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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
286
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Posted - 2015.11.25 21:30:52 -
[5941] - Quote
Veraca Darmazaf wrote:Levi Belvar wrote: I invest 9.99 each month to get 30 days access - The time investment.
I think your definition if 'time investment' is off, and may be confusing your point. You spend money on the game sub to get the opportunity to invest time, and the opportunity to passively gain SP. Time invested would be time spent interacting with the game on some level, if you spend zero hours on the game in a day then you've invested zero hours. In other words, the only time invested in something is the time you no longer have to invest in something else. Edit: I can't say I've invested $10,000 in a car if I get the car without giving up the $10,000. Likewise I can't say I've invested 30 days gaining SP if I still had those 30 days to spend as I wanted while I gained that SP. That by far is the biggest load of tripe i've seen on here, im still wondering WTF most of it is supposed to even mean. My definition of Time investment is fine, i think even stephen hawkings would be baffled by that load of shite you just typed.
GÇ£Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.GÇ¥
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1747
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Posted - 2015.11.25 21:44:52 -
[5942] - Quote
Veraca Darmazaf wrote:Levi Belvar wrote: I invest 9.99 each month to get 30 days access - The time investment.
I think your definition if 'time investment' is off, and may be confusing your point. You spend money on the game sub to get the opportunity to invest time, and the opportunity to passively gain SP. Time invested would be time spent interacting with the game on some level, if you spend zero hours on the game in a day then you've invested zero hours. In other words, the only time invested in something is the time you no longer have to invest in something else. What he is describing is simply monetary investment. It's a subscription for access and the privileges thereof. The issue is that since the sub buys time to potentially play the game, he and others are conflating buying time with investing time.
That's why they keep using that quote. They refuse to distinguish between paying for a sub and investing time in the game. SP is currently (mostly, there are some active aspects) just a monetary function over uninvested time . Making it something you can purchase in game on the other hand actually encourages investing time in game rather than just a sub price. |
Veraca Darmazaf
EVE University Ivy League
20
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Posted - 2015.11.25 21:54:54 -
[5943] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote: What he is describing is simply monetary investment. It's a subscription for access and the privileges thereof. The issue is that since the sub buys time to potentially play the game, he and others are conflating buying time with investing time.
That's why they keep using that quote. They refuse to distinguish between paying for a sub and investing time in the game. SP is currently (mostly, there are some active aspects) just a monetary function over uninvested time . Making it something you can purchase in game on the other hand actually encourages investing time in game rather than just a sub price. I hoped it was an honest language issue on his part, or failing that he'd take it as an opportunity to switch to a better argument. Alas. |
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
286
|
Posted - 2015.11.25 21:59:59 -
[5944] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Veraca Darmazaf wrote:Levi Belvar wrote: I invest 9.99 each month to get 30 days access - The time investment.
I think your definition if 'time investment' is off, and may be confusing your point. You spend money on the game sub to get the opportunity to invest time, and the opportunity to passively gain SP. Time invested would be time spent interacting with the game on some level, if you spend zero hours on the game in a day then you've invested zero hours. In other words, the only time invested in something is the time you no longer have to invest in something else. What he is describing is simply monetary investment. It's a subscription for access and the privileges thereof. The issue is that since the sub buys time to potentially play the game, he and others are conflating buying time with investing time. That's why they keep using that quote. They refuse to distinguish between paying for a sub and investing time in the game. SP is currently (mostly, there are some active aspects) just a monetary function over uninvested time . Making it something you can purchase in game on the other hand actually encourages investing time in game rather than just a sub price.
The game as it stands now everyone is created equal ( almost - barring slight deviations with attribs ) You don't benefit in anyway from personal skills to be able to fly anything or doing anything different to the next person. With the exception of them removing the attributes from the game, which does cause a lot of confusion. It wouldn't matter if you could play 10 hours a day only the weekends or 3 hours a week every player gains the same amount skill points so long as they have there 30 days access. That makes this the most balanced field of play in any kind of MMO, Your not driven by any need to grind to progress at any level. What is the problem with that ?
