Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 [50] 60 70 80 90 100 200 .. 220 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Peter Powers
Terrorists of Dimensions Free 2 Play
256
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 08:58:05 -
[1471] - Quote
Wribbley wrote:Old players are invariably super rich with nothing much to spend isk on. I doubt any would care about the minimal return on investment. It's still a terribad idea though. I consider myself an old player. I have ~200m isk atm.
3rdPartyEve.net - your catalogue for 3rd party applications
|
Theo Sotken
Mother Knows Best Corporation
39
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 08:59:56 -
[1472] - Quote
What this boils down to is CCP is selling for cash instant unlimited skill point boosts to players.
I'm already setting up characters to farm skill points not because I think it will make good isk but to increase my income to compensate for the inevitable increase cost to plex accounts. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4121
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:02:21 -
[1473] - Quote
Big rEy wrote:wow, so much crying. p2w you say. Well, let's do a croud funding yo, make one of you crybabyes have the best thing this game can offer and max skills. What will that do to you? NOTHING. You will still get gilled by blob no mather what you are in. I have 150 bil, and 50 mil sp, that does not make me better at solo pvp. I don't even have solo kills, cause i don't go solo, so you can have all the isk, it's for nothing if you don't have the experience. it's not like all of you out there are like guados and predator666. oh wow, we may end up with characters maxed out. WOW, that science and mining and other stuff will be so hard to counter in a 1v1 pvp. Also, what's the deal with the "won't matter the age"? you should rather check his kb to see what's about that char for a smarther intel. Yeah, plex will likely be more expensive for a bit, then should drop out. I have alts that I don't care about due to the fact that my main has all I need for this game. So i would unsubscribe the after i strip the sp. 8 less plex/month. There's 2 ways to look at p2w:
. Personal perspective: 'OMG THIS IS NOT FAIR PEOPLE WITH CASH WILL PWN ME AT PVP' <-- I agree with you 100%, this is bullsh*t
. Gameplay perspective: if you pay CCP more, you can progress faster. Or, even worse, if you don't pay CCP more, you'll progress slower <-- this is pretty much the definition of breaking a game for corporate greed
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26433
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:02:50 -
[1474] - Quote
Ace Aideron wrote:I'm in favor of the idea.
First, it's not any more pay-to-play than the character bazaar already is. Yes it is for one simple reason:
The character bazaar does not let you bypass game mechanics; this idea does. The reason for the difference is because we're talking about raw SP rather than collections of skills and because you can trade with yourself. In combination, these two let you bypass the inherent limitation that exists in how quickly a single character can evolve GÇö something the character bazaar does not let you do.
The whole P2W rhetoric is somewhat silly, because it just devolves into a debate of what constitutes GÇ£winGÇ¥ in the game. However, P2W is a just one case of a general class GÇö paying to skip, ignore, or bypass game-mechanical limitations. The SP trading is a very clear example of this, and as such is an inherently bad idea, because all cases belonging to that general class are inherently bad ideas.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
143
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:07:26 -
[1475] - Quote
Will these reallocated SP be sold only on the market or can I trade with my alt?
Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why.
Hunter S. Thompson
|
Divine Entervention
Rational Chaos Inc. Phoebe Freeport Republic
695
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:10:57 -
[1476] - Quote
Great idea CCP +1 thanks for opening the game up a bit more to allow more people to enjoy themselves.
Will probably be looked back as one of the greatest changes EvE ever made once all the tin-foil hat doomsday preppers realize this isn't Y2K. |
Dave Stark
7546
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:12:16 -
[1477] - Quote
Tippia wrote:The character bazaar does not let you bypass game mechanics; this idea does.
no, it doesn't.
those SP still have to be trained by some one. in the same way plex doesn't let you bypass the subscription because some one has to pay for that plex. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4122
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:13:06 -
[1478] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:It will always be cheaper to buy a pre-made character. As it stands now, you can buy one for less than it would cost to make it at today's PLEX prices. What I suspect this will be used for (for most capsuleers) is the occasional top up for people really impatient to get into that new shiny ship that's still a week away from them hopping into it. There will be outliers , of course. The idiots with more money than brains dropping hundreds of dollars in the mistaken belief that SP equals skill. Like I said in my very first post in this thread. It's really much ado about nothing. It won't be a game changer and it won't be the death of EVE in my opinion. It'll just be another option I'll have to think about when character trading. Now I'll have to factor in the option of breaking them down and selling that way. But then, I build characters like this. Good name, good looks and hyper focused. That's how you get a premium price at auction time. I'd likely lose money by breaking her down and just selling the SP. But I'll see how it pans out and make my final decision then. Mr Epeen If the figures will be tweaked correctly, I believe you're right.
