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Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate
1522
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 08:52:29 -
[3961] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:a SP packet will never cost more than 1/4 plex + extractor cost to produce. ever. it doesn't matter what the market price is. just pull it from an alt's head, there's never a situation where you will *have* to pull it out of your own head and thus your skill progression is never hampered.
this is no different to saying "if ccp want to introduce this "plex idea" then all teh ebils will charge you 1 plex per month to rent and people will be forced to open their wallets and pay real money to rent!!!!".
I think the main reason for where we're not in agreement is I think that so far as SP goes, I don't think there is a direct ISK : SP equivalence in terms of the *selling* SP portion.
I understand exactly where you're coming from regarding the interchangeability of commodities. I think the difference is that when up against a wall and with no means to pay the ISK, the value of "unused" SP to a person intrinsically goes down where as goods and services always retain the same value, give or take a few percent for the difference in buy/sell. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
1290
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 08:52:45 -
[3962] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:[img]http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68656/1/skilltrade1_550.jpg[/img] The Character Bazaar has been around for a while, allowing enterprising players to buy and sell characters from others. Lately, we've been exploring some new ideas around improving it, but ultimately realized that our effort was better spent investigating a similar idea: skill trading. This is a pretty big thing, so make sure you read the entire dev blog, and let us know what you think of the ideas inside. Please also read this reminder on our forum rules ~ ISD Decoy
fine for me
Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
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Dave Stark
7621
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:01:02 -
[3963] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:Dave Stark wrote:a SP packet will never cost more than 1/4 plex + extractor cost to produce. ever. it doesn't matter what the market price is. just pull it from an alt's head, there's never a situation where you will *have* to pull it out of your own head and thus your skill progression is never hampered.
this is no different to saying "if ccp want to introduce this "plex idea" then all teh ebils will charge you 1 plex per month to rent and people will be forced to open their wallets and pay real money to rent!!!!". I think the main reason for where we're not in agreement is I think that so far as SP goes, I don't think there is a direct ISK : SP equivalence in terms of the *selling* SP portion. I understand exactly where you're coming from regarding the interchangeability of commodities. I think the difference is that when up against a wall and with no means to pay the ISK, the value of "unused" SP to a person intrinsically goes down where as goods (ships, modules, isk) services always retain the same value, give or take a few percent for the difference in buy/sell.
but there is a direct isk:sp cost price.
we know that you can produce 500,000SP in 7.7 days. that's how the game mechanics work. we know that 7.7 days of gametime has an isk value. that's 7.7/30 * plex price.
therefore we know exactly what the cost of SP is in isk.
if it's cheaper to buy than produce, then you buy it and give it to your landlord. if it's cheaper to produce it, then you produce it. you always know that the most you're ever going to pay is ~1/4 plex + extractor. both of those things have an isk price.
if you choose to use spare SP you don't need to pay landlords that's fine - the issue i was addressing was that a previous poster claimed they would "force" people to pay in SP - to which i say "so what? it's no different from a monthly isk bill". |
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
57
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:08:07 -
[3964] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:"You, renter scum, you will contribute to your protection by providing us with 5 million SP per month as tribute." which is different to "i'm going to spend your 3bn isk/month rental fee on skill points in jita. thanks guys."? if people ask for SP as payment you just buy it from the market - which is no different than just being flat out asked for a direct isk transfer, which is far less hassle.
The point being made is you cant ask for that now, but when / if it does happen they can and regardless of what the payment was before if its 10 they want they can use it for there own players to increase in skill, which they cant do now at present. |
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
247
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:09:56 -
[3965] - Quote
General Lootit wrote:Sentient Blade wrote: In a game that is already quite difficult for newer players, and a game seriously struggling with retention, I fear that this will seem as an almost certain pay-to-win barrier that new players feel they must pay, just to get a leg up, and that it will send a bad signal to them. Of course, I know that in EVE there is no true "pay to win" but I do worry about perceptions.
My perception is earn more isk to be less bored from waiting for training quee. So it's encoroug me to paticapate in the game and not waiting offline until quee is done. If you have run out of things to do then that is not the games fault but due to your own lack of imagination, sorry but it is just a weak and childish excuse.
I have always had the opposite situation myself. Of course there are moments when you think I wish I had that skill to level V and such, but I've never been short of goals which I have yet to achieve. Broaden your horizons.
