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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
rofflesausage
State War Academy Caldari State
213
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:52:57 -
[61] - Quote
Overly complex for what should actually be possible:
- Name changes - the 'reputation' reason is total nonsense, given you can simply buy / sell a character anyway. Simply have a 'previously known as' tab in the show info for that character.
- Character SP reallocation - Made a mistake? Want a new direction? Pay to do so. Same SP amount. Limited on the number of times per year.
Trading SP across characters I'm not a fan of, certainly not with the diminishing returns aspect. I'd much rather the focus be on letting new players gain / start with more SP.
As for the actual character trading - give people the ability to turn a character into an in game item. It should be tradable, be subject to the normal scam rules, and destroyable like any item in the game.
Are these 'Transneural Skill Packets' normal items that can be destroyed in game? Like PLEX? |
Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate Spaceship Bebop
428
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:53:00 -
[62] - Quote
It's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how much it will be used. The diminishing returns are required to prevent abuse, but that really only makes the service viable for very low SP characters. Any idea on the AUR cost of the neutral abstraction thing? That will really drive their use or non-use.
Also, any plans to move the character bazaar itself into the client?
.
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1989
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:53:23 -
[63] - Quote
Cynthia Aishai wrote:worst idea ever
even worse than jump fatigue and the fleet warp change You're like a critical mass of uninformed opinions, aren't you?
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Hendrink Collie
Blood Oath Foundation Adaptation.
71
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:55:23 -
[64] - Quote
This looks like a dead on arrival idea.
The melting of characters for skill points that can be sold seems like a fairly interesting idea, but the pay to win implications of it are horrible and should die in a fire. Also, opens up a variety of tree poisoning gameplay, and we have that enough already. |
Aiwha
Infinite Point DARKNESS.
869
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:55:29 -
[65] - Quote
Do not do this.
I'm not normally doom and gloom, but this is how you kill your game.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
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Tibo Paralian
Dirt 'n' Glitter Local Is Primary
57
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:55:33 -
[66] - Quote
I approve. |
Esnaelc Sin'led
AdAstra. Beach Club
29
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:55:43 -
[67] - Quote
I think that's a really great idea.
Not only it deal the issue about really young player that wants to make something effective in the game, not necesserally by flying Mauluses or Curcifers among 50 other clones, but you can also trade SP, respec, and make SP presents to your friends.
I think that's an awsome idea, that needs to be deeperly thought. |
Ed Bever
Evolution Northern Coalition.
1
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:55:54 -
[68] - Quote
Don't go down this route, please, it makes it look as if you are trying to squeeze the last bit of money out of a dying concept. I would MUCH prefer it if you, instead, tried to improve on the concept of the game. |
grevicious
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
7
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:56:29 -
[69] - Quote
is this the same way WoW went PAY TO WIN. game dead |
Daria3war
Sumbandila
0
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:57:05 -
[70] - Quote
Love this idea . CCP thinking about the future of the game. L33T bitter vet get rekt. We need fresh players and new ideas. The old way of doing things is killing the game. +1 Let the tears flow |
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Langbaobao
Tr0pa de elite. Pandemic Legion
67
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:57:07 -
[71] - Quote
To explain in more detail the reasons why this is a bad idea, here's a few of the ways you can abuse this:
- If you've got enough isk/aurum (which you can buy for real money or just have a crapload of from before) you don't really care about diminishing returns, you can just throw isk at the problem and it will go away. It essentially makes the game P2W.
- Today if you had your account hacked you will probably have all your stuff and isk sold off but at least you can get your char back after the hack is discovered. Isk and stuff can be regrinded. Now the first thing that's gonna happen is that whoever hacks your account will go straight to drain your char of SPs and sell that as well. Once the whole anti hack routine is done you'll get your char back in tatters. CCP might be able to restore it to the previous state from a backup or something but somehow I have the feeling that it will require someone in CCP customer care fidling manually with it, increasing the workload and overhead on GMs.
- Essentially up until 50 mil SP the diminishing returns are minimal, which means that with enough money or isk you can just train perfect narrow focused chars extremely easy and quickly. You just need a few 'harvest' chars, you drain them every now and then and inject everything in the char that you want to skill up. |
Moraguth
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
135
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:57:16 -
[72] - Quote
Bitter vet reporting in.
