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Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 23:36:11 -
[1] - Quote
Perhaps someone has thought of these before... So what, it needs more attention.
SO, some e-war/combat recon cruisers have the ability to maneuver with out detection, which I'll admit, at first I thought was dumb, but now it actually seems like a good idea to me. So I got to thinking, why restrict this abilty to only that class or ships?
Sure it's their purpose, they should have that kind of equipment built in naturely as part of their main hardware, but not be the only ones. I just got to thinking why not have modules designed to have a similar effect?
I decided to list what I think the ideal basic attributes for such equipment should be below: - Active high slot module. - Adding more than one to a craft has no additional effectiveness. - Module will only affect the fitted ship. - Module will shield fitted ship from any kind of probing equipment or directional scanners. - Requires specific skill book/training to use. - Module will not inhibite use of other modules (Unlike cloaking devices, other modules can be active simultaneously) - Scatch the above, other modules can be active simultaneously, though maybe not the "covert" T2 version.
Possible side effects options - Use of module would result in negative effects, such as: - High activation cost. - Higher signature radius. - Reduction in targeting range or targeting resolution.
Training - Skill levels could: - Reduce activation cost. - Reduce signature radius penalty. - Reduce effects on targeting range or resolution. - Reduce activation duration.
Lastly, perhaps these devices should be restricted only to certain E-war vessels, though I'm not settled on that idea.
TELL ME YOU'RE THOUGHTS, TALK IT UP IF YOU THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA!! |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3924
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 23:47:05 -
[2] - Quote
No, you cannot have a cloaking device with no drawbacks at all. |
James Cestar
Market Cogs LLC
4
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 23:52:48 -
[3] - Quote
While I would love to be able to use this, it is too OP too not be dscaned or probed at the same time as using other modules. The idea is already used seperately in the two types for recon ships
You might want to drop this one as it stands for these two points:
- Module will shield fitted ship from any kind of probing equipment or directional scanners - Scatch the above, other modules can be active simultaneously, though maybe not the "covert" T2 version
Thank you for being a thinker! Keep dreaming up ideas. |
Justin Cody
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
315
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 00:00:35 -
[4] - Quote
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:Perhaps someone has thought of these before... So what, it needs more attention.
SO, some e-war/combat recon cruisers have the ability to maneuver with out detection, which I'll admit, at first I thought was dumb, but now it actually seems like a good idea to me. So I got to thinking, why restrict this abilty to only that class or ships?
Sure it's their purpose, they should have that kind of equipment built in naturely as part of their main hardware, but not be the only ones. I just got to thinking why not have modules designed to have a similar effect?
I decided to list what I think the ideal basic attributes for such equipment should be below: - Active high slot module. - Adding more than one to a craft has no additional effectiveness. - Module will only affect the fitted ship. - Module will shield fitted ship from any kind of probing equipment or directional scanners. - Requires specific skill book/training to use. - Module will not inhibite use of other modules (Unlike cloaking devices, other modules can be active simultaneously) - Scatch the above, other modules can be active simultaneously, though maybe not the "covert" T2 version.
Possible side effects options - Use of module would result in negative effects, such as: - High activation cost. - Higher signature radius. - Reduction in targeting range or targeting resolution.
Training - Skill levels could: - Reduce activation cost. - Reduce signature radius penalty. - Reduce effects on targeting range or resolution. - Reduce activation duration.
Lastly, perhaps these devices should be restricted only to certain E-war vessels, though I'm not settled on that idea.
TELL ME YOU'RE THOUGHTS, TALK IT UP IF YOU THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA!!
Bad idea - join a real corp or at least post with your main you giant krab.
|
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 00:03:48 -
[5] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:No, you cannot have a cloaking device with no drawbacks at all.
It's not a cloaking device if you're in grid. You can still be targetted. |
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 00:05:58 -
[6] - Quote
If you're that worried then make it probable, but not d-scannable |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3925
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 00:11:20 -
[7] - Quote
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:Danika Princip wrote:No, you cannot have a cloaking device with no drawbacks at all. It's not a cloaking device if you're in grid. You can still be targetted.
So it's 90% of a cloaking device with 0% of the drawbacks then.
