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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Trinity Windu
Dead Man Ops Goonswarm Federation
12
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Posted - 2015.10.15 15:59:59 -
[91] - Quote
Bad news bears |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
853
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:00:12 -
[92] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:[img]http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68656/1/skilltrade1_550.jpg[/img] The Character Bazaar has been around for a while, allowing enterprising players to buy and sell characters from others. Lately, we've been exploring some new ideas around improving it, but ultimately realized that our effort was better spent investigating a similar idea: skill trading. This is a pretty big thing, so make sure you read the entire dev blog, and let us know what you think of the ideas inside.
Make sure the unallocated skillpoints are taken into account as the overall number of skill points, to avoid exploit where have low SP to begin with, and then pump your head full of unallocated skillpoints without deminishing return.
I look forward to extracting my old mining skills.
Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759
Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
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Scorpio DK
FireStar Inc Evictus.
4
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:00:47 -
[93] - Quote
ok my initial reaction was terrible idea
if you are going to bring out something like this then i recommend changing it a bit
restrict it to only the character using the item removed any ability to sell skill points on the market
example would be i have some skills i don't want i can use one of these to remove the skill and points and make them un-allocated but only to that character with no way to trade it so i can trade 500k of my current skill points for 50k un-allocated skill points but never trade it to another character.
i would also build in a hard cap per month of skill points you can swap over
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Syphon Cursion
Nightmare Inc 01
0
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:01:08 -
[94] - Quote
Stupid idea just shoot ccps wallet in the face ull lose all your people asap |
Kazikings
Cassandras Corps Goonswarm Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:01:14 -
[95] - Quote
Kazikings wrote:Please dont make this EVER happen! My personal arguments and reasons against this are This removes or softens up one unique aspect of EVE: Your decissions regarding skilling have consequences forever One more uniqueness and difference compared to most other MMOs is removed You are going to soften EVE even more up, taking more and more from its dark and harsh flair and appearance Implementing this means a softcore version of a skillpoint respecc designed as RMT with obvious implications This change will prevent some people from carefully planning their skills and make characters more even and straightforward Long term planning and finally getting a long skill to V is a memorable and fond moment and should not be buyabe for AUR, neither ISK Oh god WHY? Simply: DONT do this!
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Abernie
Thoroughly Incompetent
169
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:01:51 -
[96] - Quote
When I saw the devblog, I chuckeld and was 110% sure I was linked to somekind of a troll site that just looked like the real deal.
Then the reality set it and I just sat here in utter confusion with my mouth gaping for a few minutes...
How can you possibly think this is a good idea? I was under the impression this team wasn't completely disconnected from reality and had some kind of an idea on what kind of ideas might be usable.
This kind of looks like a desperate cash grab. "Figure out something that makes people consume more PLEX and make it fast". This makes me think the TQ server upgrades are actually a huge marketing gamble, tossing a coin in the hopes that people think EVE is doing OK financially and start playing again.
I WANTED TO BELIEVE! Now I'm lost again...
I would love to see every CSM member reply to this thread with their opinion publically. Then I would like to see CCP's explanation as to why CSM members opposing this idea (I'm guessing the vast majority) have been ignored.
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Robnik Charante
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
4
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:01:56 -
[97] - Quote
This is horrifically bad. It won't kill EVE outright, but it'll maim it badly. I generally don't drama post about game changes (in fact I am usually willing to give them a shot), but this is just awful.
All of the "problems" mentioned with regard to the Character Bazaar are, in my opinion, actually interesting and positive gameplay elements. A character's name, appearance, history, sec status, faction standings, skill point allocation, remap status, implant set, jump clones, etc. all provide interesting gameplay and market choices. Making a good decision to purchase or sell a toon requires research and talking to other players - this is what EVE should be all about. It's completely open-ended, and very much in the spirit of the sandbox.
Now you're deprecating all of that with some really artificial skillpoint reallocation system that favors super-rich players despite the drawbacks you've put in place. To paraphrase your opening, you state that swapping mains in the current system is awkward. Well, guess what! You shouldn't be supporting that choice in the first place! Starting with a fresh toon and sticking with it through its normal progression is a critical EVE experience. Even if you purchase alts to supplement your main, I don't think there needs to be a mechanism to fast-track skill training on your main.