TL;DR: I'm not quitting and you can't have my stuff, but you're taking more and more uniqueness away from the game that I've loved since the very first trailer showing actual game footage that got me to apply for the beta and get in.
The whine fest:
Right now I have just shy of 229M SP. That is a simple number that says quite a few things. Assuming I've had this character the whole time (and I have), you know roughly how long I've played the game, what I've seen, what I've been through, etc. This can be verified with the API. I earned every single one of those SP. I'm also proud to say I've missed out on less than 48 hours of training my entire time playing the game.
That simple barometer will be useless now. I've met people in game who have trillions of isk. Literal trillions. And these people are relatively young by comparison. They've played the market beautifully, or are slaves to incursions 23/7. Either way, they spend more money in a month on toys than I'll ever make in my entire eve career, but I've got those SP. That is significant.
All of the above sounds like (because it is) whining. I get that. Here's another point of view:
I've told people that eve is about choices, community, and consequences. The game is so realistic because the only thing you can't buy or build in the game is time. Now that is about to change. Time in game will have no meaning. The consequences for flying (and losing) T3 cruisers will only hit your wallet. Time and SP are so interconnected right now, but they won't be anymore.
I won't go so far as to say that this will make EVE into a pay to win game, but I gotta tell ya CCP, you keep making more and more tiny steps in that direction, and I do not approve.
I don't complain about people paying money for PLEX and then having tons of money in game because of two things: 1) a fool and his money are soon parted; and 2) buy all the blingy stuff you want, if you don't know how to fly it, you're gonna lose it.
That second point is going to get more and more blurry by allowing SP for isk.
I got a Feature Added!
Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn". It is "uh-bad-in"
dictionary.com/abaddon
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1990
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:57:33 -
[73] - Quote
grevicious wrote:is this the same way WoW went PAY TO WIN. game dead I'd choose a different example if I were you. WoW is certainly less trafficked than it was in its heyday, but it is FAR from dead.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5632
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:57:35 -
[74] - Quote
I don't like this. Could be worse, but I don't like it.
A lowish hard cap would make it not as bad. But it still leads to "I just subscribed, but unless I spend more real money, I'll always be behind"
Woo! CSM X!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Izmaragd Dawnstar
EVE University Ivy League
4
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:57:36 -
[75] - Quote
Querns wrote: They are pretty much forced to do this, honestly.
Otherwise, everyone in eve would generate bastard farms whose only purpose is funneling SP to their main character.
Oh, but people will do that. If your character has less than 80M skill points, 5:2 SP ratio nothing to sneeze at. Assuming you get an account running +4s on an ideal remap, it takes just under 8 days to generate the required 500000 SP. If you have 8 accounts running, your character essentially can get 200000 more SP every day, compared to only 62640 your get with +4s and an ideal remap. More than 3 times the amount.
If this is not pay-to-win, I don't know what is. |
Ripard Teg
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
1094
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:57:42 -
[76] - Quote
More feedback: corp thief character with a bad reputation? No problem!
Just extract all of his SP, immediately feed all of his SP right back into an all new corp thief character specced perfectly to a new target corp's doctrines, profit!
As soon as is practicable, conduct your theft, use that corp's ISK to buy a bunch of extractors, suck out the new character's SP, create a new corp thief character, repeat until you're bored stealing from every corp in EVE.
You can't even trust the "Well, we just won't recruit people who have 40 million SP on day one" idea because the character bazaar will become full of "Here, buy my eight-year-old 500k SP alt and use it for corp thievery!" characters.
Net result: the level of trust that corps are going to have in new recruits is actually going to go down, if you can believe that. Consequences? What are those?
This is a horrible idea. Please do not do this.
aka Jester, who apparently was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer to good effect.
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Lauren Istlare
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
0
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:57:47 -
[77] - Quote
I don't think the idea is bad. Nearly everyone has skills they wish they could untrain, and many would pay a couple of plex to get those SP back.
The bad part is being able to trade that SP on the market. The skillpoint extractor imo, should apply the SP into 'unallocated' skillpoints on the character that used the extractor.
In that way, the service follows the thought process of the dev blog. You allow, at some cost, a person to undo training mistakes they made early on in their Eve career.
