 1.2m SP in core skills. After this change retention in new subs will drop. It could change new players' perception, which unfortunately is not good.
For a moment of purely academic fun, I tried to pinpoint the difference between new player experience and how new player "perceive" the game. Academic, because we both know that the decision to keep playing comes from how you perceive the game.
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Levi Belvar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 13:33:39 -
[3093] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Big Lynx wrote:Wow, Dave. You stepping down to Gevlon Goblins and Lucas Kell's categories.... not a compliment though. but i'll always be significantly better looking, i have a beard. Levi Belvar wrote:Dave Stark
If we strip away anything virtual from the game we have two constants in play, Time and Money
A legacy character is a snapshot in time, whether 12 years ago or 6 months ago even when unsubbed its frozen in time but in no way can it be manipulated. You can add time to it but it can never be reversed. There is no deconstruction of its timeline, It is a part of the ever evolving universe of eve from a conceptual point of origin.
Now comes a fresh approach, you now want to be able to reverse engineer the timeline. You now want to be able to create elite characters from fragments of time. The convergeance of multiple time streams to manipulate this creation at speed.
The legacy approach has a one off monetary payement, the Hybrid need feeding to progress its ever increasing need for time. what does the time a character trained a skill matter?
You told me yesterday theres no difference in a bazaar character and a TSP one, there is. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4186
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 13:33:41 -
[3094] - Quote
Tristan Agion wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:I would also expect several ISK-trillionaires and also the major alliances to actively try to influence the price, either for ISK-gain or (in the alliances case) to cheaply offer SP-packs to their members. True. But the SP that will be sold is de facto dead SP. It's not being actively used, that is after all why it is being sold. The SP that is being bought is alive. Why spend ISK on it unless you want to do something with it? We may not approve of every use of that SP, and of course some will try to use this to further strengthen an already dominant position. But in the end this puts pressure on players to actually do something with their SP: dead SP becomes wasted SP. And in the long term this should increase net activity in the game, and hence the entertainment value. I'm also not convinced that this will stabilise existing power structures into boredom. Skill-boosted newbies in bling ships will not necessarily win the day, but they will deplete even significant bank accounts fast. And if skill-boosted newbies turn out to be the way to EVE dominance, then watch the pressure on newbie recruitment go insane. Newbies would then be courted by everybody with ambition and a lot of ISK. It may well make this game really attractive for newbies if there is a massive competition for them. Interesting points.
I'm naturally optimistic, and possibilities like these are what eventually sold me on this idea (after initial aversion).
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Dave Stark
7592
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Posted - 2015.10.18 13:34:23 -
[3095] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Portmanteau wrote:a short term cynical cash grab. it's no more of a cash grab than we already have. you either buy a character - or you buy SP packets. you won't do both. it's not a new cash grab you're just moving from character transfer revenue to skill extractor/aur revenue. Either you're a Dev alt or someone is offering you something to do this. Which is it?
nobody has to offer me anything to state a fact. the joy of knowing some one's incorrect argument fell apart because of it is payment enough. |
Dave Stark
7592
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 13:35:34 -
[3096] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Big Lynx wrote:Wow, Dave. You stepping down to Gevlon Goblins and Lucas Kell's categories.... not a compliment though. but i'll always be significantly better looking, i have a beard. Levi Belvar wrote:Dave Stark
If we strip away anything virtual from the game we have two constants in play, Time and Money
A legacy character is a snapshot in time, whether 12 years ago or 6 months ago even when unsubbed its frozen in time but in no way can it be manipulated. You can add time to it but it can never be reversed. There is no deconstruction of its timeline, It is a part of the ever evolving universe of eve from a conceptual point of origin.
Now comes a fresh approach, you now want to be able to reverse engineer the timeline. You now want to be able to create elite characters from fragments of time. The convergeance of multiple time streams to manipulate this creation at speed.