I have been playing this game very actively for two and a half years. I have never once felt limited by my SP in any regard. There's plenty to do and learn at each step along the way. If you do feel limited and are also wealthy, the character bazaar, MCT, and alt accounts are perfectly fine means to quickly acquire additional toons. By introducing "ISK-for-SP", you're inviting the sort of unfun "XP grinding" that most of us loathe from other MMOs. Please, don't bring this cancer to EVE. |
Izmaragd Dawnstar
EVE University Ivy League
4
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:02:24 -
[98] - Quote
Querns wrote:Why would you do this when you can just buy the skill packets hot off the market?
Oh, they can do that too, depending on what will be more economical. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Northern Coalition.
1829
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:02:32 -
[99] - Quote
two very dangerous things:
1. this allows experienced people who have done something "terrible" a fresh start WITH SP and WITHOUT having to use the bazarr
2. this excludes anyone that uses this feature from high level gameplay. applications from people who no longer hold their first character are already automatically denied from pretty much any corporation that's worth applying to. just because it allows the "bad" guys a fresh start |
Klarion Sythis
Lazerhawks
359
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:02:57 -
[100] - Quote
Everything in the game is already for sale if you want it to be via PLEX. You can buy characters, ships, whatever you want with RL money already. For those taking a principled stance of some kind, fine, but if people wanted it to be, the game can already be pay to win. No brakes on the bandwagon though. |
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Meltur
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
2
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:03:45 -
[101] - Quote
oh dear god. pls dont |
Cowboy Arnerette
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:04:16 -
[102] - Quote
Absolutely NO. In your effort to attract new players this will actually lose new players. Scenario: I'm a newbie and I buy a few million SP's, jump in to my first T2 or T3, have no idea how to fly it, undock and lose it within 10 minutes. My reaction would be to quit because I think that SP's are the only thing you need to win in this game and it's so not the case. Time spent on skilling is time spent on learning EVE. Nothing more, nothing less but this is a terrible idea, and I am by no means a vet. I'm barely 2 years old.
EDIT: BTW I've never once posted a response to any devblog in the past, not SOV changes, not industry changes, not jump fatigue changes, but this one I felt I can't stay silent on. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1994
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:04:32 -
[103] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Querns wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Querns wrote:They are pretty much forced to do this, honestly.
Otherwise, everyone in eve would generate bastard farms whose only purpose is funneling SP to their main character. They are not forced to to this. CCP instead should be coerced to develop proper, engaging and awesome game content that makes people want to stick around (see a couple of my suggestions for example *openly brags about it*). This is not that content, this is nothing but yet another money grab that requires no real effort or development cost from CCP to actually improve the game. Developer time is not fungible, and CCP is able to work on multiple things at once to no ill effect. This argument comes up time and time again any time something even remotely unpalatable arrives and I'm tired of hearing it. Then plug your ears and block my posts. I do not see CCP being capable of working on multiple things at once without compromising all they work on with lots of detrimental effects. They were not capable of developing Dust besides of EVE, they were not capable of developing Sov properly while working on what? Gunjack? And went on vacation directly after the release. They left the industry part unfinished because they needed to work on sov. The list goes on and on and on. But yes, CCP's dev time is not fungible and they themselves time and again stress that things are expensive in terms of dev time. Yet, CCP wastes their dev time on SKINs, wastes their dev time on this garbage, wasts it on what not mobile while the main game they have needs so many fixes, they'd be busy for another decade just to fix the bugs and broken things before introducing new content. And they waste their infugible dev time on things that do not improve the game itself, but only introduce more ways to grab money. You may not want to hear that anymore, but if you are fed up of it, then do something against it. Hey, it was a (perhaps na+»ve) hope that it would convince someone to stop framing their argument around a patently untrue concept.
