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Aoife Fraoch
Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance
203
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Posted - 2015.10.26 13:40:33 -
[331] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Aoife Fraoch wrote:Odie McCracken wrote:Aoife Fraoch wrote:It is a tough one isn't it. I am still not sure if it's a troll or just really really easily "confused". Gotta hand it to him for keeping it on topic. Seems like these sort of threads usually devolve into a ganker vs carebear type of thing. This guy has kept the sights set on amusing nonsense and not deviated. Hats off on that, I guess. That is a good point, I suppose at least it is different. He is like a 12-layer taco dip... no matter which flavor we peel back, he seems to make sure our nacho chips are still being dipped in.
That is an unusual yet compelling analogy.
I would go with the plural of 'non sequitur' is not 'compelling argument'. |
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
344
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Posted - 2015.10.26 15:12:51 -
[332] - Quote
Dror wrote:Rep and sec status could be account-based (the same answer as about the original question..
Mind relaying how you imagine EVE to be more like a themepark game if subs can actually play the sandbox how they would.. without an arbitrary gate?
So again you want to change the fundamental mechanics of what's made this gmae successful for over a decade? Tying reputation to an account completely ruins a large part of the social/political meta that's part of EVE.
Because actions would no longer have consequences. You could do whatever you want, biomass a character and start over. That's a themepark. The current SP system doesn't prevent anything. I was living in null a month into the game. The current system promotes creativity and emergent gameplay, which is essential to a sandbox. Your ideas stifle that. Stop it. Bad Dror.
I get it sir Dror. You're upset you can't fly a cap yet and aren't creative enough to find something else to do in game. Fill out this form and return it to me ASAP, and I can help resolve this for you
http://i.imgur.com/WK73yaU.png |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25512
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Posted - 2015.10.26 15:31:17 -
[333] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:I get it sir Dror. You're upset you can't fly a cap yet If he could it'd be an ALOD waiting to happen. Without support a Cap is vulnerable, in the hands of somebody who hasn't got a clue it's an easy killmail.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
57
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Posted - 2015.10.26 15:32:46 -
[334] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Dror wrote:Rep and sec status could be account-based (the same answer as about the original question..
Mind relaying how you imagine EVE to be more like a themepark game if subs can actually play the sandbox how they would.. without an arbitrary gate? So again you want to change the fundamental mechanics of what's made this gmae successful for over a decade? Tying reputation to an account completely ruins a large part of the social/political meta that's part of EVE. Because actions would no longer have consequences. You could do whatever you want, biomass a character and start over. That's a themepark. The current SP system doesn't prevent anything. I was living in null a month into the game. The current system promotes creativity and emergent gameplay, which is essential to a sandbox. Your ideas stifle that. Stop it. Bad Dror. I get it sir Dror. You're upset you can't fly a cap yet and aren't creative enough to find something else to do in game. Fill out this form and return it to me ASAP, and I can help resolve this for you http://i.imgur.com/WK73yaU.png Every source on the topic lists themepark as a design that's unaffected by player input.. but if you can evidence that the game realm would just reset ever X because you can biomass a character, I'm sure that'd be a humorous line of mental gymnastics.
So, reducing options and effectiveness reduces engagement profiles, yeah? So, fewer fights are taken because of an unfair field? Well, it seems that loss aversion would affect newbies as well -- then, how would they be interested in the game? Furthermore, how would they be interested in the game unless they could try multiple niches? Thus, how can there be creativity with such limited engagement windows? So, SP is what stifles fluidity from newbie through veteran and apparently much inbetween.
Great chat.
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
345
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Posted - 2015.10.26 15:39:40 -
[335] - Quote
Dror wrote:Every source on the topic lists themepark as a design that's unaffected by player input.. but if you can evidence that the game realm would just reset ever X because you can biomass a character, I'm sure that'd be a humorous line of mental gymnastics.
So, reducing options and effectiveness reduces engagement profiles, yeah? So, fewer fights are taken because of an unfair field? Well, it seems that loss aversion would affect newbies as well -- then, how would they be interested in the game? Furthermore, how would they be interested in the game unless they could try multiple niches? Thus, how can there be creativity with such limited engagement windows? So, SP is what stifles fluidity from newbie through veteran and apparently much inbetween.
Great chat.
You can try multiple niches as it is today. Yet again, all your idea would do is drive the core playerbase out of the game and ruin the meta of long term character-based reputations. SP isn't what stifles anything. A lack of creativity and ingenuity is what stifles newbies.