GÇ£Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.GÇ¥
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1747
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Posted - 2015.11.25 22:01:36 -
[5945] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote:Talking about the health of the game: TSP use an outside-game item and that affects the PLEX market. I'm confused here, you seem to be calling either AUR or extractors (maybe RL cash?) an "outside-game item" that affects the PLEX market. None of those factors are more or less out of game items than PLEX itself except cash, but cash is already the origin of PLEX.
So what is the out of game item that affects the PLEX market?
Iowa Banshee wrote:(1) Do you think it will be profitable to farm SP for ISK 5%-10% ROI (Plex bought) or 20-%25% ROI on a main training SP for ISK No, but why would SP for isk have a 10%-25% ROI?
Iowa Banshee wrote:(2) Do you think CCP will open the ISK faucets a little to keep PLEX inflation about the same level it is now as opposed to allowing the price of PLEX to inflate (It's 6Bill/Plex on China server) making it much harder to PLEX an account. That seems like it would be counter productive. Increasing isk faucets increases available isk, probably reducing the need for PLEX purchases from CCP from those wanting to earn isk, which means less PLEX in game, with more people having free isk to buy them at the current price point, driving it further up over time.
More isk would increase inflationary effect where near unlimited competition doesn't push prices back down. Since PLEX doesn't have that downward force prices will likely only escalate as isk flowing into the economy does.
Iowa Banshee wrote:YES to both these questions will defiantly change the way I play the game. I can't come to a yes answer for either as presented.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1747
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Posted - 2015.11.25 22:19:54 -
[5946] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:The game as it stands now everyone is created equal ( almost - barring slight deviations with attribs ) Attributes alone comprise a potential ~30%+ difference in training speed between max and min speeds. That's before implants, which can't be gained through a sub alone save the temporary accelerators.
Levi Belvar wrote:You don't benefit in anyway from personal skills to be able to fly anything or doing anything different to the next person. On skills specifically, the faster I can earn isk, the faster I can get higher level learning implants and afford new skills. Skills I already have and put in use increase my earning capacity towards that end.
This is especially true if I lose pods that I run with implants and the costs of replacement are repeated.
Levi Belvar wrote:With the exception of them removing the attributes from the game, which does cause a lot of confusion. It wouldn't matter if you could play 10 hours a day only the weekends or 3 hours a week every player gains the same amount skill points so long as they have there 30 days access. That makes this the most balanced field of play in any kind of MMO, Your not driven by any need to grind to progress at any level. What is the problem with that ? That it's balanced is an opinion that depends on the idea that actual time investment as well as any portion of skill or cooperation should be nonfactors in character progress.
Even if this came to be Eve would still have it's baseline progress, but limiting it only to that means acknowledging the inverse of this supposed fairness. That the time gate will inherently work against new players because there are benefits more strongly felt in all areas of gameplay except skill training. And since skill training exists ONLY to covey these benefits it makes little sense for it to remain "balanced (read: time locked)" for it's own sake.
It comes back to the question of "Why is it so bad that others may be able to pass your SP even if the gains you've always gotten are still there?" "Why do you think you deserve to progress as fast as everyone else regardless of how and how often you play the game?" |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
45
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Posted - 2015.11.25 22:43:30 -
[5947] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Iowa Banshee wrote:Talking about the health of the game: TSP use an outside-game item and that affects the PLEX market. I'm confused here, you seem to be calling either AUR or extractors (maybe RL cash?) an "outside-game item" that affects the PLEX market. None of those factors are more or less out of game items than PLEX itself except cash, but cash is already the origin of PLEX. So what is the out of game item that affects the PLEX market? Iowa Banshee wrote:(1) Do you think it will be profitable to farm SP for ISK 5%-10% ROI (Plex bought) or 20-%25% ROI on a main training SP for ISK No, but why would SP for isk have a 10%-25% ROI? Iowa Banshee wrote:(2) Do you think CCP will open the ISK faucets a little to keep PLEX inflation about the same level it is now as opposed to allowing the price of PLEX to inflate (It's 6Bill/Plex on China server) making it much harder to PLEX an account. That seems like it would be counter productive. Increasing isk faucets increases available isk, probably reducing the need for PLEX purchases from CCP from those wanting to earn isk, which means less PLEX in game, with more people having free isk to buy them at the current price point, driving it further up over time. More isk would increase inflationary effect where near unlimited competition doesn't push prices back down. Since PLEX doesn't have that downward force prices will likely only escalate as isk flowing into the economy does. Iowa Banshee wrote:YES to both these questions will defiantly change the way I play the game. I can't come to a yes answer for either as presented.