All you do when you scream "WHY DIDN'T YOU WORK ON XYZ INSTEAD????" is prove your own short-sightedness. It dilutes your entire argument and makes you look like a fool, for an easily-preventable reason.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Tobias Frank
16
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:04:37 -
[104] - Quote
CCP seriously? Worst change ever. |
Reddas Vaan
Peoples Liberation Army Fidelas Constans
3
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:04:45 -
[105] - Quote
No, CCP, NO.
How in the name of god did u come up with this strange idea that WILL RUIN THE WHOLE GAME? Explain to me! |
Matterall
Aliastra Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:04:45 -
[106] - Quote
I know some people that would pay big bucks to remove some corps from their history. Think about it! |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1994
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:05:49 -
[107] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:two very dangerous things:
1. this allows experienced people who have done something "terrible" a fresh start WITH SP and WITHOUT having to use the bazarr
Why is this a bad thing?
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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John Selth
Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion
27
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:08:09 -
[108] - Quote
This is probably the most exploitable SP system eve thought of (maybe just under the PLEX for SP refund idea tossed around once). All you are doing is allowing us older players who can pool so much more isk, to essentially cut our training time to nothing while boosting our useful alt capacity. That and destroying the economy behind the character bazaar and the need to buy useful characters to meet the demands you are currently facing. |
Faenir Antollare
The Idiot Kings Get Off My Lawn
445
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:08:33 -
[109] - Quote
Dear Team Size Matters,
Our beloved EvE matters too, so please NO!!!
RiP BooBoo
26/7/1971 - 23/7/2014
My Lady My Love My Life My Wife
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
14975
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:08:41 -
[110] - Quote
Please just don't.
It's just a way to pay your way ahead, if you're looking to make newer people be able to do more, why not make it so that newer pilots train quicker in order to get those things they hope for then it slows down after 15-20m or similar.
If there's one thing I appreciate in regards to training, it is that I could actually take time and learn while training for something, plus I had the goal of going somewhere. Buying your way into FOTM is just stupid and only encourage people with money to get ahead and then lose interest.
I'm sure selling SP is great short term, but I seriously doubt it will make people stick around for longer. Farming SP is the new thing...
I can only see this as another step to use money to correct mistakes, so name change, race change and all that is just around the corner.
With all the guides and templates on how to train buying SP isn't adding anything good, nor the reason as you already have the best support you can get. I have no regrets for accidentally training the wrong things and just made me enjoy the game even more.
/c
GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà
Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'
Twitter @Chribba
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Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen Grumpy Space Bastards
242
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:09:01 -
[111] - Quote
Matterall wrote:I know some people that would pay big bucks to remove some corps from their history. Think about it!
It also has the neat property of making us unable to gauge a character's max SP by looking at the character age.
Today you can just figure on 2M per month of character age, 25M points/year or so.
The concept of just buying 50M points for about 25 plex is interesting though, I haven't decided if it's good or bad either way.
Another interesting thing is that if you're below ~50M SP, it's cheaper to buy these skill packets than it is to respec. Spend all the packets on your off-spec skill training like drones, armor, shields, leadership, etc. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1068
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:09:18 -
[112] - Quote
GOD NO!!! |
Golemag
Deep Space Explorers Inc. GaNg BaNg TeAm
6
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:09:47 -
[113] - Quote
Julius Flavus wrote:Pay to win anyone?
Buying a character is one thing. Buying actual skill points and applying them to your character is another.
Stop the flow of development resources on this now.
And pat the one who came up with it on the head from me pls. |
MonkeyBusiness Thiesant
randomly named no tax corp v2
52
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:09:48 -
[114] - Quote
Initial reaction negative for me, but I can see the logic in that isk>SP already exists on the bazaar. The worry is more with the innate structure of the game, that imperceptible element that gives us some identity and affinity with our characters. This change is ripping at that fabric, and I'm not sure the (pretty obscure) benefits are worth that risk.
With regard to the boundaries: just below 50m gets 80% payback, just above gets 40%. That's far too binary, and a massive leap. It should probably be a continuum of some sort, or at least more bins to it.
