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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
658
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 16:42:22 -
[601] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hi folks. Thanks for the feedback so far in this thread. After going over the discussion here, we agree that the Tristan is still a little too tanky, so we're adding a reduction in structure HP to its changes. We will of course continue monitoring feedback both before and after release. What about the comet? It completely overshadows the other navy frigs. Take away some of its dronebay/bandwidth at least. What are your plans for the muninn which has completely lost its role since the navy cane? Will we see a proper minmatar brawler HAC? Sure structure tanking tristans are annoying, but managable. Comets are just outright OP. they have almost the same base structure/armor/shield as a destroyer and drones w/ replacements.. you actually think the muninn was good before the bc buffs?
It had its niche as a decent tracking alpha boat. Never thought it was "good" per say, but it was fun to alpha frigs with while going 3k/s (OH). It was poor in most fleet settings and barely managable in a solo role. The fleet cane is cheaper or on par in price, has better alpha, tracking, dps and more drones/utility. Plus it can sport a better tank than the muninn. It eclipses it in a fleet role short of speed/sig.
So yea the muninn has always been pretty poor, but with the fleet cane out, there is 0 reason to use one except for lulz.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1179
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 16:47:45 -
[602] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hi folks. Thanks for the feedback so far in this thread. After going over the discussion here, we agree that the Tristan is still a little too tanky, so we're adding a reduction in structure HP to its changes. We will of course continue monitoring feedback both before and after release. What about the comet? It completely overshadows the other navy frigs. Take away some of its dronebay/bandwidth at least. What are your plans for the muninn which has completely lost its role since the navy cane? Will we see a proper minmatar brawler HAC? Sure structure tanking tristans are annoying, but managable. Comets are just outright OP. they have almost the same base structure/armor/shield as a destroyer and drones w/ replacements.. you actually think the muninn was good before the bc buffs? It had its niche as a decent tracking alpha boat. Never thought it was "good" per say, but it was fun to alpha frigs with while going 3k/s (OH). It was poor in most fleet settings and barely managable in a solo role. The fleet cane is cheaper or on par in price, has better alpha, tracking, dps and more drones/utility. Plus it can sport a better tank than the muninn. It eclipses it in a fleet role short of speed/sig. So yea the muninn has always been pretty poor, but with the fleet cane out, there is 0 reason to use one except for lulz.
but speed and sig is the entire point of using smaller ships. I could go for a minmatar missile hac, preferably not kiteshit. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
658
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 16:56:14 -
[603] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hi folks. Thanks for the feedback so far in this thread. After going over the discussion here, we agree that the Tristan is still a little too tanky, so we're adding a reduction in structure HP to its changes. We will of course continue monitoring feedback both before and after release. What about the comet? It completely overshadows the other navy frigs. Take away some of its dronebay/bandwidth at least. What are your plans for the muninn which has completely lost its role since the navy cane? Will we see a proper minmatar brawler HAC? Sure structure tanking tristans are annoying, but managable. Comets are just outright OP. they have almost the same base structure/armor/shield as a destroyer and drones w/ replacements.. you actually think the muninn was good before the bc buffs? It had its niche as a decent tracking alpha boat. Never thought it was "good" per say, but it was fun to alpha frigs with while going 3k/s (OH). It was poor in most fleet settings and barely managable in a solo role. The fleet cane is cheaper or on par in price, has better alpha, tracking, dps and more drones/utility. Plus it can sport a better tank than the muninn. It eclipses it in a fleet role short of speed/sig. So yea the muninn has always been pretty poor, but with the fleet cane out, there is 0 reason to use one except for lulz. but speed and sig is the entire point of using smaller ships. I could go for a minmatar missile hac, preferably not kiteshit.
Depends on the role. For me speed and sig are not an issue when using my arty kite cane. It has such good tracking and alpha, most of the smaller **** can be popped before theyre even an issue. Against bigger things the raw alpha will normally bypass active tanks and bleed structure.
