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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Zagum Darkfin
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:07:00 -
[61]
I like to thank all our alliance leaders for their hard work in planning, organizing, and executing this war. Good work everyone!!
/me go back to shooting pos guns.
In response to the person complaining about spies, I will say its part of the game, deal with it.
One word of advice to the other alliances, be honest with your members. If you lie, you will be found out.
Cheers,
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Arenis Xemdal
Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:09:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Davlin Lotze Credit is due obviously. Displacing ASCN from Feyth wasn't something that alot thought would be as easy as you made it seem. Well played.
But what I don't get still is why you cheapen your efforts and accomplishments with the Burn Eden-eqse forum spying and the other forms of out-of-game inflitration??? It just makes you look "low rent."
And with the rot from within that was the case with ASCN, the out of game stuff was even more unnecessary. Hell, just find any number of disgruntled current or former ASCN at the outset of this operation and utilize them.
The point here is two-fold, one to congratulate real accomplishment and two, to ask why turnaround and cheap it with stuff that's unnecessary? Wouldn't you come off as even more of a "eve juggernaut" if you eschewed the out of game crap and not inflitrate official alliance forums, TS, etc?
You think it cheapened the war, I claim otherwise. The spying was not necessary to win battles, but it allowed us to show EVE a massive discrepancy between ASCN's public and private personas. In private, BoB was the devil. In public, false respects and various other forms of pandering were shown.
Had ASCN refrained from making such posts in private, we would not have felt the need to expose and refute them in public. Had they not become so upset over the concept of spying, and accused its legitimacy in EVE, we would not have felt the need to continue doing it.
In the end, it was entertainment at their expense. Didn't have to be that way, but that will be a lesson to inherit.
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Nira Li
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:09:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Dominie Dirtch
Originally by: Amthrianius
Originally by: TrippyX Edited by: TrippyX on 05/01/2007 18:09:09
Originally by: Harisdrop I never realized how awesome you must feel. I guess your the first alliance to claim you destroyed an Alliance!
BoB didn't destroy ASCN.. ASCN destroyed itself.
I will point you to our corporations bio, go have a look.
Many alliances have said such to us, whether it be
PA NBSI CA FA Xetic the list goes on
Always Internal problems
How dare you put CA in that list you insignificant bug.
CA was not destroyed by anyone, least of all BoB, CA was destroyed by ego's and nothing more.
Ofc, it was ONLY internal problems *cough* *cough*
Thx for the war ASCN.
You Will Cry My Name
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Exelsior
Colossus Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:10:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Exelsior on 05/01/2007 19:10:53 Nice post, even if it was propoganda.
Now what would really be cool is if you go ahead and fight RA or AAA or someone who has integrity and don't give up. But I guess your next trip is back to fountain for clearing?
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Nostradamu
Clandestia
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:10:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Herculite ASCN was the biggest richest alliance in EvE when this started, not BoB, and on paper it should have been BoB who was worried.
I keep on hearing this but it's not strictly true, the riches were not shared out and the entire "alliance" was not rich per-se, look closely to what the corps do in the future to see where the riches were and still are.
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Davlin Lotze
Raging Destruction
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:12:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Zagum Darkfin
In response to the person complaining about spies, I will say its part of the game, deal with it.
Are you saying "deal with it" as in you did it "because you could?" Or something different?
Doing things "because they could" is part of what rotted ASCN from the inside. And, to borrow from an out of game example, it's why Bill Clinton availed himself of the opportunity to get a blow job in the white house. Few sensible will think better of him because of that, correct? Instead they think of his as a disgrace.
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Christopher Multsanti
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:12:00 -
[67]
Very good post and very well done.
& LOL @ stavros getting pwned by the mods.
It's great being Amarr that flys Minmintar aint it?
EVIL SYNNs > Bob are the best, we have to pay them to use the plexs...
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Pesadel0
Vagabundos THE H0RDE
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:13:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Darko1107 Steamrollered.
Praise where it is due, well done, you guys did a good job.
Indeed it was a good war ,drama,hate,blood, humiliation,spying.Brave acts,suicide runs :D.
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Kin Hanyerec
TunDraGon
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:14:00 -
[69]
Good job ;)
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:14:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Hardin Is BoB off to play Pirates of The Burning Sea Now?
Temporary solution: -fill feyth with seawater -add 2x more gasoline than you have added water -1 tiny little match -POTBF
-------- The BoB model is bad for business. Incidently the BoB model is more suited for a game such as WoW where as the ASCN model more suited for Eve.
McGreedy |
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Benny Hill
Caldari Deceased Inc
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:19:00 -
[71]
Originally by: SirMolle The Evidence
The Witnesses For outsiders, even neutrals, this whole endeavour meant new opportunity. The fall of one Empire may have displaced thousands from their home, but it has also given thousands more a chance to make theirs. Or simply profit from it. It would be against our interests to disturb the net balance, as we firmly believe 0.0 should be populated - even by those with no interests in alliance politics and warfare. To slander our residents and allies with terms like slavery ignores the situation present in most organizations.