The legacy approach has a one off monetary payement, the Hybrid need feeding to progress its ever increasing need for time. what does the time a character trained a skill matter? You told me yesterday theres no difference in a bazaar character and a TSP one, there is.
is there?
what can a character built with skill packets do a character trained naturally and purchased on the bazaar do that the other can't?
oh right, nothing since they're the same. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4186
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 13:37:32 -
[3097] - Quote
Delegate wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Delegate wrote:Actually it does change a lot in new player experience. After this, a player starting the game will be unable to compete not only with older players but also with those of his peers that bought SP. So he will receive a very clear message: first pay for the sub, then grid/pay for the ISK and finally pay for the progress (or be left behind). There is a major difference from character bazaar here. A player with say 2-4m SP isn't going to engage in activities targeted by a 30m SP char bough off the bazaar. But he will meet players of similar age that performs better than him, because, for example, they bought 1.2m SP in core skills. After this change retention in new subs will drop. It could change new players' perception, which unfortunately is not good. For a moment of purely academic fun, I tried to pinpoint the difference between new player experience and how new player "perceive" the game. Academic, because we both know that the decision to keep playing comes from how you perceive the game. Aha... you're smart!
That's why I pointed out that everyone's priority should be to show newbs what EVE really is/can be, instead of leaving them to their false perceptions.
And anyone that understands EVE knows that SP doesn't really matter much, except as a prereq to fly some ships. But again, anyone that understands EVE knows that flying frigates can be the same or more fun than flying battleships.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
174
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 13:39:40 -
[3098] - Quote
Delegate wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Delegate wrote:Actually it does change a lot in new player experience. After this, a player starting the game will be unable to compete not only with older players but also with those of his peers that bought SP. So he will receive a very clear message: first pay for the sub, then grid/pay for the ISK and finally pay for the progress (or be left behind). There is a major difference from character bazaar here. A player with say 2-4m SP isn't going to engage in activities targeted by a 30m SP char bough off the bazaar. But he will meet players of similar age that performs better than him, because, for example, they bought 1.2m SP in core skills. After this change retention in new subs will drop. It could change new players' perception, which unfortunately is not good. For a moment of purely academic fun, I tried to pinpoint the difference between new player experience and how new player "perceive" the game. Academic, because we both know that the decision to keep playing comes from how you perceive the game.
Ah this is good. Dave can you get this? If not, reread it over and over again until you do. Then apologize for posting rubbish for the past 155+ pages in this thread. |
Jared Khanar
19
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Posted - 2015.10.18 13:40:42 -
[3099] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Jared Khanar wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Jared Khanar wrote:Simply ty sp generation non-linear to character age if on a payed account - the older the char gets - the lower the generation - newer players catching up - problem solved Ehmmmmm..... that's already the case, go check the time vs. benefit of lvl V skills. EDIT: thats a different mechanic i believe - i refer to generall / overall sp generation speed not bound to a specific skill or its level Yeah, I got that. But the only point of SP is to get skills, and the only point of skills is to do stuff and do it better. The rapidly increasing lvl I-II-III-IV-V SP requirements compared to the linear benefits that each level gives already reach the practical result you're suggesting: newbros getting closer to vets faster, in terms of what they can fly and skill-related bonuses.
Yes it is - but look around - all the ones crying about not having enough sp to do anything ... !? Ignoring the fact that a 1-5 month old character can survive and succeed even solo in low, null, wh if the player knows what he / shes doing / how fun can be gained / depending on the self choosen goals ... |
Dave Stark
7593
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 13:41:27 -
[3100] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:Delegate wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Delegate wrote:Actually it does change a lot in new player experience. After this, a player starting the game will be unable to compete not only with older players but also with those of his peers that bought SP. So he will receive a very clear message: first pay for the sub, then grid/pay for the ISK and finally pay for the progress (or be left behind). There is a major difference from character bazaar here. A player with say 2-4m SP isn't going to engage in activities targeted by a 30m SP char bough off the bazaar. But he will meet players of similar age that performs better than him, because, for example, they bought 1.2m SP in core skills. After this change retention in new subs will drop. It could change new players' perception, which unfortunately is not good. For a moment of purely academic fun, I tried to pinpoint the difference between new player experience and how new player "perceive" the game. Academic, because we both know that the decision to keep playing comes from how you perceive the game. Ah this is good. Dave can you get this? If not, reread it over and over again until you do. Then apologize for posting rubbish for the past 155+ pages in this thread.
