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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
twit brent
Black Anvil Industries SpaceMonkey's Alliance
45
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Posted - 2015.10.16 20:27:08 -
[91] - Quote
So disheartened by sacrilege. I thought it was going to finally get its slot layout fixed :( |
Zappity
Black Aces I N F A M O U S
2496
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Posted - 2015.10.16 20:38:34 -
[92] - Quote
Thank you for the Worm, Gila and Orthrus nerfs as well as the cool explanations in italics of your thinking regarding each ship. Very good!
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Torei Dutalis
IceBox Inc.
36
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Posted - 2015.10.16 20:39:21 -
[93] - Quote
With this proposed change the punisher will have more powergrid than the confessor, just putting that out there. |
Merrowing Kion
The Reborn The Gorgon Empire
3
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Posted - 2015.10.16 20:39:41 -
[94] - Quote
You forget about Munin. After boost of Hurricane Navy, Munin looked like poor relative behinde it. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2101
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 20:40:29 -
[95] - Quote
Quote:Quality of life bonus for roaming Sacs
so we talking boxers or briefs?
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
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Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
503
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Posted - 2015.10.16 20:41:07 -
[96] - Quote
So your just gonna go away from the entire amarr are the capacitor warfare race utility highs lots of capacitor and just say F it, t1 amarrian frigates dont need utility highers F it. lets give all the utility highs to the race that doesnt need them. the gallente AND the minmatar.
When the hell does more drones on the sac equal 'khanid trends.' Khanids niche is MISSILES not drones. fix the damn sac! its supposed to excell with hams, and you still haven't FIXED HAMS since they were released and EVEN your own people admitted to a TYPO on the data sheets.
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
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sten mattson
Virtus Crusade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
89
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Posted - 2015.10.16 20:44:35 -
[97] - Quote
Quote:Punisher:
Let's talk about the Punisher. Quite a few people have asked about missile Punishers, but we currently aren't huge fans of dropping a missile T1 frigate into Amarr's stable without having solid support all along the T1 lineup for a missile-focused skillplan. With only Khanid T2 ships (and unbonused launchers on the droneships) further along the path, we feel this would act as a confusing set of breadcrumbs for a new player to follow. We also think that the "laser tank and gank" archetype deserves to be represented in Amarrian T1 frigates, especially to provide a less skill-intensive alternative to the Tormentor. We don't expect it to become a dominant solo powerhouse for veterans, but it will continue to be extremely good as a newer player PVE boat and to strengthen its (quite niche) existing role in T1 frigate gangs. The two midslot layout definitely hurts the ship's power and flexibility, but that can be an interesting tradeoff if compensated for in other ways. These changes give the Punisher one more slot than most T1 frigs, and increase damage slightly (4 effective turrets instead of 3.75) while reducing weapon cap use and adding the significant buff of an extra lowslot. In exchange it loses its utility high.
+1 Turret
+1 Lowslot
+10 PWG
+13 CPU
Replace the 5% damage bonus with -10% laser cap use per level
I am not sure how i feel about that, removing utility high but paving the way for either more tank or an extra tracking computer. But now you go back to the old punisher where you would do more damage with other types of guns than lazors. This may be the return of the autocannon punisher maybe? This definetly is a straight buff to hte support rep/neuting/bait punisher.
Come to think of it, this is straight up loss of utility. you loose the utility high and you gain a lowslot. But to be completely honest, there is no such thing as a utility low. Look at the retribution, it has the same slots now except it has better bonuses (tracking!!!) and a utility high slot, but you dont see those flying around every day either now, do you? What the punisher needed was not damage (although it does always help), it was application/utility and you dont get that with additional lowslots, no matter how many you put in there.