Suggestion for a rebalance of ECM - Modulated ECM Effects
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
247
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:13:52 -
[3966] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:More importantly, you can ensure they're produced at a lower price than if you bought them directly off the market. ok it's early... how? the first thing a renter will do is say "ok you want 5m sp, that's 10 packets, that's 3bn isk to buy. my rent is 3bn per month." followed by "my rent has just gone up by 500m per month, i only used to pay 2.5bn". you don't change the cost of anything, you're just hiking the prices of rental fees. in addition to that you no longer control your rental fees - jita's market does. It would depend very much on how much the skill packets cost, and what the extractors cost. If the prices are extremely high, which they likely would be once the initial flood of massive over-supply had dwindled, then even modest amounts of renter-SP demands would lead to people preferring to pull skills out their own heads rather than bankrupting themselves by buying directly from Jita. It is of course unsustainable if not properly managed, but certain groups in EVE are very skilled at managing such things. Surrendering player skills you're not at-that-moment urgently in need of, to avoid catching heat from some other direction, is something that a lot of people in EVE would feel was a necessary trade off where the alternative was paying a colossal sum of ISK. a SP packet will never cost more than 1/4 plex + extractor cost to produce. ever. it doesn't matter what the market price is. just pull it from an alt's head, there's never a situation where you will *have* to pull it out of your own head and thus your skill progression is never hampered. Your making the mistake again of directly correlating skill packets to PLEX, two completely different things. The price of skill packets will be based on supply and demand, the only think you can guarantee is that it won't go below the cost of the extractor.
Suggestion for a rebalance of ECM - Modulated ECM Effects
|
beakerax
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
202
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:15:12 -
[3967] - Quote
Checking in to say that I'm still generally against this except in the case of demanding rent in sp, which amuses me greatly.
The payments would need to be API verified against the renter's character sheet, of course. |
Dave Stark
7621
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:16:27 -
[3968] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:"You, renter scum, you will contribute to your protection by providing us with 5 million SP per month as tribute." which is different to "i'm going to spend your 3bn isk/month rental fee on skill points in jita. thanks guys."? if people ask for SP as payment you just buy it from the market - which is no different than just being flat out asked for a direct isk transfer, which is far less hassle. The point being made is you cant ask for that now, but when / if it does happen they can and regardless of what the payment was before if its 10 they want they can use it for there own players to increase in skill, which they cant do now at present.
if they want to use their own players in skill they can just use the rental income to buy packets, or plex farming accounts.
if they wanted to, landlords could ask for their rent in plex, or robotics, or megathrons, or prostitutes. |
Dave Stark
7621
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:20:21 -
[3969] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:More importantly, you can ensure they're produced at a lower price than if you bought them directly off the market. ok it's early... how? the first thing a renter will do is say "ok you want 5m sp, that's 10 packets, that's 3bn isk to buy. my rent is 3bn per month." followed by "my rent has just gone up by 500m per month, i only used to pay 2.5bn". you don't change the cost of anything, you're just hiking the prices of rental fees. in addition to that you no longer control your rental fees - jita's market does. It would depend very much on how much the skill packets cost, and what the extractors cost. If the prices are extremely high, which they likely would be once the initial flood of massive over-supply had dwindled, then even modest amounts of renter-SP demands would lead to people preferring to pull skills out their own heads rather than bankrupting themselves by buying directly from Jita. It is of course unsustainable if not properly managed, but certain groups in EVE are very skilled at managing such things. Surrendering player skills you're not at-that-moment urgently in need of, to avoid catching heat from some other direction, is something that a lot of people in EVE would feel was a necessary trade off where the alternative was paying a colossal sum of ISK. a SP packet will never cost more than 1/4 plex + extractor cost to produce. ever. it doesn't matter what the market price is. just pull it from an alt's head, there's never a situation where you will *have* to pull it out of your own head and thus your skill progression is never hampered. Your making the mistake again of directly correlating skill packets to PLEX, two completely different things. The price of skill packets will be based on supply and demand, the only think you can guarantee is that it won't go below the cost of the extractor.
it's not a mistake.
the two are different things but it doesn't matter. the price of a skill packet will never be higher than the price i just pointed out for the reasons i just pointed out.
if some one asks you for skill packets as payment you can easily work out what that will cost you to obtain. if supply and demand make SP packets cost more than production costs you can bypass the market entirely and create your own with SP farms of which the barrier to entry is pretty much just "create a new account".
as such you always know the maximum isk price you are being asked to pay. |
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
57
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:20:36 -
[3970] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:"You, renter scum, you will contribute to your protection by providing us with 5 million SP per month as tribute." which is different to "i'm going to spend your 3bn isk/month rental fee on skill points in jita. thanks guys."? if people ask for SP as payment you just buy it from the market - which is no different than just being flat out asked for a direct isk transfer, which is far less hassle. The point being made is you cant ask for that now, but when / if it does happen they can and regardless of what the payment was before if its 10 they want they can use it for there own players to increase in skill, which they cant do now at present. if they want to use their own players in skill they can just use the rental income to buy packets, or plex farming accounts. if they wanted to, landlords could ask for their rent in plex, or robotics, or megathrons, or prostitutes.