Allowing players with the isk to do so, to consume vast amount of skillpoints for isk, is.. I don't even understand why that idea came into being. |
The Slayer
Hole Violence Whole Squid
280
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:57:56 -
[78] - Quote
I prefer the previous idea Soundwave was batting around : you can buy skill time you missed through plex. But that was a few years ago now. |
Hendrink Collie
Blood Oath Foundation Adaptation.
71
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:58:08 -
[79] - Quote
Querns wrote:Cynthia Aishai wrote:worst idea ever
even worse than jump fatigue and the fleet warp change You're like a critical mass of uninformed opinions, aren't you?
Jump Fatigue along with sov changes allow little nerd groups like mine have sov now, I love it.
The now temporarily scraped fleet warp changes were interesting, and honestly could have worked with some tweaks (allow fleet warps to new alliance bms for example)
This change... has potential, but the underbelly needs major work to keep the trolls from weaponizing it. |
Marsha Mallow
2618
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:58:10 -
[80] - Quote
Do-ho this is going to be good. However this one goes, fair play for picking up on this and having the nerve to put something up. Someone put Rise in the CCP bombshelter with some pizza.
Supported in principle.
I'll write something longer in response later, as I'd recommend everyone does. Yelling 'WTF NO for ~obvious reasons~!!!1!' is not an argument. Let's see your reasons for objection. This needs to be clearly argued from a personal perspective, how people think it will affect the existing playerbase, and the game going forward.
I'm sure this will explode into a delightful campaign of hysteria off eve-o, but don't worry. The first page of this thread confirmed exactly who to watch, as usual.
One early consideration might be the effects on the existing character market and participants. There are a lot of people with a vested interest here (myself included) who may react strongly to protect their interests. This is a multi-trillion ISK market and cashing out is a lengthy affair. There might need to be a more detailed roadmap to change from the current system with a built in transition period. That would actually alleviate some of the cash pumping accusations. If you can get past the screeching phase, that is.
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: TO THE PITCHFORKMOBILE!
Benny Ohu wrote: fire up the argument calibrators set phasers to outraged overheat keyboards reinforce the thread
Jenn aSide wrote: does anyone have any assless chaps I could borrow?
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Esnaelc Sin'led
AdAstra. Beach Club
29
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:58:14 -
[81] - Quote
grevicious wrote:is this the same way WoW went PAY TO WIN. game dead
If you think about it very deeper, it's already the case with the Character Bazaar. You don't have SkillPoints ? But you have real life money ? Buy a 100 PLEX bundle and you can get any character, with any amount of SkillPoints your money permits it. |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research Create Alliance
712
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:58:28 -
[82] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote:OK, I've calmed down slightly. Let's give you guys some specific feedback so that you understand what a ******* terrible idea this is.
I have an alt I bought on the bazaar years ago. He has 82 million SP. Much of it is focused on mining and reprocessing, skills I haven't used in years. As long as I'm a whale...
Step 1: Pump a ton of Aurum into CCP to buy 84 Transneural Skill Extractors. Step 2: Use them to create 84 Transneural Skill Packets for a total of 42 million SP. Step 3: Consume 25 of them myself to bring myself to 50 million SP, dumping my useless SP and focusing this alt on incursion-running. Step 4: Sell 59 Transneural Skill Packets on the market, making it more or less unnecessary for me to actually run incursions for a while since 59 of these are going to be worth a ton of ISK.
And that doesn't even get into the matter of using those 84 Packets to more or less instantly jump a new character from 0 to 40 million SP. Character ages and birth dates will become completely meaningless.
Again, I can do these things as long as I'm a whale and pump a ton of money into CCP for the 84 Transneural Skill Extractors.
Am I missing anything here? Who in God's name thought this was a good idea? Can we sell them to Riot?
But it'll net CCP around $3000, what's not to like?
WTS ME 10 TE 20 BPOs & BPO Packs
WTS Collectible Large Rigged Small/Medium Ships
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Julius Flavus
Flavii Industries Blackguard Mercenaries
19
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:58:35 -
[83] - Quote
Pay to win anyone?
Buying a character is one thing. Buying actual skill points and applying them to your character is another.
