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Van Nostrand
Gallente Raptus Regaliter Pride - Honor - Duty
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Posted - 2007.01.05 11:03:00 -
[31]
Have to say - I like command ship - so much in fact that I fly them in many forms. For PvP (pure damage) I prefer the Absolution, for ratting I use a Damnation or Vulture. I find them easy to fit, all have good stong tank, and all do reasonable damage. Interestingly in PvP, attacking ships will often target and fire on the command ship first - not simply because of the assists - but because they do at least as much damage as a tier 1 BS.
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Waxau
Liberty Rogues
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Posted - 2007.01.05 11:16:00 -
[32]
Well the vulture has its own little niche. It can fit the 2nd best passive tank in game for a non-capital ship ("nd to the rattlesnake) and is very versatile. Can be set as a sniper with a 220km range, or can be set as a blaster boat.
Regarding how people use them : I rarely use mine with gang mods. Reason for this is firstly, i have to be gang leader. That brings its own limitations and in fleet ops, im not a natural leader, and as such, dont like having to role:P However even that side, the vulture is great in blaster or rail setup. A bulture can tear through most battleships due to the superior tank. And the Snulture (Sniper Vulture ) is just as good as an eagle when it comes to sniping, except has a greater tank WHILST sniping, and can fit 5 light drones. And ofcourse is cheaper.
Fleet ships lack hugely in damage i have found however. They largely rely on a strong tank, to just outlive the opponent. My vultures passive tank can tank a thanatos with high skills for 10 minutes. However, when it comes to dps, i cant break a prophecy's. Its all about balance with Fleet CBC, and sadly it often results in cookie cutter setups, due to a lack of versatility between tank and gank. But thats just my opinion ^^
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Hank Showbo
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Posted - 2007.01.05 12:15:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Hank Showbo on 05/01/2007 12:15:52 I do actually have a little whine about the fleet command ships :S
The Damnation/Claymore/Vulture all have the basic dps than the t1 counterpart, some have range bonuses, tracking, so they do have a little more dps, apart from damnation.
The one thing that really annoys me is the Eos, apart from its uber tank (which all fleet commands have), it has 2 damage bonuses (drone bay), enough grid to fit 7 neutrons and 5 mediums slots for versatility in fleet/gang/solo PVP.
How can CCP justify the fact that the eos has the second best fleet command tank, the best damage of the fleet commands, and five medium slots, taking into account the other fleet command ships?
Anyway to answer the original post is maybe the BPOs for fleet commands ended in the right hands? I dont know.
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Hank Showbo
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Posted - 2007.01.05 12:15:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Hank Showbo on 05/01/2007 12:15:41
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The Shin
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Posted - 2007.01.05 12:29:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Marquis Dean Yeah but the Eos doesn't work well in an offensive role, since it lacks a drone damage/hitpoint bonus, drones being it's primary weapon system, or at least half of a split. That one fact alone put me off and I went Amarr rather than Gallente CBCs.
BWAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!
stop lieing for the EVE comunity!
Eos is the most powerfull and most devestating BC in teh game. With guns only, sure the astarte beats it, but when we count in tank, and those dear drones. its pure DPS is scary, same with the tank. also to use 3 gang mods, even if you just 10 ppl in gang.. makes a HUGE difference. to have 7 t2 ions fireing at you + 5 t2 ogres circling ya. you will be hurt.
so NO, eos is very combat able.
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dalman
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2007.01.05 13:00:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Goumindong Big ol' drone bay with 7 bonused turrets. Compared to any of the other fleet command ships is does the most damage hands down and doesnt lose all that much comparativly fitting its gang mods.
As someone who fly an Eos I must point out 2 things:
* The Eos has a much weaker tank than then 3 other fleet command ships (and in return a considerably better offence).