In a fleet setting against BS, sure prob not a good idea. But against other BCs or cruisers, it will still work well and sport a better tank in either config than the muninn.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
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Matthew Dust
Valklear Legionnaires
46
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 16:59:46 -
[604] - Quote
no need to take t3's out of small plexes, just a need to make assault frigates more viable, they have good tank, decent damage, making them suitable for heavy tackle, just give them hardcore heavy tackle bonus, let them use that focused warp disruption script, and an extra mid. Even if you take them out, it's not going to solve the issue of garmurs in small plexes that have so much initial velocity going that they burn out of the initial scram range |
Rodent Sie
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2015.11.25 01:54:32 -
[605] - Quote
31 pages of content regarding the nerfing of ships... and not one post that asks the obvious question, where is the nerf bat regarding the catalyst? Obviously it is OP as hell or all the high sec gankers wouldn't be exclusively using this ship to gank the poor helpless miners. |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
531
|
Posted - 2015.11.25 02:11:24 -
[606] - Quote
Rodent Sie wrote:31 pages of content regarding the nerfing of ships... and not one post that asks the obvious question, where is the nerf bat regarding the catalyst? Obviously it is OP as hell or all the high sec gankers wouldn't be exclusively using this ship to gank the poor helpless miners. cata is only op at ganking. it isnt op at fighting at all. which is why its no where in the rest of eve.
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
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Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
315
|
Posted - 2015.11.25 03:55:42 -
[607] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:
5 drones not 9
Blow up drones, profit.
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Fourteen Maken
Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance
243
|
Posted - 2015.11.25 07:16:58 -
[608] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hi folks. Thanks for the feedback so far in this thread. After going over the discussion here, we agree that the Tristan is still a little too tanky, so we're adding a reduction in structure HP to its changes. We will of course continue monitoring feedback both before and after release. you should properly fix hull tanking, put a penalty on the rigs or something. they're way too good and have pretty much broken novice plex afterburner warrioring.
I like hull tanking as it is but I think turret ships should get the main use of it instead of drone boats, also some amarr boats should get a hull buff to give them an alternative to armor tanking for solo. So for frigs I think Tristan was best, why not give it to atron and executioner instead? For destroyers give it to coercer and catalyst instead of dragoon and algos, for cruisers give more hull hp to omen and thorax instead of the vexor and so on. It just suits turrets better than drones, and it gives armor ships a closer equivalent to shield tanking.
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Goldensaver
Lom Corporation Just let it happen
421
|
Posted - 2015.11.25 16:46:21 -
[609] - Quote
Fourteen Maken wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hi folks. Thanks for the feedback so far in this thread. After going over the discussion here, we agree that the Tristan is still a little too tanky, so we're adding a reduction in structure HP to its changes. We will of course continue monitoring feedback both before and after release. you should properly fix hull tanking, put a penalty on the rigs or something. they're way too good and have pretty much broken novice plex afterburner warrioring. I like hull tanking as it is but I think turret ships should get the main use of it instead of drone boats, also some amarr boats should get a hull buff to give them an alternative to armor tanking for solo. So for frigs I think Tristan was best, why not give it to atron and executioner instead? For destroyers give it to coercer and catalyst instead of dragoon and algos, for cruisers give more hull hp to omen and thorax instead of the vexor and so on. It just suits turrets better than drones, and it gives armor ships a closer equivalent to shield tanking.
The issue with hull tanking is that there is no drawback to it. There is no penalty. Armour has mass and speed penalties, shield has it a bit better with sig radius penalties. But hull doesn't have ****. A bit of agility and cargo space. There should be at least a bit more of an agility penalty. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1179
|
Posted - 2015.11.25 18:03:52 -
[610] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote:Fourteen Maken wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hi folks. Thanks for the feedback so far in this thread. After going over the discussion here, we agree that the Tristan is still a little too tanky, so we're adding a reduction in structure HP to its changes. We will of course continue monitoring feedback both before and after release. you should properly fix hull tanking, put a penalty on the rigs or something. they're way too good and have pretty much broken novice plex afterburner warrioring. I like hull tanking as it is but I think turret ships should get the main use of it instead of drone boats, also some amarr boats should get a hull buff to give them an alternative to armor tanking for solo. So for frigs I think Tristan was best, why not give it to atron and executioner instead? For destroyers give it to coercer and catalyst instead of dragoon and algos, for cruisers give more hull hp to omen and thorax instead of the vexor and so on. It just suits turrets better than drones, and it gives armor ships a closer equivalent to shield tanking. The issue with hull tanking is that there is no drawback to it. There is no penalty. Armour has mass and speed penalties, shield has it a bit better with sig radius penalties. But hull doesn't have ****. A bit of agility and cargo space. There should be at least a bit more of an agility penalty.
it's also omni-resists and capless, there's just no counterplay at all. really bad and not fun once you get over the 'lol hull tanking so funny' aspect. you don't even get the agility penalty if you're running aar + just hull rigs, like is optimal on a tristan or comet (which were already the best frigates before hull rigs were added).
