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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Scott Dracov
Isogen 5
0
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:46:03 -
[391] - Quote
This is the first post I have ever felt compelled to make. I am a member of the silent majority that plays the game and not the forum. I am a new character in eve terms and would benefit most from this and I despise everything about this idea.
if I have a vote I VOTE NO! NEVER! CEASE AND DESIST.
If you do this I will feel compelled to terminate my commitment to paying for eve via subscription and cease all involvement in this game. Why? Because in my mind this is CCP cashing out with no holes bared, nothing sacred left and with no regard to the most core game mechanic that kept legions of eve players including myself active... the one mechanic to not be undermined that eve ever had.
This is a tipping point in which it seems CCP for what ever reason feels they can now toy with the golden goose that has kept hundreds of thousands of players committed to financing this game by training their toons with total relentless devotion.
Why did so many players do this including myself up until this proposed change? because time was an ineffable element in eve that you could never get back if you did not use it and there was no way to cheat time on a single character you were training. You could always buy a toon or train alts but if you wanted to experience something real and unique in eve first hand and did not want a shortcut of buying another players toon you had to invest time into doing it through the skill training system. You could train alts but they too must adhere to the principle of time that must be invested to obtain any skill training completions.
CCP has already leaned on this pillar of eve in multitraining on the same account and encouraging character trading and these aspects are violations but they do not bring the house of cards crumbling into dust as the bedrock principle of all characters remained intact in that you could never get more skill on a single toon without paying for that skill with time through the training que.
Time is the fire in which we burn.
If you do this CCP you will have a lot of time to think about why so many players simply stopped paying you and they may not be kind enough to give you any warning post to stop your current plan before you commit to it.
They will simply just stop paying you.
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Monasucks
BLACK SQUADRON. RAZOR Alliance
149
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:46:25 -
[392] - Quote
Skinzee wrote:Captain Africa wrote:Tzu Wu wrote:Captain Africa wrote:Skinzee wrote:All the people moaning and complaining about the idea are people that already have 50-100+ million skill points...
Yes, you've spent your fair share of time training your skills to be where they are but this is NOT pay to win...
My character has 2.2million SP and am currently training core skills and want to fly a curse as its my favorite ship..
Current training time left to fly 'efficiently' - 70d 11h 21mn...
That is effectively 2.5m SP (roughly).
If I had the option to spend -ú20-30 to avoid those 70days to get into the ship I want to fly and make me want to play the game more, than I'd be happy to do it.
What issue do you see of a character being 'boosted' to 5m or even 10m skillpoints etc? I imagine it wont be cheap getting millions of skillpoints doing it this way either.
I was tempted by character bazaar and buying my own character but that character would never be 'mine'... it would never be special... never have my own name etc.
I fully agree with this option as I dont see a major issue with it.
All the vets can go cry somewhere else. Just because you dont want newbies being a 'competition' in anyway...
IM A NEWB AND I WANT TO PAY A LITTLE EXTRA TO FLY A SHIP AND ENJOY THE GAME THAT I ALREADY PAY FOR! YOU DON'T BUY YOUR WAY INTO EVE >>>YOU EARN YOUR WAY INTO EVE ....like we all did ! Don't speak for everyone man. Have you not heard of the character bazaar? Saying "we all earned it" is beyond idiotic. That's just as much p2w as this is. Your the idiot do you really think people know me by my real name ...were working with entities . You buy an entity that is a huge difference between buying skills. You buy a rap sheet and you have to live with the consequences...that's the eve i know ... How is that a huge difference? THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE OTHER THAN THE BIRTHDATE OF THE CHARACTER. So you buy a character who was a previous corp thief, pirate, scammer or w/e... now what? your screwed with a character with a bad rep which you had nothing to do with.
If you buy something used - you're risk it comes with scars and some not so nice corners.. Thats a difference.
And everybody in game will know that this character is bought, everyone in corp etc. this makes the char bazar legit. you have to stand for what you have done and life with the risks ( bad standing and so on )
Can I haz you're stuff?