* Gang mods and Eos in one sentence? Have you ever tried to fit 3 gang mods on an Eos? It's horribly lacking in fittings compared to the reqs of gang mods. To say something like that an Eos can fit 3 gang mods and still be wtfbbq in a gang with it's dronebay and so on is just completely wrong. If you want to fit 3 ganglinks on it you'll have to sacrifice alot that the other 3 fleet commandships don't.
Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.01.05 13:00:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 05/01/2007 13:00:42 3 days 11 hours till BC5!!!
But Im training it for the myrmidon though, screw FC's. 550 dps with a 100dps repper with only risking 30mill max is disgusting.
I've stopped flying HAC's, even with HAC5, It makes me sick when you lose one. And even a T2BC isnt worth the loss to me. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
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Hulemand
Gallente Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.01.05 13:39:00 -
[38]
Being a pilot with alot of skillpoints in leadership, Command Ship lvl 5, alot of support skills etc. I fly both field and fleet command ships.
For PvE there is no reason what so ever to pilot a fleet command unless you are doing some high lvl complex and have a large gang.
For PvP, you need to figure out when it is better to focus fully on warfare modules using a fleet command ship or just bring a BS or something else. Normaly you'd need a rather large gang before your leadership stuff becomes of more value than an extra BS setup fro damage or perhaps a field command.
I think that the bonus these ships gain to their field of warfare modules might be a bit to weak. Sure they are great tanks, but with half your highslots full of cap eating warfare modules they are not exactly great in the offensive role.
I'd suggest inceasing the bonus they get to warfare modulesn and perhaps a hidden bonus to pg and cap use of the same modules. - Hulemand |
Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2007.01.05 14:55:00 -
[39]
Claymore DPS is pathetically weak. Its still a decent ship, but the skill reqs are also insane.
Shamis
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Karunel
Princeps Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.05 15:51:00 -
[40]
Personally I love the Eos, 7 Heavy Neutron II + heavies II for the days I cba to fit leadership stuff.
Originally by: elbenito The problem with large fleet engagements is that the hamsters stop to watch.
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FireAnt
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Posted - 2007.01.05 16:35:00 -
[41]
i think fleet and field command ships are underrated. As for cost compared for hacs there is no comparison. every hac either runs or dies against a command ship. the fleet command ship granted cannot kill a hac well other than eos, but a hac will never kill it. the field command can tank and gank at the same time yet sell for a fraction of what hacs sell for.
to me is all about skills. people dont have the skills to fly command ships, and if they do and they choose a hac over a command ship then i dont know what to say as a hac doesnt stand a chance against a field command ship.
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dalman
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2007.01.05 17:16:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Karunel Personally I love the Eos, 7 Heavy Neutron II.
Yea, I also sometimes fit 7 neutrons on my nano-eos.
But unless you're flying such a thing, please enlighten all of us how the heck you've managed to fit 7 neutrons, k? You're out of grid way before that with a 'proper' setup :s
Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
Liet Traep
Minmatar Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.01.05 21:36:00 -
[43]
I do. The damnation is not a bad ship. it only sucks if you use lasers. Strap on 3 medium nos, 4 heavy launcher 2's or 425mm 2's, web, scram, ab, maybe a tracking comp or sensor booster., medium armor rep 2, 1600rt plate. Slap a passive tank on there and you're immune to amarr pilots worst enemy. nos. Plus you have a sick tank. I tried a similar setup on test server and made bs run 1vs1.
The damnation is a great ship but a crappy laserboat. It's never going to be a zealot or absolution. It's great for it's role. Solid support ship with he gang mods or it can be decent in pvp with a little ingenuity.
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Hulemand
Gallente Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.01.05 21:51:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Liet Traep I do. The damnation is not a bad ship. it only sucks if you use lasers. Strap on 3 medium nos, 4 heavy launcher 2's or 425mm 2's, web, scram, ab, maybe a tracking comp or sensor booster., medium armor rep 2, 1600rt plate. Slap a passive tank on there and you're immune to amarr pilots worst enemy. nos. Plus you have a sick tank. I tried a similar setup on test server and made bs run 1vs1.
