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Mitt Rawmoney Rawmoney
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2015.11.04 21:54:16 -
[1] - Quote
The Concept is pretty simple:
- Mid slot Module - Increases Mining laser range by x%
- Drawback
This module is self-balancing in the sense that it requires a mid-slot and inadvertently reduces your ehp or forces you to drop another utility module such as a survey scanner.
I think this would be a very interesting mod that would improve the quality of life for miners. |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2814
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Posted - 2015.11.04 22:02:21 -
[2] - Quote
might be best as a rig, with a cap use penalty |
Mitt Rawmoney Rawmoney
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2015.11.04 22:16:17 -
[3] - Quote
Yea it could be a rig |
Mitt Rawmoney Rawmoney
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2015.11.04 22:26:33 -
[4] - Quote
I think a rig with the drawback of reduced maximum shield capacity would be more balanced as not all mining barges would be effected by the capacitor penalty (i.e. skiffs / procurers) hulks would be hit the hardest due to the fact that they use 3 strip miners |
Wolf Lafisques
Maraque Enterprises Just let it happen
23
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Posted - 2015.11.05 00:20:15 -
[5] - Quote
Mitt Rawmoney Rawmoney wrote:I think a rig with the drawback of reduced maximum shield capacity would be more balanced as not all mining barges would be effected by the capacitor penalty (i.e. skiffs / procurers) hulks would be hit the hardest due to the fact that they use 3 strip miners
But then you'll get all the care bears crying about how it'll be easier for gankers to kill them. This pleases me.
Supported.
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
989
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Posted - 2015.11.05 02:58:15 -
[6] - Quote
Choosing between optimizing weapons in exchange for lowered tank has always been an option for damage boats. I don't see why range can't be a factor for mining hulls as well..
Supported. |
Felsusguy
Aliastra Gallente Federation
373
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Posted - 2015.11.05 06:07:25 -
[7] - Quote
Could very well be a low-slot module instead.
Alternatively, it could be a script for the Mining Laser Upgrade, replacing the yield bonus for a range bonus.
The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
990
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Posted - 2015.11.05 06:40:59 -
[8] - Quote
Felsusguy wrote:Could very well be a low-slot module instead.
Alternatively, it could be a script for the Mining Laser Upgrade, replacing the yield bonus for a range bonus.
Ehh. Low slots have always been specific to damage mods(ie yield), while mids and rigs focus primarily on range/tracking. Sure, there are low slot mods to buff range AND tracking, but they don't get used that often, unless you're running short on mids and have a spare low.
Also,'if they're mid slot modules, they can be active mods, thus reducing the need for fitting or tanking related drawbacks. |
Felsusguy
Aliastra Gallente Federation
374
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Posted - 2015.11.05 07:45:20 -
[9] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Felsusguy wrote:Could very well be a low-slot module instead.
Alternatively, it could be a script for the Mining Laser Upgrade, replacing the yield bonus for a range bonus. Ehh. Low slots have always been specific to damage mods(ie yield), while mids and rigs focus primarily on range/tracking. Sure, there are low slot mods to buff range AND tracking, but they don't get used that often, unless you're running short on mids and have a spare low. Also,'if they're mid slot modules, they can be active mods, thus reducing the need for fitting or tanking related drawbacks. The main reason they're used less often is because they are less useful.
Regardless, there's no reason a low-slot module couldn't be active (damage control comes to mind), nor would a useful module necessarily require drawbacks. Tracking enhancers and turret damage mods have none, and are less CPU intensive than mining laser upgrades are currently.
The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1294
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Posted - 2015.11.05 13:19:54 -
[10] - Quote
You guys do know that this means the base ranges on the miners would have to be nerffed forcing you to use one of these mods to get the same range
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Felsusguy
Aliastra Gallente Federation
377
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Posted - 2015.11.05 13:25:03 -
[11] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:You guys do know that this means the base ranges on the miners would have to be nerffed forcing you to use one of these mods to get the same range No, that is not what that means. Even CCP couldn't possibly be that dumb.