An example out of an out of game item that affects prices would be multiple training: It can't be built in game so it's an out of game item. Introducing it has an effect on the price of PLEX through adding the function to dual train this increases PLEX demand but there is no ISK generation from in-game construction to compensate the market therefore the faucets have to be adjusted.
(1) Are you saying that to buy multi-training + Extractors (with ISK) to use on a toon to farm SP will not be profitable? Or Are you saying the returns I used are too high & it would it be less than 5%-10% ?
(2) Not sure if the answer you gave means YES the inflation rate will be kept about the same or NO the inflation rate will jump like the China server has.
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Levi Belvar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
286
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Posted - 2015.11.25 22:58:53 -
[5948] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:It comes back to the question of "Why is it so bad that others may be able to pass your SP even if the gains you've always gotten are still there?" "Why do you think you deserve to progress as fast as everyone else regardless of how and how often you play the game?" Due to my circumstances which i'm not going to explain here by your thinking then seeing as i spend 12 to 14 hrs a day staring at this screen i should be more entitled than most because of how long i can play ?
I have said numerous times that the attribute system and all learning implants could be removed it would lift the lid on the elitist portion of skill points, offering instead a baseline skilling of 3000 per hr to all, then CCP sell for aurum boosters to augment the per hour ratio. Then it is a completely level playing field. I'd like a way that would benefit everyone in game, not certain groups.
GÇ£Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.GÇ¥
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1748
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Posted - 2015.11.25 23:05:10 -
[5949] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote:An example out of an out of game item that affects prices would be multiple training: It can't be built in game so it's an out of game item. Introducing it has an effect on the price of PLEX through adding the function to dual train this increases PLEX demand but there is no ISK generation from in-game construction to compensate the market therefore the faucets have to be adjusted. So basically the argument is that PLEX price will increase due to having another use in short? Possible, even probable and likely. But isk generation is there to set the roof price of PLEX. PLEX cannot exceed what it's in game buyers can pay and still function, increasing what they can pay increases the price the market can sustain, thus causing increases in isk generation to just chase resulting increases in PLEX price while ruining everything else in the market.
Iowa Banshee wrote:(1) Are you saying that to buy multi-training + Extractors (with ISK) to use on a toon to farm SP will not be profitable? Or Are you saying the returns I used are too high & it would it be less than 5%-10%? I'm saying we have no way of knowing, but at that rate of return it's not worthwhile to me. That said, if it is worthwhile to you, that doesn't register as an issue to me. Thing is there is the possibility of this working for a loss if several people try to get in on it, so that makes speculation sketchy.
Some people won't need it to pay back the PLEX for instance because they have accounts that aren't currently training but are PLEXing based on other activity. For them any price over the extractor is pure profit (normal ifs and buts apply of course).
Iowa Banshee wrote:(2) Not sure if the answer you gave means YES the inflation rate will be kept about the same or NO the inflation rate will jump like the China server has. If they increase isk faucets PLEX inflation here will likely worsen towards that of Serenity |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1748
|
Posted - 2015.11.25 23:14:09 -
[5950] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:It comes back to the question of "Why is it so bad that others may be able to pass your SP even if the gains you've always gotten are still there?" "Why do you think you deserve to progress as fast as everyone else regardless of how and how often you play the game?" Due to my circumstances which i'm not going to explain here by your thinking then seeing as i spend 12 to 14 hrs a day staring at this screen i should be more entitled than most because of how long i can play ? I have said numerous times that the attribute system and all learning implants could be removed it would lift the lid on the elitist portion of skill points, offering instead a baseline skilling of 3000 per hr to all, then CCP sell for aurum boosters to augment the per hour ratio. Then it is a completely level playing field. I'd like a way that would benefit everyone in game, not certain groups. No, it was level right up until you suggested AUR boosters. That threw that out of the window. RL currency dependance does not create a level playing field. It never will since our economic circumstances as a player base are likely wildly divergent.
