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Angus McLean
Gallente Divinity Trials
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Posted - 2007.01.01 05:46:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Angus McLean on 01/01/2007 05:47:50
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Angus McLean Edited by: Angus McLean on 30/12/2006 18:08:42 The idea of gang warfare isnt, "Quick everybody warp to Belt IV where this battleship is!" and then no one locks the Sac.
The idea is, the sac warps there and engages the target, then the rest warp on top of him. Its not a wasted tank if you know how to work gang fights like above.
The Target is then either forced to unlock you and lock someone else, or continue wasting his ammo on you. If he chooses to unlock the sac then he is losing precious time he needs to win the fight.
And to the poster who said it tanks worse then the maller...utter amarrian herecy Oh and this is why. Maller and sac have same low slots. Sac has more PG for injector. Sac even outdamages the maller, but that still doesnt break 100 dps . Sac has much higher base resistances. How could you even think the maller tanks better?
Yes it is you big dummy.
1. Look, you warp in on the BS and tackle, he engages the ship and the battle is joined. You friends warp in. Once they do, the BS starts to lock them. He doesnt have to unlock anyone, simply turns his guns off and target someone else. It will take him 5 seconds to lock[his gun cycle time] so he looses no time.
2. The Maller does in fact have 6 low slots and the Sacriledge 5
3. A prophecy is better for this role anyway[better cap, 1 extra low slot, tons more armor, more PG to fit NOS on top to keep a dual rep tri-hardener/Ean tank running. You will have nearly the same resists, better repping, stronger/more NOS, and just as much tackling gear as you need[with highs full of NOS you dont need an injector]. It can fit:
6xMed Nos+1small NOS MWD/WEB/SCRAM 2xMARII/EX/THERM/KIN/EANM
This will put your lowest resist at 74%, give you some 7k armor running dual MAR's basically forever.[6 NOS I will run 2 MARII at max skills forever so long as your opponent has cap, and if he doesnt have cap, well then the battle is all but won anyway]
And the Prophecy is cheaper and insurable.
Ill come back to your first point later.
2: Extra low slot doesnt make up for the insane resistance increase. With that extra low you could add...a stacked EANM? A CPR? A heatsink to your already poor damage?
Not really viable, maybe a damage control, but overall tanking will still not be better.
3: 74% resistances arent better at all mate. Most sacs resists are 82% +, and yes those few points do make a difference.
Prophecy has a larger sig, slower, meaning it takes more overall damage. Mixed with its already unsuperior resistances, you still die fast.
Oh and no matter how many nos you have, you will never replace the need for an injector.What happens if your amazing proph gets jammed? Your screwed.
4: Cheaper and more insurable isnt the point. The OP clearly wants to know about the sac, if you cant afford to lose it, dont fly it. Fortunately most of us can afford to lose it, hence why we fly it on a daily basis.
T2 ships are all about performance and show. This ships performance is amazing at its job, tanking. Exactly what the OP was asking about.
EDIT: and about the armor issue with the proph. You could add a 1600mm plate to the sacs 5th low slot and have about the same armor HP, and still better resistances than the proph.
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JoeT
Amarr Short Attention Span
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Posted - 2007.01.01 05:49:00 -
[32]
Originally by: St'oto btw maller tanks better than sac
Wrong. oh so wrong ASNC noob --- If i'm posting on the forums, it's mostly cause i'm at work :D
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korrey
Taurus Inc
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Posted - 2007.01.01 05:55:00 -
[33]
Originally by: JoeT
Originally by: St'oto btw maller tanks better than sac
Wrong. oh so wrong ASNC noob
Ty for that, I like to be a bit less blunt, but whatever works.
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Kyguard
Fire Mandrill
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Posted - 2007.01.01 06:24:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow Woohoo i can tank while you shoot.