Rent 3 billion
Right scum as were looking after you your also going to have to stump up 5 mill TSP a month < Extortion but still legal in EvE its a commodity now so as such not covered by anti scam |
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Dave Stark
7621
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:23:23 -
[3971] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:"You, renter scum, you will contribute to your protection by providing us with 5 million SP per month as tribute." which is different to "i'm going to spend your 3bn isk/month rental fee on skill points in jita. thanks guys."? if people ask for SP as payment you just buy it from the market - which is no different than just being flat out asked for a direct isk transfer, which is far less hassle. The point being made is you cant ask for that now, but when / if it does happen they can and regardless of what the payment was before if its 10 they want they can use it for there own players to increase in skill, which they cant do now at present. if they want to use their own players in skill they can just use the rental income to buy packets, or plex farming accounts. if they wanted to, landlords could ask for their rent in plex, or robotics, or megathrons, or prostitutes. Rent 3 billion Right scum as were looking after you your also going to have to stump up 5 mill TSP a month < Extortion but still legal in EvE its a commodity now so as such not covered by anti scam
so they buy 5m SP worth of TSPs for another 3bn, they pay a total of 6bn isk for a month's rent. that's no different to just saying "pay us 6bn isk a month so we can buy some TSPs on the market please." |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
8
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:24:07 -
[3972] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:General Lootit wrote:Sentient Blade wrote: In a game that is already quite difficult for newer players, and a game seriously struggling with retention, I fear that this will seem as an almost certain pay-to-win barrier that new players feel they must pay, just to get a leg up, and that it will send a bad signal to them. Of course, I know that in EVE there is no true "pay to win" but I do worry about perceptions.
My perception is earn more isk to be less bored from waiting for training quee. So it's encoroug me to paticapate in the game and not waiting offline until quee is done. If you have run out of things to do then that is not the games fault but due to your own lack of imagination, sorry but it is just a weak and childish excuse. I have always had the opposite situation myself. Of course there are moments when you think I wish I had that skill to level V and such, but I've never been short of goals which I have yet to achieve. Broaden your horizons. I doesn't excusing for my opinion. I didn't run out of things to do. I have plan and budget for it. I'm not going to change it because some stranger told me to do so. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
444
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:27:10 -
[3973] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:if supply and demand make SP packets cost more than production costs you can bypass the market entirely and create your own with SP farms of which the barrier to entry is pretty much just "create a new account".
Lost here, why would I create new account? I can't strip SP from alt below 5 mil.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
|
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
57
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:28:33 -
[3974] - Quote
Dave,
Sometimes your dense, You cant at present bolster an alliances players by making them stronger with skillpoints. To either increase there numbers,alts , inceasing there lower players to jump into bigger and better kit instantly |
Dave Stark
7621
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:33:07 -
[3975] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:Dave,
Sometimes your dense, You cant at present bolster an alliances players by making them stronger with skillpoints. To either increase there numbers,alts , inceasing there lower players to jump into big and better kit.
yes you can, buy by characters for them. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
444
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:40:42 -
[3976] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:by the time you've gone through the trial, and the 30 days gametime required to create a full account that's 2 months. you're almost already at that 5m SP limit and thus you have a character you can farm for SP at lower than market price (and once market price dips below cost price you just stop subscribing it). edit: pretty sure with power of 2 you'll be at 5m SP for "free" as you're paying 3 plex for 6 months is it?
personal SP farm(s) ensures that you are never in a situation where you will ever have to pay above cost price for SP.
which would be a prudent thing to do if for some strange reason you're being asked to pay rent in SP packets every month. Thank you. Just found another possible exploit. Alt farm.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
|
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
57
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:40:49 -
[3977] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:Dave,
Sometimes your dense, You cant at present bolster an alliances players by making them stronger with skillpoints. To either increase there numbers,alts , inceasing there lower players to jump into big and better kit. yes you can, buy by characters for them. As pointed out before though, those come with all the baggage associated with a bazaar toon, instaspawn do not which is irrelevant when all that character is for is amassing players that can all get max dps when they press f1. how many corps that character scammed/stole/awoxed doesn't make the number on that fitting window any lower or higher.