This change just switched the current punisher into a faster, squishier, less dangerous retribution. What the punisher absolutely needs is a third midslot, but it needs to keep the utility high! A more sensible thing would have been to give it the harb treatment: remove a turret and buff the damage bonus accordingly, and then move a highslot to a mid (or keep the 2 highslots since dual neuts could be interesting)
Quote:Tormentor:
Another ship that's in a pretty decent place but that tends to be overlooked, so we're adding this nice quality of life improvement that also fits the general Amarrian theme of having plenty of backup drones.
+10m3 Dronebay
this is a good change considering i can never decide what kind of drones to take with me on a roam, damage or ecm? :P On the other hand, how can it be overlooked? The tormentor is the single most used amarr t1 frigate out there
IMMA FIRING MA LAZAR!!!
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Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
28
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Posted - 2015.10.16 20:46:50 -
[98] - Quote
Alexis Nightwish wrote:Another failed opportunity to put a drone cruiser in the right place.
Worm: 300% bonus to Light Combat Drone damage and hitpoints
Rattle: 275% bonus to Sentry Drone and Heavy Drone damage and hitpoints
Gila: 500% bonus to Medium Combat Drone damage and hitpoints
The only thing you have to do to the Gila is change the broken as **** 500% bonus to 300%. That's it! So easy!
Maybe, I think it's to much how about 400% and go from there? |
Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
28
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Posted - 2015.10.16 20:49:07 -
[99] - Quote
sten mattson wrote:Quote:Punisher:
Let's talk about the Punisher. Quite a few people have asked about missile Punishers, but we currently aren't huge fans of dropping a missile T1 frigate into Amarr's stable without having solid support all along the T1 lineup for a missile-focused skillplan. With only Khanid T2 ships (and unbonused launchers on the droneships) further along the path, we feel this would act as a confusing set of breadcrumbs for a new player to follow. We also think that the "laser tank and gank" archetype deserves to be represented in Amarrian T1 frigates, especially to provide a less skill-intensive alternative to the Tormentor. We don't expect it to become a dominant solo powerhouse for veterans, but it will continue to be extremely good as a newer player PVE boat and to strengthen its (quite niche) existing role in T1 frigate gangs. The two midslot layout definitely hurts the ship's power and flexibility, but that can be an interesting tradeoff if compensated for in other ways. These changes give the Punisher one more slot than most T1 frigs, and increase damage slightly (4 effective turrets instead of 3.75) while reducing weapon cap use and adding the significant buff of an extra lowslot. In exchange it loses its utility high.
+1 Turret
+1 Lowslot
+10 PWG
+13 CPU
Replace the 5% damage bonus with -10% laser cap use per level I am not sure how i feel about that, removing utility high but paving the way for either more tank or an extra tracking computer. But now you go back to the old punisher where you would do more damage with other types of guns than lazors. This may be the return of the autocannon punisher maybe? This definetly is a straight buff to hte support rep/neuting/bait punisher. Come to think of it, this is straight up loss of utility. you loose the utility high and you gain a lowslot. But to be completely honest, there is no such thing as a utility low. Look at the retribution, it has the same slots now except it has better bonuses (tracking!!!) and a utility high slot, but you dont see those flying around every day either now, do you? What the punisher needed was not damage (although it does always help), it was application/utility and you dont get that with additional lowslots, no matter how many you put in there. This change just switched the current punisher into a faster, squishier, less dangerous retribution. What the punisher absolutely needs is a third midslot, but it needs to keep the utility high! A more sensible thing would have been to give it the harb treatment: remove a turret and buff the damage bonus accordingly, and then move a highslot to a mid (or keep the 2 highslots since dual neuts could be interesting) Quote:Tormentor:
Another ship that's in a pretty decent place but that tends to be overlooked, so we're adding this nice quality of life improvement that also fits the general Amarrian theme of having plenty of backup drones.