Other modules receive that treatment for balance reasons. But mining range never hurt anyone.
The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
237
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Posted - 2015.11.05 13:32:59 -
[12] - Quote
Felsusguy wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:Felsusguy wrote:Could very well be a low-slot module instead.
Alternatively, it could be a script for the Mining Laser Upgrade, replacing the yield bonus for a range bonus. Ehh. Low slots have always been specific to damage mods(ie yield), while mids and rigs focus primarily on range/tracking. Sure, there are low slot mods to buff range AND tracking, but they don't get used that often, unless you're running short on mids and have a spare low. Also,'if they're mid slot modules, they can be active mods, thus reducing the need for fitting or tanking related drawbacks. The main reason they're used less often is because they are less useful. Regardless, there's no reason a low-slot module couldn't be active (damage control comes to mind), nor would a useful module necessarily require drawbacks. Tracking enhancers and turret damage mods have none, and are less CPU intensive than mining laser upgrades are currently.
dmg mods increase rate of fire which increases cap use. |
Felsusguy
Aliastra Gallente Federation
377
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Posted - 2015.11.05 13:41:11 -
[13] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:Felsusguy wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:Felsusguy wrote:Could very well be a low-slot module instead.
Alternatively, it could be a script for the Mining Laser Upgrade, replacing the yield bonus for a range bonus. Ehh. Low slots have always been specific to damage mods(ie yield), while mids and rigs focus primarily on range/tracking. Sure, there are low slot mods to buff range AND tracking, but they don't get used that often, unless you're running short on mids and have a spare low. Also,'if they're mid slot modules, they can be active mods, thus reducing the need for fitting or tanking related drawbacks. The main reason they're used less often is because they are less useful. Regardless, there's no reason a low-slot module couldn't be active (damage control comes to mind), nor would a useful module necessarily require drawbacks. Tracking enhancers and turret damage mods have none, and are less CPU intensive than mining laser upgrades are currently. dmg mods increase rate of fire which increases cap use. Not even a drawback.
The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1296
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Posted - 2015.11.05 14:25:07 -
[14] - Quote
Felsusguy wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:You guys do know that this means the base ranges on the miners would have to be nerffed forcing you to use one of these mods to get the same range No, that is not what that means. Even CCP couldn't possibly be that dumb. Other modules receive that treatment for balance reasons. But mining range never hurt anyone.
Currently the range on the lazers is balanced to reach their max when combined with max rorq boost and max hull level.
likewise mining anomos and belts are balanced around the max range achievable in that space.
the range of mining lasers were not just picked arbitrarily there is balance behind it
the longer my lasers the more ore i can mine in my sphere of influence
the more ore i can mine the less likely i will run out of ore in my sphere of influence before adding more ore to it by moving
this will overall improve my yield
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Felsusguy
Aliastra Gallente Federation
378
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Posted - 2015.11.05 14:50:39 -
[15] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Felsusguy wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:You guys do know that this means the base ranges on the miners would have to be nerffed forcing you to use one of these mods to get the same range No, that is not what that means. Even CCP couldn't possibly be that dumb. Other modules receive that treatment for balance reasons. But mining range never hurt anyone. Currently the range on the lazers is balanced to reach their max when combined with max rorq boost and max hull level. likewise mining anomos and belts are balanced around the max range achievable in that space. the range of mining lasers were not just picked arbitrarily there is balance behind it the longer my lasers the more ore i can mine in my sphere of influence the more ore i can mine the less likely i will run out of ore in my sphere of influence before adding more ore to it by moving this will overall improve my yield By a veritably small amount. If CCP were concerned about a moderate boost in mining range, they would not have made the Mining Laser Field Enhancement link so obscenely effective. In fact, I wouldn't even mind if they nerfed that in exchange for a local range boosting module. Do I really need my range nearly doubled from a single link?
And even then, if they made it a script to the Mining Laser Upgrade module then they wouldn't "need" to nerf anything, since forgoing yield would be enough of a balancing factor.
The way you format your posts is an eyesore, by the way.
