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Erin Sluuk
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
1
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Posted - 2015.10.16 15:07:10 -
[1] - Quote
I'm setting out to make a pilgrim fit for solo skullduggery. Pyfa has been a great ally. I'm going to make some bullet points about why various stuff is fitted, feel free to ignore them and just look at the fits if you like. I have some questions at the end also.
My thoughts so far
GÇó Capacitor is stable @ 62.1% with the medium repairer off and all neuts on. Cap stable at 29.8% with repairer on and both medium neuts off (small neut left on to keep target cap at 0). You can overheat the rep cap stably too
GÇó Out of cap charges in 5 minutes and 35 seconds if they're used non-stop, total omni-tank of 108,192 armor points if repairer is ran non-stop too
GÇó Armor thermic hardener rather than second EANM in order to have bonus vs phased plasma (afraid of capless guns that can wrecking shot) and gallente drones (most common among ratters I'm guessing.)
GÇó 335 omni tank per second tanks 5x medium/3x heavy drones with Gallente droneship bonuses, overheated repairer tanks 5x heavies. Bonus tank vs ogres/hammerheads due to high thermal resist
GÇó MWD for escaping bubbles, AB for speedtanking missiles and general going fast during fights
GÇó Capacitor booster because a passive capacitor regen fit can't fit an active tank plus neuts (also provides panic-cap if I get capped out and need to warp out)
GÇó No nosferatu because the objective is to keep the target at 0 capacitor, where a nos will be pointless
GÇó 17.2k makes it pretty hard to 1hit volley it, I don't think maelstrom arty can hit much higher than that (might be wrong)
I wondered if there's better tank to be had by removing the Damage Control, which led me to
Adaptive armor hardener pilgrim
GÇó Reactive armor module takes 4x 5-second cycles = 20 seconds (17 if overheated) to shift all its resists into whatever damage types are hitting your ship
GÇó If only one damage-type is hitting it, it gets the equivalent of a Selynne's armor hardener in that damage type (60%)
GÇó Maximum reactive armor'd tank vs EM (the ship's resist hole): 477.5 hp/s with repairer unheated, 610 with heat
GÇó vs explosive (the ship's strongest resist): 795 hp/s, 1017 with heat
GÇó Swapped out 1x nanobot accelerator for auxiliary nano pump in order to free up the cap to run the reactive armor hardener
Questions
Fit #1 or fit #2?
What would you change?
Ship's main threats? (I'm thinking drones, light missiles and wrecking shots from artillery currently)
If an artillery ship has all of its artillery guns grouped together, and it gets a lucky 1% wrecking shot as I'm orbiting, will every gun in the group inflict the wrecking shot damage (potentially instakilling me), or will only one of the guns inflict that damage? |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
12465
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:02:51 -
[2] - Quote
imperial navy enams and t1 rigs...you're making my teeth itchy ,if you are going to get fancy with a cruiser get t2 rigs.
i recommend you try this with a stratios instead. bigger tank, better dps, takes blink much better than a pilgrim, worse at neuting admittedly but imo its a better boat to try this with
Better the Devil you know.
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Erin Sluuk
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
1
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:09:31 -
[3] - Quote
They are indeed T2 rigs already though, guess you missed 'em.
Problem with stratios for me is it doesn't have the cap pressure to cap out a ton of things that this can. And the tank differential probably isn't very big when the tracking disruptor is taken into account. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
12467
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:13:15 -
[4] - Quote
Erin Sluuk wrote:They are indeed T2 rigs already though, guess you missed 'em.
Problem is I don't think stratios has the cap pressure to cap out ratting battleships and whatnot, and this does. derp, my bad, they are indeed.
and fair enough, now i know what you were thinking of hunting it makes more sense.
Better the Devil you know.
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Hochopepa
POS Consultants Group LLC
9
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:21:23 -
[5] - Quote
I like type 1, type 2 relying on reactive armor plates is.... just not my cup of tea. |
Erin Sluuk
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
1
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Posted - 2015.10.16 19:42:30 -
[6] - Quote
What makes me not-so-wary of the reactive armor is that the bare minimum you'll be getting from it, assuming you aren't capped out, is -15% each. Because even if they do a Space Judo move and attack you with one damage type to migrate all your reactive resistance to it, then attack you with another ammo while the reactive is re-moving its resists, you can turn the reactive module off and on in order to reset it to -15% across the board. At 5.0 second increments it doesn't take long to do this, if you notice they are suddenly applying better.
So, even in the worst case scenario it's only a smidgeon worse than a damage control (322 omni-tank per second compared to 335). And in the best case, it takes you way up to crazy tank amounts.
Another thing that makes me feel optimistic about reactive armor, here, is that the main things that can apply to this ship, drones and light missiles, don't do split damage.