If you think people wouldn't biomass to awox, scam, gank, etc, even more if they could immediately have max SP pilots, you really don't actually play this game...
nice thread Mr. "I want to change fundamental game mechanics because I'm not creative enough to think of anything to do but pilot a cap" Dror |
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
57
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Posted - 2015.10.26 16:01:41 -
[336] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Dror wrote:Every source on the topic lists themepark as a design that's unaffected by player input.. but if you can evidence that the game realm would just reset ever X because you can biomass a character, I'm sure that'd be a humorous line of mental gymnastics.
So, reducing options and effectiveness reduces engagement profiles, yeah? So, fewer fights are taken because of an unfair field? Well, it seems that loss aversion would affect newbies as well -- then, how would they be interested in the game? Furthermore, how would they be interested in the game unless they could try multiple niches? Thus, how can there be creativity with such limited engagement windows? So, SP is what stifles fluidity from newbie through veteran and apparently much inbetween.
Great chat. You can try multiple niches as it is today. Yet again, all your idea would do is drive the core playerbase out of the game and ruin the meta of long term character-based reputations. SP isn't what stifles anything. A lack of creativity and ingenuity is what stifles newbies. If you think people wouldn't biomass to awox, scam, gank, etc, even more if they could immediately have max SP pilots, you really don't actually play this game... nice thread Mr. "I want to change fundamental game mechanics because I'm not creative enough to think of anything to do but pilot a cap" Dror Hmm? I just explained how SP limits creativity, and there's a list of creative-friendly constraints in this thread already.
Enjoy.
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
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Bobb Bobbington
The Cult of the Rare Pepes
93
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Posted - 2015.10.26 16:28:46 -
[337] - Quote
*sigh*
The 'arbitrary gate' aren't arbitrary. The 'gates' are the entire game. They're the whole point of the game. They're why we play the game. Want me to say this again for the nth time in a row? |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25512
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Posted - 2015.10.26 16:32:21 -
[338] - Quote
Creativity is making the most of what you have.
As for the SP system, it creates aspiration. A reward earned is worth far more than something handed out to all and sundry.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
57
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Posted - 2015.10.26 16:39:10 -
[339] - Quote
Bobb Bobbington wrote:*sigh*
The 'arbitrary gate' aren't arbitrary. The 'gates' are the entire game. They're the whole point of the game. They're why we play the game. Want me to say this again for the nth time in a row? "SP is the whole game." Is that really worth posting, as if it refutes any of the posts on this very page?
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Creativity is making the most of what you have. As for the SP system, it creates aspiration. A reward earned is worth far more than something handed out to all and sundry. Everything it adds only come because it originally removes them. You're literally saying that not being able to play the game to its fullest potential is helpful.
Also, that's an awful definition of creativity.
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
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Bobb Bobbington
The Cult of the Rare Pepes
93
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Posted - 2015.10.26 16:43:22 -
[340] - Quote
Dror wrote:Bobb Bobbington wrote:*sigh*
The 'arbitrary gate' aren't arbitrary. The 'gates' are the entire game. They're the whole point of the game. They're why we play the game. Want me to say this again for the nth time in a row? "SP is the whole game." Is that really worth posting, as if it refutes any of the posts on this very page?
Not just SP, but all of the difficulties in Eve. SP is only one of them, but a very needed one of them. And yes, it is worth posting, because evidently you can't accept the fact that the challenge is the fun part. |
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Dror
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
57
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Posted - 2015.10.26 16:51:41 -
[341] - Quote
Bobb Bobbington wrote:Dror wrote:Bobb Bobbington wrote:*sigh*
The 'arbitrary gate' aren't arbitrary. The 'gates' are the entire game. They're the whole point of the game. They're why we play the game. Want me to say this again for the nth time in a row? "SP is the whole game." Is that really worth posting, as if it refutes any of the posts on this very page? Not just SP, but all of the difficulties in Eve. SP is only one of them, but a very needed one of them. And yes, it is worth posting, because evidently you can't accept the fact that the challenge is the fun part. Now it's that setting a queue is challenging. The standards!
What do you have to lose from gaining x00M SP, per se?
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
345
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Posted - 2015.10.26 17:04:48 -
[342] - Quote
Dror wrote:Hmm? I just explained how SP limits creativity, and there's a list of creative-friendly constraints in this thread already.Enjoy.
Dror, that just proves you aren't creative at all, and think the only content in game is what you can find in a 30 second google search.