[i][b]A good worker is a live worker. Free to live - and work! A bad worker is a dead worker; and vice versa. Don't be a bad worker; bad workers are slaves, and dead. Payday for good workers has been postponed indefinitely. Pa
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Tzu Wu
THORN Syndicate Circle-Of-Two
50
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:46:40 -
[393] - Quote
Tado wrote:No thank you this is a terrible idea.
I have been playing this game since day one and for me this idea of yours will kill EVE for me.
You bittervets really need to get over yourselves.You've been playing since day 1 and want to hold that "elite" status until the server finally shuts down? I say that because it seems bittervets would rather the game day then CCP make any changes that might effect their "elite" status. |
Felo Maxun
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
116
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:46:42 -
[394] - Quote
"We hope that because this feature is modeled from the Character Bazaar, a long-standing and well-established feature, we are already pointed in a good direction."
This feature is not "modeled from the Character Bazaar" not in the slightest.
There is basically only one thing in eve that cant be bought.... and you want to put it up for sale.
This is a sad day. |
Jaime Wulfe
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
13
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:46:42 -
[395] - Quote
Nope.
Eve is about learning his **** and be patient. Ruin it. go on you dumbos. |
Neville Smit
Metro Trucking and Trade Ad-Astra
47
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:47:20 -
[396] - Quote
My first reaction to the dev blog was: "Interesting - this could give novice players more flexibility in developing their characters for different specializations. That might help with retention of new players."
But then I thought further about it, and decided that all the potential downsides greatly outweigh any benefits.
The proposed mechanics will make ISK far more important than SP. Since I can buy as much ISK as I want (using PLEX), then the amount of SP on a new character would depend mostly on how much disposable cash I am willing to spend. Yes, there's diminishing returns in the model, but no matter how you look at it, this is pay2win.
The proposed mechanics diminish the value of early character development. In fact, it makes a character more or less irrelevant - it simply becomes a vessel into which one pours SP, not an asset in game that one must carefully and thoughtfully nurture and develop. I'm not a serious role-player, but I do like that Neville Smit has had to make some commitments to developing certain skills, in order to unlock new capabilities in the game. That was an enjoyable part of EVE gameplay for me - and those kind of decisions largely go away if all I have to do is buy packets and stuff batches of unallocated SP into my body. In fact, it means I can make stupid skill selection choices faster than ever before, with fewer consequences.
Others have posted examples of how the proposed mechanics could be farmed and abused, so I won't repeat them here.
So, while my initial reaction was somewhat positive, upon reflection I've decided that I'm not a fan.
-1 on this idea.
I am an unapologetic fan of EVE Online. My blog: http://nevillesmit.com/ - My Twitter: https://twitter.com/NevilleSmit
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Tzu Wu
THORN Syndicate Circle-Of-Two
50
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:47:30 -
[397] - Quote
Felo Maxun wrote:"We hope that because this feature is modeled from the Character Bazaar, a long-standing and well-established feature, we are already pointed in a good direction."
This feature is not "modeled from the Character Bazaar" not in the slightest.
There is basically only one thing in eve that cant be bought.... and you want to put it up for sale.
This is a sad day.
If you don't consider the character bazaar as buying isk or even a new identity, you're either blind or just in denial. |
Kilian Katar
Tenth Company
1
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:47:35 -
[398] - Quote
OH OH OH and lest we forget, you wouldn't multiple training queues to train up a vast number of gank alts, 1 day old characters in t2 fitted catalysts..... YEA you go CCP |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2031
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:47:50 -
[399] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Querns wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Querns wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: As someone else already said, CCP's move to make the game "more accessible" have been smashing successes so for.
Naivety is a bad thing for a business.