I'd suggest just removing it from the game because it's dumb. |
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Paladin Genghis Khanid
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
11
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 04:34:45 -
[611] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hi folks. Thanks for the feedback so far in this thread. After going over the discussion here, we agree that the Tristan is still a little too tanky, so we're adding a reduction in structure HP to its changes. We will of course continue monitoring feedback both before and after release.
Structure hitpoints:) Yeah, that will totally kill its tank.
How about limiting it's drone range? |
elitatwo
Eve Minions The-Company
915
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 12:36:17 -
[612] - Quote
Paladin Genghis Khanid wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hi folks. Thanks for the feedback so far in this thread. After going over the discussion here, we agree that the Tristan is still a little too tanky, so we're adding a reduction in structure HP to its changes. We will of course continue monitoring feedback both before and after release. How about limiting its drone range?
Or how about a fitting restriction for bulkheads?
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Fourteen Maken
Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance
243
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 23:16:28 -
[613] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Goldensaver wrote:Fourteen Maken wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hi folks. Thanks for the feedback so far in this thread. After going over the discussion here, we agree that the Tristan is still a little too tanky, so we're adding a reduction in structure HP to its changes. We will of course continue monitoring feedback both before and after release. you should properly fix hull tanking, put a penalty on the rigs or something. they're way too good and have pretty much broken novice plex afterburner warrioring. I like hull tanking as it is but I think turret ships should get the main use of it instead of drone boats, also some amarr boats should get a hull buff to give them an alternative to armor tanking for solo. So for frigs I think Tristan was best, why not give it to atron and executioner instead? For destroyers give it to coercer and catalyst instead of dragoon and algos, for cruisers give more hull hp to omen and thorax instead of the vexor and so on. It just suits turrets better than drones, and it gives armor ships a closer equivalent to shield tanking. The issue with hull tanking is that there is no drawback to it. There is no penalty. Armour has mass and speed penalties, shield has it a bit better with sig radius penalties. But hull doesn't have ****. A bit of agility and cargo space. There should be at least a bit more of an agility penalty. it's also omni-resists and capless, there's just no counterplay at all. really bad and not fun once you get over the 'lol hull tanking so funny' aspect. you don't even get the agility penalty if you're running aar + just hull rigs, like is optimal on a tristan or comet (which were already the best frigates before hull rigs were added). I'd suggest just removing it from the game because it's dumb.
It's just a decent buffer tank there's no way to active tank with it and no way to get reps, after nearly every fight you have to dock up and repair. It only really works on a few ships and even those are usually fit with armor or shield instead so it's not like you get amazing tank out of it, you get okay tank but you don't have to use many fitting slots to get a respectable tank, that's why we use it... it's not for omni resists because 60% resist profile is not special, and nearly all armor and shield buffer tanks are capless anyway (apart from invuln fields which are not that common in pvp)
most tristans are shield tanked, but well I always used the Hull tanked tristan so i won't argue there it is very strong, same with the comet it was already very strong before hull tanking. But this is why i say make it an option for some of the lesser used ships in the game instead of the already good ships getting even more of a buff.
Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war:
The sinews of war; infinite money.
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Dantelion Shinoni
SQUIDS.
20
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 01:29:41 -
[614] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hi folks. Thanks for the feedback so far in this thread. After going over the discussion here, we agree that the Tristan is still a little too tanky, so we're adding a reduction in structure HP to its changes. We will of course continue monitoring feedback both before and after release. What about the comet? It completely overshadows the other navy frigs. Take away some of its dronebay/bandwidth at least.[...] Sure structure tanking tristans are annoying, but managable. Comets are just outright OP. they have almost the same base structure/armor/shield as a destroyer and drones w/ replacements..
It's the Gallente poster boy in FW, so you won't see it get nerfed ever :^)
Seriously though, the problem is not stricture tanking on Tristans, it's that them being pure drone boats frees a lot of fitting space they can abuse.
Doing some micro-nerfs is useless, and at worst smells of wanting to fake a proper balancing of it.
Address the fitting space as a Drone boat of the Tristan or just admit you want the ship to stay oppressive.