Guess what, everyone knows the Sacrilege tanks, noone in his right mind calls it primary. IE, all yer damage gang mates get killed while you sit there tanking... Well, tanking nothing coz noone shoots you till yer gang is dead.
the whole 'tank while your gangmates kill' approach clearly shows youre a carebear whos never seen real PvP coz it only works in complexes.
That is the most simple pvp situation you can come up with. Everyone knows pvp isn't all about bread, butter and knife. A ton of factors go into each battle to determine who's the winner. The sac has its uses and it requires a bit more thinking outside the box.. -
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Angus McLean
Gallente Divinity Trials
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Posted - 2007.01.01 06:30:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kyguard
Originally by: Elve Sorrow Woohoo i can tank while you shoot.
Guess what, everyone knows the Sacrilege tanks, noone in his right mind calls it primary. IE, all yer damage gang mates get killed while you sit there tanking... Well, tanking nothing coz noone shoots you till yer gang is dead.
the whole 'tank while your gangmates kill' approach clearly shows youre a carebear whos never seen real PvP coz it only works in complexes.
That is the most simple pvp situation you can come up with. Everyone knows pvp isn't all about bread, butter and knife. A ton of factors go into each battle to determine who's the winner. The sac has its uses and it requires a bit more thinking outside the box..
QFT,
lol most people dont even have time to think about what they are shooting.
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Lygos
Amarr ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.01 06:50:00 -
[36]
The prime advantage of the sac is its capacitor. It can easily be tweaked to run T2 heavy pulses with conflagration and an MWD sustained.
With a rediculous sum of isk (kinda the point of HACs) you can reach +2800m/s and that's not even counting rigs.
T1 heavy nos will kill it of course, but you can still run away (maybe). You'll probably die to most any other HACs, and you still won't have any particular aptitude at accomplishing anything more traditional platforms could do.
The Sac can do stuff though. Wait for the smartbomb buff I guess.
--- T2 Risk | Corp Divisions |
Scordite
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Posted - 2007.01.01 13:22:00 -
[37]
Problem with sac is that it shines when getting shot, which it won't be until it doesn't matter anymore (all other friendly ships dead).
So, sac fits nos, mwd, injector, tackling gear and heavy tank. One gangmate fits a couple damps (preferably with ship bonuses). All dps ships fit for a bit of range. Now sac is the only ship close enough to get shot at, thus it shines while it matters.
And looks great while doing so, even. That's what's really important of course.
----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead. |
JoeT
Amarr Short Attention Span
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Posted - 2007.01.01 14:03:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Lygos The prime advantage of the sac is its capacitor. It can easily be tweaked to run T2 heavy pulses with conflagration and an MWD sustained.
With a rediculous sum of isk (kinda the point of HACs) you can reach +2800m/s and that's not even counting rigs.
T1 heavy nos will kill it of course, but you can still run away (maybe). You'll probably die to most any other HACs, and you still won't have any particular aptitude at accomplishing anything more traditional platforms could do.
The Sac can do stuff though. Wait for the smartbomb buff I guess.
Decent setup and you'll have no problem with one heavy nos on you, but a Neut or a couple heavy nos, and you'll start feel it. Stay away from the Domi :D --- If i'm posting on the forums, it's mostly cause i'm at work :D
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2007.01.01 14:18:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Angus McLean
2: Extra low slot doesnt make up for the insane resistance increase. With that extra low you could add...a stacked EANM? A CPR? A heatsink to your already poor damage?
Not really viable, maybe a damage control, but overall tanking will still not be better.
3: 74% resistances arent better at all mate. Most sacs resists are 82% +, and yes those few points do make a difference.
Prophecy has a larger sig, slower, meaning it takes more overall damage. Mixed with its already unsuperior resistances, you still die fast.
Oh and no matter how many nos you have, you will never replace the need for an injector.What happens if your amazing proph gets jammed? Your screwed.
4: Cheaper and more insurable isnt the point. The OP clearly wants to know about the sac, if you cant afford to lose it, dont fly it. Fortunately most of us can afford to lose it, hence why we fly it on a daily basis.