No, you can't have it. |
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 01:09:47 -
[8] - Quote
All I see so far are big alliance people that are probably "so scared" of something that could ruin their perfect little slice of Eden.
I love it when people throw the OP card out of fear.
Maybe it isn't such a good idea, but perhaps instead of throwing it out you guys should make recommendations on how to not OP it and still make it viable. |
Amber Starview
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 01:29:59 -
[9] - Quote
so something like a bastion module that made you immune to scanning and d/scan ,well this would have to have huge drawbacks like exploded sig radius and 60s immobility timer still OP tho i think ...
Your ideas are more welcomed when they are about killing more not less :)
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
321
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 16:47:47 -
[10] - Quote
Why? What need does this fill? |
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2340
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 18:30:08 -
[11] - Quote
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:All I see so far are big alliance people that are probably "so scared" of something that could ruin their perfect little slice of Eden.
I love it when people throw the OP card out of fear.
Maybe it isn't such a good idea, but perhaps instead of throwing it out you guys should make recommendations on how to not OP it and still make it viable.
I love it when people try to read into my corp/alliance tag and not realise that if anything is indeed OP, it will be abused to hell and back by those large organisation with the sheer manpower advantage and double down with the demonstrated organisation level. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3928
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 21:29:46 -
[12] - Quote
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote: instead of throwing it out you guys should make recommendations on how to not OP it and still make it viable.
You're asking for a cloaking device with no drawbacks. The way to make it non OP is to just use a regular cloaking device. |
Wolf Lafisques
Maraque Enterprises Just let it happen
5
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 22:53:02 -
[13] - Quote
Isn't this a redundant post? I'm quite sure that ideas for cloaking devices have been discussed about a million and one times, yet cloaks remain the same because they are (I believe the term is "working as intended"). Make no mistake, your idea IS a proposal for a new kind of cloaking device, whether you think so or not. The main benefit of any cloaking device is that it prevents the ship on which it is activated from being d-scanned or scan probed. Part of what balances cloaking devices is that they render your ship completely inoperable, with the exception of Covert Ops Cloaks which allow the ship to warp and use basic propulsion (NOT modified propulsion, i.e. Microwarp Drives and Afterburners) and can only be fitted to specific Covert Ops ships (which tend to have drawbacks of their own).
Your proposed module breaks that balance. A pilot could fit that module and...idk...go ratting or some sh*t. He could activate his nifty little cloaking device and kill rats while remaining undetectable to any type of long-range scanning. Furthermore, as a precaution against being randomly warped in on, the ratting pilot could align to a celestial and keep his eye on his OV. As soon as another ships appears on grid (bear in mind that ships appear on grid BEFORE they actually drop out of warp) the ratting pilot could simply warp away to his randomly selected celestial, then bounce to a safe, which I believe is a general good practice anyway depending on the situation, rendering himself completely untouchable until all non-friendly players leave the system.
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Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 11:26:02 -
[14] - Quote
I don't get why people are still saying this is a cloaking device with no draw backs.
IF YOU LAND ON GRID WITH THE SHIP ITS TARGETABLE!! YOU JUST CAN'T D-SCAN IT.
I even tried to comprise and say fine it can be combat probed down, but everyone still didn't get it. i gave it restrictions to only E-war or covert ops type vessels, everyone ignored that.
If it so OP then why aren't they massive blops of combat recon cruisers running around nul sec and wormholes destroying everything in sight, because I haven't heard about these massive coliltions using them. Maybe check local? Why can't I scan down that 200 man fleet, must be covert OPs!
OP, OP.. Whine Whine, troll, troll.
Best I my knowledge combat second aren't getting rebalance to remove the feature so CCP obviously doesn't share your concerns. You all aren't thinking logically about this.