But it's still a crap idea, because:
Benefit: as you say, mostly occasional top up. this also means occasional (not constant) aurum milking for CCP
Cost: veterans pissd off (probably irrationally so, but that's how people are), newbros feeling ripped off (rightly so), CCP introducing the first real p2w mechanic in EVE history and exposing themselves to greed accusations
How is this a smart move???
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
Mornak
Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE
58
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:13:26 -
[1479] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote:... Character ages and birth dates will become completely meaningless. ...
the same goes for actions a character takes in the game. you f***ed up big time? no problem, pay some ISK and move the SP's to a brand new alt. or an old alt that has been sitting around unskilled.
for pvp, character age is a very important info, since it allows you to estimate a maximum possible SP on that char. if i fight a late-2014/2015 char sitting in a BS or a HAC or alike, i can safely assume that he's not max-skilled on that ship/equipment.
After this change this will no longer be possible, since a 3 day old char can already have a ton of SP's. Checking KB's, reading char employment history, checking character age and so on are very important for small/solo pvp... at least until now.
..so you replace knowledge and experience with a "random element" (aggressors view). going the extra mile isn't worth anything anymore.
And this downside will not be as big a problem for us high-SP chars, but especially the new characters will suffer from this.
-1 |
E23
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:15:09 -
[1480] - Quote
Only the richest of all players can benefit from this model. Once players can buy and sell SP on the market the price can just raise as SP as a resource is much more limited than ISK is. So either those with the most ISK or those with the most $ will profit from it. And these are the people who already are (or at least look like to be) in an advanced position as both do not need to care about loosing stuff. New players instead care about loosing stuff. And they care about ISK and $. They won't be able to afford buying SP from self-earned ISK. They need to spend real money and they need to spend much of it. Will they?
Even then, sooner or later it will be too much if you do not control the market by fulfilling the demand with supply. So where comes the supply from? Out of nowhere? I can not believe that you at CCP have not considered that. What I can believe is that you do not have the balls to tell us directly you want (or need) to sell SP directly for real money as you fear our response. But you should also fear the results of such a shortsighted approach by ******* us up!
But wait ... wasn't it just about the character bazaar? Isn't it a fact that we can already buy SP with money? No, we can buy characters. And this is a huge difference because we only need a limited amount of characters but an almost unlimited amount of skillpoints.
Please, think again!
TL;DR:
- It would be even fairer for new players if you sell SP directly for AUR as the price would be fixated - It would be more transparent if you do so as you do not need to manipulate the market - It would still need a limiting factor such as addable SP per year - It may THEN be much more reasonable to NOT diminishing the SP/$ proportion based on existing SP as long term subscribers can at least decide whether they want to keep their SP lead by paying more * - It may still be the wrong concept at all **
(*) Though this might sound strange in the context of my introductory statement don't forget that veterans would be penalized with any kind of mechanics that narrows the SP gap. Where I personally feel that having SP more equally distributed on the playerbase (thus lowering the relative advance) can only bring in more fun to the game, a mechanic for keeping the absolute advance would still be present. Sometimes a power creep is the best solution, yes.
(**) Bring in other ideas which not directly involve RMT for SP - e.g. ...
Consider introducing an enormous SP/hour boost for ALL new characters:
- Activate it once a player pays a 3 month subscription (which approx. corresponds to a full price AAA title) or a special 3 month of dual character training - Let it slowly decrease from something like 1M SP on the first day to about 40M in total within this 90 days - Appease the veterans by still introducing the very interesting mechanic of letting us reallocate OUR OWN skills at a given cost (e.g. 50%) and maybe even give away every player 1M SP per year since DOB or per year of subscription / PLEX (yes, again a power creep might sometimes be the best solution) - Do the math and consider the possible revenues of having countless people training up multiple new chars (who really needs uber-SP chars when one can have 3 specialized chars instead?) vs. the risk of looking like a greedy P2W/F2P vendor who eventually kills its cash cow
|
|
Li'Chi Wong
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:16:26 -
[1481] - Quote
- To be able to pay a fee to reallocate a certain number of SPs within a character at set time intervals - YES
- To be able pay a fee to change the name of a character at set time intervals with a way to reference the old names - YES
All the rest ........................... HELL NOOOOOOOO !!!!!!
