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FingerThief
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.19 07:30:00 -
[61]
Edited by: FingerThief on 19/01/2007 07:31:38
Originally by: D'onryu Shoqui someone really thinks vista will be more secure than linux? your in for a shock if you think vista is going to be anywhere near "relatively safe" until probably service pack 2
which is why you will find alot of people wont buy it until there has been atleast 1 service pack , they have previous experience of buying an ms os near the release date
Let's define "safe" or "secure" here ...
Working in an enterprise environment that basically comes down to ...
- Educating employee's to not wildly click "Yeah" anytime something pops up on the screen - Locking down user rights and not giving them admin access. - Have a firewall somewhere in between the user and the internet - Run good AV software. - Windows Update or WSUS client ( for local WSUS servers )
I am sick and tired of people treating an OS being insecure. It's not the OS that is insecure these days it's the users just trusting everything and installing toolbars here and there.
A very high percentage of incidents are not due to OS being "open" but due to users being logged in as admin and then installing software of dubious origin which in turn leads to Bots, Worms etc being installed.
In Vista the UAC is nice ... it does not presume you are admin nor does it give you the rights of one ... but if you right-click the shortcut you can "Run as Administrator" and avoid it.
Reading some other stuff like "DLL Hell" makes me purely laugh. It's a thing of the past since the introduction of .Net 1.0, GAC, ILMerge and all that. And saying that nobody codes in .Net is even more laughworthy ... just look at the third part tools like EVEMon etc ... those ARE written in .Net.
And I have to agree with a previous poster ... reading about something on the net and repeating it like a nice parrot without actually knowing what you talk about sure does make you look like an Ares.
And to the whole MS vs Linux stuff I just want to add the following ... if you have the same percentage of MS OS Users poke sticks at Linux to find bugs/holes/flaws etc as you have Linux users poke MS OS's ... I do not think you would have time to actually use Linux because you would be occupied compiling the kernel every single day a few times.
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George Petsch
Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.19 08:01:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Madphly a good link for reference for what windows vista is incorporating as far as digital rights management. http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-073.htm
The drm modulation is going to ugly at best - i hope for some stripped down version on irc else i'm not "upgrading" to vista. The fact is, you actually lose some functionality as far as media goes. I'd bet an intelligent artistic crowd like the eve playerbase will have plenty of gripes about the changes.
See, that is just plain wrong.
I'm using Vista, I still can rip my CDs and create mp3s. I can rip my DVD's, stream them and watch them with vlc or media player. You're not losing any functionality with windows Vista, you're gaining some! Yeah, really, DRM gives you advantages.
Like Blue-Ray DVD.
By design blue-ray movies players need to be certified by the industry, and they need to comply to copy protection standards. As far as I know, Vista is the ONLY OS which will provide a LEGAL way to play blue-ray movies, BECAUSE of it's DRM architecture, thus complying with the industry.
im in ur safespots pwning ur canz |
Roche Pso
Gallente Deltole Research Labs
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Posted - 2007.01.19 08:04:00 -
[63]
Originally by: FingerThief
For most Home users ( that do need elevated file encryption, Remote Desktop and other bells ) Windows Vista Premium Home is enough ... and the upgrade will cost you only around 160 $US ( whatever that translates to in your local currency
At current exchange rates $160 is a little more than ú80, however Microsoft's price for Vista Premium Home in the UK is more like ú130. Apparently they aren't using such a ****ty exchange rate to increase their profit, it is for our protection in some way they dont define properly
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FingerThief
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.19 08:19:00 -
[64]
Edited by: FingerThief on 19/01/2007 08:16:12
Originally by: Roche Pso
Originally by: FingerThief
For most Home users ( that do need elevated file encryption, Remote Desktop and other bells ) Windows Vista Premium Home is enough ... and the upgrade will cost you only around 160 $US ( whatever that translates to in your local currency
At current exchange rates $160 is a little more than ú80, however Microsoft's price for Vista Premium Home in the UK is more like ú130. Apparently they aren't using such a ****ty exchange rate to increase their profit, it is for our protection in some way they dont define properly
Upgrade ( from eligible MS OS's ) or Full ?