As to what you are "entitled" to for playing longer, that's not the implication. The implication is to provide the option to use your gameplay time that way should you chose. Not that more gameplay time doesn't result in more SP with the proposal. Seeking that SP specifically through various means does. So does actively seeking something become an "entitlement?" Especially when it's not at the cost of the passive player's SP gains? And spending time on it and the activity created becomes a detriment?
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Levi Belvar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
286
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Posted - 2015.11.25 23:20:50 -
[5951] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:It comes back to the question of "Why is it so bad that others may be able to pass your SP even if the gains you've always gotten are still there?" "Why do you think you deserve to progress as fast as everyone else regardless of how and how often you play the game?" Due to my circumstances which i'm not going to explain here by your thinking then seeing as i spend 12 to 14 hrs a day staring at this screen i should be more entitled than most because of how long i can play ? I have said numerous times that the attribute system and all learning implants could be removed it would lift the lid on the elitist portion of skill points, offering instead a baseline skilling of 3000 per hr to all, then CCP sell for aurum boosters to augment the per hour ratio. Then it is a completely level playing field. I'd like a way that would benefit everyone in game, not certain groups. No, it was level right up until you suggested AUR boosters. That threw that out of the window. RL currency dependance does not create a level playing field. It never will since our economic circumstances as a player base are likely wildly divergent. As to what you are "entitled" to for playing longer, that's not the implication. The implication is to provide the option to use your gameplay time that way should you chose. Not that more gameplay time doesn't result in more SP with the proposal. Seeking that SP specifically through various means does. So does actively seeking something become an "entitlement?" Especially when it's not at the cost of the passive player's SP gains? And spending time on it and the activity created becomes a detriment? You stated that you get aur from plex did you not, so why is this any different than the same methodology for obtaining them for extractors ?
GÇ£Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.GÇ¥
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1748
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Posted - 2015.11.25 23:23:27 -
[5952] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:You stated that you get aur from plex did you not, so why is this any different than the same methodology for obtaining them for extractors ? Yup, updated accordingly.
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Levi Belvar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
286
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Posted - 2015.11.25 23:32:02 -
[5953] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:You stated that you get aur from plex did you not, so why is this any different than the same methodology for obtaining them for extractors ? Yup, updated accordingly. It would speed things up if they upped the per hour of skill points, also there is no RMT being added this way.
GÇ£Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.GÇ¥
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1748
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Posted - 2015.11.25 23:35:30 -
[5954] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:It would speed things up if they upped the per hour of skill points, also there is no RMT being added this way. I question the notion there is RMT added with this suggestion, unless you mean to suggest CCP can't track item level RMT, in which case they can't track any RMT that uses items.
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Levi Belvar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
286
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Posted - 2015.11.25 23:41:15 -
[5955] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:It would speed things up if they upped the per hour of skill points, also there is no RMT being added this way. I question the notion there is RMT added with this suggestion, unless you mean to suggest CCP can't track item level RMT, in which case they can't track any RMT that uses items. a commodity like a TSP would have the atttaction of being sold for real cash, there's plenty of places to get isk and plex's and theres always someone willing to buy it or they wouldnt exist.
Edit: This is a move to get more funding to CCP one way or another they intend to get some extra cash from the players.