(Approximately) Same thing for the Comet. |
Davis TetrisKing
The Vendunari End of Life
151
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 02:06:56 -
[615] - Quote
I'm really surprised at the Tristan hull nerf. I mean hull tristans are good, but I still see a lot more kitey shield tristans out there. I think the biggest advantage of the tristan is that drones are so versatile. There is no limit on engagement range and you don't need the high slots, which frees up a lot of PG/CPU or gives you lots of options for utility highs.
It seems the issue people have with tristans is their versatility. They can be shield, armor or hull tanked, active or passive tanked, brawlers or kiters. And they have enough drones/drone hp that they'll kill you 1v1 before you can chew through all their drones. When you come across one in FW it's a pretty big gamble as to how they're fit.
I dont know how to balance this, but I think nerfing their hull just takes away one of the more interesting things about them, but largely leaves the main issues untouched.
I think the nerfs could be applied to drones themselves, especially considering how many of the nerfs recently have been to done boats (Ishtar, Gila, Worm, Tristan). Not just flat dps nerfs, but things like slowing their MWD speeds so that kiting drones is a normal thing to do, or making ewar effective against them, such as making webs and scrams affect all 5 drones if put on one of them or on the main ship (obviously this would have to be balanced properly, negating all 5 drones by kiting with 1 web could be devastating for some ships, but it would kind of mean the drone boat would have to get into brawl range to web their target themselves, I kind of see it as fair enough).
Anyway, just my 5c. Sad to see the hero Tristan getting a large nerf but largely leaving the more popular builds fairly untouched. |
Alxephon
Chinese Gold Farmers xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
0
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 04:14:15 -
[616] - Quote
How is it even possible to hit the Osprey Navy Issue and still miss the Caracal Navy Issue. It's worse than its T1 counterpart by a mile. The Exequror Navy issue is also still very underwhelming while the ONI and VNI come out leagues beyond other cruisers in their class for solo/small gang and the Augoror Navy Issue is clearly on top in regard to fleets.
I'm not saying they should all be exactly the same, but they should all have at least a decent engagement profile. |
Paladin Genghis Khanid
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
11
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 23:38:51 -
[617] - Quote
Dantelion Shinoni wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hi folks. Thanks for the feedback so far in this thread. After going over the discussion here, we agree that the Tristan is still a little too tanky, so we're adding a reduction in structure HP to its changes. We will of course continue monitoring feedback both before and after release. What about the comet? It completely overshadows the other navy frigs. Take away some of its dronebay/bandwidth at least.[...] Sure structure tanking tristans are annoying, but managable. Comets are just outright OP. they have almost the same base structure/armor/shield as a destroyer and drones w/ replacements.. It's the Gallente poster boy in FW, so you won't see it get nerfed ever :^) Seriously though, the problem is not stricture tanking on Tristans, it's that them being pure drone boats frees a lot of fitting space they can abuse. Doing some micro-nerfs is useless, and at worst smells of wanting to fake a proper balancing of it. Address the fitting space as a Drone boat of the Tristan or just admit you want the ship to stay oppressive. (Approximately) Same thing for the Comet.
CCP has a clear Gallente bias. Even the rookie ship is objectively better than all the rest. They leave no stone unturned in their quest to make the "progressive liberals" dominate :) |
Ray P
State Protectorate Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 23:46:11 -
[618] - Quote
Paladin Genghis Khanid wrote:Dantelion Shinoni wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hi folks. Thanks for the feedback so far in this thread. After going over the discussion here, we agree that the Tristan is still a little too tanky, so we're adding a reduction in structure HP to its changes. We will of course continue monitoring feedback both before and after release. What about the comet? It completely overshadows the other navy frigs. Take away some of its dronebay/bandwidth at least.[...] Sure structure tanking tristans are annoying, but managable. Comets are just outright OP. they have almost the same base structure/armor/shield as a destroyer and drones w/ replacements.. It's the Gallente poster boy in FW, so you won't see it get nerfed ever :^) Seriously though, the problem is not stricture tanking on Tristans, it's that them being pure drone boats frees a lot of fitting space they can abuse. Doing some micro-nerfs is useless, and at worst smells of wanting to fake a proper balancing of it. Address the fitting space as a Drone boat of the Tristan or just admit you want the ship to stay oppressive. (Approximately) Same thing for the Comet. CCP has a clear Gallente bias. Even the rookie ship is objectively better than all the rest. They leave no stone unturned in their quest to make the "progressive liberals" dominate :)
Galluminati confirmed |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2583
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 11:21:36 -
[619] - Quote
What can the new punisher do that a slicer doesn't just do better? 4 effective turrets for the cost of 2? Slicer does more damage. Tanking? Slicer's natural navy stats and better fitting let it tank better.