The damnation is a great ship but a crappy laserboat. It's never going to be a zealot or absolution. It's great for it's role. Solid support ship with he gang mods or it can be decent in pvp with a little ingenuity.
And how does that setup help you? With your highs full of nos/missiles you wont help your gang. Your damage is rubbish and for the same price you could get a BS that does the job alot greater! - Hulemand |
000Hunter000
Gallente The Lookers
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Posted - 2007.01.05 22:02:00 -
[45]
NH is my primary ship atm (poor raven is gathering dust in me hangar). It excelled at doing L4 mission pre rmr and it excells now.
Starting to see more NH's in mission systems now, once u start using it on L'4's u will never want to go back to the clumsy Raven.
Might buy a vulture just for the gangbonus thingy and use it as tanker on group L4's.
Bought me a new cerb before i went on holiday (bought it on a whim) but i must say it does not even compare to the NH... mebbe i'll sell it again
Resized tag... again... hope this pleases the tag ninjas from ccp... again :p
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FraXy
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.01.05 22:46:00 -
[46]
Originally by: dalman
Originally by: Karunel Personally I love the Eos, 7 Heavy Neutron II.
Yea, I also sometimes fit 7 neutrons on my nano-eos.
But unless you're flying such a thing, please enlighten all of us how the heck you've managed to fit 7 neutrons, k? You're out of grid way before that with a 'proper' setup :s
Magic maybe?
AWU 3 then this fits:
High: 5x Heavy Ion II 2x Heavy Neutron II
Mid: Y-T8 Mwd Fleeting 20k Fleeting Web EW Slot Medium Electrochemical w/800`s
Lows: 2x MAR II 1x Explosive Hardener II 1x EANM II 1x F85 DCU
Dronebay: Personal preference
EW Slot is also personal preference. I tend to use Balmer TD to reduce incoming damage from say Amarr ships or a Sniper ship that tries to add damage on me when i`m in an engagement.
Other possibility is RSD II or Phased Muon, doesn`t 'break' locks, but can give u more time to take care of the drones in a battle or just give u time to react.
This is my lazy attempt to make an uber-signature, please go away!
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Waxau
Liberty Rogues
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Posted - 2007.01.06 00:55:00 -
[47]
Originally by: 000Hunter000 NH is my primary ship atm (poor raven is gathering dust in me hangar). It excelled at doing L4 mission pre rmr and it excells now.
Starting to see more NH's in mission systems now, once u start using it on L'4's u will never want to go back to the clumsy Raven.
Might buy a vulture just for the gangbonus thingy and use it as tanker on group L4's.
Bought me a new cerb before i went on holiday (bought it on a whim) but i must say it does not even compare to the NH... mebbe i'll sell it again
With all due respect, if its your main ship, you surely would know that its a FIELD command, and is therefore off topic here
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Liet Traep
Minmatar Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.01.06 04:14:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Hulemand
Originally by: Liet Traep I do. The damnation is not a bad ship. it only sucks if you use lasers. Strap on 3 medium nos, 4 heavy launcher 2's or 425mm 2's, web, scram, ab, maybe a tracking comp or sensor booster., medium armor rep 2, 1600rt plate. Slap a passive tank on there and you're immune to amarr pilots worst enemy. nos. Plus you have a sick tank. I tried a similar setup on test server and made bs run 1vs1.
The damnation is a great ship but a crappy laserboat. It's never going to be a zealot or absolution. It's great for it's role. Solid support ship with he gang mods or it can be decent in pvp with a little ingenuity.
And how does that setup help you? With your highs full of nos/missiles you wont help your gang. Your damage is rubbish and for the same price you could get a BS that does the job alot greater!