And if Upgrade ... Wowzers
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Rejectea
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Posted - 2007.01.19 10:38:00 -
[65]
I shall get vista the way I have had every OS since Windows 98, and it wasn't from the shops :P
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BustyBounty
Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.19 16:17:00 -
[66]
Quote: I am sick and tired of people treating an OS being insecure. It's not the OS that is insecure these days it's the users just trusting everything and installing toolbars here and there.
you can hardly blame buffer overflow exploits and such on the user. there was a jpeg exploit not so long ago right? you can hardly blame the user for IE having a flaw. you cant expect everyone to use there computer without beeing on an account with admin rights either ------------------------------------------ My opinions are my own and not that of the alliance I belong to. |
Bluestealth
Minmatar Star Scream Inc. Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.01.19 17:16:00 -
[67]
Originally by: BustyBounty
Quote: I am sick and tired of people treating an OS being insecure. It's not the OS that is insecure these days it's the users just trusting everything and installing toolbars here and there.
you can hardly blame buffer overflow exploits and such on the user. there was a jpeg exploit not so long ago right? you can hardly blame the user for IE having a flaw. you cant expect everyone to use there computer without being on an account with admin rights either
I absolutely hate windows, but I have to agree that if you run as a limited rights user, revoke a few of the stupid privileges they give you (for ex. the ability to write files almost anywhere on the drive), and don't use IE, you will probably never get a virus. There are so many annoying quirks with windows that make me hate it, but viruses and security are only a minor annoyance with XP/Vista if setup correctly.
I do believe that Microsoft is completely to blame for giving out Administrator rights, they should have stopped that with NT4, instead they are fixing it with Vista. I am also still not convinced how well they have implemented a locked down user and will have to wait for a copy of Vista to check just how "low rights" it really is.
To the poster who said an OS should get out of your way and not be complex, well Linux IS. If you choose one of the distributions targeted at average users you can easily install it and get going quickly. I doubt there are many people who couldn't sit down and start using it to do everyday computing, except for some initial shell shock from seeing something different. I would say it is about as complex as going from Windows to Mac, except its harder to buy preinstalled.
However, if you want to do more with the OS and customize it into exactly what you want it to be, go ahead all the code and tools are there for you, otherwise its just an OS, and UI and basic system tools are all you will need.
The reason that my desktop is Windows XP and not Linux at this time is lack of hardware support by Creative. There are times that I have felt like kicking my XP box because it frustrated me that much, but its still on there, it survived the kill switch last time when I realized it would be difficult to get my X-Fi with 7.1 audio working. Also I am completely reliant on BeyondTV for watching TV, and my crappy ATI TV Tuner Elite(I know it has the best picture quality, but it seems like a huge paperweight) has no linux drivers (Woe be me, should have got the hauppauge).
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Feerax
FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.23 00:32:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Rejectea I shall get vista the way I have had every OS since Windows 98, and it wasn't from the shops :P
Proud of being a thief?
Kudos.
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Tobias Sjodin
Caldari Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.23 02:14:00 -
[69]
ANY OS is only as good as it's user is proficient with it.
An idiot will be an idiot regardless of whether he uses Vista or Linux.
Windows is better in my world, because the applications I use in my daily life doesn't exist for Linux. And that is what matters to me.
[OMG! SMASH!] |
sr blackout
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.01.23 04:21:00 -
[70]
i think its about time though for 64bit and sli support... it would make eve on par with other games... but thats just me cause this pc i have is just waiting for something more to do hehe... and im wondering if 64bit xp pro is a better idea then vista? since i do have a amd 64bit chip, and sli ready though 7900 is more then enough for now, and pretty soon it will be no point for my 7900, getting another one when i would need a dx10 card sooner or later
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Forum Troll
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Posted - 2007.01.23 04:31:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Rejectea I shall get vista the way I have had every OS since Windows 98, and it wasn't from the shops :P
/cheer
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Ryysa
North Face Force
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Posted - 2007.01.23 05:42:00 -
[72]
I have just one thing to say.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/17/gameplay-only-gets-worse-with-vista/
Tomshardware is a fairly respectable source. They've been running benchmarks, since I've been online, and that's a damn long time.
There are multiple benchmarks showing performance degradation.
Also, until i upgrade to at least 2 GB of ram, I will not get Vista. I simply don't see the point in doing so right now. I never have any issues with my WinXP, I can run everything i need to, and it's not half as bloated as Vista is atm.
490mb ram for the op system, give me a goddamn break.
Jamming & Logoffski |
Claude Leon
Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2007.01.23 05:50:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Ryysa I have just one thing to say.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/17/gameplay-only-gets-worse-with-vista/
Tomshardware is a fairly respectable source. They've been running benchmarks, since I've been online, and that's a damn long time.
There are multiple benchmarks showing performance degradation.
