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Max Caulfield
Contina AG Mauren
6
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Posted - 2015.11.09 10:34:17 -
[1] - Quote
Especially the ones in the starmap. Several of the bugs listed here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5901069#post5901069 are still present. With every bug that is fixed, it seems another one just takes its place.
Related question: Why are buggy features rolled into Tranquility? |
XxUltradmbxX
Girl Friends Please Ignore League of Unaligned Master Pilots
3
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Posted - 2015.11.09 10:49:01 -
[2] - Quote
we are free betatester |
Mag's
the united
20693
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Posted - 2015.11.09 10:54:22 -
[3] - Quote
The new map is CCP's proof of concept, that you can indeed polish a turd.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1806
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Posted - 2015.11.09 11:04:09 -
[4] - Quote
we would be waiting 6 years per expansion if everything was to be perfect, easier to get the playerbase to complain about something and the more that complain the more priority it gets, but bugs dont just get fixed 1 issue at a time otherwise we would be getting silly patches everyday.
Recruiting V I R I I Small Gang Nullsec PVP
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Thierry Orlenard
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
80
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Posted - 2015.11.09 11:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
You answered the question in your own post. Sometimes when something is fixed, it breaks another thing. Code in a game like this is incredibly complex. It goes back into the 1990's and it can perhaps be thought of as a mountain of spaghetti.
Also, in games like this they have a priority system for fixing bugs. At the top of the heap are bugs that are game-breaking -- as in, critical failures will occur as a result of the bug. At the bottom are bugs that represent very minor annoyances. In between can be any number of bugs waiting to be fixed and some of them can be years old simply because they keep getting pushed to the bottom of the priority pile.
A certain other game developer that runs a large MMO from roughly the same time period as EVE has said that its bug fix priority list contains over 200,000 bugs. Those guys have a much larger team than CCP does, so in light of that, I for one have a pretty good appreciation of how quickly CCP is able to roll out bug fixes.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
14966
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Posted - 2015.11.09 11:49:29 -
[6] - Quote
Mag's wrote:The new map is CCP's proof of concept, that you can indeed polish a turd.
They could have just subcontracted that out to the US Army. We've been polishing turds since the 80s at least. Might as well be it's own MOS (military job assignment) at this point.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Otso Bakarti
Filial Pariahs
457
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Posted - 2015.11.09 12:56:38 -
[7] - Quote
Some people look at a job and say, "Why?" Some people say, "Why not?"
Fear of death follows from fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time. -Mark Twain -
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Goldensaver
Lom Corporation Just let it happen
410
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Posted - 2015.11.09 13:11:58 -
[8] - Quote
99 little bugs in the code 99 little bugs Take one down, patch it around 127 little bugs in the code. |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
482
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Posted - 2015.11.09 13:49:48 -
[9] - Quote
I am currently doing scientific code. My current project has some bugs that i just can;t fix after trying for a very long time.
If there was a way to write bug free code (mathematically impossible), or to find bugs perfectly, the industry would love to here them. It is worth billions. I really mean that.
AKA the scientist.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
200
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Posted - 2015.11.09 14:11:52 -
[10] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:I am currently doing scientific code. My current project has some bugs that i just can;t fix after trying for a very long time.
If there was a way to write bug free code (mathematically impossible), or to find bugs perfectly, the industry would love to here them. It is worth billions. I really mean that.
I did some bug fixing years ago, much more simplistic than the code in this game would be (although I don't know how good the bug fixing tools are these days) but it did give me an appreciation of how difficult it can be to solve some bugs. |
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Otso Bakarti
Filial Pariahs
457
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Posted - 2015.11.09 14:15:29 -
[11] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:I am currently doing scientific code. My current project has some bugs that i just can;t fix after trying for a very long time.
If there was a way to write bug free code (mathematically impossible), or to find bugs perfectly, the industry would love to here them. It is worth billions. I really mean that. Often times I correct English and spelling in posts with no other addition but to do that. Some people think it's an ego thing; being a grammar-Nazi. What I'm actually doing is trying to draw the subconscious mind to detail by forcing the creation of a neural-pathway. Once this pathway is created it becomes the actual architecture through which synapses fire. "We" see this from our perspective as "remembering things." I see it as making a system more efficient.
You could look at it as "fixing a bug." Ultimately, we're dealing with circuitry and the flow of electrons, no? How the circuit is created determines its efficiency. That it is a circuit doesn't automatically bring with it this connection. Now, I'm not going to correct the English in your post, as I told you why I'd do it in the first place, and for my present purpose this should suffice. What I'm drawing to your attention is a poorly created circuit.
What people fail to realize is, if you create circuitry poorly in an instance such as this, it's highly likely you create them poorly in other applications of your brain. This of course points to the requirement of discipline. The definition of "discipline" has changed in recent times. People will actually use it to describe beating a child; I'm disciplining the child. People studying the higher sciences are often made to learn calculus, but find when they're "on the job" they never use it. (It's a running joke with many physicists.) However, it's lost on these people that in learning the calculus they've disciplined the developmental processes they use when creating the internal architecture of their brains. A similar result can be obtained by playing chess - playing chess correctly.
Okay - "writing code". The reason bugs appear in code has to do with the discipline of the brain writing the code. There are actually people that write bug free code. However, these folks are in a minority and are very highly paid indeed. Performance allows people to rise to the top of their fields, even in this field. The problem is in the ability to visualize the entire form that is being created - as a whole.