And now ISDs please lock this. I'm tired of un-educated banter and fear mongering about a perfectly legit idea. |
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 11:30:59 -
[15] - Quote
Wolf Lafisques wrote:Isn't this a redundant post? I'm quite sure that ideas for cloaking devices have been discussed about a million and one times, yet cloaks remain the same because they are (I believe the term is "working as intended"). Make no mistake, your idea IS a proposal for a new kind of cloaking device, whether you think so or not. The main benefit of any cloaking device is that it prevents the ship on which it is activated from being d-scanned or scan probed. Part of what balances cloaking devices is that they render your ship completely inoperable, with the exception of Covert Ops Cloaks which allow the ship to warp and use basic propulsion (NOT modified propulsion, i.e. Microwarp Drives and Afterburners) and can only be fitted to specific Covert Ops ships (which tend to have drawbacks of their own). Your proposed module breaks that balance. A pilot could fit that module and...idk...go ratting or some sh*t. He could activate his nifty little cloaking device and kill rats while remaining undetectable to any type of long-range scanning. Furthermore, as a precaution against being randomly warped in on, the ratting pilot could align to a celestial and keep his eye on his OV. As soon as another ships appears on grid (bear in mind that ships appear on grid BEFORE they actually drop out of warp) the ratting pilot could simply warp away to his randomly selected celestial, then bounce to a safe, which I believe is a general good practice anyway depending on the situation, rendering himself completely untouchable until all non-friendly players leave the system.
That is reasonable, may I suggest once the ship is lock then it is scannable, or that like a cloak, and as I have said the options from my initial statement, if the "inhibitor" is active the ship can't use it's other modules. Except for maybe covert ops type versions.
- Module will not inhibite use of other modules (Unlike cloaking devices, other modules can be active simultaneously) - Scatch the above, other modules cant be active simultaneously, though maybe not the "covert" T2 version. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
590
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 13:50:51 -
[16] - Quote
Go ahead and check I am not a part of any alliance large or small and this is a terrible idea.
-1 because of how this could be applied to ganking miners, mission runners and ratters etc because this module would remove the ONLY tool you have to help keep you safe the D-Scan. Yes, yes I know your contention will be that they could still be seen in your overview the moment they land on grid and my response is that by time they are on grid it is to late in many cases to do anything about it.
-1 because low sec is already a waste land with little activity. Remove the ability for players to D-Scan what is around them and I would venture a guess that this will drive even more players out of low sec, again based on removing the one tool you have to gather data and make decisions about when it is time to GTFO, or call for reinforcements.
You contend that we should be helping to make this idea more balanced instead of just vetoing it outright, to that I would say how can you help to revive and idea that was dead on arrival in these forums.
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Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 13:57:44 -
[17] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Go ahead and check I am not a part of any alliance large or small and this is a terrible idea.
-1 because of how this could be applied to ganking miners, mission runners and ratters etc because this module would remove the ONLY tool you have to help keep you safe the D-Scan. Yes, yes I know your contention will be that they could still be seen in your overview the moment they land on grid and my response is that by time they are on grid it is to late in many cases to do anything about it.
-1 because low sec is already a waste land with little activity. Remove the ability for players to D-Scan what is around them and I would venture a guess that this will drive even more players out of low sec, again based on removing the one tool you have to gather data and make decisions about when it is time to GTFO, or call for reinforcements.
You contend that we should be helping to make this idea more balanced instead of just vetoing it outright, to that I would say how can you help to revive and idea that was dead on arrival in these forums.
Okay I revise the my initial statement.
- Module can not be active during warp.
That would solve that problem. That means one could only set traps. |
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 14:11:42 -
[18] - Quote
Please note all, changes to the module are now show above. Perhaps you all can be less fearful of it now. =ƒÿ¢ |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2342
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 14:49:21 -
[19] - Quote
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:Please note all, changes to the module are now show above. Perhaps you all can be less fearful of it now. =ƒÿ¢
Even after all these nerf to your idea, you still haven't provided an actual reason why the game needs that. You did have the time to GRRR goons tho... |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3929
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 16:10:47 -
[20] - Quote
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:Please note all, changes to the module are now show above. Perhaps you all can be less fearful of it now. =ƒÿ¢
Well, you turned it from a cloaking device with no drawbacks to...
a cloaking device. So the feature already exists. |
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Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
805
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 16:20:37 -
[21] - Quote
Justin Cody wrote:Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:Perhaps someone has thought of these before... So what, it needs more attention.