[...] Sure, but the burden of proof is on the person who says "X happened, therefore the fact that Y also happened shows a direct relationship." Correlation is evidence (or perhaps more accurately an analysis of evidence, but semantics). Evidence that can be used to support a conclusion of causation. Ignoring that evidence with a platitude of "correlation is not causation" is foolish. The general public lifted "correlation is not causation" from scientific literature, most notably the "debate" on climate change. Yet, in the broad scientific community, correlation is used as evidence of causation in tens of thousands of papers across every quantifiable subject imaginable. Correlation alone does not prove causation, but it can be and is used as part of a set of proofs for causation. Evidence alone is not sufficient. It has to be shown to directly affect the causation. Observing PCU count drop isn't even that great as evidence, because PCU itself is only tenuously related to subscriber count. Every argument or thesis starts off with nothing but a scrap of evidence or observation. Nascent ideas are not discarded out of hand because they haven't been completely proven yet. Especially if there is some evidence for them. My own view is that driving eve too far into the "accessible" category may result in depriving the game of unique aspects - choices with consequences. From where I stand, the drive to make sov more accessible (looking at you sov wands & ceptors) has directly led to a great many individuals and entities out right abandoning the game entirely. This isn't some PCU count bullshit. F*ck PCU. This is about long-term players and community organizations preferring (figurative) death to living with these "ease of accessibility" changes. Selling SP for isk, in any arbitrary amount, in any arbitrary package removes hard choices from the game. I like hard choices. I like playing games with hard choices. Today you can buy a character, true. But that is a character crafted by another, with it's own flaws and skills not made to tailor for each individual. And you pay a market rate for them - some combinations of SP are worth more than others depending on the meta. Creating such characters, choosing to buy characters that are imperfect in one way or another represents hard choices made by either the buyer or the seller, and this is good.If I didn't want hard choices, I'd be playing candy crush or DudeBroShooter 2015 October Edition. Except no one on the internet actually performs the research. They proclaim "X is correlated with Y, therefore X causes Y" and are done. What's worse, is that people believe them.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Duffyman
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
19
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:47:54 -
[400] - Quote
Hi,
not meaning to take sides, but what is the difference between this and the Character Bazaar, in terms of P2W?
edit: just saw PotatoOverdose's post and he makes good points. Still I think it's pretty much the same thing... |
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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
430
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:48:02 -
[401] - Quote
One reason why the Character Bazaar and the SP booster plan are critically different: Intel.
Right now, with the way that skills work, you can generally get a rough idea of what the character might be capable of based on their age and corp history. If they're 5 years old, but their corp history is dotted with NPC corps taking up half the time, and their killboards don't show any activity during those times, you can generally guess that they only have about 2.5 years'-worth of SP despite being five years old. Additionally, you can gauge how well they might be able to fight based on their corp history, as somebody who has been in and out of the game is going to probably be less-skilled than someone with less age, but more "dedication" / "consecutive play."
If you see a char that's a year old and had been sold on the Bazaar, you still see that the char has about a year's-worth of SP and what skills they have (based on the Bazaar listing).
Looking at available information, you can make a reasonable guess at what sort of skills and abilities a pilot has.
With SP packs, that goes out the window.
Before, when you saw a month-old NPC char on the battlefield, you knew that they were a month-old char and could estimate their skills based on that. Now, you'll see that month-old char, and instead of the question being "are they a newbie or a vet laying a trap?" you'll have to add "If it's a vet, how much SP have they boosted?"
The same goes for year-old chars. For five-year-old chars. Even for ten-year-old chars, because you have no way of knowing if they took SP out and got rid of it or used it for other skills.
Where before you had an imperfect way to make an imperfect guess at a character's capabilities (something that takes a bit of skill and sleuthing to do well), you're now left with absolutely nothing. No amount of game knowledge is going to give you an idea about what those pilots are capable of until you actually engage. It removes an element of planning and thought without giving anything back in its place.
Planning a trip to Thera? Check out http://eve-scout.com/ for a list of the current connections.
Once you've made your choice, join the EvE-Scout channel and request a scout to make sure your connection is clear!
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TheSmokingHertog
TALIBAN EXPRESS
337
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:48:11 -
[402] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Aaaand they are at it again.. totally disconnected...
They rather add some micro-transaction crap and delete some possibilities than deliver something that makes the game more interesting and worth playing...
Yoohoo!, do you all in here like the people adding this crap to this thread. PLEASE tell us WHY!
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Miao Sajuuk
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
7
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:48:15 -
[403] - Quote
Not too bad, an alternative way to trade character.