It is cheaper to buy a pre-made character; you can buy one for less than it would cost to make it at today's PLEX prices.
Leave it at that!!!
If someone wants to buy a high SP toon let them. It works "as is".
It's not broke...... so don't try to fix it !!!!
What would be nice is a way to ......."tune our toons"
CCP can cash in on that and stick it to us......
|
Dave Stark
7546
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:17:38 -
[1482] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote: CCP introducing the first real p2w mechanic in EVE history and exposing themselves to greed accusations
How is this a smart move???
second, we already have the character bazzar if acquiring SP is "winning". |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1673
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:18:23 -
[1483] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote: CCP introducing the first real p2w mechanic in EVE history and exposing themselves to greed accusations
How is this a smart move??? second, we already have the character bazzar if acquiring SP is "winning".
Third, we have plex
Recruiting V I R I I Small Gang Nullsec PVP
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
|
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1752
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:18:33 -
[1484] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Ignorance of reality? The reality is I will never sell my character to anyone else. Therefore it is not a commodity and never will be which makes it as unique as a character can be. It is 'special' in so far as it is mine and only mine. Whatever anyone else does with their characters is entirely up to them. Then this change is of no consequence to you and harms you in no way. Those that don't use it and chose not to commodify their characters or SP can train as normal. I have no intent to use the feature, all the characters I would use it on have horrible return potential, but I see no reason to deny others.
It 'harms' me be changing the game so that a player with more RL money than me can just choose to be as competitive as me in each or all of the various areas I make ISK in simply by throwing RL money at it (or spare ISK if backed by one of the major groups with trillions to spare}. It also harms me as this will inevitably lead to an increase in PLEX way above and beyond the inflation we are currently seeing in them. It also changes one of the core tenets of the game that actions and decisions have persistent consequences.
It also offends my sensibilities in Lore terms :D I'm fine with skillbooks being some kind of nanobots injected in to make certain areas of the brain more plastic and pre-wired to assist in learning a skill. I'm not fine with the idea of simply rewriting a section of someones brain with a copy of a section of someone else's entirely different brain.
If CCP want to give players a way to speed up SP we as players can do very little about it. It would have been better in my opinion to allow new players to buy a new kind of cerebral accelerator that is produced in game and has diminishing returns up to say 50 mil SP (capped). Still not sure I'd like this but then you could always reward those characters who retain their original un-enhanced brain with a slightly better baseline learning rate than someone who uses the accelerators or something. |
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
41
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:21:22 -
[1485] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Great idea CCP +1 thanks for opening the game up a bit more to allow more people to enjoy themselves.
Will probably be looked back as one of the greatest changes EvE ever made once all the tin-foil hat doomsday preppers realize this isn't Y2K.
Except it will not happen, no matter how much you spam without any real arguments. Even if it happens, you would not play for too long before the game dies. Lose-Lose scenario for you :/
There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26440
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:22:15 -
[1486] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Tippia wrote:The character bazaar does not let you bypass game mechanics; this idea does. no, it doesn't. Yes it does, again, because we're talking raw SP.
Yes, the SP have to be trained, but they can be trained and applied in parallel and without limitation to the pre-existing progression mechanics of the character.
You bypass the mechanic that limit a single character to earn SP at 2700 SP/h. That character can now trivially acquire SP at two, three, ten times that speed if you're willing to pay for it. The parallelisation did not exist before, nor the direct effect on the pre-existing character.
Granted, trading entire skills bypasses the exact same mechanical limit, but it does so with strict limitations on applicability and parallelisation.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4125
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:22:56 -
[1487] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Tippia wrote:The character bazaar does not let you bypass game mechanics; this idea does. no, it doesn't. those SP still have to be trained by some one. in the same way plex doesn't let you bypass the subscription because some one has to pay for that plex. Nope, read Tippia's post again.