You must admit, most code writers today will write sections of code, then will stitch the code sections into a whole form. One section won't be wholly compatible with another, at what could be called their seams (or the area where they interact) and when this occurs, it's called a "bug". Finding bugs in code written in this fashion is a time-consuming and often hit or miss venture. It is also not seen as a profitable way to spend time. Many writers think the code is doing it to itself; that there's some hidden magic (God forbid) that suddenly appears when you hit the "on" switch. So, debugging code is seen as an unpleasant chore, much like slopping the hogs.
There is a certain amount of inevitability to this. If you look at the code for EVE as a whole, for instance, the human brain (or consciousness) can't possible "see" it. The human brain can only process it perceptually in segments. Theoretically, some code can rival the circuitry of the brain itself. It would be, therefore, a physical impossibility to "see what you're doing" when writing code on this scale. Without that ability, flaws would be inevitable, and I think that's what you're looking at here with bugs in computer code. (Can't see the forest for the trees?)
Good luck with that!
Fear of death follows from fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time. -Mark Twain -
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
200
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Posted - 2015.11.09 15:07:25 -
[12] - Quote
Otso Bakarti wrote:
PS There were 14 typo, grammatical and punctuation errors corrected in this post after four edits. There were four misspellings.
Which, I guess makes you human. Congratulations! |
Nafensoriel
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
178
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Posted - 2015.11.09 17:49:08 -
[13] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote:99 little bugs in the code 99 little bugs Take one down, patch it around 127 little bugs in the code. The above made an entire office laugh their asses off for a good 20 minutes. Bravo good sir. Bravo.
To the OP there was once a small bug a friend of mine had the pleasure of tracking down. On paper and in the code he isolated literally every single line this particular bug(a simple display issue) came into contact with. He knew exactly the method in which the code failed and had isolated the exact progression of the error. Trouble is the code was still perfect. Nothing at all was wrong with it. Six months after bashing his head in looking for an answer a new employee with some hardware engineering pointed out a weird quirk in the way the units hardware was designed allowed for a situation in which the code ran differently. It was undocumented except by the company that made the hardware.
Sometimes a simple little bug isn't so simple. Code is weird sh*t. It does whatever the heck it wants and laughs at you when you go insane. |
Spruillo
Spruillo Corp
57
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Posted - 2015.11.09 18:25:26 -
[14] - Quote
Otso Bakarti wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:I am currently doing scientific code. My current project has some bugs that i just can;t fix after trying for a very long time.
If there was a way to write bug free code (mathematically impossible), or to find bugs perfectly, the industry would love to here them. It is worth billions. I really mean that. Often times I correct English and spelling in posts with no other addition but to do that. Some people think it's an ego thing; being a grammar-Nazi. What I'm actually doing is trying to draw the subconscious mind to detail by forcing the creation of a neural-pathway. Once this pathway is created it becomes the actual architecture through which synapses fire. "We" see this from our perspective as "remembering things." I see it as making a system more efficient. You could look at it as "fixing a bug." Ultimately, we're dealing with circuitry and the flow of electrons, no? How the circuit is created determines its efficiency. That it is a circuit doesn't automatically bring with it this characteristic. Now, I'm not going to correct the English in your post, as I told you why I'd do it in the first place, and for my present purpose this should suffice. What I'd be drawing to your attention is a poorly-created circuit. What people fail to realize is, if you create circuits poorly in an instance such as this, it's highly likely you create them poorly in other applications of your brain. This of course points to the requirement of discipline. The definition of "discipline" has changed in recent times. People will actually use it to describe beating a child; I'm disciplining the child. People studying the higher sciences are often made to learn calculus, but find when they're "on the job" they never use it. (It's a running joke with many physicists.) However, it's lost on these people that in learning the calculus they've disciplined the developmental processes they use when creating the internal architecture of their brains. A similar result can be obtained by playing chess - playing chess correctly. Okay - "writing code". The reason bugs appear in code has to do with the discipline of the brain writing the code. There are actually people that write bug-free code. However, these folks are in a minority and are very highly-paid indeed. Performance allows people to rise to the top of their fields, even in this field. The problem is in the ability to visualize the entire form that is being created - as a whole. You must admit, most code writers today will write sections of code, then will stitch the code sections into a whole form. One section won't be wholly compatible with another at what could be called their seams (or the areas where they interact) and when this occurs, it's called a "bug". Finding bugs in code written in this fashion is a time-consuming and often hit or miss venture. It is also not seen as a profitable way to spend time. Many writers think the code is doing it to itself; that there's some hidden magic (God forbid) that suddenly appears when you hit the "on" switch. So, debugging code is seen as an unpleasant chore, much like slopping the hogs. There is a certain amount of inevitability to this. If you look at the code for EVE as a whole, for instance, the human brain (or consciousness) can't possibly "see" it. The human brain can only process it perceptually in segments. Theoretically, some code can rival the circuitry of the brain itself. It would be, therefore, a physical impossibility to "see what you're doing" when writing code on this scale. Without that ability, flaws would be inevitable, and I think that's what you're looking at here with bugs in computer code. (Can't see the forest for the trees?)Good luck with that! PS There were 14 typo, grammatical and punctuation errors corrected in this post after four edits. There were four misspellings. I'll play chess with you anyday. Jailhouse/homeless shelter champ When I was a kid me and my pot dealer actually made our own sets, fired clay. Awesome times
PLAYIN SPACE TRUCKS VROOM VROOM
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