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Alladir
Alladarium
4
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:48:35 -
[404] - Quote
At least reddit is filled with open minded ppl who weight constructive pros and cons, makes you wonder how many alts are in this thread. |
PMolkenthin
Interstellar Manufacturing of Gravity Aided Yields
22
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:48:44 -
[405] - Quote
It is my opinion that this is ****. |
Divine Entervention
Rational Chaos Inc. Phoebe Freeport Republic
685
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:49:16 -
[406] - Quote
And it's great because no one can say it makes EvE Pay to win because according to the hive mind, skill points don't define success, player ability does.
This will just give those of us who started later the ability to play now. |
Skinzee
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
8
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:49:22 -
[407] - Quote
Skinzee wrote:I have a question for ALL people that say this is a bad idea...
--- WHAT EFFECT WOULD IT HAVE ON YOU AS A PILOT IF THIS WOULD ACTUALLY GO LIVE? ---
There is already an option to buy 0-200m SP characters... Character Bazaar - (Thats Pay2Win if you look at it that way)
Would love someone to actually give me a valid answer to this question.
As far as I can see, there is none.
Doing this does NOT effect 'vet' pilots in anyway, other than you assuming a pilot has less skillpoints than he actually does because of its birthdate and then being blown apart because he has T2 guns at 5days old.
Doing this does NOT mean that I can boost my characters SP so that I can being the richest person in EvE just because I bought SP.
Doing this does not effect other pilots ability to play the game any less or more than it does now. (other than training for a link character - Which I could go and do right now)
I WANT TO BE ABLE TO SPEND BILLIONS OF ISK ON MY OWN CHARACTER, WITH MY OWN NAME AND HISTORY OF THAT CHARACTER IS FULLY KNOWN TO ME RATHER THAN BUYING A 2ND HAND 'ALT' CHARACTER OR CORP THEIF OR W/E. |
Thalen Draganos
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
59
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:49:28 -
[408] - Quote
I'm not a fan of this idea as a whole, BUT, I have been saying for years now that I wished there was a way to get rid of skills I don't want and reallocate them to skills I do want. With that in mind, is that possible? To use an extractor to remove the skill points I don't want with a Transneural Skill Extractor and turn that in to Transneural Skill Packets that I can then turn in to free xp and reallocate? Having 170mil sp on this character alone, I would absolutely love to shuffle that around or use them on my other characters. That alone would be a dream come true. |
Jason Atavuli
Boere Kavaliers RUCA Emperor
8
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:49:37 -
[409] - Quote
No, I'm really not feeling this
CCP if you push this through anyway regardless of popular opinion, could you at least make that monument in Jita destructible please?
.
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2031
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:49:42 -
[410] - Quote
Felo Maxun wrote:"We hope that because this feature is modeled from the Character Bazaar, a long-standing and well-established feature, we are already pointed in a good direction."
This feature is not "modeled from the Character Bazaar" not in the slightest.
There is basically only one thing in eve that cant be bought.... and you want to put it up for sale.
This is a sad day. You may wish to re-examine what the character bazaar does, because it isn't what you think it is.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Dun Bar
Inner Shadow Did he say Jump
27
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:49:52 -
[411] - Quote
NO NO NO NO NO, we are not blizzard. this will put the final nail in the eve is dying coffin. Please for love of god, no |
Tzu Wu
THORN Syndicate Circle-Of-Two
50
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:49:53 -
[412] - Quote
Duffyman wrote:Hi,
not meaning to take sides, but what is the difference between this and the Character Bazaar, in terms of P2W?
Almost zero difference aside from being able to apply the SP to a new character. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2031
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:50:31 -
[413] - Quote
Duffyman wrote:Hi,
not meaning to take sides, but what is the difference between this and the Character Bazaar, in terms of P2W? There is absolutely none. Don't let anyone try and tell you differently.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Nataliya Barre
Immortal Nomads Indecent Exposure Alliance
56
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:50:35 -
[414] - Quote
Just NO |
Bazoobo Gwabo
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:50:46 -
[415] - Quote
Seems like a lot of the older veterans are against this but then again I see the same reaction in other games. Not really seeing much in the way of response from newer players who have not had the 12+ years invested in this game and are trying to play catch up.
So it is ok then to drop 30 billion isk (~ 25 PLEX ~$500) to get a character off the bazaar? I would rather have the opportunity to add points to skill up this character rather than switching to a character in which I have no history. Years ago I bought a character in another game and felt like the whole time I was in another person's body and always felt weird about playing a character I did not invest my time and effort into developing. Told myself I would never do that again.