T2 ships are all about performance and show. This ships performance is amazing at its job, tanking. Exactly what the OP was asking about.
EDIT: and about the armor issue with the proph. You could add a 1600mm plate to the sacs 5th low slot and have about the same armor HP, and still better resistances than the proph.
2. Yea, I fail to see where this was in dispute? It was just stating that yes, it does in fact, have that extra low.
3. Yea, but it doesnt need to be. And its plenty for 2 MARs.
4 Cheaper and more insuarable IS the point. This entire game is resource and risk management. The fact that flying it carries extra risks above those found in a typical ship, and one neary as good at the job is the sole reason why the deimos is considered ****, and this carries here as well. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Lt Angus
Caldari Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.01 16:02:00 -
[40]
4 Cheaper and more insuarable IS the point. This entire game is resource and risk management. The fact that flying it carries extra risks above those found in a typical ship, and one neary as good at the job is the sole reason why the deimos is considered ****, and this carries here as well.
since when is deimos considered **** this game stoped being about resource and risk managment along time ago for alot of us
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Angus McLean
Gallente Divinity Trials
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Posted - 2007.01.01 16:36:00 -
[41]
If this game was about resource management, I wouldnt be flying kamikaze HAC gangs with gangmates in enemy territory for fun.
Its only about resources until you hit the golden age where you dont know what to do with your money. Then you start buying expensive ships like factions ships.
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Hellspawn01
Amarr Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2007.01.01 17:36:00 -
[42]
4x heavy pulse II 2x named light missile launchers
1x named warp disruptor 3x cap rechargers II
2x med faction reppers 1x Corpum EANM 1x Energized thermic membrane II 1x RCU II
Tanks forever with running guns and multi crystals.
Ship lovers click here |
Moonbeam Stalker
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Posted - 2007.01.01 18:28:00 -
[43]
Originally by: St'oto btw maller tanks better than sac
me wonders how you lost your space so fast.. oh wait ^^
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Angus McLean
Gallente Divinity Trials
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Posted - 2007.01.01 18:54:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Moonbeam Stalker
Originally by: St'oto btw maller tanks better than sac
me wonders how you lost your space so fast.. oh wait ^^
Must have had a fleet of mallers vs BoB's Sac fleet.
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Almarez
Setenta Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.08 20:50:00 -
[45]
I appreciate the many replies, but what it comes down to is that this ship can't survive on its own in PVP...right? New outpost-30 bil isk, Items to save up for cap ships-700 mil isk, Going to bed early now that you don't have to work for that and realizing how much poontang you were missing-PRICELESS |
bellator militaris
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Posted - 2007.07.01 08:41:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Hellspawn01 4x heavy pulse II 2x named light missile launchers
1x named warp disruptor 3x cap rechargers II
2x med faction reppers 1x Corpum EANM 1x Energized thermic membrane II 1x RCU II
Tanks forever with running guns and multi crystals.
I still believe that it is the pilot and the ship that make it come together. Excellent post. SPQR
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Bentula
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Posted - 2007.07.01 14:37:00 -
[47]
The sac is great for two things, tanking and tackling. Pretty obvious where those two come together aint it? For example it could be used as a tackler for gate camping in lowsec, holding targets down for the BS 150km away from the gate.
Grats you just put your enemy into a situation where he has to kill the sac to be able to get away.
Same idea in 0.0, sac on gate one or two eagle far off. Sure a absolution or more likely a damnation could do similar, but its alot bigger, slower(both in warp and out of warp) and cant lock as fast.
Even in a vanilla pvp gang you still have a tackler the hostiles cant kill without committing quiete some resources to it to kill "just" a tackler. Best case primary targets never get out, worst case hostiles waste time killing you instead a frail hard hitter.