A subscription is a tradable commodity: I can pay for my friend's subscription even without the PLEX mechanic.
ISK, as all other in-game virtual assets, is a tradable commodity: I'm free to give my ISK, ships, stuff to my friend even without him selling PLEX to buy them from me.
A character is a commodity in a sense: though it's against the EULA, from a gameplay perspective anyone can log in with my characters with no impact whatsoever on the game mechanics.
SP, until now at least, has never been a tradable commodity. Trading or even re-allocating SP is changing game mechanics just as, say, 'trading' 3,000 m/s speed on my interceptor orbiting a rock in highsec to boost the speed of your battleship PVPing in nullsec.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
Li'Chi Wong
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:22:59 -
[1488] - Quote
Eternal Bob wrote:Scott Dracov wrote:I am an individual with unique real life aviation ... experiences rofl Why do you keep mentioning this as if it has any relevance at all? Better listen to this guy, CCP, he can fly a plane IRL.
I can fly them too and I'm licensed to repair them also, and I fly paragliders Wow ......does that mean CCP will listen to me too...lol
|
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1777
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:24:11 -
[1489] - Quote
I have one major concern with this, in that the supply of "wasted" skills is extremely limited. After the initial flurry, there will be very few or none remaining. The effect of this is the initial supply will be bought up and simply become a chew toy for traders and speculators, and none will remain for actual ecenomic use by players.
Actually I like the developers idea with two provisos.
1. Make the loaded storage device perishable but tradable within that limit. This ensure eventual use rather than just being another trade token. Players can extend this by purchasing and placing the trained "stem cells" in a fresh storage container.
2. Preserve lost skillpoints when applying to experienced characters in a pool and redistribute during emergencies :) and celebrations
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
Divine Entervention
Rational Chaos Inc. Phoebe Freeport Republic
695
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:24:15 -
[1490] - Quote
No one is going to force you to give up your skill points.
If you don't want other people to buy your skill points, well then you don't have to extract them for sale.
Giving a veteran an opportunity to make a choice that not only benefits him self isk-financially but whomever decides to trade that fair amount to receive the product is only a win-win for everyone involved.
The only people who incorrectly think there is any negative are those who are imagining that their own skill point totals are some how going to become devalued.
My getting to have more skill points isn't going to make your already collected SP any less valuable. |
|
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
499
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:25:51 -
[1491] - Quote
I had to check to make sure this wasn't dated April 1st.
First off, all the downsides you bring up with the Character Bazarr, are your own making. You could fix them if you were motivated to. You could make the buying/selling/trading of Characters a totally in-game mechanic, easily seen. You could make your own way to display skills and other important information without having to rely on Chribba's. You could let them resculpt their character, hell you could let them rename their character, though I am personally against that. So lets just call all of those excuses what they are, BS.
The Pay2Win aspects of this have been stated, so lets just assume I've covered much of them again and save ourselves a few paragraphs.
So here we are, when this happens you have no way of knowing if that 1 day old toon is just a lost noob, an alt, of a perfect skilled Titan pilot. One of the great things about Eve is what skills take X amount of time. Period. You can get implants but those are there for all. Everyone is on the same field, and always has been.
Near as I can tell from the devblog, you've added yet another reason people will need PLEX, and a market for them, driving up an item that is already reaching/reached the point of being unobtainable to all serious players. Gone are the days the casual weekend players can cover their costs (sure, Some can, but most can't.)
You've removed the Consequences that we all get preached on in Eve. Death has Consequences. But so did Life. You had a Corp History. You had to decide how to train your character. How to manage your time. Now you have no corp history, no need to ever decide how to manage your time if you have a CC. Hell you don't even have to worry about buying a toon with a bad history/rep/wasted SP because you just make your the way you want as needed.
It's a bad idea. Truly. I'd actually rather you put Officer Modules in the Aurum Store, than ever implement this. |
Pronoes
The Volition Cult
9
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:25:51 -
[1492] - Quote
Alensin Penshar wrote:
Are you paying attention, 18,445 pilots! Where the heck is Goonswarm for crying out loud! They have more pilots than that by like 3 to 1.