I would of thought the main reason bought up yesterday was enough in itself, intel and watchlists are pretty much redundant now. |
Dave Stark
7621
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:42:50 -
[3978] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Dave Stark wrote:by the time you've gone through the trial, and the 30 days gametime required to create a full account that's 2 months. you're almost already at that 5m SP limit and thus you have a character you can farm for SP at lower than market price (and once market price dips below cost price you just stop subscribing it). edit: pretty sure with power of 2 you'll be at 5m SP for "free" as you're paying 3 plex for 6 months is it?
personal SP farm(s) ensures that you are never in a situation where you will ever have to pay above cost price for SP.
which would be a prudent thing to do if for some strange reason you're being asked to pay rent in SP packets every month. Thank you. Just found another possible exploit. Alt farm.
not a new thing - people already start accounts just to train a character to sell on the bazaar. characters that have no baggage, corp history, etc.
completely clean and focused characters created expressly for the purpose of being turned in to isk. pretty sure mr.epeen who was posting earlier is some one who does this, along with many others. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1771
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:43:53 -
[3979] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:Dave Stark wrote:if supply and demand make SP packets cost more than production costs you can bypass the market entirely and create your own with SP farms of which the barrier to entry is pretty much just "create a new account".
Lost here, why would I create new account? I can't strip SP from alt below 5 mil. by the time you've gone through the trial, and the 30 days gametime required to create a full account that's 2 months. you're almost already at that 5m SP limit and thus you have a character you can farm for SP at lower than market price (and once market price dips below cost price you just stop subscribing it). edit: pretty sure with power of 2 you'll be at 5m SP for "free" as you're paying 3 plex for 6 months is it? personal SP farm(s) ensures that you are never in a situation where you will ever have to pay above cost price for SP. which would be a prudent thing to do if for some strange reason you're being asked to pay rent in SP packets every month.
So you are saying this idea is good and actually advocating people create alts purely for SP farming?
OK, everyone will be able to do that. Except they won't as not everyone has the ISK or RL cash to do so. Thus those who are RL or space rich will gain the advantage of practically instant perfect skills in whatever FotM ship is around after any rebalance, The rest of the players of the game just plod along at a now seemingly slower rate (which is in fact no slower than now but this change will create that perception).
Messing with the SP system is plainly not a good idea. It is one of the few things in the game that has consistently worked and worked well. It sets EvE apart from other MMO's and I for one do not want EvE to be 'like every other MMO out there'.
You can be sure that goons et al already have several plans to make this system reinforce their stranglehold over certain areas of space/the game. It's what they are good at and as long as it's within the rules they are perfectly within their rights to do so. that doesn't however make the game any better for the rest of us. |
Dave Stark
7621
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:46:51 -
[3980] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:Dave Stark wrote:if supply and demand make SP packets cost more than production costs you can bypass the market entirely and create your own with SP farms of which the barrier to entry is pretty much just "create a new account".
Lost here, why would I create new account? I can't strip SP from alt below 5 mil. by the time you've gone through the trial, and the 30 days gametime required to create a full account that's 2 months. you're almost already at that 5m SP limit and thus you have a character you can farm for SP at lower than market price (and once market price dips below cost price you just stop subscribing it). edit: pretty sure with power of 2 you'll be at 5m SP for "free" as you're paying 3 plex for 6 months is it? personal SP farm(s) ensures that you are never in a situation where you will ever have to pay above cost price for SP. which would be a prudent thing to do if for some strange reason you're being asked to pay rent in SP packets every month. So you are saying this idea is good and actually advocating people create alts purely for SP farming? OK, everyone will be able to do that. Except they won't as not everyone has the ISK or RL cash to do so. Thus those who are RL or space rich will gain the advantage of practically instant perfect skills in whatever FotM ship is around after any rebalance, The rest of the players of the game just plod along at a now seemingly slower rate (which is in fact no slower than now but this change will create that perception). Messing with the SP system is plainly not a good idea. It is one of the few things in the game that has consistently worked and worked well. It sets EvE apart from other MMO's and I for one do not want EvE to be 'like every other MMO out there'. You can be sure that goons et al already have several plans to make this system reinforce their stranglehold over certain areas of space/the game. It's what they are good at and as long as it's within the rules they are perfectly within their rights to do so. that doesn't however make the game any better for the rest of us.
i don't need to advocate it - people already do.
if you don't have the isk or RL cash to create an SP farm - you don't have the isk or cash to pay rent to a landlord - so it doesn't matter.
the rich already have that advantage by buying from the character bazaar. |
|
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
249
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:48:49 -
[3981] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:if supply and demand make SP packets cost more than production costs you can bypass the market entirely and create your own with SP farms of which the barrier to entry is pretty much just "create a new account". And setting up a SP farm requires capital investment and time. If a big alliance buys out all the SP packets for instance then price will spike until demand can catch up. It is what happens in the eve markets all the time already.