+10m3 Dronebay this is a good change considering i can never decide what kind of drones to take with me on a roam, damage or ecm? :P On the other hand, how can it be overlooked? The tormentor is the single most used amarr t1 frigate out there
Tormentors is perfectly fine Fozzie, I don't think it needed any tweaks tbh. |
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
291
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 20:50:22 -
[100] - Quote
Mr Spaxi wrote:Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:
Punisher: Let's talk about the Punisher. Quite a few people have asked about missile Punishers, but we currently aren't huge fans of dropping a missile T1 frigate into Amarr's stable without having solid support all along the T1 lineup for a missile-focused skillplan. With only Khanid T2 ships (and unbonused launchers on the droneships) further along the path, we feel this would act as a confusing set of breadcrumbs for a new player to follow. We also think that the "laser tank and gank" archetype deserves to be represented in Amarrian T1 frigates, especially to provide a less skill-intensive alternative to the Tormentor. We don't expect it to become a dominant solo powerhouse for veterans, but it will continue to be extremely good as a newer player PVE boat and to strengthen its (quite niche) existing role in T1 frigate gangs. The two midslot layout definitely hurts the ship's power and flexibility, but that can be an interesting tradeoff if compensated for in other ways. These changes give the Punisher one more slot than most T1 frigs, and increase damage slightly (4 effective turrets instead of 3.75) while reducing weapon cap use and adding the significant buff of an extra lowslot. In exchange it loses its utility high.
+1 Turret +1 Lowslot +10 PWG +13 CPU Replace the 5% damage bonus with -10% laser cap use per level
What? this is the opposite of what everyone wanted. The punisher is slow as crap, unagile and cannot web anything. Because it can't web it can't keep up even with merlins purely because of WEBS. 2 mid slots is abhorrent. The punisher needs the webifier to compete with the other brawlers. giving it a 5th lowslot doesn't do anything but allow me to fit some non-utility mod like a nanofiber or overdrive. The 10% cap usage bonus again? its a crutch bonus because lasers just gobble cap meanwhile you now have 3 frigates with the SAME cap usage bonus and no other 2nd combat bonus like every other ship in the game gets. Unsurprisingly the Tormentor and Executioner have the SAME ship bonuses, the only two ships in the game to have such an unoriginal set up. Not every ship is designed to be used solo, and Punisher is not a solo frigate unless you fit it in a very gimped way. However, -1mid ships (like the Punisher) have a very strong use elsewhere, and this change of slots is going to help it. However, I agree that keeping the damage bonus, -1 high, +1 low is the way to go.
Midslots are king in frigate combat. A midslot gimped ship should excel at something, and the punisher doesn't. All it's got is tank, and in this game that IS NOT A ROLE. In a frigate fleet all that tank does for the punisher is make sure it's a low priority target. The enemy isn't going to shoot at punishers first, they're going to go for logi/dps/ewar before they shoot at the brick.
A brick that can't bring a web, or ewar. Inflexible tank, can't shield tank like a lot of other ships because of a lack of mids and a then-useless bonus. Can't active tank.
If it's going to be a one-trick pony, at least give it a good trick.
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Ares Desideratus
Minmatar Brotherhood Ushra'Khan
279
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Posted - 2015.10.16 21:05:45 -
[101] - Quote
The Breacher, Tormentor, Rifter and Slasher buffs are all nice. Tristan nerf is good without hurting it too much.
The Punisher change, is not very good. It's not that bad, but if you think about it, the Punisher now has no way to reliably active tank, at least before it could use a Nos / Rep combo, now if you try to active tank it you are at extreme risk of cap problems, and more of a risk of cap warfare. You could fit a cap booster if you forgo prop / point, but that's bad and shouldn't really be taken into consideration for how the ship is balanced. The best way to fly it now will be as a pure buffer fit, so all you've really done is buff it's role as a bait tank but you've damaged it's legitimate combat ability by nerfing the utility high slot. That utility high slot was the only thing that made it stand out among the combat frigates, the ability to field a nos combined with such a high tank and AB sig tank gave it a decent niche role in heavy tackle which is now gone.