how new players perceive the game is a complete irrelevance. it has nothing to do with the discussion.
we're talking about buying and selling SP not the NPE. |
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Interfly Ghormenheist
The Caravan Track
4
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Posted - 2015.10.18 13:42:55 -
[3101] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:Dave Stark, you had my answer. And you still have not proven my argument wrong. Dave Stark wrote:[funfact; this isn't the only place for feedback. It is the place where this discussion is taking place. I wish you would back up your claim against my argument here, in a dialectiacal way. what claim? Sorry, but it is up to you to follow the thread. If you can not keep track of the discourse, my suggestion would be to wind down your posting activity. I wish for quality instead of quantity when taking place in an argument. i have been following the thread. if you're talking about the point you made pages ago about there being no limit, i suggest YOU follow the thread as i addressed it twice since you failed to read it the first time.
I am not doubting that you have that impression. I was merely pointing out to you, that you failed to grasp the essence of my argument. Your utterly wrong paraphrase of my post above only proves my point. And strenghtens my argument further.
Last time that GÇ£greed was goodGÇ¥, the information was leaked. This time it was posted.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
174
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 13:43:38 -
[3102] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Portmanteau wrote:a short term cynical cash grab. it's no more of a cash grab than we already have. you either buy a character - or you buy SP packets. you won't do both. it's not a new cash grab you're just moving from character transfer revenue to skill extractor/aur revenue. Either you're a Dev alt or someone is offering you something to do this. Which is it? nobody has to offer me anything to state a fact. the joy of knowing some one's incorrect argument fell apart because of it is payment enough.
I see then that means you must be a Lawyer in RL and this is one of your "Bad Habits".
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Dave Stark
7593
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 13:44:08 -
[3103] - Quote
Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:I am not doubt that you have that impression. I was merely pointing out to you, that you failed to grasp the essence of my argument. Your utterly wrong paraphrase of my post above only proves my point. And strenghtens my argument further.
your argument was proven wrong by the devblog, not me. |
Dave Stark
7593
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 13:45:09 -
[3104] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:I see then that means you must be a Lawyer in RL and this is one of your "Bad Habits".
yeah, why not.
i'm a lawyer. we'll go with it.
if we've stopped trying to guess my occupation, we can always get back to discussing the devblog? |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4186
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 13:45:33 -
[3105] - Quote
Jared Khanar wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Jared Khanar wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Jared Khanar wrote:Simply ty sp generation non-linear to character age if on a payed account - the older the char gets - the lower the generation - newer players catching up - problem solved Ehmmmmm..... that's already the case, go check the time vs. benefit of lvl V skills. EDIT: thats a different mechanic i believe - i refer to generall / overall sp generation speed not bound to a specific skill or its level Yeah, I got that. But the only point of SP is to get skills, and the only point of skills is to do stuff and do it better. The rapidly increasing lvl I-II-III-IV-V SP requirements compared to the linear benefits that each level gives already reach the practical result you're suggesting: newbros getting closer to vets faster, in terms of what they can fly and skill-related bonuses. Yes it is - but look around - all the ones crying about not having enough sp to do anything ... !? Ignoring the fact that a 1-5 month old character can survive and succeed even solo in low, null, wh if the player knows what he / shes doing / how fun can be gained / depending on the self choosen goals ... How true... when I started I had a 80 kills to 120 losses ratio as a solo 1.5 month-old player in lowsec... was a blast!