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Wizard
Without Reason
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Posted - 2007.07.01 15:10:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Originally by: Fubear
Originally by: Elve Sorrow Guess what, everyone knows the Sacrilege tanks, noone in his right mind calls it primary. IE, all yer damage gang mates get killed while you sit there tanking... Well, tanking nothing coz noone shoots you till yer gang is dead.
So how would a pure DPS Sac stack up then? Assuming you are not going to get called primary until the fight it already lost, why bother to fit a tank at all?
4 Heavy Pulse/Beam, 2xHAM, 3xWarrior 2x Sensor Booster II, 2x TRacking Computer 2x HS, 2x BCU, 1x MAR (or SAR if MAR wont fit)
Not sure how well that setup would work.
It wouldnt work too bad, but you might aswell use a Zealot then. More damage, and a better tank (no trouble atall fitting a plate)
Im just chuckling to myself cos i can imagine you getting frsutrated elve at the comments your replying to, i aggree with you btw.
I did see a sac that was nano fitted the other day, it was very gd at running.
Without Reason corp website
^^looking for a PvP corp with little stress then |
Wizard
Without Reason
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Posted - 2007.07.01 15:13:00 -
[49]
Originally by: bellator militaris
Originally by: Hellspawn01 4x heavy pulse II 2x named light missile launchers
1x named warp disruptor 3x cap rechargers II
2x med faction reppers 1x Corpum EANM 1x Energized thermic membrane II 1x RCU II
Tanks forever with running guns and multi crystals.
I still believe that it is the pilot and the ship that make it come together. Excellent post. SPQR
A duel rep tank on any ship in EVEs current carnation is just a load of twaddle tbh, as sn as 1 or maybe 2 medium nos are put on that sac then its toast. Most ships you encounter nowadays ahe a nos on.
What with the excellent game balance in place also you can buy a tk1 battlecruiser and tank better whilst doing better damage than any hac if setup reasonably competent.
Without Reason corp website
^^looking for a PvP corp with little stress then |
Xtro 2
Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2007.07.01 15:25:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Angus McLean Please ignore anyone posting saying the Sac is ********/useless/crap/stupid/ghey/cursed..ect. They just fail at eve and dont seem to grasp what it is supposed to do.
The sac is not a ship that does damage. It tanks. You get in a gang, tank damage while your partners worry about killing stuff.
Fit for tank and get popcorn to watch targets pop from your gang mates. Ganking is not your role. Amarr ships are not good solo ships. MOST everyone knows this by now.
its supposed to NOT get beaten down by command ships which fill the HAC role better than HAC's do.
If you can pilot command ships you dont need so called HAC's their vastly inferior.
Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder. |
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Kyozoku
Mutiny.
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Posted - 2007.07.01 16:45:00 -
[51]
kyo is still waiting for khanid mk.2
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Hellspawn01
Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.07.01 20:18:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Wizard
Originally by: bellator militaris
Originally by: Hellspawn01 4x heavy pulse II 2x named light missile launchers
1x named warp disruptor 3x cap rechargers II
2x med faction reppers 1x Corpum EANM 1x Energized thermic membrane II 1x RCU II
Tanks forever with running guns and multi crystals.
I still believe that it is the pilot and the ship that make it come together. Excellent post. SPQR
A duel rep tank on any ship in EVEs current carnation is just a load of twaddle tbh, as sn as 1 or maybe 2 medium nos are put on that sac then its toast. Most ships you encounter nowadays ahe a nos on.
What with the excellent game balance in place also you can buy a tk1 battlecruiser and tank better whilst doing better damage than any hac if setup reasonably competent.
If you do more dmg or tank better with a T1 ship than with your HAC, then you are doing something very wrong. With my setup, I tank a 6-8 NPC BSs or an apoc and zealot permanently or sentries and a raven. Do that with a T1 cruiser.
Ship lovers click here |
Elve Sorrow
Amarr Shinra
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Posted - 2007.07.01 20:24:00 -
[53]
Look, ive made this challenge before and ill make it again.