The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2380
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Posted - 2015.11.05 15:24:44 -
[16] - Quote
Felsusguy wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:You guys do know that this means the base ranges on the miners would have to be nerffed forcing you to use one of these mods to get the same range No, that is not what that means. Even CCP couldn't possibly be that dumb. Other modules receive that treatment for balance reasons. But mining range never hurt anyone.
Remember the freighter change? People though exactly as you are now when proposing fittings for them. See where it got us. |
Felsusguy
Aliastra Gallente Federation
378
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Posted - 2015.11.05 15:31:21 -
[17] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Felsusguy wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:You guys do know that this means the base ranges on the miners would have to be nerffed forcing you to use one of these mods to get the same range No, that is not what that means. Even CCP couldn't possibly be that dumb. Other modules receive that treatment for balance reasons. But mining range never hurt anyone. Remember the freighter change? People though exactly as you are now when proposing fittings for them. See where it got us. What, did they think they freighters were going to be exactly the same as before, but better?
A range upgrade module would take up room for other modules, and theoretically would only be a quality of life improvement. It is not the same as giving three extra slots to a ship that previously had none.
The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2380
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Posted - 2015.11.05 15:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
Felsusguy wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Felsusguy wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:You guys do know that this means the base ranges on the miners would have to be nerffed forcing you to use one of these mods to get the same range No, that is not what that means. Even CCP couldn't possibly be that dumb. Other modules receive that treatment for balance reasons. But mining range never hurt anyone. Remember the freighter change? People though exactly as you are now when proposing fittings for them. See where it got us. What, did they think they freighters were going to be exactly the same as before, but better? A range upgrade module would take up room for other modules, and theoretically would only be a quality of life improvement. It is not the same as giving three extra slots to a ship that previously had none.
They though freighter would keep the same stats + added slots. Instead, they got nerfed stats + slots so you need to use the mods that have drawback to get the stats you used to have.
Your mining ships would then get a nerf to range with 1 mods required to get the range abck and 2 or more to gain any range over what you had. |
Felsusguy
Aliastra Gallente Federation
378
|
Posted - 2015.11.05 15:42:10 -
[19] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:They though freighter would keep the same stats + added slots. Instead, they got nerfed stats + slots so you need to use the mods that have drawback to get the stats you used to have.
Your mining ships would then get a nerf to range with 1 mods required to get the range abck and 2 or more to gain any range over what you had. The two scenarios are entirely different, as I explained before.
That said, I wouldn't even mind if they nerfed this rather than the modules themselves.
The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2380
|
Posted - 2015.11.05 16:46:59 -
[20] - Quote
Felsusguy wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:They though freighter would keep the same stats + added slots. Instead, they got nerfed stats + slots so you need to use the mods that have drawback to get the stats you used to have.
Your mining ships would then get a nerf to range with 1 mods required to get the range abck and 2 or more to gain any range over what you had. The two scenarios are entirely different, as I explained before. That said, I wouldn't even mind if they nerfed this rather than the modules themselves.
They will nerf the base stats because that's how they proceed. Accept that and then think hard if you want to push for that suggestion. |
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Felsusguy
Aliastra Gallente Federation
386
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Posted - 2015.11.05 16:54:09 -
[21] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Felsusguy wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:They though freighter would keep the same stats + added slots. Instead, they got nerfed stats + slots so you need to use the mods that have drawback to get the stats you used to have.
Your mining ships would then get a nerf to range with 1 mods required to get the range abck and 2 or more to gain any range over what you had. The two scenarios are entirely different, as I explained before. That said, I wouldn't even mind if they nerfed this rather than the modules themselves. They will nerf the base stats because that's how they proceed. Accept that and then think hard if you want to push for that suggestion. Or I could disregard what you've said. That works, too.
The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
344
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Posted - 2015.11.07 06:43:30 -
[22] - Quote
I like the general idea +1 not sure if rig/module and what drawback....
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Amarisen Gream
Divine Demise Apocalypse Now.
148
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Posted - 2015.11.07 08:30:46 -
[23] - Quote
I think I would rather see Mining lasers and Strips have optimal and fall off ranges - then just make the current tracking computers/enhancers effect them.