Problem is, EVE is really a unique game. In almost every other game 'catching up' is indeed an issue... CCP is not doing a good enough job in making this difference clear to new players.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
Portmanteau
oooh ponies
103
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 13:53:25 -
[3106] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Delegate wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Delegate wrote:Actually it does change a lot in new player experience. After this, a player starting the game will be unable to compete not only with older players but also with those of his peers that bought SP. So he will receive a very clear message: first pay for the sub, then grid/pay for the ISK and finally pay for the progress (or be left behind). There is a major difference from character bazaar here. A player with say 2-4m SP isn't going to engage in activities targeted by a 30m SP char bough off the bazaar. But he will meet players of similar age that performs better than him, because, for example, they bought 1.2m SP in core skills. After this change retention in new subs will drop. It could change new players' perception, which unfortunately is not good. For a moment of purely academic fun, I tried to pinpoint the difference between new player experience and how new player "perceive" the game. Academic, because we both know that the decision to keep playing comes from how you perceive the game. Ah this is good. Dave can you get this? If not, reread it over and over again until you do. Then apologize for posting rubbish for the past 155+ pages in this thread. how new players perceive the game is a complete irrelevance. it has nothing to do with the discussion. we're talking about buying and selling SP not the NPE.
It is totally relevant, if this goes live it will affect the NPE to deny that is ridiculous. How it will be perceived is open to debate, but I think a fair case can be made that many will see buying skillpoints as necessary.
|
Dave Stark
7593
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 13:55:17 -
[3107] - Quote
Portmanteau wrote:It is totally relevant, if this goes live it will affect the NPE to deny that is ridiculous. How it will be perceived is open to debate, but I think a fair case can be made that many will see buying skillpoints as necessary.
the idea isn't anything new. buying and selling sp has already existed. if people are turned off buy it they've already been turned off. likewise if they're a fan of the idea. |
Jared Khanar
20
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Posted - 2015.10.18 13:56:47 -
[3108] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote: the idea isn't anything new. buying and selling sp has already existed. if people are turned off buy it they've already been turned off. likewise if they're a fan of the idea.
How can we already BUY and SELL SP (not characters - sp!) Even after all these years i-¦m here i haven-¦t heard of it - please teach me |
Robert Sawyer
The Vendunari End of Life
75
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 13:57:11 -
[3109] - Quote
Oh God, please no... No! No! NOOOOOO!!!!
On a serious side note, this whole sh*t is practically "SP for real life money". This will introduce a pay-to-win philosophy that will drive noobs and veterans alike away from the game as literally EVERYBODY will be able to do anything - you'll have new players buying PLEX and the SP to fly Dreadnoughts within days.
This will f*ck up sovereignty, PvE and PvP gameplay. DO NOT DO THIS CCP OR I SWEAR TO GOD THAT I WILL QUIT.
"And when, at last, the moment is yours, that agony will become your greatest triumph."
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Dave Stark
7594
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 13:58:01 -
[3110] - Quote
Jared Khanar wrote:Dave Stark wrote: the idea isn't anything new. buying and selling sp has already existed. if people are turned off buy it they've already been turned off. likewise if they're a fan of the idea.
How can we already BUY and SELL SP (not characters - sp!) Even after all these years i-¦m here i haven-¦t heard of it - please teach me
do i really have to wheel out the still unanswered "which system am i describing" question?
really? |
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4186
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 13:58:13 -
[3111] - Quote
Portmanteau wrote:It is totally relevant, if this goes live it will affect the NPE to deny that is ridiculous. How it will be perceived is open to debate, but I think a fair case can be made that many will see buying skillpoints as necessary. Necessary for what?
Flying after 1 day ships that everybody else in 12 years of EVE flew after 6 months?
How can that be necessary, as opposed to optional, if countless players in EVE history survived perfectly and had fun without this new SP-trading thing?
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
Portmanteau
oooh ponies
103
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 13:59:35 -
[3112] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Portmanteau wrote:It is totally relevant, if this goes live it will affect the NPE to deny that is ridiculous. How it will be perceived is open to debate, but I think a fair case can be made that many will see buying skillpoints as necessary.
the idea isn't anything new. buying and selling sp has already existed. if people are turned off buy it they've already been turned off. likewise if they're a fan of the idea.