SO, some e-war/combat recon cruisers have the ability to maneuver with out detection, which I'll admit, at first I thought was dumb, but now it actually seems like a good idea to me. So I got to thinking, why restrict this abilty to only that class or ships?
Sure it's their purpose, they should have that kind of equipment built in naturely as part of their main hardware, but not be the only ones. I just got to thinking why not have modules designed to have a similar effect?
I decided to list what I think the ideal basic attributes for such equipment should be below: - Active high slot module. - Adding more than one to a craft has no additional effectiveness. - Module will only affect the fitted ship. - Module will shield fitted ship from any kind of probing equipment or directional scanners. - Requires specific skill book/training to use. - Module will not inhibite use of other modules (Unlike cloaking devices, other modules can be active simultaneously) - Scatch the above, other modules can be active simultaneously, though maybe not the "covert" T2 version.
Possible side effects options - Use of module would result in negative effects, such as: - High activation cost. - Higher signature radius. - Reduction in targeting range or targeting resolution.
Training - Skill levels could: - Reduce activation cost. - Reduce signature radius penalty. - Reduce effects on targeting range or resolution. - Reduce activation duration.
Lastly, perhaps these devices should be restricted only to certain E-war vessels, though I'm not settled on that idea.
TELL ME YOU'RE THOUGHTS, TALK IT UP IF YOU THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA!! Bad idea - join a real corp or at least post with your main you giant krab. Because hes a KRAAAAAAAAB
He really is a krab though...
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
|
Wolf Lafisques
Maraque Enterprises Just let it happen
6
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 19:27:37 -
[22] - Quote
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:- Module can not be active during warp. - other modules cant be active simultaneously, though maybe not the "covert" T2 version.
Sorry, Elyia, it's just not a good idea. After making your modifications to the originally proposed module, it has essentially been turned into a T1 cloak, with the exception of your proposed T2 version which may or may not allow other modules to be active simultaneously. If other modules can be active simultaneously with your proposed T2 version, the module in question will break the balance of current cloaks. If it is decided that other modules cannot be active simultaneously, then it has essentially been turned into a T2 non-cov ops cloak. The only differences that would remain are that your module would not visually conceal the ship and would still allow the ship to be targeted.
Assuming we are going with the version that allows other modules to be active simultaneously, those two points alone don't offer a large enough vulnerability. Assuming we are going with the version that disallows simultaneous activation of other modules, this module would never be used because current cloaks are better. They prevent a ship from being scanned by any means AND prevent it from being targeted. The price that is paid for those invulnerabilities is that the ship literally can do nothing else but either remain cloaked or decloak (or warp, in the case of cov ops).
I think that the main problem with your idea is that you are misunderstanding the point of a cloak. Cloaks are intended to allow the pilot to literally do nothing but hide and run away. They aren't meant to keep you hidden WHILE performing other tasks, and they wouldn't be very good cloaks if they still allowed the ship to be targeted. Again, the point is to hide and run. Perhaps you could share your intent with us. Let us know what activity you intend on performing with your module, and maybe some of us can help you come up with better ideas for your module that are neither useless nor overpowered when compared to other modules. After all, this forum is mean to encourage the development of good, new ideas. Not to break people down for their bad ideas. Let's see if we can make something that sounds good. If not, back to the drawing board. |
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 21:19:46 -
[23] - Quote
So what I'm taking away from this is, combat second shouldn't exist in their current state. They are under utilized and OP.
I should go to my main alt and put together a blap Rook fleet and test gate camping with it with my friends.
No further commentary needed. People have voiced their opinions. Clearly forums aren't meant for voicing new ideas, only IQ bashing.
Post what you want I turns off my notification. |
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
326
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 23:43:28 -
[24] - Quote
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:So what I'm taking away from this is, combat second shouldn't exist in their current state. They are under utilized and OP.
I should go to my main alt and put together a blap Rook fleet and test gate camping with it with my friends.
No further commentary needed. People have voiced their opinions. Clearly forums aren't meant for voicing new ideas, only IQ bashing.
Post what you want I turns off my notification.
Can you explain why this idea is needed? You've yet to do this.
Or you could keep insulting the people who are giving feedback instead of responding to them like an adult. |
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