However, maybe it would be better to put an EM hardener in place of the reactive armor, to cover my resist hole. But I don't feel it's a good choice because most people don't think EM will be good vs armor, the people this is fighting will probably be slightly off-guard, and Amarr drones, which are the EM drones, do the least damage of all drones. |
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
279
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Posted - 2015.10.16 23:54:11 -
[7] - Quote
Stratios is better in all ways except neut amount. Its what Pilgrim should have been imho
Oderint Dum Metuant
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Ahed Sten
82
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Posted - 2015.10.18 07:06:01 -
[8] - Quote
Aralieus wrote:Stratios is better in all ways except neut amount. Its what Pilgrim should have been imho
Not a pilgrim pro by any stretch of the imagination, but:
There is no reason for you to need cap stability, thats what a booster is for. Also no reason for dual prop. I'd probably go with an AB because cloak and you already have enough strain on your cap already with the 3 neuts and repper. Also, active reps on anything meant for solo make me horny, but i've found that they're not very viable on the Pilgrim and you're probably better off with a plate and some Trimarks. Would love for someone to prove me wrong though.
1. Your worst enemy will be missile boats, followed closely by drone boats. Light missiles shouldn't be a problem unless it's a Garmur that can both scram, point and hit you from outside of your own neut and point range. Generally speaking, you'll want to avoid missile and drone boats unless they're small or you're certain you can kill them.
2. Armor hardener resets to 15/15/15/15 resists every time you deactivate the module.
3. The only artillery that should be able to track a Pilgrim orbitting under guns are mediums and below, and I'm not even so sure about the mediums. So no, if you decloak properly he won't be getting any lucky wrecking shots.
You're probably just better off using a Stratios instead.
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Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
615
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Posted - 2015.10.18 22:06:43 -
[9] - Quote
it's interesting but on your Pilgrim fits it's shown 312/315 m3 of drone cargohold been used
anyway here is the fit you may consider, you could swap DDA for thermal hardener, and swap thermal rig for another nanobot or either pump.
[Pilgrim]
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste Damage Control II Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane x2 Drone Damage Amplifier II
100MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner Imperial Navy Small Capacitor Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400 Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script Warp Disruptor II Warp Scrambler II
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I x2 Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump II Medium Nanobot Accelerator II
Hammerhead II x6 Hornet EC-300 x6 Valkyrie II x6
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Bastion Arzi
Angry Mustellid Decayed Orbit
259
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Posted - 2015.10.19 10:01:13 -
[10] - Quote
no offense renfus but according to ur killboard u dont have much pvp experience at all to be making comments such as this |
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Renekton Umitsu
Useless Idea
0
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Posted - 2015.10.21 14:17:12 -
[11] - Quote
Try that fit. I spent many hours on finding the most universal pilgrim fit. And this is what I got. All ship with active tank, sniper with fast ship or capacitor need gun will die quickly. Only myrm with 2 medium capacitor booster is exception. The main threat is passive gila and other bufor ship with dron, misile or pojectile gun.
[Pilgrim, Pilgrim fit]
Ammatar Navy Medium Armor Repairer Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Nanobot Accelerator II Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Hammerhead II x5 Valkyrie II x5 Vespa EC-600 x5 |
Chessur
Mining Industry Exile Foundation Warlords of the Deep
615
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Posted - 2015.10.23 11:56:06 -
[12] - Quote
Is there a reason you would choose a pilgrim over a stratios? If you are looking for a cloaky drone hunter. Stratios has so much more to offer |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1289
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Posted - 2015.10.23 13:37:45 -
[13] - Quote
I'm a fan of the ASB pilgrim. Neuts from 24km, points from 24km, goes some 2km/s and got 320ish dps. Armortanking a Pilgrim just seems... wrong. |
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
282
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Posted - 2015.10.24 08:09:12 -
[14] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:I'm a fan of the ASB pilgrim. Neuts from 24km, points from 24km, goes some 2km/s and got 320ish dps. Armortanking a Pilgrim just seems... wrong.
One heavy neut and your toast, get a curse if you want to shield tank. That's what it was made for.
Oderint Dum Metuant
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1291
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Posted - 2015.10.24 12:26:50 -
[15] - Quote
Aralieus wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:I'm a fan of the ASB pilgrim. Neuts from 24km, points from 24km, goes some 2km/s and got 320ish dps. Armortanking a Pilgrim just seems... wrong. One heavy neut and your toast, get a curse if you want to shield tank. That's what it was made for.
Got a cap booster, thanks I'm fine. What does that Curse reference mean? Am I supposed to spring the trap while moving my 25km neuts into scramrange because another ship is darker? |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
359
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Posted - 2015.10.24 13:23:11 -
[16] - Quote
Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Co-Processor II
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor Warp Disruptor II Small Capacitor Booster II X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
400 DPS with Hammerheads and 525 DPS tanked. This ship will be incredible when the missile disruptors are released. Replace the tracking disruptor with one of those and you can kill any target. If they're a missile boat, the disruptor means they can't hit you. If they're using guns, you cap them out and they can't shoot. |
Erin Sluuk
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2015.10.24 15:30:25 -
[17] - Quote
But it has no afterburner, which is odd for something with a tracking disruptor. And having only one TD means it will always be vulnerable to either missiles or capless guns.