Thanks for proving my point though |
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 17:08:36 -
[343] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Dror wrote:Hmm? I just explained how SP limits creativity, and there's a list of creative-friendly constraints in this thread already.Enjoy. Dror, that just proves you aren't creative at all, and think the only content in game is what you can find in a 30 second google search. Thanks for proving my point though So, refute it.
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25514
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 17:10:15 -
[344] - Quote
Dror wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Creativity is making the most of what you have. As for the SP system, it creates aspiration. A reward earned is worth far more than something handed out to all and sundry. Everything it adds only come because it originally removes them. You're literally saying that not being able to play the game to its fullest potential is helpful. Also, that's an awful definition of creativity. How so? To make the maximum use of limited resources (in this case SP, isk and choice of flyable hulls) requires creativity and/or knowledge.
SP doesn't remove anything, it only adds. It's the "equivalent" of RL career progression, as your skills increase so do your theoretical abilities. The system is set up to allow you, the player, to initially learn the basics and then hone your skills, both personal and ingame, as you climb the ship class ladder.
Career progression in the real world is basically the same, you start at the bottom, you learn the basics, you hone your skills, you learn more stuff and you work your way up the ladder.
Would you also say that career progression in the real world removes stuff from somebody starting at the bottom of the employment ladder?
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
57
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Posted - 2015.10.26 17:44:14 -
[345] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Dror wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Creativity is making the most of what you have. As for the SP system, it creates aspiration. A reward earned is worth far more than something handed out to all and sundry. Everything it adds only come because it originally removes them. You're literally saying that not being able to play the game to its fullest potential is helpful. Also, that's an awful definition of creativity. How so? To make the maximum use of limited resources (in this case SP, isk and choice of flyable hulls) requires creativity and/or knowledge. SP doesn't remove anything, it only adds. It's the "equivalent" of RL career progression, as your skills increase so do your theoretical abilities. The system is set up to allow you, the player, to initially learn the basics and then hone your skills, both personal and ingame, as you climb the ship class ladder. Career progression in the real world is basically the same, you start at the bottom, you learn the basics, you hone your skills, you learn more stuff and you work your way up the ladder. Would you also say that career progression in the real world removes stuff from somebody starting at the bottom of the employment ladder? That might be the definition of ingenuity; but saying that's the definition of creativity is like saying that being given a rock produces more creativity than a full set of paints.
Thereof, SP definitely does "remove" options from the full spectrum of the game. Furthermore, there are very few RL jobs that are renowned for entertaining progression.. In fact, the job itself should be entertaining.. not "unlocking" more potential. There's probably not even a job that offers more from unlocks than from the experience, worth saying because "intrinsic motivation is much more powerful than extrinsic motivation (better for creativity, etc.)".
SP is an extrinsic motivator -- pay the sub, be rewarded with a skill queue and eventual options. Yet, CCP themselves are saying that intrinsic motivation (the openness of learning and mastery and exploration) is better than extrinsic motivation ("unlocking ships"). So, what now?
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25516
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 17:56:48 -
[346] - Quote
Dror wrote:That might be the definition of ingenuity; How do you separate the 2? Ingenuity involves solving difficult problems, often in creative ways.
Quote:but saying that's the definition of creativity is like saying that being given a rock produces more creativity than a full set of paints. It's a definition, it's not the definition. Creativity is being able to create or invent something, creating viable tactics using what you have is being creative.
What you're suggesting is neither creative nor ingenious, you just want CCP to give stuff to you off the bat.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Bobb Bobbington
The Cult of the Rare Pepes
93
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 18:01:20 -
[347] - Quote
Dror wrote:Bobb Bobbington wrote:Dror wrote:Bobb Bobbington wrote:*sigh*
The 'arbitrary gate' aren't arbitrary. The 'gates' are the entire game. They're the whole point of the game. They're why we play the game. Want me to say this again for the nth time in a row? "SP is the whole game." Is that really worth posting, as if it refutes any of the posts on this very page? Not just SP, but all of the difficulties in Eve. SP is only one of them, but a very needed one of them. And yes, it is worth posting, because evidently you can't accept the fact that the challenge is the fun part. Now it's that setting a queue is challenging. The standards! What do you have to lose from gaining x00M SP, per se?