Suggestion for a rebalance of ECM - Modulated ECM Effects
|
Dave Stark
7621
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:52:48 -
[3982] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Dave Stark wrote:if supply and demand make SP packets cost more than production costs you can bypass the market entirely and create your own with SP farms of which the barrier to entry is pretty much just "create a new account". And setting up a SP farm requires capital investment and time. If a big alliance buys out all the SP packets for instance then price will spike until demand can catch up. It is what happens in the eve markets all the time already.
by setting up an SP farm takes, as i said, a little over two months. with power of 2 getting to the point where that farm is functional is essentially "free" if i have my prices/duration on power of 2 correct (been a while since i made a new alt).
buying out all the sp packets is irrelevant - you're bypassing the market by setting up your own farm anyway.
you're acting like large alliances are intentionally going to try and not get paid and destroy their own rental empires - which in itself is illogical as all hell. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
444
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:53:03 -
[3983] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:not a new thing - people already start accounts just to train a character to sell on the bazaar. characters that have no baggage, corp history, etc.
completely clean and focused characters created expressly for the purpose of being turned in to isk. pretty sure mr.epeen who was posting earlier is some one who does this, along with many others. I was thinking about boosting main char by farming free alts, just by cost of extractor. For low level char that may be a thing.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
|
Dave Stark
7621
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:54:15 -
[3984] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Dave Stark wrote:not a new thing - people already start accounts just to train a character to sell on the bazaar. characters that have no baggage, corp history, etc.
completely clean and focused characters created expressly for the purpose of being turned in to isk. pretty sure mr.epeen who was posting earlier is some one who does this, along with many others. I was thinking about boosting main char by farming free alts, just by cost of extractor. For low level char that may be a thing.
sp you farm yourself isn't free (this is literally going to be the new "minerals i mine myself are free" **** isn't it?). you still need to plex the accounts/dual train those characters. |
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
57
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:55:43 -
[3985] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:Dave Stark wrote:if supply and demand make SP packets cost more than production costs you can bypass the market entirely and create your own with SP farms of which the barrier to entry is pretty much just "create a new account".
Lost here, why would I create new account? I can't strip SP from alt below 5 mil. by the time you've gone through the trial, and the 30 days gametime required to create a full account that's 2 months. you're almost already at that 5m SP limit and thus you have a character you can farm for SP at lower than market price (and once market price dips below cost price you just stop subscribing it). edit: pretty sure with power of 2 you'll be at 5m SP for "free" as you're paying 3 plex for 6 months is it? personal SP farm(s) ensures that you are never in a situation where you will ever have to pay above cost price for SP. which would be a prudent thing to do if for some strange reason you're being asked to pay rent in SP packets every month. So you are saying this idea is good and actually advocating people create alts purely for SP farming? OK, everyone will be able to do that. Except they won't as not everyone has the ISK or RL cash to do so. Thus those who are RL or space rich will gain the advantage of practically instant perfect skills in whatever FotM ship is around after any rebalance, The rest of the players of the game just plod along at a now seemingly slower rate (which is in fact no slower than now but this change will create that perception). Messing with the SP system is plainly not a good idea. It is one of the few things in the game that has consistently worked and worked well. It sets EvE apart from other MMO's and I for one do not want EvE to be 'like every other MMO out there'. You can be sure that goons et al already have several plans to make this system reinforce their stranglehold over certain areas of space/the game. It's what they are good at and as long as it's within the rules they are perfectly within their rights to do so. that doesn't however make the game any better for the rest of us. i don't need to advocate it - people already do. if you don't have the isk or RL cash to create an SP farm - you don't have the isk or cash to pay rent to a landlord - so it doesn't matter. the rich already have that advantage by buying from the character bazaar.
Anything thats put on the bazaar whether its an old toon or a fresh tengu pilot that has been just trained instation and nothing else has to have its name listed on the bazaar for selling, you then watch when its sold, what corp it joins, where its located.