GÇ£Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.GÇ¥
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1748
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Posted - 2015.11.25 23:45:08 -
[5956] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:a commodity like a TSP would have the atttaction of being sold for real cash, there's plenty of places to get isk and plex's and theres always someone willing to buy it or they wouldnt exist. A commodity like TSP concentrating RMT makes a great method to filter and catch RMTers if it actually gets them to try. Though why they would go through the effort when they could just sell isk which effectively is TSPs on the market and not create 2 trails of transfers leading to them is beyond me. |
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
286
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Posted - 2015.11.26 08:26:19 -
[5957] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:a commodity like a TSP would have the atttaction of being sold for real cash, there's plenty of places to get isk and plex's and theres always someone willing to buy it or they wouldnt exist. A commodity like TSP concentrating RMT makes a great method to filter and catch RMTers if it actually gets them to try. Though why they would go through the effort when they could just sell isk which effectively is TSPs on the market and not create 2 trails of transfers leading to them is beyond me. Levi Belvar wrote:Edit: This is a move to get more funding to CCP one way or another they intend to get some extra cash from the players. Ok, but that doesn't really address the objections to it not being the best way and further just stealing functions already in game just to resell them rather than something new. I suppose when all said and done you have to weigh up the pro's and con's, who it actually benefits the most and what is CCP hoping to achieve. I see this as it stands at present nothing more than a re-skill facility for the mid term players with a minimal loss, numerous ways from RMT to large corp abuse with no benefit to a new player.
I've no problem with giving them more skill points at the start, earning skill points going through the tut's, being able to get a 1 off lump of skill points. Removing attribs ,speeding everything up, implants to boost sp/h, even something created to give players a small percentage re-skill ability which could be on a timer. All things that speed the game up for everyone, benefit all from start to end and nothing open to misuse in anyway.
Even the TSP itself if CCP were to sell it for $-ú / aurum, then its not open to misuse - I dont like it but then the players who need it most would have access to it.
My motives are nothing to do with selfishness what so ever, i hope they get it right from the off and not open a door that can never be shut heading the wrong way.
GÇ£Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.GÇ¥
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nikar galvren
Hedion University Amarr Empire
56
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Posted - 2015.11.27 18:08:33 -
[5958] - Quote
Arguments in favor of the proposed system:
1) Newbro's can skill up quicker than the old system allowed, potentially increasing retention rates (as frustration over wait-to-finish-training situations decrease).
2) The OCD among us can clean up all those skill points that we 'wasted' on XYZ skill that we never use.
3) CCP, as a company, get an influx of revenue from the additional transactions. This allows them to work on other projects and better secure the company against single-revenue-stream failure scenarios. This is a very real and very compelling argument, as I would love to see CCP still around and still going strong in another 12 years.
Full disclosure: Many times, I've wished that I could just drop a few dollars into CCP's wallet and get a chunk of SP to finish training XYZ skill. However, I recognize that this would quickly devolve into a pay-to-win scenario, where I would rapidly fall behind those with deep, deep pockets. The only saving grace for Eve is that SP numbers do not translate into ability very well. I may have perfect Carrier skills, but if I've never undocked one, then my survival rate still isn't very good. (Could lead to some funny ALOD's too...)
Argument against the new system:
1) Eve is (supposedly) Real. When it comes to internet-spaceships, this statement reduces to the assertion that Eve is a game where your decisions have consequences. The other 'Real' aspect of Eve that gets touted often is that it is a game about relationships more than it is about skills. In that context, consequences only really matter when they affect relationships.
Awox a bunch of ships? You just pissed off a lot of people who probably won't forget about it for a long time. Corp-thief? All that, and good luck ever getting promoted in a new corp. Known (or suspected) spai? Good luck getting into a new corp.
The proposed system negates the consequence that should attend these behaviors. Don't want to be remembered as an Awoxer? Simple. Roll a new toon and pay a few PLEX to transfer over the 'time-investment' before biomassing the toon with the bad rep. Proceed to apply to new corp and Awox again, WHILE DENYING YOUR TARGET ANY ABILITY TO PERFORM DUE DILIGENCE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES, as the new toon is guaranteed to have a clean character reputation. This, imo, is the primary, and possibly only, argument against the proposed system.
-- (Please Note: I'm not against Awoxing/Ganking/Stealing/Espionage as in-game activities, I just strongly believe that you should have to deal with the consequences.)