Firetail and Hookbill buffs both look good.
Osprey Navy Issue looks wonderful.
Not sure how much the Worm will suffer from this missing low slot. Losing a nano or a DDA is pretty significant. It should probably be fine though. |
Glathull
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1182
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 21:07:13 -
[102] - Quote
I'm loving the punisher these days. This is going to make it just that much better. You can make 2 mids work, if you're creative. Ignore the complainers, Fozzie. Punisher changes are spot on.
I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
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Floyd1 Azizora
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.10.16 21:11:12 -
[103] - Quote
Why cant the punisher follow the amarr progression and become a drone boat instead? |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1220
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 21:15:17 -
[104] - Quote
Floyd1 Azizora wrote:Why cant the punisher follow the amarr progression and become a drone boat instead?
like we want more droneboats.... also tormentor has some drones anyway
T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely.
ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats
Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
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Doyle Aldurad
Stellar Winds Consortium
13
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 21:16:06 -
[105] - Quote
SORRY to be the bearer of ill tidings but this:
[color="YELLOW"]Worm and Gila: Two of the most dominant ships in their classes, we're going to tone them down a bit by bringing their slot numbers in line with most other drone ships. These represent fairly significant nerfs but we feel the ships remain among the strongest in their classes. Currently we have decided to leave the Rattlesnake alone, partially as it's not as dominant in its class as the smaller ships. However we won't rule out future changes. Worm: -1 Lowslot, -20 CPU Gila: -1 Lowslot, -20 CPU [/color]
But this is garbage in regards to the Gila -- which like EVERY other Pirate cruiser has 15 slots allocated by racial preference. |
Yuikko
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 21:31:39 -
[106] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: Currently we have decided to leave the Rattlesnake alone, partially as it's not as dominant in its class as the smaller ships.
Does this mean I should wait before training the rattle route? its a pretty cool ship for newbies like me but I dont want to focus in it and then have it nerfed like it happened with the drake (focused in it for a long time and got nerfed). |
Wendrika Hydreiga
524
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 21:38:07 -
[107] - Quote
CCP Fozzie what are you doing?! Leave my beautiful Guristas ships alone! Nooooo! Stooooop!
I'm so sad right now that the only thing that would make me feel better would be Guristas SKINS to every Caldari ship. Starting with the Kestrel! And none of that 30 day license stuff please! Thank you CCP Fozzie, you rock!
I hope the guilt of gutting my beloved Guristas ships will make you consider this little thing. |
Leisha Miranen
The Alabaster Albatross Sev3rance
14
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Posted - 2015.10.16 21:39:37 -
[108] - Quote
Mmmm everyone loves these pirate faction ships. Better fix that.
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Glathull
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1182
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 21:51:40 -
[109] - Quote
Yuikko wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: Currently we have decided to leave the Rattlesnake alone, partially as it's not as dominant in its class as the smaller ships.
Does this mean I should wait before training the rattle route? its a pretty cool ship for newbies like me but I dont want to focus in it and then have it nerfed like it happened with the drake (focused in it for a long time and got nerfed).
There's only one guarantee in this game: eventually, everything gets nerfed. If you like a ship, fly it now while it's worth it and don't look back when it's not. I can't think of any ship skill that only applicable to one single ship. Your training time won't be wasted.
I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
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Tennebrae Umbrascen
Repercussus Goonswarm Federation
19
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Posted - 2015.10.16 22:49:12 -
[110] - Quote
I'm curious why you went with just drone capacity for the Sacrilege. I've often viewed it as the armor/brawler counterpart to the Cerberus. The Cerb gets range and speed while the Sac gets tank and sig. Both ships have the same level of damage bonus (Caldari kinetic-specific being the only exception) in their 5% to RoF and 5% to damage, but the Cerberus wins out with 6 launchers while the Sacrilege only has 5, which leaves the Sacrilege with pretty bad dps in most situations. Being down a launcher already, it also has the disadvantage of not getting to use many lows for BCUs like the Cerb can. Has this variance been considered, and is it possible we'll see more Sacrilege balancing in future passes? |
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Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
332
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Posted - 2015.10.16 22:49:14 -
[111] - Quote
Navy Osprey deserved attention for a long time.