Thats all gone now, instaspawn toons are an invisible entity. |
General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
8
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:56:01 -
[3986] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Dave Stark wrote:if supply and demand make SP packets cost more than production costs you can bypass the market entirely and create your own with SP farms of which the barrier to entry is pretty much just "create a new account". And setting up a SP farm requires capital investment and time. If a big alliance buys out all the SP packets for instance then price will spike until demand can catch up. It is what happens in the eve markets all the time already. Then new farmers will come because it become more profitable hence price will go down. Also need to consider that EVE have many allinces which are constantly fighting against each other. |
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
249
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:59:05 -
[3987] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Dave Stark wrote:if supply and demand make SP packets cost more than production costs you can bypass the market entirely and create your own with SP farms of which the barrier to entry is pretty much just "create a new account". And setting up a SP farm requires capital investment and time. If a big alliance buys out all the SP packets for instance then price will spike until demand can catch up. It is what happens in the eve markets all the time already. by setting up an SP farm takes, as i said, a little over two months probably three. with power of 2 getting to the point where that farm is functional is essentially "free" if i have my prices/duration on power of 2 correct (been a while since i made a new alt). buying out all the sp packets is irrelevant - you're bypassing the market by setting up your own farm anyway. you're acting like large alliances are intentionally going to try and not get paid and destroy their own rental empires - which in itself is illogical as all hell. I'm not talking about rental empires. I don't think they'll ask for SP in payment anyway, although the inhabitants could feel pressured into converting their own SP to ISK for payment though if they don't have enough liquid ISK to hand. But I couldn't care less about renters anyway.
I'm just pulling you up on the mistake you made when you asserted than skill packets could never go higher in price than the cost of 1/4 PLEX plus an extractor. You would be right if you said that SP packets should never stabilise above 1/4 plex + extractor, but markets spike and decline all the time so they could easily go over that price for a period of time until demand can catch up.
Personally I think there would be oversupply anyway especially during the initial stages.
Suggestion for a rebalance of ECM - Modulated ECM Effects
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General Lootit
RDS Academy Everyb0dy Knows
8
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Posted - 2015.10.20 10:00:05 -
[3988] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Dave Stark wrote:not a new thing - people already start accounts just to train a character to sell on the bazaar. characters that have no baggage, corp history, etc.
completely clean and focused characters created expressly for the purpose of being turned in to isk. pretty sure mr.epeen who was posting earlier is some one who does this, along with many others. I was thinking about boosting main char by farming free alts, just by cost of extractor. For low level char that may be a thing. First of all alts need to be hit 5m SP to be able to extracting. And I doubt that Devs will allow to extract from trial accounts. |
Vahligmarr
Tribal Core
4
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Posted - 2015.10.20 10:00:50 -
[3989] - Quote
Hi,
I'am subscribed since November 2006 continiously. Still a fan of Eve's unique Real Time Skill System. Keeps me subscribed till today, even when i can't play that much anymore... because it rewards me with SP anyway due to the Time SP Factor. This Constant was softened already when Attribute Revamping was introduced, with the possibility to optimize Skillques. More starting SP for beginners does the same btw... If you make SP purchasable now, the Constant Time SP Factor becomes even weaker.... Not only that i have a really bad feeling about the idea, but why should i stay subscribed, when i dont have time to play? I could pause my Sub and just buy some SP when checking back in.... and what do you think is the next step? SP boosting Equipment in the AUR Store? Everyone raising at least one SP alt, to sell them at a given time, just to raise the next one?
No, please don't touch the SkillSystem...otherwise this is not my game anymore....
It you need money, pimp the aur store with unique bling bling stuff, but don't kill the most fundamental game mechanic... |
Dave Stark
7621
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Posted - 2015.10.20 10:00:52 -
[3990] - Quote
General Lootit wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Dave Stark wrote:if supply and demand make SP packets cost more than production costs you can bypass the market entirely and create your own with SP farms of which the barrier to entry is pretty much just "create a new account". And setting up a SP farm requires capital investment and time. If a big alliance buys out all the SP packets for instance then price will spike until demand can catch up. It is what happens in the eve markets all the time already. Then new farmers will come because it become more profitable hence price will go down. Also need to consider that EVE have many allinces which are constantly fighting against each other.
i agree. i think that due to the laughably low barrier to entry there's nowhere for these SP packets to go price wise other than to track 1/4 plex price + extractor price.
as soon as any profit can be made everyone will fire up their alts again and push the price back down to cost price and once the profit is gone they'll ice them again. |
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