Also, until i upgrade to at least 2 GB of ram, I will not get Vista. I simply don't see the point in doing so right now. I never have any issues with my WinXP, I can run everything i need to, and it's not half as bloated as Vista is atm.
490mb ram for the op system, give me a goddamn break.
Umm your late. 2GB's was so last year. Hell, my cat has a computer with 2GB's of ram. It is all about 4gigs baby. You either adapt or die.
1GB of memory, hah!
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Templer Relleg
Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.23 12:45:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Templer Relleg on 23/01/2007 12:51:10
Originally by: Ryysa I have just one thing to say.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/17/gameplay-only-gets-worse-with-vista/
Tomshardware is a fairly respectable source. They've been running benchmarks, since I've been online, and that's a damn long time.
There are multiple benchmarks showing performance degradation.
Also, until i upgrade to at least 2 GB of ram, I will not get Vista. I simply don't see the point in doing so right now. I never have any issues with my WinXP, I can run everything i need to, and it's not half as bloated as Vista is atm.
490mb ram for the op system, give me a goddamn break.
Yadadada, you make me laugh You do know why it takes 490mb ram from cold boot? Because it preloades stuff that you often use, in order to give you a fast load time on the things you use on a regular basis, which it figures out with several very complex algorithms.
The article by tomshardware is useless. They use non-rtm drivers from nvidia, that are in beta stage. So what do you expect? Yes, you could in theory see a small decrease in performence in games with Vista, if you look at how DirectX 9 works, as its emulated. But if you look at the new graphics driver model, the performence will be better.
Now please try and read into the stuff, before posting benchmarks which you just read, and think you know what really is going on! Also when my xp boots it consumes more then 400mb ram. And i hardly have alot running from cold boot.
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sr blackout
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.01.23 22:20:00 -
[75]
my q is i have a dual core amd 64bit with 7900 and 2gb of ram... should i even bother maybe with an oem of vista ultimate? btw how does it work could you put it on more then one home comp or no :P xp pro is nice, and i have 32bit of xp pro and wondering if i should get 64bit pro yet or just jump to 64bit vista
does anyone know such answers? And of course I would love eve to have 64bit or sli support
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Satsukage
Nubs. Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.23 22:26:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Reddof Nonnac
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 17/01/2007 18:42:50
Originally by: George Petsch
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 17/01/2007 10:48:28
Originally by: xaix ikkul if you dont understand how to spend twenty minutes locking down ports and disabling gust/anonymous user accounts in linux then you dont have the technical knowledge or exerience to be dabbling in such a complicated operating system.
it's not the software it's the user.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
... ...
If I buy a Vista machine, I will wipe it as soon as I get it.
Well, master of blue robots, you are mistaken here.
Obviously you've never seen Vista perform in real world, you've never seen the principle of "least user rights" aka user account control, plus you've never run any benchmarks on any vista machine. Obviously your only source of information are some -3 modded down trolls on slashdot, because that is what your post sounds like.
I'm proactivley evaluating Windows Vista since mid december, I won't go into details here, but I can safely say: you're wrong. Please, do not spread such FUD rumors about an OS you know nothing about. Should you decide to open you mind a bit and actually learn something, I'm availible for any questions about my personal experience with Windows Vista & EVE ingame.
Vista won't even run on my computer because it will use my entire RAM, nearly a gigabyte, on bootup.
There are plenty of websites that describe exactly why Vista sucks. Its slow, has vast DRM restrictions, and has worse compatibility than a 1999 version of Red Hat.
I am never ever going to use an operating system that requires 100 dollars of memory just to load the OS and kernel. Ever. (Yes, this means I might consider Vista if 1 gigabyte of memory costs 10 dollars)
And if you think Microsoft is so trustworthy, here's a message from Microsoft themselves saying how slow Vista is.
Are you running RTM with "stable" drivers?
Vista is much better than XP, IMO.
And this whole *****ing over DRM is not to blaim Microsoft, but the recording industry. They are they driving force behind this feature, and I am tired of people putting the blaim on M$. M$ is just accomodatnig them. It all started with the closure of Napster.
No, MS compiles it, MS sells it, MS makes the cash.
MS is getting into the digital media arena.
MS is totally, absolutly without any question whatsoever 100% to blame for the DRM nightmare that is Vista.
Period. Anything else is self-delusional fanboism.
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sr blackout
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.01.25 03:12:00 -
[77]
does anyone know the answer to my questions?
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Betonela
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.01.25 03:47:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Rejectea I shall get vista the way I have had every OS since Windows 98, and it wasn't from the shops :P
/signed
--------- join on New Movement of Market Traders |
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