Garmur deserves a different kind of attention.
Worm didn't deserve the attention it got. |
NarielSanos
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 22:54:58 -
[112] - Quote
This is a huge and unfortunate blow to the Gila's ability. It was a great ship that was easy for beginners to skill into without a long train. I don't see being able to do C3s with it now. I'd have rather had the role bonus nerfed or see something done about the high slots, but a flat loss of the low without any corresponding buff at all is bulls**t. At least give us some tank back to make up for the low.
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Aquinas II
PostgreSQL
5
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Posted - 2015.10.16 23:06:21 -
[113] - Quote
IGÇÖm also not a fan of the Punisher changes. My preference would be to have the Punisher fill the role of the T1 version of the Vengance. The Vengance is a neat ship, and having a stepping-stone into the T2 AF seems like a reasonable path. Also, as others have said, there are plenty of T1 missile ships in the Amarr lineup, itGÇÖs almost MORE confusing to not have any T1 frigates representing that path in the Amarr lineup. |
Suitonia
True Solo
659
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 23:23:43 -
[114] - Quote
Shp3 wrote:so about that orthrus...
current dps with 2 BCU: 525 after that: 393,75
cant even fight a caracal in it anymore.. gg ccp cap was way too bad and the ship was way too squishy already to be OP... and the Worm & Gila nerf im not even starting about
RIP the last 2 useful Pirate faction cruisers
You might have been flying the Orthrus for far too long, it seems to have affected your calculations.
the Orthrus is going from a 20% per level bonus (5 * 2 = 10) Effective Launchers to 15% per level bonus (5 * 1.75 = 8.75) Effective Launchers This is a 12.5% DPS loss for the Orthrus from Missile Launchers.
Using your 525 figure (Which is way lower than what most Orthrus' can achieve) You would be going from 525 to 459 DPS.
If drones are included in that figure then the nerf is even less than that.
Contributer to Eve is Easy:
https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos
Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
952
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Posted - 2015.10.16 23:26:11 -
[115] - Quote
DAMNIT!!
Right when I go to join in on the GIla bandwagon...
Glad I didn't waist SP on it... Wait...
BTW, what ever happened to the Gila and Rattlesnake having Uber passive shield tank capability? |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1489
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 23:42:40 -
[116] - Quote
Worm nerf sucks.
The Tears Must Flow
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Elisk Skyforge
Night Raven Task Force
80
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Posted - 2015.10.16 23:52:33 -
[117] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=494dUevcqJM
CCP please nerf these people they are OP. |
Ben Kilmore
Sky Fighters
2
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Posted - 2015.10.17 00:14:47 -
[118] - Quote
I am a fan of most of the planned updates, but expect Orthrus to get nerfed harder later unless more people end up using the missile disrupt module than I expect. Tracking disruptors don't get utilized too commonly currently, and that module affects 3 weapon systems already.
I like the T3 destroyers a lot, but that does put assault frigs in a weird spot in the current meta... not really sure how to fix it thou unless you somehow made assault frigs less able to be affected by rapid lights or something.
I'd like to see Phantasm get a bit of help too.
So far so good on most of the planned updates thou. Needed! :)
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Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
791
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 00:38:41 -
[119] - Quote
MINMATAR The Breacher is a-okay, so a minor change is fine.