The new punisher can certainly compete with these changes; it won't be the worst frigate in the game anymore. But the chosen changes don't really let it fill any role that is not done better by something else, excepting as a cheap slicer alternative for newbies or zerging.
The missile idea was promoted because it would have given the punisher a unique role to fill in the amarr t1 frigate lineup. Tiercide was done to add unique roles and eliminate tiered ship line ups, yet the changes here are just enforcing the punisher's place as 'the ship you use only until you can use something better'.
For whosoever shall lay his life down for his Lord
He shall be taken into the arms of God
And forever consecrated will he be.
-Amarr-Askura 2:3
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
1948
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 11:43:15 -
[620] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:Lan Wang wrote:
5 drones not 9
Blow up drones, profit.
have you actually tried to blow up 9 drones without dying?
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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elitatwo
Eve Minions The-Company
924
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 13:27:01 -
[621] - Quote
Alxephon wrote:How is it even possible to hit the Osprey Navy Issue and still miss the Caracal Navy Issue. It's worse than its T1 counterpart by a mile. The Exequror Navy issue is also still very underwhelming while the ONI and VNI come out leagues beyond other cruisers in their class for solo/small gang and the Augoror Navy Issue is clearly on top in regard to fleets.
I'm not saying they should all be exactly the same, but they should all have at least a decent engagement profile.
I am sorry but what? I think you are confusing a logistic boat with an attack boat. The Navy Exequror is a fine ship and can crazy stuff. If the kids in lowsec weren't so hellbend of fitting all of their ships wrong you may notice that.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
|
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
665
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Posted - 2015.11.30 15:11:36 -
[622] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Alxephon wrote:How is it even possible to hit the Osprey Navy Issue and still miss the Caracal Navy Issue. It's worse than its T1 counterpart by a mile. The Exequror Navy issue is also still very underwhelming while the ONI and VNI come out leagues beyond other cruisers in their class for solo/small gang and the Augoror Navy Issue is clearly on top in regard to fleets.
I'm not saying they should all be exactly the same, but they should all have at least a decent engagement profile. I am sorry but what? I think you are confusing a logistic boat with an attack boat. The Navy Exequror is a fine ship and can crazy stuff. If the kids in lowsec weren't so hellbend of fitting all of their ships wrong you may notice that.
I agree with both of you. The navy exeq is viable, but is more skill intensive than say an ONI. Cap and fitting are a bit restrictive, but almost all the navy cruisers suffer from this.
That being said, the navy caracal is utterly useless and the navy drake does everything it does, but better.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
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Shalashaska Adam
Partial Safety
112
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Posted - 2015.11.30 15:30:09 -
[623] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:What can the new punisher do that a slicer doesn't just do better?
Buffer tank 22995 ehp?
Quote:Slicer's natural navy stats and better fitting let it tank better.
Punisher has stronger resists and enormously superior fitting resources.
Quote:The chosen changes don't really let it fill any role that is not done better by something else.
Small gang heavy tackle. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2583
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 21:54:35 -
[624] - Quote
Shalashaska Adam wrote:Buffer tank 22995 ehp?
...
Punisher has stronger resists and enormously superior fitting resources.
Only if it sacrifices the guns. Otherwise, the two-gun layout for the slicer gives it more fitting to work with in practice.
But okay, I'll give you sheer buffer heavy tackle, if we completely ignore guns. Full buffer, it gets 3k more EHP than the slicer while being cheaper to lose.
But that's still a niche use, and not one I see most of my fleets using. I was just hoping for a punisher that could fill more general fleet use.
For whosoever shall lay his life down for his Lord
He shall be taken into the arms of God
And forever consecrated will he be.
-Amarr-Askura 2:3
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Shalashaska Adam
Partial Safety
112
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Posted - 2015.11.30 22:58:07 -
[625] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:Only if it sacrifices the guns. Otherwise, the two-gun layout for the slicer gives it more fitting to work with in practice.
It has 18.75 more cpu, which may very well only serve to offset the guns.
But the huge 21.25 of additonal pwg, plus the 20% resist bonus, makes its ability to buffer tank far in excess of the slicer.
Quote:Full buffer, it gets 3k more EHP than the slicer while being cheaper to lose.
I would be interested to see your fit for a 20000 ehp slicer, without implants or links, only squad boost.
