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Acirimis Rockhound
3
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Posted - 2015.11.04 22:00:20 -
[1] - Quote
So I was doing some EFT stuff and a certain CRUISER fit got me thinking.... What would be better? To tank 1k dps with no AB or tank 740 dps with a 100mn AB. Let's just say that for both fits I would be constantly moving and I was keeping a high transversal for both. Any links that can better explain sig tanking would also be appreciated! |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
12709
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Posted - 2015.11.04 22:24:34 -
[2] - Quote
100mn ab ham legion is awesome "LOL neuts, LOL webs"
she turns like a semi-detached three bedroom house (a fast one granted).
really need to fork out for a Core C-Type though (assuming we are talking about t3's) otherwise its a cap thirsty fecking whoure little intense on the capacitor.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
297
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Posted - 2015.11.04 22:34:18 -
[3] - Quote
100MN AB Navy Vexors are a pretty standard newbie-Ratting fit.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
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Acirimis Rockhound
3
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Posted - 2015.11.04 22:36:36 -
[4] - Quote
Sooo, neither of you really answered my question lol... It's either an a) or b) kind of answer |
Do Little
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
228
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Posted - 2015.11.04 22:42:53 -
[5] - Quote
On the plus side an oversize AB lets you go nearly as fast as a MWD without the signature bloom. You will be very difficult to hit. On the minus side you'll need to use some slots for engineering mods/rigs to meet the grid/cpu/cap requirement which will reduce your dps and tank. You also take a major hit to agility. Probably works better on a battlecruiser - I imagine the fit is pretty extreme on a cruiser. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2415
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Posted - 2015.11.04 23:02:31 -
[6] - Quote
Acirimis Rockhound wrote:So I was doing some EFT stuff and a certain CRUISER fit got me thinking.... What would be better? To tank 1k dps with no AB or tank 740 dps with a 100mn AB. Let's just say that for both fits I would be constantly moving and I was keeping a high transversal for both. Any links that can better explain sig tanking would also be appreciated!
What's it for? |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3231
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Posted - 2015.11.05 00:07:06 -
[7] - Quote
Acirimis Rockhound wrote:Sooo, neither of you really answered my question lol... It's either an a) or b) kind of answer E: A Jar of Almonds.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1977
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Posted - 2015.11.05 01:32:22 -
[8] - Quote
Acirimis Rockhound wrote:Sooo, neither of you really answered my question lol... It's either an a) or b) kind of answer c. It depends!
in eve there are many variables and ways for those variables to interact. Perhaps the right answer is one of the above fits with a 10mn afterburner.
I'd say start by taking a look at the turret and missile damage formulas.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Acirimis Rockhound
3
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Posted - 2015.11.05 02:00:01 -
[9] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Acirimis Rockhound wrote:So I was doing some EFT stuff and a certain CRUISER fit got me thinking.... What would be better? To tank 1k dps with no AB or tank 740 dps with a 100mn AB. Let's just say that for both fits I would be constantly moving and I was keeping a high transversal for both. Any links that can better explain sig tanking would also be appreciated! What's it for?
DED sites, 6+ let's not over complicate this **** anymore than it already has lol.... I don't care about the infinite possibilities the majority of the EvE community wants to point out and what ships can do it better. Keep focused on the very simple question guys. Don't over complicate it, put the crack pipe down. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2415
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Posted - 2015.11.05 02:07:08 -
[10] - Quote
Acirimis Rockhound wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:Acirimis Rockhound wrote:So I was doing some EFT stuff and a certain CRUISER fit got me thinking.... What would be better? To tank 1k dps with no AB or tank 740 dps with a 100mn AB. Let's just say that for both fits I would be constantly moving and I was keeping a high transversal for both. Any links that can better explain sig tanking would also be appreciated! What's it for? DED sites, 6+ let's not over complicate this **** anymore than it already has lol.... I don't care about the infinite possibilities the majority of the EvE community wants to point out and what ships can do it better. Keep focused on the very simple question guys. Don't over complicate it, put the crack pipe down.
1000 is overtanked for 6s anyway (other than Serpentis I guess). It's too much for 7s. 8-10s... eh. Depends on how many web towers you have to deal with.