"But wait!" You say. "How is this any different than the hypothetical Awoxer just buying a new toon off the character bazaar?" Simple. Kil2/CCP Logibro's experience, as stated in the associated Dev Blog gives the answer:
"I also found out, after the fact, that Kil2 had been involved in some kind of corp theft which meant I had to deal with negative reputation issues for years afterwards." - CCP Logibro
The ability to pay a couple of Dollars/Euros to acquire a new toon currently does not (and I believe, should not) also grant the ability to guarantee divorcement from consequences, even if the actions that incurred the consequences were perpetrated by another player.
"But I just bought the toon from the bazaar! I shouldn't have to deal with it's history too!" I believe that this is the point where I pull out the good 'ol "HTFU." You chose to purchase a character, and that character comes with a history. Buyer beware. Consequence.
In Eve, you consent to PVP by undocking. In Eve, you consent to building a reputation, and dealing with others on the basis of that reputation, by logging in. To change this is to decouple Eve from the only thing that anchors it to reality, from the only game mechanic that provides an "Eve is Real" experience.
TLDR; If CCP started selling SP for AUR, I would die a little inside, but might not stop playing (pay-to-win makes me cry, but I understand the draw of the business model) since I recognize that raw SP doesn't correlate to 'in-game ability,' only 'options available.'
If they give the players the ability to 'liquidate' a toon while avoiding the consequence of that action, then the game that I know and love has lost it's heart and soul, and can no longer claim in any way to be "Real." |
Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
35
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Posted - 2015.11.28 04:02:28 -
[5959] - Quote
nikar galvren wrote:Arguments in favor of the proposed system: -- (Please Note: I'm not against Awoxing/Ganking/Stealing/Espionage as in-game activities, I just strongly believe that you should have to deal with the consequences.) "But wait!" You say. "How is this any different than the hypothetical Awoxer just buying a new toon off the character bazaar?" Simple. Kil2/CCP Logibro's experience, as stated in the associated Dev Blog gives the answer: "I also found out, after the fact, that Kil2 had been involved in some kind of corp theft which meant I had to deal with negative reputation issues for years afterwards." - CCP Logibro
what? so the seller of a character who recycles a slot by selling the character and washes hands laughing after the "deed" can move on without consequences and buy a new character is your idea of suffering the consequences?!.... while also trashing the next owners reputation? lol wow your logic is impeccable.
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Levi Belvar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
295
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Posted - 2015.11.28 07:33:41 -
[5960] - Quote
Rat Scout wrote:nikar galvren wrote:Arguments in favor of the proposed system: -- (Please Note: I'm not against Awoxing/Ganking/Stealing/Espionage as in-game activities, I just strongly believe that you should have to deal with the consequences.) "But wait!" You say. "How is this any different than the hypothetical Awoxer just buying a new toon off the character bazaar?" Simple. Kil2/CCP Logibro's experience, as stated in the associated Dev Blog gives the answer: "I also found out, after the fact, that Kil2 had been involved in some kind of corp theft which meant I had to deal with negative reputation issues for years afterwards." - CCP Logibro what? so the seller of a character who recycles a slot by selling the character and washes hands laughing after the "deed" can move on without consequences and buy a new character is your idea of suffering the consequences?!.... while also trashing the next owners reputation? lol wow your logic is impeccable. Why don't you try reading it again so you'll see the part you quote is in the : Argument against the new system
GÇ£Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.GÇ¥
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Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
35
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Posted - 2015.11.28 10:38:28 -
[5961] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:Why don't you try reading it again so you'll see the part you quote is in the : Argument against the new system
..... yes exactly.
Just to be clear I am in favor of the new system, and every single argument against it can be refuted in 140 characters or less. Want proof? List the reasons you feel are valid against the new SP trade and I will respond after a nap.