As far as I can see, it runs out of powergrid just trying to fit 2 plates and an afterburner.
Punisher attains 22995 ehp with the following:
2x 400mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates 1x 200mm Steel Plates II 2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1x 1MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner 1x J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I 4x 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II 3x Small Trimark Armor Pump I
Even though the role requires no guns, it still has a little fitting left over for a respectable 112 dps.
For a total cost of 6 mil. |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
536
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 23:16:00 -
[626] - Quote
fozzie if your not gonna give the amarr a 2nd weapon systemin their frigates, you need to hot fix all the other races to be forced to have only 1 weapon system for all frigates.
minmatar projectiles caldari missiles gallente hybrids
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
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Poranius Fisc
State War Academy Caldari State
24
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Posted - 2015.12.01 00:14:08 -
[627] - Quote
Ransu Asanari wrote:
For the Punisher, while Amarr don't have a direct missile progression path, there are a lot of T1 ships that use missiles as their secondary weapon - especially the EWAR type Arbitrator, Dragoon, Prophecy, and Armageddon. Gila and Worm nerfs are needed, no question. The change will probably break a lot of PVE setups for the Gila however, especially in W-Space. Will probably have to try on the test server to see how much of a difference it makes. Orthrus nerf is reasonable, and I think incremental is the way to go considering these are Pirate Faction ships. [/list] You've got it wrong. The amarr missile boats exist for caldari/minmatar pilots to get into armor fleets.
Amarr primary weapons are Lasers/drones and a distant third being Missiles. |
Paladin Genghis Khanid
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
14
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Posted - 2015.12.01 01:48:44 -
[628] - Quote
Flyinghotpocket wrote:fozzie if your not gonna give the amarr a 2nd weapon systemin their frigates, you need to hot fix all the other races to be forced to have only 1 weapon system for all frigates.
minmatar projectiles caldari missiles gallente hybrids
No, because Amarr are the "bad guys" and must be mistreated at every step of development. As the so-called good guys the Gallente "Federation" (is it really a federation when former member had to fight a war gain sovereignty) is entitled to the best of everything and will probably get missiles frigs soon enough. It's not enough that they have a better armor tanking bonuses than Amarr while being able to use both shield and armor tank. |
Sven Viko VIkolander
Friends and Feminists
362
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Posted - 2015.12.01 03:00:07 -
[629] - Quote
First and foremost, no svipul nerfs? The base speed on the ship is far too high. Over the past 6 months it has remained the #1 used ship for "pvp" by almost 100% (above the Saber and well above the next T3D by almost 200% most months). Something's seriously wrong in your metrics with respect to how you measure balance if you have not seen the svipul is in a terrible place.
On to the ship specifics:
1) The breacher change is nice, but it is already one of the strongest T1 solo boats. And probably my favorite. I'm not sure it really needs the speed, but it won't hurt anything.
2) The Tristan nerf to the speed is about the only nerf it really needs. The nerf to hull does not affect kiting Tirstans much, because, generally, if you get a kiting Tristian into low hull you've probably already won. But, it won't ruin the ship, anyhow.
3) The punisher....The ship is probably fine as it is, on the assumption that not every t1 frigate needs to be viable for solo pvp and it currently has ample fitting room and tank. There is a current, viable but niche solo fit that involves flying it like a fat slicer. Adding power, cpu, a low slot, a turret, and a cap reduction on the is going to make this fit pretty strong, even with the 5% damage bonus removed. It probably won't be OP or overused, though, but you could just take the simple road and switch the ship to a 3rd mid...
4) Firetail and hookbill and Nosprey... thank you!! <3 However, rapid lights need a nerf, and the last thing the game really needs is yet another RLML boat with interceptor speeds. Just saying.
5) Orthrus.... Way to completely miss the point of why this ship is in a terrible place. It can still remove most t1 crusiers off the field before reload (again, a problem with RLML in general), in addition to being nearly as strong as some comparable AT ships in speed and tank, in addition to having a broken point/scram range. My solution would be to remove the bonus to scram distance, just keeping the bonus to point distance. This will let it remain a strong kiting ship while also making it actually somewhat engageable. |
Paladin Genghis Khanid
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
15
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Posted - 2015.12.01 06:59:48 -
[630] - Quote
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:The punisher....The ship is probably fine as it is, on the assumption that not every t1 frigate needs to be viable for solo pvp
Jog my memory. What are the other T1 frigates that aren't viable for solo PvP? |
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