Lol. Maybe you should train Research I |
Dave Stark
7547
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:27:14 -
[1493] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Tippia wrote:The character bazaar does not let you bypass game mechanics; this idea does. no, it doesn't. Yes it does, because again, we're talking raw SP. This creates a situation that is vastly different from how the bazaar works. Yes, the SP have to be trained, but they can be trained and applied in parallel and without limitation to the pre-existing progression mechanics of the character. You bypass the mechanic that limit a single character to earn SP at 2700 SP/h. That character can now trivially acquire SP at two, three, ten times that speed if you're willing to pay for it. The parallelisation did not exist before, nor the direct effect on the pre-existing character. Granted, trading entire skills bypasses the exact same mechanical limit, but it does so with strict limitations on applicability and parallelisation.
all you've demonstrated is that this invalidates a function whereby age of a character determines the potential max sp it could have.
the loss of this, is... trivial and irrelevant.
I could always have a character that accumulated SP at 10x the rate mine had accumulated it; i could go and buy it from the bazzar.
not to mention there's that little thing where only a finite number of skills affect any one thing, and those skills are all capped at V so it's not like there's some hidden content behind some kind of pay wall. |
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
177
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:29:45 -
[1494] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:I don't like this. Could be worse, but I don't like it.
A lowish hard cap would make it not as bad. But it still leads to "I just subscribed, but unless I spend more real money, I'll always be behind" For this to be even considered the hard cap would have to be no more than 20m SP. Anymore than 20m unallocated SP is just far too powerful. Even 20m seems like far too much, with 20m unallocated you can do a hell of a lot.
But this even then it is still a bad idea. Why not just improve the character bazaar. It has hardly been touched since it was released. For a start it could be integrated into the game. And I wouldn't be against more options to remodel the character (including name and history) for a cost.
Suggestion for a rebalance of ECM - Modulated ECM Effects
|
Wiccan999
Starwinders NINE PIECES OF EIGHT
19
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:32:25 -
[1495] - Quote
I normally don't react to this stuff , but come on CCP......really???
This is the worst Idea you had since monocoles...
So NO please , just do yourself a favor , and don't ever implement this.
|
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
500
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:32:49 -
[1496] - Quote
Also, nice, near as I could see not a single post by a CSM supporting this. If as they all say they were against it in private, well then you can't say that you were warned. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26442
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:33:01 -
[1497] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:I could always have a character that accumulated SP at 10x the rate mine had accumulated it; i could go and buy it from the bazzar. No, you could never do that. You could only ever accumulate SP on a character at the speed dictated by the character's attributes. With this change, no such limit exists.
By trading SP rather than skills, accumulation speed has no upper limit and only depends on your willingness to shell out cash, and thus you have a situation where you pay to bypass a mechanical limitation GÇö a limitation that is in place in full force in the bazaar (which is why the bazaar doesn't break things).
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4126
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:34:33 -
[1498] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote: CCP introducing the first real p2w mechanic in EVE history and exposing themselves to greed accusations
How is this a smart move??? second, we already have the character bazzar if acquiring SP is "winning". Character bazaar =/= SP bazaar.
But hey, if Rise's sweet talk already convinced you that they're exactly the same thing, I'm afraid I can't help you.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9247
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:34:45 -
[1499] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:If you don't want other people to buy your skill points, well then you don't have to extract them for sale. But you can always do what I plan on doing. Just extract all the stupid skills off the characters I play regularly (how good will it feel to finally have a character without mining injected) and trash them if it doesn't add up to whatever the minimum is.
I don't care about getting ISK for a few days worth of SP, but I've been asking for years for CCP to allow us the option of simply deleting skills we don't want. I truly hope this will be possible if this goes through. I hope there will not be a mandatory minimum set on skill removal.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Hulk Miner
White Horse Incorporated
34
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 09:36:58 -
[1500] - Quote
Stop with this craziness and just revamp the character bazaar. I don't pay RL cash to sub multiple accounts for crazy ideas like this to be dreamt up.
Do something more constructive and make the bazaar more like EBAY style bidding so you can bid and win characters then confirm on the forum to transfer ISK to the seller. It would make it a bit more visually interesting.
Don't sell out for cashcows. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 [50] 60 70 80 90 100 200 .. 220 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |