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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4703
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Posted - 2015.10.27 21:37:04 -
[1] - Quote
First and foremost, check this thread out. I can't hold a candle to Anize, so kudos. This is pretty much the gold standard for blitzing L4s...
This is what is achievable running standard Lv4 missions (no Burners) in a 0.6 system through non-SoE Factions. All missions were accepted (none were declined except Enemy). Minimal salvage (basically any juicy implant that drops). The results were based on a runtime of 1:22 with three characters all running Faction battleships and Ascendancy implants (so there was a few billion ISK invested). Security V and Negotiation IV. I started the clock from the time all three characters were logged in, so this includes time to form-up as well as any prep such as loading ammunition, accepting the first mission, etc.
Yes, I do realize that I'm not "doing it right". Not everyone likes Burner missions, not everyone runs in true 0.5 systems and not everyone runs for SoE (again, see above link). And I do realize I'm using three characters, but that's kind of the point since dredging through standard Lv4s in a single character is rather monotonous. .....
ISK total: 99,377,780 (after a few million ISK in repairs because I was lazy). This includes a 20m ISK implant (single Storyline less the 2.5m ISK for the Kernite) and a chance Crimson Harvest where I sold a Blood Raider Abaddon SKIN for 2m ISK. I sold the salvage for market value @Jita (again, because I was lazy). Munitions costs were negligible (maybe 1-2m ISK).
LP total: ~40,000 (approximate). Conversion rate with the Faction I'm using is about 1200 ISK/LP, so definitely on the low side although not abysmally low like some Factions. I'm fairly sure I could play around with various LP rewards to get this higher, but I'm erring on the side of what is easily achievable. Moving to a 0.5 system would bump up the LP compensation as well.
Grand Total: 147m ISK / 1:22 or 108m ISK/hour.
This is a list of missions (10) I was able to complete in the 1:22 timeframe: Pirate Invasion The Anomaly 1/2/3 Unauthorized Military Presence Gone Beserk Worlds Collide Pirate Invasion The Rogue Slave Trader Downing The Slavers
I'm going to keep running this over the course of the evening to see if I can improve upon it. I know if I take a few MTUs along and come back later (provided they survive) I'll easily add another 25-50m ISK in salvage.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
481
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Posted - 2015.10.27 22:30:07 -
[2] - Quote
I will be the first to admit that I blatantly cheat by running burners
But this is good, more numbers gives a lot of context to what is possible in Hi-Sec. Especially useful to show people that want to blanket nerf Hi-Sec what's actually possible with the different HS income streams. Interested to see more numbers definitely!
A guide to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1knVqZEH8qFY0eT44nMEFwcKd3t4PbgcZeuv58SVUxsI/edit?usp=sharing
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4707
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Posted - 2015.10.27 23:29:42 -
[3] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:I will be the first to admit that I blatantly cheat by running burners It's not cheating if you're doing it right.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4707
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Posted - 2015.10.27 23:56:31 -
[4] - Quote
Here is an addition update based on an extended run of 1:53. A few caveats: First, I made a few dumb mistakes by going after the wrong mission objective in one mission and had a few unfortunate incidents where I bounced one or more ships off the acceleration gates (it happens). Second, I got rid of my light drones because I wasn't sure if they were having much of an impact due to lengthy lock times on frigates (turns out it did have a minor effect). Third, I didn't have optimal ammunition for the last mission but decided to grind through anyway (that probably extended it more than normal considering it was 5 rooms).
Mission list: GÇó Duo of Death (this is where I screwed up the objective) GÇó Stop The Thief GÇó The Guristas Spies GÇó Worlds Collide (I didn't actually go back and clear one of the second rooms) GÇó The Rogue Slave Trader GÇó Downing The Slavers GÇó The Wildcat Strike (didn't clear the second room as there's not really much point) GÇó Cargo Delivery (just got the Quafe) GÇó The Assault GÇó Angel Extravaganza (not the optimal ammo type; didn't do the bonus room) GÇó Evolution (Storyline, and drones are a b*tch on this one) GÇó Blood Raiders Beacon (Crimson Harvest)
Loot consisted of a crappy implant in Angels (not really sure why I bother; they're almost always crappy implants), another Blood Raider Abaddon SKIN and an Admiral tag from the destroyed carrier in Evolution. No repair costs this time (I decided to spring for a pair of cheap inefficient large armor repairers) and minimal ammunition costs (<2m ISK).
ISK total: 142,776,735 LP total: ~45,000 (1200 ISK/LP conversion) Grand total: 196.8m ISK / 1:53 or 104.5m ISK/hour
So even with a few screw-ups 100m ISK/hour is still attainable.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4707
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Posted - 2015.10.28 02:12:31 -
[5] - Quote
Made a few tweaks to two of the ships in my fleet to have a bit less tank and damage and more damage application overall, and added a flight of light drones to each (minimal use in 1 or 2 missions). Running time was 1:03 (the shortest segment) but the most profitable of the group. Finally got some decent implant drops in this one. Mission list (7): GÇó The Assaut GÇó Cargo Delivery (did kill everything this time) GÇó Dread Pirate Scarlet (killed absolutely everything, including Scarlet twice) GÇó The Rogue Slave Trader GÇó Downing the Slavers GÇó Massive Attack GÇó The Damsel In Distress (only looted 70m Zor implant; worth it chasing after this chick occasionally...)
ISK total: 78,498,606 Loot: 80,300,000 LP total: ~32,500 (1200 ISK/LP conversion) Grand total: 197,798,606 ISK / 1:03 or 188.3m ISK/hour
Taking the average of the last three sessions: GÇó 539.6m ISK total (197.8m ISK, 147.0m ISK and 194.8m ISK) GÇó 258 minutes total (1:22, 1:53 and 1:03) GÇó 2.09m ISK/minute or 125.5m ISK/hour
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
52128
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Posted - 2015.10.28 16:47:44 -
[6] - Quote
Thank you for posting this info.
I agree, not everyone runs missions for SOE in 0.5 systems, declining a majority of missions in order to get Burner missions. Also not everybody does mission blitzing.
In my opinion what you posted is much more feasible, basically the normal average for most players who run level 4 missions.
Thanks again.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
488
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Posted - 2015.10.28 17:18:47 -
[7] - Quote
Choosing to do it this way is one thing, and that's down to how you want to play. More power to you for making an informed decision.
However denial that a certain something is even possible is something completely different.
You are free to choose what is 'normal', within the realm of possibility and nothing and no one is stopping you, only yourself.
A guide to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1knVqZEH8qFY0eT44nMEFwcKd3t4PbgcZeuv58SVUxsI/edit?usp=sharing
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4714
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Posted - 2015.10.28 20:07:58 -
[8] - Quote
Are the gates more golden on the other (SoE) side? I was understandably curious, so I ran a little experiment. I choose a 0.5 SoE hub way out in the middle of nowhere (or at least it sure felt like it) and spent the next hour ferrying various assets to their new forward operating base. Here were the results in a rather short running time of 0:41.
Total ISK: 51,118,687 Total Salvage: 8,330,000 (one implant) Total LP: ~23,000 (1400 ISK/LP conversion) Grand Total: 91,648,687 / 0:41 or 134.1m ISK/hour
All missions were within 1-4 jumps of port with the same "shoot everything" premise. Here was the short list: GÇó Dread Pirate Scarlet (looted implant) GÇó Stop The Thief GÇó Vengeance (this one took forever and probably skewed the results)
Why the small list? Two words: travel time (I was almost starting to nod off in warp)... Even with a warp speed that exceeded 4.0 AU/s and a 6-second align time, I spent what felt like an eternity travelling (even to the 1-jump missions). From what I recall about the main SoE hub that most players frequent, this hub offers missions with fewer jumps on average. Unless you have a very fast ship (minimum warp speed of 4.0 AU/s), you're going to find these very frustrating.
So are the SoE gates really more golden? Yes, it would seem that you can earn at least an additional 10-25m ISK/hour more in SoE space (provided you can meet the travel component). There is a trade-off, of course - namely that you'll be sacrificing damage application, tank and capacitor (among others) for warp speed. And you'll be quite a ways off the major trading hubs, which means you'll need a relatively fast transport to ferry your munitions and loot. As SoE systems are substantially more populated, there is a higher risk of ganking if you're running any blingy fits. And "shoot and loot" scenarios will find that there are more than a few players who have made a career of actively scanning down stray MTUs and killing them.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4714
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Posted - 2015.10.29 01:04:37 -
[9] - Quote
Sacrificed some damage and damage application for a 20% boost in warp speed and inertia. Despite getting four (4) Zazzmatazz and Damsel missions I didn't get the juicy implant. Sometimes you get Bob; sometimes Bob gets you...
Mission completion list (rounded up to nearest 30 seconds): GÇó 2x Zazzmatazz (0:04 and 0:4:30 to complete) GÇó Stop the Thief (0:05) GÇó Zazzmatazz (0:04:30) GÇó Attack of the Drones (0:07:30) GÇó Gurista Spies (0:07:00) GÇó Angel Extravaganza (0:19:00) GÇó Damsel (0:07:00)
ISK total: 59,553,186 Salvage total: 1,050,000 LP total: 39,467 (x1200 ISK/LP) Grand total: 107.9m ISK/ 00:59 or 109.7m ISK/hour.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
163
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Posted - 2015.10.29 01:15:45 -
[10] - Quote
So let me see if I got this right.
You used 3 players to make about 100M ISK?
It seems like to me each player, or character, earned about 33M ISK.
That may be another way to look at it, but that's what I see.
-Kirst
Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4714
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Posted - 2015.10.29 02:15:06 -
[11] - Quote
Ion Kirst wrote:So let me see if I got this right. You used 3 players to make about 100M ISK/ hour? It seems like to me each player, or character, earned about 33M ISK / hour. That may be another way to look at it, but that's what I see. Correct. That's definitely one way to look at it. Another is that the other two characters boost your ISK/hour as you'd only be capable of achieving less than half this with a single character for this particular play style. Even with the loot and salvage route it's hard to break the 60m ISK/hour mark. Still another way is that if I play for an hour each day I'm able to easily PLEX the cost of the two additional characters.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Garrett Osinov
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2015.10.29 10:44:39 -
[12] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Ion Kirst wrote:So let me see if I got this right. You used 3 players to make about 100M ISK/ hour? It seems like to me each player, or character, earned about 33M ISK / hour. That may be another way to look at it, but that's what I see. Correct. That's definitely one way to look at it. Another is that the other two characters boost your ISK/hour as you'd only be capable of achieving less than half this with a single character for this particular play style. Even with the loot and salvage route it's hard to break the 60m ISK/hour mark. Still another way is that if I play for an hour each day I'm able to easily PLEX the cost of the two additional characters.
If you enjoy doing those missions, then I guess it is ok. But if you do those missions to make isk, this is completely wrong.
It is been said many many times: BLITZ and do burners. You can make way more then you do even in high sec. |
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
163
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Posted - 2015.10.29 14:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Ion Kirst wrote:So let me see if I got this right. You used 3 players to make about 100M ISK/ hour? It seems like to me each player, or character, earned about 33M ISK / hour. That may be another way to look at it, but that's what I see. Correct. That's definitely one way to look at it. Another is that the other two characters boost your ISK/hour as you'd only be capable of achieving less than half this with a single character for this particular play style. Even with the loot and salvage route it's hard to break the 60m ISK/hour mark. Still another way is that if I play for an hour each day I'm able to easily PLEX the cost of the two additional characters.
OK, I understand that those three characters are all yours, so you made about 100M ISK per hour.
That is using 3 characters!
Sorry I'm kinda underwhelmed.
With only one character, I average about 56M ISK per hour. Which in itself is no big deal either.
What am I not seeing(?)
-Kirst
Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
489
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Posted - 2015.10.29 15:05:03 -
[14] - Quote
This is just information. Threads like these are there to inform, to say if you do X you get Y. That way newer players, or players who don't have that information can make an informed decision on what they want to do. Or even what's possible if you don't want to run burners/blitz/own a machariel, or if you have multiple characters, or if you don't want to run missions in certain areas etc.
That said if you don't agree with Y you can go try and do X and see if you get something different. Put your time where your mouth is
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4717
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Posted - 2015.10.29 19:42:42 -
[15] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:This is just information. Threads like these are there to inform, to say if you do X you get Y. That way newer players, or players who don't have that information can make an informed decision on what they want to do. Or even what's possible if you don't want to run burners/blitz/own a machariel, or if you have multiple characters, or if you don't want to run missions in certain areas etc. Exactly this. In fact, I'd welcome and look forward to ways to improve upon any results.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4728
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Posted - 2015.11.11 00:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Updated this with a newer run. Here are the results:
Standard non-SOE L4 missions (0.6 system). No blitzing or Burners - kill everything (even turrets). Minimal looting (only where there's a chance to drop an implant). Triple Rattlesnake setup in mostly T2 fits (you need to be "Johnny on the Spot" in selecting targets and applying damage). Note that the total is a bit lower as two of the characters only had Security/Negotiation III.
ISK: 94.18m Salvage: 85.2m LP: 38,406 (1200 ISK/LP) Grand total: 225.48m / 1:28 = 153.73m ISK/hour
Cons: Takes three characters. Pros: You can make a lot more ISK/hour with three characters - period.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
229
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Posted - 2015.11.11 06:38:09 -
[17] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:This is just information. Threads like these are there to inform, to say if you do X you get Y. That way newer players, or players who don't have that information can make an informed decision on what they want to do. Or even what's possible if you don't want to run burners/blitz/own a machariel, or if you have multiple characters, or if you don't want to run missions in certain areas etc. Exactly this. In fact, I'd welcome and look forward to ways to improve upon any results.
What he's saying is that he can make that 100 mill an hour running anoms in null sec using only one Rattlesnake.
It's still good that high-sec does have a income stream. The cons are is that it requires multi-chars and not completely consistent unlike null sec that provides a constant isk faucet running anoms while making 100 mill isk an hour using only one char. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4728
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Posted - 2015.11.11 07:28:53 -
[18] - Quote
Well, it comes down to risk vs. reward.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16903
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Posted - 2015.11.11 11:23:59 -
[19] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:
What he's saying is that he can make that 100 mill an hour running anoms in null sec using only one Rattlesnake.
It's still good that high-sec does have a income stream. The cons are is that it requires multi-chars and not completely consistent unlike null sec that provides a constant isk faucet running anoms while making 100 mill isk an hour using only one char.
If you blitz highsec level 3 missions using a t2 fitted mach you can hit 80-90 mil an hour and you can do this all day every day without interruptions like you get in null. The best income right now via shooting comes from highsec, the only reason anoms are done is because you can run them afk although afk income will take a large hit when carriers lose their ability to use drones next year.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
542
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Posted - 2015.11.11 11:32:47 -
[20] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:
What he's saying is that he can make that 100 mill an hour running anoms in null sec using only one Rattlesnake.
It's still good that high-sec does have a income stream. The cons are is that it requires multi-chars and not completely consistent unlike null sec that provides a constant isk faucet running anoms while making 100 mill isk an hour using only one char.
If you blitz highsec level 3 missions using a t2 fitted mach you can hit 80-90 mil an hour and you can do this all day every day without interruptions like you get in null. The best income right now via shooting comes from highsec, the only reason anoms are done is because you can run them afk although afk income will take a large hit when carriers lose their ability to use drones next year. We've actually been having trouble hitting the 80-90mill mark with lv3s. Lv4s/burners can net you 200mill+ but requires about 3-4 times the initial isk capital that a carrier would and unless you want to replace ships regularly you can only run a single character. more and you'd end up exploding ships due to mistakes. The advantage in null is you can stack toons without much penalty.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
702
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Posted - 2015.11.11 13:05:32 -
[21] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:
What he's saying is that he can make that 100 mill an hour running anoms in null sec using only one Rattlesnake.
It's still good that high-sec does have a income stream. The cons are is that it requires multi-chars and not completely consistent unlike null sec that provides a constant isk faucet running anoms while making 100 mill isk an hour using only one char.
If you blitz highsec level 3 missions using a t2 fitted mach you can hit 80-90 mil an hour and you can do this all day every day without interruptions like you get in null. The best income right now via shooting comes from highsec, the only reason anoms are done is because you can run them afk although afk income will take a large hit when carriers lose their ability to use drones next year.
And in Null you and your alts can run anoms semi-afk making 100mil per hour of direct isk never having to deal with markets, LP conversions, building, hauling and you always know when someone comes into local they are there to kill you, instead of the anonymity of the masses that comes with guessing who the gank alt is in high sec.
So tell me again what they are doing to nerf Rattlesnakes?
CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.
40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16903
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Posted - 2015.11.11 13:13:33 -
[22] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
And in Null you and your alts can run anoms semi-afk making 100mil per hour of direct isk never having to deal with markets, LP conversions, building, hauling and you always know when someone comes into local they are there to kill you, instead of the anonymity of the masses that comes with guessing who the gank alt is in high sec.
So tell me again what they are doing to nerf Rattlesnakes?
To hit that income in null requires a ratting carrier or pimp vindicator and no interruption. Converting LP takes no time at all, building is automatic and takes all of 5 minutes to set up, hauling also takes very little time once a week or even once a month and selling can be done remotely while you run missions. Chances of being ganked in highsec are next to nill unless you officer fit.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
542
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Posted - 2015.11.11 13:28:13 -
[23] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:
And in Null you and your alts can run anoms semi-afk making 100mil per hour of direct isk never having to deal with markets, LP conversions, building, hauling and you always know when someone comes into local they are there to kill you, instead of the anonymity of the masses that comes with guessing who the gank alt is in high sec.
So tell me again what they are doing to nerf Rattlesnakes?
To hit that income in null requires a ratting carrier or pimp vindicator and no interruption. Converting LP takes no time at all, building is automatic and takes all of 5 minutes to set up, hauling also takes very little time once a week or even once a month and selling can be done remotely while you run missions. Chances of being ganked in highsec are next to nill unless you officer fit. Quite a few errors there. I thought Goons prided themselves on accuracy.
First off, while converting of LP does indeed not take any time it still needs to be shipped to the market. I myself am happy to take a hit to my isk/h and have other people do the hauling but that is something to take into account. Hauling ships regularly get ganked between the various mission hubs, I tend to see multiple wrecks on gates any time I go off to Amarr or Jita, dodged a few attempts myself as well. Remember, in HS you're not protected, you're avenged. In NS you're protected. Big difference
If you look at the best system to do these kinds of things, Lanngisi for example, it is not in the same region as either of the two biggest trade hubs (Amarr and Jita) so no, you can't do selling remotely either.
Ganking of faction and dedspace fit mission boats is a regular occurrence, as in daily. No really check the killboards. Don't need officer fit ships to become a gank target.
Nullsec income is almost exclusively raw isk while Lv4 ission blitzing is almost no raw isk once you convert the LP/isk into faction modules. This is ok though because of the somewhat more difficult moving of stuff from null to high. It does make it a dangerous proposition to just flat out increase isk rewards in null.
You also haven't addressed the issue that to reach the 200mill+ you're looking at 6-8bill in initial capital while in null you're only looking at a 2bill to 2.5bill ratting carrier for 100mill was it? just add more alts, that's what makes null different and that's ok too.
While I appreciate the fine art of Goon misdirection and misinformation and propaganda, all of the arguments have been covered dozens of times and is not what this thread is about.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
702
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Posted - 2015.11.11 13:44:08 -
[24] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:
And in Null you and your alts can run anoms semi-afk making 100mil per hour of direct isk never having to deal with markets, LP conversions, building, hauling and you always know when someone comes into local they are there to kill you, instead of the anonymity of the masses that comes with guessing who the gank alt is in high sec.
So tell me again what they are doing to nerf Rattlesnakes?
To hit that income in null requires a ratting carrier or pimp vindicator and no interruption either from enemy ships entering local or competition from blues for the limited anoms. Converting LP takes no time at all, building is automatic and takes all of 5 minutes to set up, hauling also takes very little time once a week or even once a month and selling can be done remotely while you run missions. Chances of being ganked in highsec are next to nill unless you officer fit.
With two characters in T2 Rattles you can easily hit 80-100mil isk per hour each in Null running Anoms. That initial investment is well under that to run Burners in efficiency and a fraction of the fit needed to run Incursions well. You will also make as much as both of those activities.
Burners require you to be at the mercy of the LP market and Jita market. It requires a little more critical thinking and effort. Null sec gives direct wallet ticks.
Incursions end every few days and often there is a period where there are none to run. Also if you get unlucky with your contests you end up simply fueling some other guys numbers instead of your own. It also requires you to deal with LP and markets.
So, spin it anyway you want. You have the ability to make easier, less effort isk in relative safety of your intel channels and blue donut pacts with lesser investment and the occasional big score pay day. But you don't want to hear that, so I am talking to a rock.
CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.
40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16903
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Posted - 2015.11.11 18:30:43 -
[25] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Quite a few errors there. I thought Goons prided themselves on accuracy. First off, while converting of LP does indeed not take any time it still needs to be shipped to the market. I myself am happy to take a hit to my isk/h and have other people do the hauling but that is something to take into account. Hauling ships regularly get ganked between the various mission hubs, I tend to see multiple wrecks on gates any time I go off to Amarr or Jita, dodged a few attempts myself as well. Remember, in HS you're not protected, you're avenged. In NS you're protected. Big difference
I use a speed fitted blockade runner, warps like an intercepter and its impossible to catch in highsec if flown correctly.
Anize Oramara wrote: If you look at the best system to do these kinds of things, Lanngisi for example, it is not in the same region as either of the two biggest trade hubs (Amarr and Jita) so no, you can't do selling remotely either.
Use an alt to sell, either on the same account or alt account. Doesn't even take 5 minutes to update sell orders.
Anize Oramara wrote: Ganking of faction and dedspace fit mission boats is a regular occurrence, as in daily. No really check the killboards. Don't need officer fit ships to become a gank target.
You dont need those mods, the only bling you ever need are faction damage mods and even those are optional. Bling is simply not needed and t2 mission running ships with a smattering of faction damage mods are simply not going to be a viable target. You are more likely to die by falling asleep running the mission than being ganked.
Anize Oramara wrote: Nullsec income is almost exclusively raw isk while Lv4 ission blitzing is almost no raw isk once you convert the LP/isk into faction modules. This is ok though because of the somewhat more difficult moving of stuff from null to high. It does make it a dangerous proposition to just flat out increase isk rewards in null.
To get the very best income you have to use the ESS, which rewards you partly in LP and unlike highsec it can be raided/blown up.
Anize Oramara wrote: You also haven't addressed the issue that to reach the 200mill+ you're looking at 6-8bill in initial capital while in null you're only looking at a 2bill to 2.5bill ratting carrier for 100mill was it? just add more alts, that's what makes null different and that's ok too.
While I appreciate the fine art of Goon misdirection and misinformation and propaganda, all of the arguments have been covered dozens of times and is not what this thread is about.
To get the anoms requires holding sov and deploying infrastructure which are a lot more expensive plus you have to defend it, something highsec doesn't need to worry about. When you start defending your mission running system with 60 billion isk worth of assets then you can start comparing prices.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16903
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Posted - 2015.11.11 18:43:38 -
[26] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote: With two characters in T2 Rattles you can easily hit 80-100mil isk per hour each in Null running Anoms. That initial investment is well under that to run Burners in efficiency and a fraction of the fit needed to run Incursions well. You will also make as much as both of those activities.
If you are earning the same then clearly burners and level 4s are the better option because you get concord protection while running them and no interruptions or competition.
Market McSelling Alt wrote: Burners require you to be at the mercy of the LP market and Jita market. It requires a little more critical thinking and effort. Null sec gives direct wallet ticks.
I have a tool that tells me instantly what to spend my LP on.
Market McSelling Alt wrote: Incursions end every few days and often there is a period where there are none to run. Also if you get unlucky with your contests you end up simply fueling some other guys numbers instead of your own. It also requires you to deal with LP and markets.
Yet incursion income dwarfs the total mission payouts despite the fact that only a fraction of people run incursions compared to missions.
Market McSelling Alt wrote: So, spin it anyway you want. You have the ability to make easier, less effort isk in relative safety of your intel channels and blue donut pacts with lesser investment and the occasional big score pay day. But you don't want to hear that, so I am talking to a rock.
When was the last time you fought a trillion isk war against someone else to control your highsec missions?
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
543
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Posted - 2015.11.11 18:50:32 -
[27] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: Use an alt to sell, either on the same account or alt account. Doesn't even take 5 minutes to update sell orders.