"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger
All of his fury and rage.
He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels"
- The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1
DIDE- is open to new members
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Valkin Mordirc
1606
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Posted - 2015.11.07 09:57:30 -
[24] - Quote
If you wanted something to increase you max range on the mining lasers. They would probably nerf the range just so
Links+Enhancer+whatever else doesn't= Super Mining range.
I can't see why Mining lasers need a boost in range anyways, It seems rather silly unless you want to orbit 30km from a rock for whatever reason. I don't even see how it would helpful. If you looking to avoid someone trying to pop you, it's safer to hit d-scan or watch and and be aligned, and it only takes a few moments to set a bookmark.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Lotala
DLM Enterprises Advent of Fate
8
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Posted - 2015.11.07 11:03:15 -
[25] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:If you wanted something to increase you max range on the mining lasers. They would probably nerf the range just so
Links+Enhancer+whatever else doesn't= Super Mining range.
I can't see why Mining lasers need a boost in range anyways, It seems rather silly unless you want to orbit 30km from a rock for whatever reason. I don't even see how it would helpful. If you looking to avoid someone trying to pop you, it's safer to hit d-scan or watch and and be aligned, and it only takes a few moments to set a bookmark.
It will probably be some kinda in between. They will probably balance out so that with out it your range will be about 10-25% of what it was before the change and with it you range is about 10-25% about the original. A good compromise makes no one happy. |
Wolf Lafisques
Maraque Enterprises Just let it happen
24
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Posted - 2015.11.09 00:14:06 -
[26] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:If you wanted something to increase you max range on the mining lasers. They would probably nerf the range just so
Links+Enhancer+whatever else doesn't= Super Mining range.
I can't see why Mining lasers need a boost in range anyways, It seems rather silly unless you want to orbit 30km from a rock for whatever reason. I don't even see how it would helpful. If you looking to avoid someone trying to pop you, it's safer to hit d-scan or watch and and be aligned, and it only takes a few moments to set a bookmark.
I kinda feel like one of the ideas behind this might be consolidation of jet cans. If you can sit a little farther out and hit more rocks, you won't have as many jet cans spread out so far. Sure, you could just use a tractor beam or mtu, but those take time to pull things in, and idk anything about their range because I never use them.
I also kinda feel like you should probably be mining in a fleet if you are mining so much that you have cans set up all the way across the belt. If if you're in a fleet, you wouldn't need the proposed module/rig because there are mining boosts.
I still support the idea simply because of the reduced tank efficiency. I hate the way miners cry about gankers, so I support anything convenience to a miner that increases their risk of getting ganked. I think another good draw back to add would be that it reduces ore collected per cycle, but the roid still depletes at the same rate. "Greater distances increase the chance of losing mined ore in transit to the ship" or "the beam is weakened by the extreme distance, causing some mined ore to be lost to the void of space". Some bs like that. Lol. The price for their convenience would be that they are softer targets for gankers and can't mine as efficiently.
Basically, I support this idea as long as it doesn't alleviate miners of risk while giving them equal or greater rewards.
Edit: The module/rig should not stack with mining boosts. Miners can have one or the other, but shouldn't have both. |
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
475
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Posted - 2015.11.09 04:55:21 -
[27] - Quote
I like the idea, but others are right that the current ranges are balanced around the ore belts. You aren't supposed to be able to get an entire belt in your range without a fleet (links) or some expensive implants (Harvest set).
Make it a rig, and reduce the range of lasers by 10%.
Make the T1 version of the rig increase range by 20%, the T2 by 25%. Instead of reducing shield, though, make it reduce yield / cycle by 15% for the T1 and 20% for the T2, with the drawbacks reduced by the standard 10% per level (so at level V, the yield reduction would be 7.5% on the T1 version and 10% for the T2). This would make the range with the T1 version 8% higher than currently, and the T2 version 12.5%.
You're getting a wider range, but lower yield. Your options are to not use the rig, mine faster, and have to move more often, or use the rig, mine slower, and sit where you're at for longer.
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