I also have concern about the effect on plex prices. |
Lord Battlestar
Faulcon de Lazy
216
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:10:19 -
[115] - Quote
I think this is a terrible idea, if anything it doesn't really do anything but encourage people to buy sp without knowing how to actually use it. Then these people buy sp into big ships lose them and then quit anyhow.
I once podded myself by blowing a huge fart.
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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
426
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:10:28 -
[116] - Quote
Absolutely not.
I have skills that I rather wished I wouldn't have trained, yes. We all do. But at the time we trained them, they were worth it enough to us to take the time to train. It was a decision we made, it's a decision we live with. Being able to get back SP negates that decision-making process.
Here's a quick scenario: My industry alts, already fully trained, are no longer training. I start training them again. They never leave their station, so a pair of +5's along with Min / Max'ed attributes on a large skill or three means I can pump out 2700 SP per hour in perfect safety. In 8 days, I've already pumped out over 500k SP (518,400). Drain the SP, sell for a profit, repeat.
There's no risk involved. I'm not losing any SP because the characters aren't training any more. They have the necessary skills at the necessary levels and never undock. There's zero risk and I'm not making a single sacrifice.
Pump'n'dump cyno alts.
Pump'n'dump PI alts.
Pump'n'dump Industry alts.
Pump'n'dump Alts, period.
If you want to give people the ability to customize their characters, add another option to the character sales: For an additional PLEX, you can rename your character, but the original name remains as an alias and remains unavailable to be reused. We already have the ability to resculp, and if it's really such a problem that someone's purchased char is Gallente instead of Caldari or Minmatar instead of Amarr, offer the ability to do a complete character redesign (while keeping the SP) for an additional PLEX, too boot.
I am absolutely against the purchase of SP outside of full-character purchases. We make decisions when we train skills. We make decisions when we purchase characters. If somebody doesn't do the necessary research on the character they're purchasing to find out that they have a bad history, that is on the purchaser.
Every time somebody buys a character, they've made the decision that the skills on that character are more valuable to them than the ISK. If the name, race, bloodline, history, etc., are so badly to somebody's disliking, they won't purchase the character. If they do, they consider that character's positives to be greater than their negatives.
Planning a trip to Thera? Check out http://eve-scout.com/ for a list of the current connections.
Once you've made your choice, join the EvE-Scout channel and request a scout to make sure your connection is clear!
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Anthar Thebess
1327
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:10:59 -
[117] - Quote
Alliance skill point reimbursement for lost T3 skills incoming. Character farms ( maybe CCP want this ) - aka why not put 2x +5 and train at maximum skill point/h ratio without leaving the station ever and then trading this or transferring to other character.
NO!
Why you don't listen to us ? People asked , if you buy character off baazar, allow to change name and look for additional plexes.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2022
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:10:59 -
[118] - Quote
Querns wrote:Hey, it was a (perhaps na+»ve) hope that it would convince someone to stop framing their argument around a patently untrue concept.
All you do when you scream "WHY DIDN'T YOU WORK ON XYZ INSTEAD????" is prove your own short-sightedness. It dilutes your entire argument and makes you look like a fool, for an easily-preventable reason. I do not scream, that is the CFC's territory of getting their point across. And listing years of failed attempts at working on several things at once can hardly be called short-sighted. But I get your point. I am not the customer CCP needs anymore, I argue too much, inquire too much, question things too much, I am not satisfied easily enough. CCP needs customers who meek and mild about everything. In fact, this is what the entire economy needs these days because if you just scratch a little bit on the surface, you would get a heart attack about what you are actually subjected to.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen Grumpy Space Bastards
242
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:11:05 -
[119] - Quote
I'm also excited to see the kill mails that drop a stack of these things. |
McBorsk
Multispace Technologies Inc Yulai Federation
59
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:11:05 -
[120] - Quote
I don't like any of this. What I do want is a post in every sale thread declaring who is the seller and who is the buyer and when the transaction took place. Sometimes those details can be unclear, especially when you go back a few years and look. Private sales especially can lack almost all details beyond the name of the character that is being sold. You don't even know if the char sold or not.
Make my job a little bit easier, please.
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