The quantity is what's new, as you like saying so often, it's in the dev blog, the granular nature of these skill packets will make it more normal for new guys to buy them where it would be less usual to buy an entire character. This comes with a downside as new guys who can't afford a sub and skill packets will see their immediate peers (as someone else already pointed out) advancing more quickly than them. Your argument is obtuse and fails to recognise the importance of how new players perceive things.
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4186
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 13:59:51 -
[3113] - Quote
Robert Sawyer wrote:Oh God, please no... No! No! NOOOOOO!!!!
On a serious side note, this whole sh*t is practically "SP for real life money". This will introduce a pay-to-win philosophy that will drive noobs and veterans alike away from the game as literally EVERYBODY will be able to do anything - you'll have new players buying PLEX and the SP to fly Dreadnoughts within days.
This will f*ck up sovereignty, PvE and PvP gameplay. DO NOT DO THIS CCP OR I SWEAR TO GOD THAT I WILL QUIT. I totally look forward to more noobs in blingy ships in Black Rise.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Interfly Ghormenheist
The Caravan Track
5
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 13:59:55 -
[3114] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:I am not doubt that you have that impression. I was merely pointing out to you, that you failed to grasp the essence of my argument. Your utterly wrong paraphrase of my post above only proves my point. And strenghtens my argument further.
your argument was proven wrong by the devblog, not me.
Actually the devblog did not deal with my argument. You are mixing up cause and effect here. Exact thinking will be necessary if you want to take place in this discourse. I gave you a very specifc answer to your argument. If you wish to continue giving your subjective evaluations en masse here, avoiding to take up the actual argument you are of course free to do so.
Please be advised that my actual response to you is still uncontradicted in this case. You would not be the only one thinking along this line by the way. Most of the arguments by the dopers in this forum and others are substantially wrong. See my original post in this thread.
Last time that GÇ£greed was goodGÇ¥, the information was leaked. This time it was posted.
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Levi Belvar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 14:00:11 -
[3115] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Jared Khanar wrote:Dave Stark wrote: the idea isn't anything new. buying and selling sp has already existed. if people are turned off buy it they've already been turned off. likewise if they're a fan of the idea.
How can we already BUY and SELL SP (not characters - sp!) Even after all these years i-¦m here i haven-¦t heard of it - please teach me do i really have to wheel out the still unanswered "which system am i describing" question? really?
Yes because ive answered your question earlier to which i doubt you even read properly about bazaar Vs TSP and its vastly different |
Jared Khanar
20
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 14:00:48 -
[3116] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Jared Khanar wrote:Dave Stark wrote: the idea isn't anything new. buying and selling sp has already existed. if people are turned off buy it they've already been turned off. likewise if they're a fan of the idea.
How can we already BUY and SELL SP (not characters - sp!) Even after all these years i-¦m here i haven-¦t heard of it - please teach me do i really have to wheel out the still unanswered "which system am i describing" question? really?
Yes, please be gracious to this stupid person i am most of the time :) |
Sgt Ocker
Military Bustards
727
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 14:01:06 -
[3117] - Quote
If we base a skill packet on 500k SP, an optimal remap and +4's = 1 every 8 days @ 300 mil cost + skill books (based on current plex prices). Then you have the additional cost of the GÇÿTransneural Skill PacketGÇÖ to enable you to sell those SP. 100 mil has been thrown about a lot as a good price for this product;
If the GÇÿTransneural Skill PacketGÇÖ is available on the market for 100 mil (dependent on how much CCP decide to sell them for and Aurum market prices), your looking at a break even price of around 400 mil for that 500k SP on the market. A little under 1 isk per SP and that is only until players decide they want to make more isk from their unwanted but now marketable SP, at which time the market prices will steadily rise. I would estimate a price of between 650 and 700 mil after about 3 months, starting at around 900 mil at release.