If you use the same account then you can't update sell orders and mission at the same time. If you use an alt then your isk/h is halved whereas if you use an alt in null your isk is doubled. You're changing from what you originally said, moving the goalposts.
baltec1 wrote: You dont need those mods, the only bling you ever need are faction damage mods and even those are optional. Bling is simply not needed and t2 mission running ships with a smattering of faction damage mods are simply not going to be a viable target. You are more likely to die by falling asleep running the mission than being ganked.
I agree completely, you don't need those mods, however that's not the point now is it? Ships that are NOT officer fit are ganked daily in just the system I mission from. There are dozens of other mission hubs and the surrounding systems. You're changing from what you originally said, moving the goalposts.
baltec1 wrote: To get the very best income you have to use the ESS, which rewards you partly in LP and unlike highsec it can be raided/blown up.
I am well aware of the ESS and exactly how it functions, used it for months when I was in null. The LP is gives is a small amount and your income isn't impacted by much even if you decide to not use it. In fact your income is eventually increased if you use it long enough over what you were making before the ESS iirc. The majority of your income however is still in raw isk.
baltec1 wrote: To get the anoms requires holding sov and deploying infrastructure which are a lot more expensive plus you have to defend it, something highsec doesn't need to worry about. When you start defending your mission running system with 60 billion isk worth of assets then you can start comparing prices.
You're in an organized alliance with thousands of members with Tax, Moon goo, supers and all kinds of other toys that help support that infrastructure. I get it, null is different to HS, that's what I've been saying. Part of that is that it's easier to ramp up income to well over what is possible in HS. And that's FINE because you need to be able to do that. I'm not advocating a nerf to null so untwist those undies.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12916
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Posted - 2015.11.11 18:52:12 -
[28] - Quote
Firstly, nice seeing you the other night in Wicked Creek Baltec. I took a potshot at your Mega hoping to be on your kill mail, then you up and didn't die. Next time Baltec, next time...
And second, I thing you know it's no use arguing with these people. Like Malcanis likes to say (which was lifted off some dead guy) GÇ£It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.GÇ¥ . The imbalance is well documented (even recently, with CCP Quant expressing surprise at how few people Incursion why also generating the 3rd largest isk faucet).
I've described it myself time and again, but they don't want to hear it, because it doesn't fit their prejudices (against null sec). So i stopped talking to them about it, and started talking directly to CCP at player events. At the end of the day, randoms on some forum don't have to acknowledge objective reality. It would be nice to see some honesty for a change, but at the end of the day, it's not nessacary. |
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
543
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Posted - 2015.11.11 18:57:56 -
[29] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: If you are earning the same then clearly burners and level 4s are the better option because you get concord protection while running them and no interruptions or competition.
Concord is not protection, it's punishment. if someone wants to gank you concord will not stop them. Come on, this is basic Eve stuff.
baltec1 wrote: Yet incursion income dwarfs the total mission payouts despite the fact that only a fraction of people run incursions compared to missions.
Incursion income is a little messed up but while a small pool of people are profiting hugely from it (probably plenty of nullsec player's alts) the effect on eve as a whole is not bad enough to justify canning it completely. CCP is already working on it from what I've been able to gather. I have my doubts if it'll work since if the replacement to Sansha incursions aren't profitable enough then no one's gonna bother running them.
baltec1 wrote: When was the last time you fought a trillion isk war against someone else to control your highsec missions?
What, you mean as a solo player? Come on, you're not even comparing two different types of food here never mind apples to apples.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
543
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Posted - 2015.11.11 19:03:06 -
[30] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Firstly, nice seeing you the other night in Wicked Creek Baltec. I took a potshot at your Mega hoping to be on your kill mail, then you up and didn't die. Next time Baltec, next time...
And second, I thing you know it's no use arguing with these people. Like Malcanis likes to say (which was lifted off some dead guy) GÇ£It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.GÇ¥ . The imbalance is well documented (even recently, with CCP Quant expressing surprise at how few people Incursion why also generating the 3rd largest isk faucet).
I've described it myself time and again, but they don't want to hear it, because it doesn't fit their prejudices (against null sec). So i stopped talking to them about it, and started talking directly to CCP at player events. At the end of the day, randoms on some forum don't have to acknowledge objective reality. It would be nice to see some honesty for a change, but at the end of the day, it's not nessacary. That sure is an impressive amount of character attacks on the whole of hi-sec you managed there Jenn .
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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