I think your bigger problem is going to be damage application anyhow. I suspect a 10MN will actually be a good bet but I suppose that would complicate things more than you want. |
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Paranoid Loyd
7403
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Posted - 2015.11.05 03:03:47 -
[11] - Quote
It's really not a simple question, before you elaborated the only correct answer was chainsaw's. If you ask a question, try not to **** on the people who are trying to help.
As Zhilia mentioned, when you use 100mn ab, damage application becomes a large issue. Can you let us know what kind of ship beyond "cruiser" you are going to use and preferably what fit you plan on using? As well as what space you are flying in? These variables all help determine the answer to the question.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Acirimis Rockhound
3
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Posted - 2015.11.05 04:23:44 -
[12] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:It's really not a simple question, before you elaborated the only correct answer was chainsaw's. If you ask a question, try not to **** on the people who are trying to help. Zhilia is one of the most knowledgeable people on this subject matter and if I were him I would have either not replied again at all or trolled you by giving you bad information.
As Zhilia mentioned, when you use 100mn ab, damage application becomes a large issue. Can you let us know what kind of ship beyond "cruiser" you are going to use and preferably what fit you plan on using? As well as what space you are flying in? These variables all help determine the answer to the question.
I think it really is a simple question, which one tanks better doesn't mean I'm worrying about damage projection or anything else unless I ask for something more general like, would this fit be good for x? Then saying something about damage projection would make sense. |
Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1979
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Posted - 2015.11.05 04:59:08 -
[13] - Quote
Acirimis Rockhound wrote:I think it really is a simple question, which one tanks better doesn't mean I'm worrying about damage projection, what space I'm in, what cruiser I'm in, or anything else unless I ask for something more general like, "would this fit be good for x?" Then saying something about damage projection would make sense. the one that tanks better is the one that doesn't explode! ask a simple question, get a simple answer.
overall the smaller your sig and the faster you go the less damage you take. avoiding or killing off webs/painters is important. Overall I'd say the 100mn cruiser tanks more, however I can't be sure if the extra tank on the other variant is worth it as I don't know if the extra tank is needed to kill off targets that web to get up to speed where speed tanking is viable.
10mn tengu can omnitank pretty much every lv4 mission with a deadspace small shield booster. I had my tank slowly going down and got confused one day and I realized I never started moving.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
515
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Posted - 2015.11.05 09:09:41 -
[14] - Quote
If you do not give all the variables, then you have zero guarantee that that answer you get will be correct. In eve all the variables interact. where a 100mn AB will work amazingly on a specific ship or in a specific site, it will kill you in another.
Either be happy with the (far too generous) answers you have received or give more information so a more accurate answer can be given.
It actually really does depend.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
225
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Posted - 2015.11.05 10:24:03 -
[15] - Quote
The only cruisers I can think of besides T3Cs that can tank 1k dps is either the Sacrilege, Onyx or Broadsword. In this case I'd go with the 10MN AB for the superior cap life.
The 100MN AB will give you a chance to escape if you get tackled by uninvited participants but you'll need to fit to some agility rigs or nanos to compensate for the poor maneuverability that comes with using oversize props. |
W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
393
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Posted - 2015.11.05 11:34:19 -
[16] - Quote
Acirimis Rockhound wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:It's really not a simple question, before you elaborated the only correct answer was chainsaw's. If you ask a question, try not to **** on the people who are trying to help. Zhilia is one of the most knowledgeable people on this subject matter and if I were him I would have either not replied again at all or trolled you by giving you bad information.
As Zhilia mentioned, when you use 100mn ab, damage application becomes a large issue. Can you let us know what kind of ship beyond "cruiser" you are going to use and preferably what fit you plan on using? As well as what space you are flying in? These variables all help determine the answer to the question. I think it really is a simple question, which one tanks better doesn't mean I'm worrying about damage projection, what space I'm in, what cruiser I'm in, or anything else unless I ask for something more general like, "would this fit be good for x?" Then saying something about damage projection would make sense.
Its not simple at all, now for pve in general yes, it tanks more. However in quite a few 6/10s there are webbing towers, so again it depends if you can kill them fast enough due to having the range or if you will just flop over and die. For pvp the answer cannot be answered at all.
Also, in most ships the 10mn version is better for pve then the 100mn one. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1301
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Posted - 2015.11.05 11:51:43 -
[17] - Quote
Acirimis Rockhound wrote:I think it really is a simple question, which one tanks better doesn't mean I'm worrying about damage projection, what space I'm in, what cruiser I'm in, or anything else unless I ask for something more general like, "would this fit be good for x?" Then saying something about damage projection would make sense.