Even as it is now I would like to participate in null sec or pvp on this character, but do not want to waste time in a no implant clone. So for now I sit in my nice high-sec close doing mainly PVE stuff. In a long training queue, +5 implants vs no implants can mean the difference in a month of training.
I welcome the idea of being able to spend a few coins to inject some skill points.
o/
"As cannons overcharged with double cracks, so they doubly redoubled strokes upon the foe." Captain, Macbeth Act 1 Scene 2
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3504
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:50:54 -
[416] - Quote
Tank Murdock Jnr wrote:Hey...wait a minute.
Does this mean I'll be able to sell Mining 2, and all the other total carebear crap I was born with? Hmmm.
Yes. You could do that. Once you buy the appropriate in game items. Either for ISK or even RL money (via Aurum).
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Kilian Katar
Tenth Company
1
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:50:57 -
[417] - Quote
The character bazaar is like manufacturing and the market, its a risk when you train a character to sell, markets change, eve changes, one minute black ops pilots could be like gold, then all of a sudden gold is worthless and copper is what you want, and thus boosters are worth lots, etc, SP is SP only risk is where you put it after you brought it. |
HaoSs Ragnarok
EVE-RO Fidelas Constans
0
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:50:58 -
[418] - Quote
Bad idea. Never ever implement this..
on the other hand .move SP from 1 skill to another. yes. BUT ON THE SAME CHARACTER ! |
Captain Africa
GRIM MARCH Circle-Of-Two
118
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:51:02 -
[419] - Quote
Skinzee wrote:Captain Africa wrote:Tzu Wu wrote:Captain Africa wrote:Skinzee wrote:All the people moaning and complaining about the idea are people that already have 50-100+ million skill points...
Yes, you've spent your fair share of time training your skills to be where they are but this is NOT pay to win...
My character has 2.2million SP and am currently training core skills and want to fly a curse as its my favorite ship..
Current training time left to fly 'efficiently' - 70d 11h 21mn...
That is effectively 2.5m SP (roughly).
If I had the option to spend -ú20-30 to avoid those 70days to get into the ship I want to fly and make me want to play the game more, than I'd be happy to do it.
What issue do you see of a character being 'boosted' to 5m or even 10m skillpoints etc? I imagine it wont be cheap getting millions of skillpoints doing it this way either.
I was tempted by character bazaar and buying my own character but that character would never be 'mine'... it would never be special... never have my own name etc.
I fully agree with this option as I dont see a major issue with it.
All the vets can go cry somewhere else. Just because you dont want newbies being a 'competition' in anyway...
IM A NEWB AND I WANT TO PAY A LITTLE EXTRA TO FLY A SHIP AND ENJOY THE GAME THAT I ALREADY PAY FOR! YOU DON'T BUY YOUR WAY INTO EVE >>>YOU EARN YOUR WAY INTO EVE ....like we all did ! Don't speak for everyone man. Have you not heard of the character bazaar? Saying "we all earned it" is beyond idiotic. That's just as much p2w as this is. Your the idiot do you really think people know me by my real name ...were working with entities . You buy an entity that is a huge difference between buying skills. You buy a rap sheet and you have to live with the consequences...that's the eve i know ... How is that a huge difference? THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE OTHER THAN THE BIRTHDATE OF THE CHARACTER. So you buy a character who was a previous corp thief, pirate, scammer or w/e... now what? your screwed with a character with a bad rep which you had nothing to do with.
Yup ..and trust me people will react to that character and not to who you are ...and that is the whole point. Look buddy ...if been where you are. now. Trust me time is a currency as much as money. One day when you look back and did the time you will appreciate what im saying. To go and buy a ton of sp and within a few days you have this god of a pilot....you just wont give a ****.. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2703
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:51:58 -
[420] - Quote
Querns wrote: Except no one on the internet actually performs the research. They proclaim "X is correlated with Y, therefore X causes Y" and are done. What's worse, is that people believe them.
That doesn't mean we have to stoop to the standards of the lowest common denominator of the internet, does it? |
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