:ps I can see how my fail quote snip suggests the opposite, meant to trim that line as well, but my response still stands, the "Con" crowd keep bringing up the "consequences" argument when in reality there is less with the current system then the new one. |
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
296
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Posted - 2015.11.28 12:38:02 -
[5962] - Quote
Rat Scout wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:Why don't you try reading it again so you'll see the part you quote is in the : Argument against the new system ..... yes exactly. Just to be clear I am in favor of the new system, and every single argument against it can be refuted in 140 characters or less. Want proof? List the reasons you feel are valid against the new SP trade and I will respond after a nap. :ps I can see how my fail quote snip suggests the opposite, meant to trim that line as well, but my response still stands, the "Con" crowd keep bringing up the "consequences" argument when in reality there is less with the current system then the new one. If there is no problem with the TSP let CCP do it directly, It is not open to abuse from anything that way and everyone will be able to have access to it 100% without having to join / gauged on price / held over in anyway.
GÇ£Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.GÇ¥
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Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
35
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Posted - 2015.11.28 18:31:47 -
[5963] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote: If there is no problem with the TSP let CCP do it directly, It is not open to abuse from anything that way and everyone will be able to have access to it 100% without having to join / gauged on price / held over in anyway.
If - anything - anyway........ words without weight.
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Levi Belvar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
297
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Posted - 2015.11.28 22:24:52 -
[5964] - Quote
Rat Scout wrote:Levi Belvar wrote: If there is no problem with the TSP let CCP do it directly, It is not open to abuse from anything that way and everyone will be able to have access to it 100% without having to join / gauged on price / held over in anyway.
If - anything - anyway........ words without weight. Yet another lame excuse for an answer.
GÇ£Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.GÇ¥
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Hargante
Hargantiyan
0
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Posted - 2015.11.29 21:23:41 -
[5965] - Quote
[left][b]stop whining there is no different from character bazaar and this, at least this will be popular then character bazaar i just hope it will be specific skill demand will be high if it is allocated skill so the price will rise but if it is specific skill some skills like mining will be sold a lot and after awhile those skills will be over supplied and become cheap if most start mining ore then ore will be cheaper no longer will every one want to mine and the over supply of mining skills will fix it self in time . |
Suede
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
40
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Posted - 2015.11.29 22:53:12 -
[5966] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:[img]http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68656/1/skilltrade1_550.jpg[/img] The Character Bazaar has been around for a while, allowing enterprising players to buy and sell characters from others. Lately, we've been exploring some new ideas around improving it, but ultimately realized that our effort was better spent investigating a similar idea: skill trading. This is a pretty big thing, so make sure you read the entire dev blog, and let us know what you think of the ideas inside. Please also read this reminder on our forum rules ~ ISD Decoy
can't believe for the passed weeks that none of the dev team at CCP have not even replyed to this dev blog what so ever, would be nice to have a message or a post regarding this dev blog as we are your paying customers.
just looks kinda of bad to the paying player base that if ccp can not be bothered to reply to its loyal paying customers, who are paying a sub each month, without a paying customers would put ccp out of business |
Amanda Orion
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
67
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 01:09:55 -
[5967] - Quote
Suede wrote: can't believe for the passed weeks that none of the dev team at CCP have not even replyed to this dev blog what so ever, would be nice to have a message or a post regarding this dev blog as we are your paying customers.
just looks kinda of bad to the paying player base that if ccp can not be bothered to reply to its loyal paying customers, who are paying a sub each month, without a paying customers would put ccp out of business
I'm not even a little surprised...
SOP |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
46
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Posted - 2015.11.30 20:03:48 -
[5968] - Quote
Rat Scout wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:Why don't you try reading it again so you'll see the part you quote is in the : Argument against the new system ..... yes exactly. Just to be clear I am in favor of the new system, and every single argument against it can be refuted in 140 characters or less. Want proof? List the reasons you feel are valid against the new SP trade and I will respond after a nap. :ps I can see how my fail quote snip suggests the opposite, meant to trim that line as well, but my response still stands, the "Con" crowd keep bringing up the "consequences" argument when in reality there is less with the current system then the new one.
Stagnation: If you could play for free & not bother training would you ?
I have 2 subscriptions with characters @ 49/24/27 Mill SP & 45/20/18 Mill SP.
Training Acct 1 main for a carrier pilot, 2nd Scanning/ Pi, 3rd industrial / market seller Training Acct 2 main for industrial command (already a booster, 2nd & 3rd scanning / Pi alts)
Since they were introduced I have always used 1 multi-train per month (bought with ISK at the market) - and - in addition about every 2 -3 months I dual training on my 2nd account.