The whole endeavour to many witnesses, shows that BoB cannot be trusted, and that it will turn stick a knife in any of its friends and allies. Calling BoB allies or friends slaves would be inaccuate. Calling them stupid would be accurate, because BoB will turn on them like they did ASCN.
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Arenis Xemdal
Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:25:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Benny Hill
The whole endeavour to many witnesses, shows that BoB cannot be trusted, and that it will turn stick a knife in any of its friends and allies. Calling BoB allies or friends slaves would be inaccuate. Calling them stupid would be accurate, because BoB will turn on them like they did ASCN.
[Here goes the complete opposite of everything written above.]
Now what?
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Celticjim
Minmatar The Shadow Order Storm Armada
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:25:00 -
[73]
Just a clarification. This line
"...laid siege to all 14 starbases in AZN-D2 in mid December and cut the heart from ASCN on Christmas Day"
Did you folks actually attack something on Christmas Day?
This isn't a value loaded question, just trying to think some stuff through.
CJ
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Gabba
Species 5618
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:26:00 -
[74]
"No requests to allies made" im not too sure about that. ASCN was occupied by ASCN only, 4800 i doubt it but sure why not, now go see who lives in BoB space and add them all up, add to that the people that moved into Paragon Soul 1 week after GQ2 and H8 fell.
ASCN deserved what it got, but no help, i like to disagree on that
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Arenis Xemdal
Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:27:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Celticjim Just a clarification. This line
"...laid siege to all 14 starbases in AZN-D2 in mid December and cut the heart from ASCN on Christmas Day"
Did you folks actually attack something on Christmas Day?
This isn't a value loaded question, just trying to think some stuff through.
CJ
Yes. Despite popular belief, more people play during the holidays, not less.
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Davlin Lotze
Raging Destruction
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:27:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Davlin Lotze on 05/01/2007 19:27:39
Originally by: Arenis Xemdal
Originally by: Davlin Lotze Credit is due obviously. Displacing ASCN from Feyth wasn't something that alot thought would be as easy as you made it seem. Well played.
But what I don't get still is why you cheapen your efforts and accomplishments with the Burn Eden-eqse forum spying and the other forms of out-of-game inflitration??? It just makes you look "low rent."
And with the rot from within that was the case with ASCN, the out of game stuff was even more unnecessary. Hell, just find any number of disgruntled current or former ASCN at the outset of this operation and utilize them.
The point here is two-fold, one to congratulate real accomplishment and two, to ask why turnaround and cheap it with stuff that's unnecessary? Wouldn't you come off as even more of a "eve juggernaut" if you eschewed the out of game crap and not inflitrate official alliance forums, TS, etc?
You think it cheapened the war, I claim otherwise. The spying was not necessary to win battles, but it allowed us to show EVE a massive discrepancy between ASCN's public and private personas. In private, BoB was the devil. In public, false respects and various other forms of pandering were shown.
Had ASCN refrained from making such posts in private, we would not have felt the need to expose and refute them in public. Had they not become so upset over the concept of spying, and accused its legitimacy in EVE, we would not have felt the need to continue doing it.
In the end, it was entertainment at their expense. Didn't have to be that way, but that will be a lesson to inherit.
You may have a point, but what you are not seeing is that there is a cost, tolled against your reputation, for EVEN LOOKING IN THE FIRST PLACE.
And my point is that objectively speaking you have alot to show other alliances in terms of how to maintain an internally strong organization.
Some of that gets lost or is contradicted by under the table, out of game, crap. "Just say no" and don't indulge in that "entertainment." The rotten will rot and fall before you irregardless!
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Tholarim
Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:29:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Dominie Dirtch How dare you put CA in that list you insignificant bug.
CA was not destroyed by anyone, least of all BoB, CA was destroyed by ego's and nothing more.
Actually Aneu,
CA died becus of you trying to join atuk in the first place.
oh the irony.
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Dominie Dirtch
Minmatar Revival.
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:31:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Tholarim
Originally by: Dominie Dirtch How dare you put CA in that list you insignificant bug.
CA was not destroyed by anyone, least of all BoB, CA was destroyed by ego's and nothing more.
Actually Aneu,
CA died becus of you trying to join atuk in the first place.
oh the irony.
Just because I'm in the same corp doesn't make me someone, im sure you will see RVV's member count go up quite a bit in the next few weeks. _________ My voice shall tear you asunder and show your vile ways. |
Arenis Xemdal
Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:31:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Gabba "No requests to allies made" im not too sure about that. ASCN was occupied by ASCN only, 4800 i doubt it but sure why not, now go see who lives in BoB space and add them all up, add to that the people that moved into Paragon Soul 1 week after GQ2 and H8 fell.
ASCN deserved what it got, but no help, i like to disagree on that
Residents moving in to profit from your fallen territories minutes after they become available does not constitute assistance in war. Even without a token population of NPCers and miners, it was our starbases and your inability to field dreadnaughts which prevented ASCN from retaking them.
You can disagree all you want, but you'd be wrong.