Give me one example of something that a Sacrilege is good at, and ill give you an example of another ship that can do it better.
Because you bet your ass there's one out there, for every scenario you come up with.
EVE-O Forums Rules summary: If the thought of doing something makes me giggle for more then 15 seconds, I am to assume I'm not allowed to do it. |
Sey'ada
Decadence.
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Posted - 2007.07.01 21:10:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Sey''ada on 01/07/2007 21:09:30 I had a sacrilege once. It has seen a lot of fights, and never anyone even tried to shoot at it. There were always other ships around it which made a more worth target.
One day i warped it accidently to a pos and it finally got destroyed, and somehow i was happy to get rid of it
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Graalum
Foundation R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.02 00:49:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow Look, ive made this challenge before and ill make it again.
Give me one example of something that a Sacrilege is good at, and ill give you an example of another ship that can do it better.
Because you bet your ass there's one out there, for every scenario you come up with.
i've hear its about the best hac for npcing drones, outside of maybe the cerb or ishtar.
zealot would be better but its puny cargo hold makes it pretty useless.
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Corwain
Gallente Zero Team
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Posted - 2007.07.02 01:17:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow Look, ive made this challenge before and ill make it again.
Give me one example of something that a Sacrilege is good at, and ill give you an example of another ship that can do it better.
Because you bet your ass there's one out there, for every scenario you come up with.
Your challenge is rather unfair as the Sac is just a HAC. Take any HAC and you can do this scenario on everything save maybe a Vaga (although most intys play the Vaga role almost as well.
Deimos? Megathron, Brutix, Myrmidon, Astarte Ishtar? Dominix, Myrmidon, Curse, Pilgrim, Eos
Muninn? Hurricane, Sleipnir, Tempest Vaga? Intys can come close, Sleipnir, Curse
Cerb? Drake, Raven Eagle? Ferox, Rokh
How about say a role the Sac does better than any other HAC or T2 cruiser?
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Aro Tolan
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Posted - 2007.07.02 04:01:00 -
[57]
Sacrilege is an excellent heavy tackler, especially in low-sec.
And to the fool who made the challenge that he/she can "name a ship that can do it better" - you can do that with any category. There is no one ship that is 100% gauranteed to do something the best, 100% of the time.
Sacrilege = pirate ship. ------
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korrey
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.07.02 04:19:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Aro Tolan Sacrilege is an excellent heavy tackler, especially in low-sec.
And to the fool who made the challenge that he/she can "name a ship that can do it better" - you can do that with any category. There is no one ship that is 100% gauranteed to do something the best, 100% of the time.
Sacrilege = pirate ship.
Misleading ideology.
Pirate Ship = A ship capable of Soloing an enemy/target.
Sacrilege = A ship requiring a massive gang to keep it alive. ----------- Amarr- If you like to handicap yourself before the fight begins, then we may accomodate your needs surprisingly well. |
Dread Phantom
Caldari Project-Chaos
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Posted - 2007.07.02 06:28:00 -
[59]
Originally by: korrey
Originally by: Aro Tolan Sacrilege is an excellent heavy tackler, especially in low-sec.
And to the fool who made the challenge that he/she can "name a ship that can do it better" - you can do that with any category. There is no one ship that is 100% gauranteed to do something the best, 100% of the time.
Sacrilege = pirate ship.
Misleading ideology.
Pirate Ship = A ship capable of Soloing an enemy/target.
Sacrilege = A ship requiring a massive gang to keep it alive.
How do you fit yours, with civilian mods??
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Dahak2150
Chaos Monkeys
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Posted - 2007.07.02 06:41:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow Look, ive made this challenge before and ill make it again.
Give me one example of something that a Sacrilege is good at, and ill give you an example of another ship that can do it better.
Because you bet your ass there's one out there, for every scenario you come up with.
Winning this challenge. ----------------
Originally by: "Cyberus" cause its has no sence anyway your brains is simply wont accept that anyway.
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