SP incites meaningful, permanent choices. For instance, for some bass-ackward reason one of the first level V skills I trained was salvaging, even though I've only used it once or twice. I also trained mining skills, and have never used them in something like a year and a half. Normally, I'd never be able to get those SP back. Now, with the introduction of skill packets, this choice becomes rather obsolete, which is why I'm against skill packets. But it used to be a meaningful, permanent choice that was part of the core of Eve. Eve is all about permanent choices, and SP was a way of delivering it and rewarding players to become loyal and play longer. Like I've said, it's supposed to be a barrier to overcome, just like everything else in Eve. |
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 18:13:31 -
[348] - Quote
Bobb Bobbington wrote:Dror wrote:Bobb Bobbington wrote:Dror wrote:Bobb Bobbington wrote:*sigh*
The 'arbitrary gate' aren't arbitrary. The 'gates' are the entire game. They're the whole point of the game. They're why we play the game. Want me to say this again for the nth time in a row? "SP is the whole game." Is that really worth posting, as if it refutes any of the posts on this very page? Not just SP, but all of the difficulties in Eve. SP is only one of them, but a very needed one of them. And yes, it is worth posting, because evidently you can't accept the fact that the challenge is the fun part. Now it's that setting a queue is challenging. The standards! What do you have to lose from gaining x00M SP, per se? SP incites meaningful, permanent choices. For instance, for some bass-ackward reason one of the first level V skills I trained was salvaging, even though I've only used it once or twice. I also trained mining skills, and have never used them in something like a year and a half. Normally, I'd never be able to get those SP back. Now, with the introduction of skill packets, this choice becomes rather obsolete, which is why I'm against skill packets. But it used to be a meaningful, permanent choice that was part of the core of Eve. Eve is all about permanent choices, and SP was a way of delivering it and rewarding players to become loyal and play longer. Like I've said, it's supposed to be a barrier to overcome, just like everything else in Eve. That's still implying that all barriers are some equally-interesting design, and that's just shallow. If a character limited themselves to frigates, they wouldn't necessarily have more fun than if they played whatever -- especially if the whatever actually improves their fleet comp or corp productivity. The same is true for having fewer ISK-making options. Fewer goods is fewer stations with goods, which is more travel, which is less interesting content.
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
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Bobb Bobbington
The Cult of the Rare Pepes
93
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Posted - 2015.10.26 18:23:44 -
[349] - Quote
Exactly! While a character unlocks one thing, he has to wait to unlock another. That creates meaningful choices. It also incites excitement when you can "Finally fly a battleship!" etc etc. But at the same time it doesn't harm nubs, since training a base skill to level 4 takes one day, but to level 5 it takes an entire week, so new players can get caught up, while vets still have a small advantage in SP. You don't need perfect level 5 skills to perform well in a fleet, you can get by in a destroyer fleet with T1 guns, destroyer 3, and enough skills for a few tanking mods. You won't be optimal, but you'd still be operating at something like 70-75% of what a vet might in only a few day's training. |
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 18:31:19 -
[350] - Quote
Bobb Bobbington wrote:Exactly! While a character unlocks one thing, he has to wait to unlock another. That creates meaningful choices. It also incites excitement when you can "Finally fly a battleship!" etc etc. But at the same time it doesn't harm nubs, since training a base skill to level 4 takes one day, but to level 5 it takes an entire week, so new players can get caught up, while vets still have a small advantage in SP. You don't need perfect level 5 skills to perform well in a fleet, you can get by in a destroyer fleet with T1 guns, destroyer 3, and enough skills for a few tanking mods. You won't be optimal, but you'd still be operating at something like 70-75% of what a vet might in only a few day's training. Exactly, what? There's less content?
All of that downplays how much training there is for diversity. The game is advertised for diversity. Checkmate.
"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
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Bobb Bobbington
The Cult of the Rare Pepes
93
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Posted - 2015.10.26 18:43:45 -
[351] - Quote
Dror wrote:Bobb Bobbington wrote:Exactly! While a character unlocks one thing, he has to wait to unlock another. That creates meaningful choices. It also incites excitement when you can "Finally fly a battleship!" etc etc. But at the same time it doesn't harm nubs, since training a base skill to level 4 takes one day, but to level 5 it takes an entire week, so new players can get caught up, while vets still have a small advantage in SP. You don't need perfect level 5 skills to perform well in a fleet, you can get by in a destroyer fleet with T1 guns, destroyer 3, and enough skills for a few tanking mods. You won't be optimal, but you'd still be operating at something like 70-75% of what a vet might in only a few day's training. Exactly, what? There's less content? All of that downplays how much training there is for diversity. The game is advertised for diversity. Checkmate.