- I don't need really a carrier pilot it's just something I want to achieve - I'm in WH space & happy where I am. - My pi Alts are good enough at their jobs - I don't need an industrial command to be in a Rorqual - If I was moving to low or null sec but for the WH an orca will do.
If it is possible to farm SP at a profit (say 10% return - market forces dictate that they need to make a profit for anyone to sell them). With TSP income and what I make in WH space - I will be able to play the game for free.
Of course I don't want to stagnate or actually give up my training goals BUT this may give me a better goal... and playing for free may make stagnation a sweet alternative to continual training.
Just one step towards the ultimate aim of any free to play financial model - getting the players to pay for progression.
Pay To WIn :
I would prefer
-- If you don't like the bazaar - sell a $40 item to package an alt for sale on the market -- Think newbies need to train faster - introduce boosters with diminishing return -- Upset with your past training choices - sell a $20 item for remapping
Don't make the effort of gaining skills worthless by selling skill points.
I don't want TSP as proposed because it will fundamentally change core gameplay features please don't make a system where I can buy as many SP as I want and just pay to win.
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Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
35
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Posted - 2015.11.30 20:21:51 -
[5969] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Stagnation: If you could play for free & not bother training would you ?
I could play for free right now and avoid training skills if I bought a character of the bazar.
Iowa Banshee wrote:
I have 2 subscriptions with characters @ 49/24/27 Mill SP & 45/20/18 Mill SP.
Training Acct 1 main for a carrier pilot, 2nd Scanning/ Pi, 3rd industrial / market seller Training Acct 2 main for industrial command (already a booster, 2nd & 3rd scanning / Pi alts)
Since they were introduced I have always used 1 multi-train per month (bought with ISK at the market) - and - in addition about every 2 -3 months I dual training on my 2nd account.
- I don't need really a carrier pilot it's just something I want to achieve - I'm in WH space & happy where I am. - My pi Alts are good enough at their jobs - I don't need an industrial command to be in a Rorqual - If I was moving to low or null sec but for the WH an orca will do.
Ok, I dual train one at least one account and pay CCP directly for aurum, what is your point?
Iowa Banshee wrote: If it is possible to farm SP at a profit (say 10% return - market forces dictate that they need to make a profit for anyone to sell them). With TSP income and what I make in WH space - I will be able to play the game for free.
Of course I don't want to stagnate or actually give up my training goals BUT this may give me a better goal... and playing for free may make stagnation a sweet alternative to continual training.
Just one step towards the ultimate aim of any free to play financial model - getting the players to pay for progression.
Skills are being farmed for profit trough the bazar, TSP is only going to make it more accessible.
Iowa Banshee wrote: Pay To WIn :
I would prefer
-- If you don't like the bazaar - sell a $40 item to package an alt for sale on the market -- Think newbies need to train faster - introduce boosters with diminishing return -- Upset with your past training choices - sell a $20 item for remapping
Don't make the effort of gaining skills worthless by selling skill points.
I don't want TSP as proposed because it will fundamentally change core gameplay features please don't make a system where I can buy as many SP as I want and just pay to win.
You cant buy as much as you want, you can only buy as much as it is available and as much as you can afford. And if skill points are worthless then why would anyone sell them?
Do you have any more ambiguous assertions? |
Suede
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
42
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Posted - 2015.11.30 21:04:08 -
[5970] - Quote
Amanda Orion wrote:Suede wrote: can't believe for the passed weeks that none of the dev team at CCP have not even replyed to this dev blog what so ever, would be nice to have a message or a post regarding this dev blog as we are your paying customers.
just looks kinda of bad to the paying player base that if ccp can not be bothered to reply to its loyal paying customers, who are paying a sub each month, without a paying customers would put ccp out of business
I'm not even a little surprised... SOP
Make me think to why CCP even posts dev blogs at all, Why post a dev blog if CCP cant not be bothered to reply to it just feel very much to me that CCP are not listening to players properly regarding any dev blog they post .
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