Stop the flow of development resources on this now. |
Kazikings
Cassandras Corps Goonswarm Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:58:47 -
[84] - Quote
Please dont make this EVER happen!
My personal arguments and reasons against this are
This removes or softens up one unique aspect of EVE: Your decissions regarding skilling have consequences forever
One more uniqueness and difference compared to most other MMOs is removed
You are going to soften EVE even more up, taking more and more from its dark and harsh flair and appearance
Implementing this means a softcore version of a skillpoint respecc designed as RMT with obvious implications
This change will prevent some people from carefully planning their skills and make characters more even and straightforward
Long term planning and finally getting a long skill to V is a memorable and fond moment and should not be buyabe for AUR
Oh god WHY? Simply: DONT do this! |
virm pasuul
FRISKY BUSINESS. No Handlebars.
319
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:59:00 -
[85] - Quote
As someone who's reaction to this was negative, can anyone clearly express logically not emotionally why this is a bad idea please?
Anything that can currently be bought for ISK can be bought by extension for RL cash via PLEX. e.g. in a previous post, almost any ship can be bought for ISK, if you have enough ISK, so aren't ship already for sale for real life money? As long as CCP doesn't make new special edition ships out of thin air and sell them for RL cash, what's the difference?
This would put skill points in the same bucket, and most importantly they would be player created skill points on the player to player market, not CCP out of thin air skill points. |
Joseph Dewald
The Desolate Order Brave Collective
0
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:59:19 -
[86] - Quote
So what I'm hearing is that training is now almost worthless and instead I should be grinding for isk? Not a fan of this idea. If you really want to implement some sort of respec idea, make it so that you can't sell the sp and can only apply them to your own character. |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2022
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:59:21 -
[87] - Quote
Querns wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Querns wrote:They are pretty much forced to do this, honestly.
Otherwise, everyone in eve would generate bastard farms whose only purpose is funneling SP to their main character. They are not forced to to this. CCP instead should be coerced to develop proper, engaging and awesome game content that makes people want to stick around (see a couple of my suggestions for example *openly brags about it*). This is not that content, this is nothing but yet another money grab that requires no real effort or development cost from CCP to actually improve the game. Developer time is not fungible, and CCP is able to work on multiple things at once to no ill effect. This argument comes up time and time again any time something even remotely unpalatable arrives and I'm tired of hearing it. Then plug your ears and block my posts. I do not see CCP being capable of working on multiple things at once without compromising all they work on with lots of detrimental effects. They were not capable of developing Dust besides of EVE, they were not capable of developing Sov properly while working on what? Gunjack? And went on vacation directly after the release. They left the industry part unfinished because they needed to work on sov. The list goes on and on and on.
But yes, CCP's dev time is not fungible and they themselves time and again stress that things are expensive in terms of dev time. Yet, CCP wastes their dev time on SKINs, wastes their dev time on this garbage, wasts it on what not mobile while the main game they have needs so many fixes, they'd be busy for another decade just to fix the bugs and broken things before introducing new content. And they waste their not fungible dev time on things that do not improve the game itself, but only introduce more ways to grab money. You may not want to hear that anymore, but if you are fed up of it, then do something against it.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Squids
356
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:59:33 -
[88] - Quote
Cynthia Aishai wrote:worst idea ever
even worse than jump fatigue and the fleet warp change Jump fatigue was an amazing change so you picked a bad analogy. |
lmmortalist
lmmortality Associates
87
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:59:43 -
[89] - Quote
A very bad idea. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1990
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:59:47 -
[90] - Quote
Izmaragd Dawnstar wrote:Querns wrote: They are pretty much forced to do this, honestly.
Otherwise, everyone in eve would generate bastard farms whose only purpose is funneling SP to their main character.
Oh, but people will do that. If your character has less than 80M skill points, 5:2 SP ratio nothing to sneeze at. Assuming you get an account running +4s on an ideal remap, it takes just under 8 days to generate the required 500000 SP. If you have 8 accounts running, your character essentially can get 200000 more SP every day, compared to only 62640 your get with +4s and an ideal remap. More than 3 times the amount. If this is not pay-to-win, I don't know what is. Why would you do this when you can just buy the skill packets hot off the market?
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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