What isn't fine are the changes to the Slasher & Rifter. Outside of niche tackle, crappy brawl attempts, & td nonsense, the Rifter & Slasher are pretty **** combat frigates. Trying to push people into using artillery on ships that have anemic damage output is hilariously backwards. IMO an bonus low slot would be far better spent on the Rifter than that horribly misguided Punisher attempt. Trying to have a *kiting* Rifter with 280s is a joke as well when the thing doesn't even have a tracking bonus. Enjoy that 0.08 tracking :lol:
Similarly, the Firetail changes are next to meaningless. There has never been a point where I thought a Firetail needed more tracking. Damage or CPU is what it needs, not some half-ass attempt to get people to LR kite with a ship that doesn't have any range bonus whatsoever. Successful frig kiting setups relied on ewar abuse (TDs), not that extra little bit of tracking.
GALLENTE Tristan goes a little slower, woo. Gallente continue to have the best frig lineup in the game. None of it is really broken, so good to leave it alone.
AMARR This is a joke, right? LETS BOOST THE TORMENTOR SOME MORE, FORGET THAT PUNISHER HERITAGE. You devs really are taking the ****.
Quote:We currently aren't huge fans of dropping a missile T1 frigate into Amarr's stable without having solid support all along the T1 lineup for a missile-focused skillplan. With only Khanid T2 ships (and unbonused launchers on the droneships) further along the path, we feel this would act as a confusing set of breadcrumbs for a new player to follow. We also think that the "laser tank and gank" archetype deserves to be represented in Amarrian T1 frigates, especially to provide a less skill-intensive alternative to the Tormentor. Seriously, what? Isn't the whole point of skill progression to prepare players to fly the Tech2 counterparts? Only the drone ships have unbonused launchers. Laser ganking needs to be represented, sure, but it's like you haven't seen the bloody Tormentor doing exactly that. And naturally the Tormentor needed more drones just because
Speaking of the Punisher - WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING? Decreasing the cap usage, sure. Adding a low slot, fine I can get on board. But REMOVING THE UTILITY HIGH THAT KEEPS THE SHIP REMOTELY COMPETITIVE?
What is that crap? I don't care who you are, but a laser ship with two mids & no tracking bonus whatsoever is awful. The ship has got awful damage output, awful fitting options, awful damage application, awful speed, and now you are essentially forcing it to a buffer-tank setup unless the pilot ignores any pvp mids whatsoever and fits an injector instead.
The Tormentor is so much better because it's versatile. 3 mids mean a lot, and 2 drones mean even more. Hell, even the Executioner can be seen as a better ship because it's got 3 mids and it's not a bloody brick.
To top it off the Amarr joke, you add a bigger drone bay to the Sacrilege. Okay, but WHY? Amarr has their drone ships, and they are both effective EWAR ships with bonuses to drones.
Fix the Zealot, smart guys. It's a free kill for any self-respecting frigate pilot because the damn things can't HIT anything. Who cares how much HP your Zealot has when the NOmen outperforms it in every other facet. Bump the Zealots damage bonus, drop a low, add a mid and give at least 15m3 of drone bandwidth to the thing.
CALDARI The fixed kinetic bonus is archaic, so the rocket damage changes for the Hookbill are welcome.
The NOsprey changes aren't welcome without RLML changes. This effectively makes the NOsprey another cheap Orthrus, outperforming both the NCaralol & ScyFI in that field. Before implants/rigs/drones, but overloaded, 3x BCU setups will reach just shy of 500dps w/ Rage. Because everyone really wanted another high damage, 2.5k/s missile spewer
GURISTAS Both changes are good, it's about time.
CANCER Easily one of the most overpowered ship in the game, and you drop its damage bonus by 25% overall. Orthrus needs a bigger nerf, sorry. Reduce the grid slightly, nuke the agility, and then lets see how things work out Is it's damage too much? For sure. But lowering the output doesn't change the fact that it's idiot proof and outperforms everything beyond a linked gank-boat.
https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage
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BirdStrike
State War Academy Caldari State
69
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Posted - 2015.10.17 01:09:35 -
[120] - Quote
Meh.
Time to break out the Gila and enjoy her while she lasts. |
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