That's why I don't like the idea of shield pilgrim. |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
359
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Posted - 2015.10.24 17:17:25 -
[18] - Quote
Erin Sluuk wrote:But it has no afterburner, which is odd for something with a tracking disruptor. And having only one TD means it will always be vulnerable to either missiles or capless guns.
That's why I don't like the idea of shield pilgrim.
Projectiles suck and are rarely used these days. |
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
282
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Posted - 2015.10.24 20:27:16 -
[19] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Aralieus wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:I'm a fan of the ASB pilgrim. Neuts from 24km, points from 24km, goes some 2km/s and got 320ish dps. Armortanking a Pilgrim just seems... wrong. One heavy neut and your toast, get a curse if you want to shield tank. That's what it was made for. Got a cap booster, thanks I'm fine. What does that Curse reference mean? Am I supposed to spring the trap while moving my 25km neuts into scramrange because another ship is darker?
I'm not sure what you're referring to but Curse has 37km neuts and is built for kiting and to be shield tanked. Shield tanking a Pilgrim just seems...wrong and really inefficient not to mention your probably rocking a small cap booster which can't keep up with everything you're going to have running.
To OP:
Fit #1 or fit #2? Honestly neither, you don't need to be dual-propped if you're hunting with the Pilgrim in the way it was made to hunt. You also have next to no buffer and neither fit has a web. You're going to want some buffer to soak up some that initial damage you're going to take then when your in a comfortable orbit and have target capped out and TD'ing his guns into nothingness you can rep it back up with your repper. Your fits will explode before you even make it to that point. Also I web is a powerful tool on a Pilgrim, don't underestimate that.
What would you change? More buffer and get a web
Ship's main threats? (I'm thinking drones, light missiles and wrecking shots from artillery currently) Heavy drones and Sentry's will hurt you, however, with a web and some luck you can kill enough of them to bring the damage down to a manageable level with your bonused drones. Missiles hurt but probably not as much as you think, with a faction or deadspace medium repper you can get into some nice tight orbits with respectable speed to mitigate alot of the damage. Artillery ships should never ever be a problem for a Pilgrim. If you know you're going up against one, don't uncloak till your right in his face then his long range guns mean nothing with a solid orbit and your TD with a tracking speed script loaded.
Your worst enemy's will be other neut boats and things with high passive shield tanks; read: Gila
If an artillery ship has all of its artillery guns grouped together, and it gets a lucky 1% wrecking shot as I'm orbiting, will every gun in the group inflict the wrecking shot damage (potentially instakilling me), or will only one of the guns inflict that damage? Once again, know thy enemy. Long range guns should never be a problem for a Pilgrim that's flown correctly.
If I damage myself before going into combat, will the armor hardener be pre-hardened to that damage type, or does it reset when outside combat or something? Also is there any way to actually self-damage besides with an alt? (basically would just use this to see what ammo/drones a ratter is using while cloaked, warp out and damage self with that damage type to pre-harden, then warp back in and be extra tanky) Why waste precious time, get in there and kill the bastard before he realizes what you're up to and docks up!
Here is solid fit for you: [Pilgrim, Chaos]
Drone Damage Amplifier II<----If you need extra tank, swap for a Damage Control Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste Reactive Armor Hardener Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Imperial Navy 1600mm Steel Plates
Dark Blood Stasis Webifier True Sansha Warp Scrambler Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400 Tracking Disruptor II, Tracking Speed Disruption Script 10MN Afterburner II<------Bling this out if you can afford to, sometimes the extra boost in speed can mean a world of difference
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Sisters Core Probe Launcher
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump II Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Warrior II x5 Gecko x1
Optimal Range Disruption Script x1 Tracking Speed Disruption Script x1 Navy Cap Booster 400 x24
Oderint Dum Metuant
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Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
359
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Posted - 2015.10.24 20:53:08 -
[20] - Quote
Aralieus wrote:I'm not sure what you're referring to but Curse has 37km neuts and is built for kiting and to be shield tanked. Shield tanking a Pilgrim just seems...wrong and really inefficient not to mention your probably rocking a small cap booster which can't keep up with everything you're going to have running.
It's cap stable with the MWD off.You can replace the MWD with an AB and then stick a medium cap booster on there if you want instead of the small. IMHO, its far better to have a MWD. A competent gate camp will easily kill you with just an AB fitted, you have a much better chance of escaping with a MWD. Right now you might actually want to dualprop it instead so you can both escape gatecamps as well as speed tanking missiles. Guns aren't actually a problem since you'll just cap them out.
Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Co-Processor II
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner Warp Disruptor II Small Capacitor Booster II X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Medium Unstable Power Fluctutator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctutator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctutator I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II |
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