This is Eve, when it comes to making isk everyone wants optimal income, so players with SP they want to sell will want to make as much as possible from that sale. What ever CCP's intention, these skill packages are not going to be cheap.
-- - -- - -- - -- - -- As for the new player retention aspect and skill points added for established characters; Trial account starts out with 1 mil unallocated SP with another 2 mil added at the time it becomes a subscription Include links to EveMon, EveHq, etc in a startup information package. 3 GÇô 10 million skillpoints = 500,000 skillpoints added - Unlimited use 10 GÇô 50 million skillpoints = 400,000 skillpoints added - Unlimited use to 50 mil SP 50 GÇô 80 million skillpoints = 350,000 skillpoints added - Limited to 6 in a 12 month period > 80 million skillpoints = 250,000 skillpoints added - Limited to 4 in a 12 month period
You want to maintain the "prestige" of dedicating time, effort and money into a single highly skilled account - The skill packets need to offer an incentive to do so. 50k SP is less than 24hrs of training time - You are essentially telling players that once they reach 80,000,001 SP - We no longer care about you. (not every 100 mil SP account holder is space rich, some don't care about being rich but want the same opportunity as others to build their accounts)
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode -
Vice Admiral, Forum Dictator, Arrogant Nobody
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Interfly Ghormenheist
The Caravan Track
5
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Posted - 2015.10.18 14:02:23 -
[3118] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Jared Khanar wrote:Dave Stark wrote: the idea isn't anything new. buying and selling sp has already existed. if people are turned off buy it they've already been turned off. likewise if they're a fan of the idea.
How can we already BUY and SELL SP (not characters - sp!) Even after all these years i-¦m here i haven-¦t heard of it - please teach me do i really have to wheel out the still unanswered "which system am i describing" question? really?
Yes, you do. Otherwise you will not be taken for serious.
Last time that GÇ£greed was goodGÇ¥, the information was leaked. This time it was posted.
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Portmanteau
oooh ponies
103
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 14:03:21 -
[3119] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Portmanteau wrote:It is totally relevant, if this goes live it will affect the NPE to deny that is ridiculous. How it will be perceived is open to debate, but I think a fair case can be made that many will see buying skillpoints as necessary. Necessary for what? Flying after 1 day ships that everybody else in 12 years of EVE flew after 6 months? How can that be necessary, as opposed to optional, if countless players in EVE history survived perfectly and had fun without this new SP-trading thing?
Perception vs reality, surely you can't deny that despite it not being true, many new player and and plenty of older player in this very thread percieve a need for skillpoints. The fact it's not necessarily true doesn't matter, the fact it is a common perception is important and relevant to how this change will be received. Not everyone comes into this game fully versed on the nuances of EvE life. Some never learn it.
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Dave Stark
7594
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Posted - 2015.10.18 14:03:50 -
[3120] - Quote
Portmanteau wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Portmanteau wrote:It is totally relevant, if this goes live it will affect the NPE to deny that is ridiculous. How it will be perceived is open to debate, but I think a fair case can be made that many will see buying skillpoints as necessary.
the idea isn't anything new. buying and selling sp has already existed. if people are turned off buy it they've already been turned off. likewise if they're a fan of the idea. The quantity is what's new, as you like saying so often, it's in the dev blog, the granular nature of these skill packets will make it more normal for new guys to buy them where it would be less usual to buy an entire character. This comes with a downside as new guys who can't afford a sub and skill packets will see their immediate peers (as someone else already pointed out) advancing more quickly than them. Your argument is obtuse and fails to recognise the importance of how new players perceive things.
he's going to see some one buy SP packets, or a new character. if some one is going to pay to advance, they're going to pay to advance. pretending that'll only be the case because we're now selling SP a different way is laughable.
if he can't afford to pay to advance and his peers can, he will be left behind regardless of whether or not this system is added to the game.
i don't fail to recognise the importance, you fail to recognise it already exists and isn't new. |
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