Obviously that's not a gang setup. My gang setup uses 4 heavy pulse 2's, 3 gang mods and a cap injector. But this thread was talking about the shortcomings of Fleet Command Ships. And i was showing that you can use a damnation effectively in small gang pvp. And yes that nos setup does pathetic damage. But it has lots of nos, a really tough tank sustainable damage not vulnerable to nos. It's a similar setup to the old nos sacrilege setups. And those were VERY effective back in the day. Just trying to show a setup I'm fond of for the damnation.
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Phyrexia Tarzig
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Posted - 2007.01.06 10:28:00 -
[49]
Claymore + interceptor gang = |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.01.06 11:30:00 -
[50]
Maybe when they fix nos... a battleship nossing a command ship, guess who wins... --- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.06 11:52:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz but the skill reqs are also insane.
Shamis
skill req's were inline before they changed the whole gang system.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.06 11:53:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Maybe when they fix nos... a battleship nossing a command ship, guess who wins...
the commandship that has a capinjector fitted?
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2007.01.06 12:03:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Maybe when they fix nos... a battleship nossing a command ship, guess who wins...
the commandship that has a capinjector fitted?
No, try again. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
dabster
Minmatar Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.01.06 12:32:00 -
[54]
I reckon its a lot to do with skills why not many fly Claymore/Damnation etc. Most people have the pre-reqs from hacs and lack bc 5+warfare link4. For the fleet commands most will lack both long range targetting 1-2 weeks, and logistics 4. What you actually get for spending 3 weeks on getting those skills up, is not worth the effort. Field commands are SO much better and more fun. ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click. |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.01.06 12:45:00 -
[55]
I still think they are great in a gang though. Those gang bonuses do a lot for the gang... I know Claymore can help a Vagabond break the sound barrier. --- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Hotice
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Posted - 2007.01.06 12:56:00 -
[56]
I fly all the HACs and Field command ships. I like zealot, vagabond, absolution, and sleipnir the most. HACs are fast and deadly. You cannot go head to head with battleships and try to tough it out. They simply not build for that kind of action. Field command ships are much better for that role. Astarte and Sleipnir can both dish out very serious damage. Absolution is just an all around good ship for pretty much any situation. NH with new ship bonus has becoming a much better ship. However I dislike missiles personally.
The whole reason that command ships in general is cheaper is due their skill requirment. They require more skills than training battleship to lvl 5. HACs on the other hand are very easily trained. For pve, HAC can do the job well enough. Many just cannot stand the slowness of command ships and battleships anymore. For pvp, I honestly have not see much fleet command ships. All I have seen so far are blaster astarte, AC sleipnir, and a few absolutions. Honestly, unless you are in a large gang, otherwise field command ships would help much more. On the receiving end of those ships is not a very good thing.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.01.06 14:37:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Hotice
Over all, I would say Sleipnir is the best field command ship. It is very fast, got super tank, can switch damage type at will, instant damage, and do well in both close and long range. I think ccp did a perfect job for this ship.
I want a tech 2 version of the Hurricane. A minmatar armor tanked command ship with higher damage than the Sleipnir (and much less tank) would make people train for these ships immediately.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Hank Showbo
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Posted - 2007.01.06 15:21:00 -
[58]
Does everyone agree the Damnation/Vulture/Claymore need some changing?
Eos got damage/tank/EW, the others got tank.
It isnt really fair is it?
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dabster
Minmatar Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.01.06 17:01:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Hotice
Over all, I would say Sleipnir is the best field command ship. It is very fast, got super tank, can switch damage type at will, instant damage, and do well in both close and long range. I think ccp did a perfect job for this ship.
I want a tech 2 version of the Hurricane. A minmatar armor tanked command ship with higher damage than the Sleipnir (and much less tank) would make people train for these ships immediately.
Oooooh yes! MAKE IT DARK BLUE!!!
Im expecting to get the bpo too. or..erm...bpo yea sure.. ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click. |
ReaperOfSly
Gallente Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.06 17:11:00 -
[60]
Our killboards penalise you for losing a command ship about 10-20 times more than losing a battlecruiser. My killboard score should be positive but isn't. --------------------------------------------------------------------
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