You can't generally answer that, there's a variety of incoming damage profiles and some can be mitigated, some can't. It's a bit like "is this sansha tanked legion or that guristas tanked ishtar tanking better?", with "yes" being a correct answer. If you go to gank 2 RR-rattlesnakes with sentries, 100mn is a good call. If they got heavy drones, your 100mn just became 625-800PG of wasted fitting space. |
Ruvin
Out of Sight.
186
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Posted - 2015.11.06 17:00:36 -
[18] - Quote
Acirimis Rockhound wrote:So I was doing some EFT stuff and a certain CRUISER fit got me thinking.... What would be better? To tank 1k dps with no AB or tank 740 dps with a 100mn AB. Let's just say that for both fits I would be constantly moving and I was keeping a high transversal for both. Any links that can better explain sig tanking would also be appreciated!
the answer is probably neither of those but a third one . Tank 450 500 dps with 10ab . That covers most situations .
100 ab is for niche situations . no propulsion mod is almost always bad .
so answer "C"
Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
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Dr Cedric
Independent Miners Corporation Care Factor
123
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Posted - 2015.11.06 19:14:09 -
[19] - Quote
Acirimis Rockhound wrote:So I was doing some EFT stuff and a certain CRUISER fit got me thinking.... What would be better? To tank 1k dps with no AB or tank 740 dps with a 100mn AB. Let's just say that for both fits I would be constantly moving and I was keeping a high transversal for both. Any links that can better explain sig tanking would also be appreciated!
What kind of ships are shooting the 1k dps vs. the 740 dps makes a difference too. I'm not a master at plunking numbers into the %to hit formula, but it boils down to if you are going faster than their guns can track it would take a critical success on their part to hit you. The higher their tracking is, the easier it is for them to hit you (duh...).
SO, if you're in PvE room w/ a ton of BC/Cruisers shooting the 1000 dps at you, they're more likely to hit you no matter what. If the DPS coming in is mostly BS type damage (or missiles) then the speed would keep you safe.
I'd say, for the most part, you're better off with a speed tank in most situations that are PvE-Ratting-missioning. If you're in a PvP situation, I'd say its situational and totally depends on what the other guy(s) bring(s).
Fake Edit: Look what i found:
ChanceToHit = 0.5 ^ ((((Transversal speed/(Range to target * Turret Tracking))*(Turret Signature Resolution / Target Signature Radius))^2) + ((max(0, Range To Target - Turret Optimal Range))/Turret Falloff)^2)
with the explanation for it here
Cedric
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Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
130
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Posted - 2015.11.09 14:44:27 -
[20] - Quote
100mn AB with 740 DPS tank is better. No reason or proof given/necessary because it is such a simple question and does not require any other variables to consider. I'm just telling you the answer is B. If you are asking a question and it's either 'answer the question only in the way I framed it or jog on', then I can give you an answer and say 'accept the answer or jog on'.
People who ask stupid questions with absolutely no context given and demand that one only answers by choosing A or B, and will not accept any other answer, seriously shouldn't ask the question in the first place.
Just to be little bit more helpful, see the following
1) In PvE scenario, where that extra speed with small sig is necessary, 10mn AB is usually enough to achieve the same effect on a cruiser sized ships commonly used for DED sites (Tengu, Ishtar, GIla)
2) In PvE scenario, where you are webbed and swarmed by small ships to the extent where 100mn AB becomes hardly effective, you'd wish you had more raw tank than an oversized AB that eats up your grid and CPU which could have been used for, duh, more tank.
Especially if you are using Tengu, 100mn AB fit will gimp your setup to the extent that you will almost always have less DPS than 10mn AB setup (that's the difference between using Augmented Capacitor Sub vs. Cap Regenration Sub). And in general, you always want to take out web tower/webbing frigs faster, instead of aiming to tank longer while webbed, i.e., more DPS to solve the problem quickly is usually more preferable to more tank to bear with the problem longer.
Obviously, it all depends on the situations, which is what everyone else has been trying to tell you.
If I give you answer A, you can respond with scenarios where B is better, and vice versa. Which is why a question asking people to choose A or B without giving any context is simply stupid.
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