Heh, you're funny. You know that? You should do stand up comedy. Eve online is advertised as being hard, as being a challenge. It's advertised as 'lawless', be a scammer, or a pirate, go harvest player's tears CCP doesn't care. Eve's advertised as being a hard place to live in. It has never advertised being easy, or being "diverse" (aka do whatever you want, when you want).
Queen to B-4 See I can make chess references too |
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
345
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 18:47:53 -
[352] - Quote
Dror wrote:So, refute it.
Your selective attention is acting up again. You should see a doctor about that.
Have you been reading this thread? |
Odie McCracken
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
107
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Posted - 2015.10.26 19:00:28 -
[353] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Dror wrote:So, refute it. Your selective attention is acting up again. You should see a doctor about that. Have you been reading this thread?
The reading definitely seems selective. Then he'll quote something he said earlier in the thread like that will make it suddenly relevant.
It's fun to watch in a way. It's like he's said that water isn't wet and it's up to us to prove that it is. |
LancashireUK
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
4
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Posted - 2015.10.26 19:05:31 -
[354] - Quote
Dror wrote:.....It was true for SWG. SP's limits are incredibly awful.
SWG failed due to poorly implemented changes that were not needed.
talkGEEK ||
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
345
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Posted - 2015.10.26 19:28:50 -
[355] - Quote
Odie McCracken wrote:The reading definitely seems selective. Then he'll quote something he said earlier in the thread like that will make it suddenly relevant.
It's fun to watch in a way. It's like he's said that water isn't wet and it's up to us to prove that it is.
In the last one of these threads he made I quoted CCP Falcon's explanation of why the NPE is so difficult and he called what Falcon said wrong.
That was amusing. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25519
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 21:52:51 -
[356] - Quote
Odie McCracken wrote:Cidanel Afuran wrote:Your selective attention is acting up again. You should see a doctor about that.
Have you been reading this thread? The reading definitely seems selective. Indeed it does, he's not interested in what anybody else has to say unless he can dispute it (poorly for the most part) or it agrees with his uninformed opinions.
Quote:Then he'll quote something he said earlier in the thread like that will make it suddenly relevant. Self referential quotes of himself saying "I'm right and you're not" shows just how poor his hand really is. Any external references he cites are belittled by his lack of understanding the material or the improper use of it when applied to a game whose spirit harks back to when gaming was challenging and not so mainstream.
Quote:It's fun to watch in a way. It's like he's said that water isn't wet and it's up to us to prove that it is. That depends on what state the water is in
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
347
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 22:08:18 -
[357] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Self referential quotes of himself saying "look what I wrote, I'm right and you're not" shows just how poor his hand really is. Any external references he cites are belittled by his lack of understanding the material or the improper use of it when applied to a game whose spirit harks back to when gaming was challenging and not so mainstream.
But Jonah, he read a few paragraphs in an article on game design. Why wouldn't that mean he knows more than the company who has designed and run the game for 10+ years? |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2333
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Posted - 2015.10.26 22:31:08 -
[358] - Quote
My little amusement is that he is holding up games with levelling systems. Systems in which there is severe level range restrictions with regards to who you can meaningfully play with.
Mean while, we have this SP system where a week old new player can be useful in even the greatest of battles. That they are new and "low value" makes them intrinsically valuable. They can scout ahead with no implants or cheap ones, in cheap ships, if they join an established group they can have their assets continuously replaced without being a burden and learning how to play in the process.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25520
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 23:19:18 -
[359] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:My little amusement is that he is holding up games with levelling systems. Systems in which there is severe level range restrictions with regards to who you can meaningfully play with.
Mean while, we have this SP system where a week old new player can be useful in even the greatest of battles. That they are new and "low value" makes them intrinsically valuable. They can scout ahead with no implants or cheap ones, in cheap ships, if they join an established group they can have their assets continuously replaced without being a burden and learning how to play in the process. (Hae to love those newbies who try e-war frigates and become really exceptional e-war pilots later on) Yep.
Blood thirsty newbies and low SP characters en-masse in cheap ships are scarily effective, especially if at least one of them has a clue; at least one major nullsec corp started that way.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
ficr
Republic University Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2015.10.26 23:49:02 -
[360] - Quote
helana Tsero wrote: Also EvE has more stuff to do than pretty much any game you could name... however finding that content is harder than the majority of games
QFT THIS is the FAQ to new player's "What do I do now?" gripe. Once you find that content it's like the Wizard of Oz changing from black and white to color. |
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