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Celticjim
Minmatar The Shadow Order Storm Armada
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:32:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Celticjim on 05/01/2007 19:32:37
Originally by: Arenis Xemdal
Originally by: Celticjim Just a clarification. This line
"...laid siege to all 14 starbases in AZN-D2 in mid December and cut the heart from ASCN on Christmas Day"
Did you folks actually attack something on Christmas Day?
This isn't a value loaded question, just trying to think some stuff through.
CJ
Yes. Despite popular belief, more people play during the holidays, not less.
I would agree with you on all days except Christmas day. Unfortunately I can't find the tracker link to check. Regardless, thanks for the response
CJ
(edit - sentence clarification)
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Ephemeral Waves
The Nine Gates Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:34:00 -
[81]
Originally by: xXBeatnikXx
Daskingtiger
I wasn't involved in the BoB/ASCN fighting but I saw this guy around enough. He was on the KB in every major engagement (usually several times) and kept going back for more regardless. He cruised through our area a couple of times and though he didn't survive the bubbles he put up a good fight and was a good sport about it.
Eph.
Kill Board | Recruiting
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Helganstandt
Finis Lumen
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:35:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Arenis Xemdal
No excusing necessary, you're free to cheer for anyone you like.
But in this war, BoB was initially outnumbered 4:1 (compare 100-150 in alliance chat to 400-500). Had ASCN pulled together in a proper manner, we would have struggled to find victory for many, many months. Its almost ridiculous to give them underdog status simply of their ignorance, when they had the pilots and resources to do anything. This is why few forces felt the need to jump and assist ASCN in their time of need. They were content in watching us dismantle a bigger force for the same reasons you cite here.
If a coalition of alliances comes to collectively assault our space, it will give us underdog status once more. When that happens, the coalition had better do the job right. Winning fights and taking our space might bring the humility you seek. But if we end up retaking it all and kicking the crap out of every invader, one by one, the dominance BoB has in EVE will never be in doubt ever again. Maybe I've said too much..
I wasn't necessarily refering to ASCN as being the underdogs in this particular conflict. I thought you two were fairly evenly matched, hence my dissapointment (can't get dissapointed if an underdog loses really). I was mainly refering to the goonswarm conflict, where I gained my dislike of BoB. You only become an underdog (in my opinion anyway) when you've been beaten and keep coming back for more. Redswarm will be the underdogs for instance when you guys finally clash skulls.
If a coalition comes to kill you, it's more that you're getting what you deserve (again, in my opinion, even if my opinions are irrational) than being underdogs that I can root for. Same as if ASCN had beaten you.
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Arenis Xemdal
Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:39:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Davlin Lotze
You may have a point, but what you are not seeing is that there is a cost, tolled against your reputation, for EVEN LOOKING IN THE FIRST PLACE.
And my point is that objectively speaking you have alot to show other alliances in terms of how to maintain an internally strong organization.
Some of that gets lost or is contradicted by under the table, out of game, crap. "Just say no" and don't indulge in that "entertainment." The rotten will rot and fall before you irregardless!
Tolled against our reputation.. really? BoB is a war machine, we make it our business to know everything about our enemies. Good and bad. Then exploit it to the fullest. I take immense pride in the exposure of internal ASCN delusions throughtout this war. For once, in my morally defficient career of infiltration, it was the right thing to do. If you and others don't feel that way, its not our reputation it tolls.
And you're a funny person to assume the monitoring of forums and voice comms through normal means is any less out of character than having them in the first place. You can't proclaim it to be metagaming or cheating only when it suits you. What excuses will be made when both are integrated into the client? You don't want to discuss this here, and now. It lacked merit the last fifty times the subject arose, today will be no different.
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Mahrin Skel
Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.05 20:04:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Celticjim Just a clarification. This line
"...laid siege to all 14 starbases in AZN-D2 in mid December and cut the heart from ASCN on Christmas Day"
Did you folks actually attack something on Christmas Day?
This isn't a value loaded question, just trying to think some stuff through.
CJ
When BoB attacked before Christmas, ASCN chose to set all of their POS to come out of reinforced within an hour of each other, just before DT Christmas Day. Presumably this was intended to take advantage of the difficulties of mounting a POS assault against so many POS in such a short period of time. However, BoB maintained a complete lockdown on the system, and ASCN was apparently unable to coordinate a capital hauling operation of sufficient scale to refill the towers with Strontium, with the result that all towers fell that day.
Throughout the war, ASCN consistantly underperformed militarily. Had they been able to maintain a K/D ratio of at least 1 to 3 (losing no more than three ships for each BoB ship they killed) it would have been an entirely different war. But at every major battle, BoB trounced them soundly, leaving the ASCN strategic goals unmet and putting a strain on logistics not even ASCN could overcome.
Strategically, they made some good moves, or at least the start of them. Choosing to take the battle to BoB was a good move, and making Fountain, Pure Blind, and Delve unhospitable to renters certainly had to have cost BoB considerable amounts of income. But trying to use an "island hopping" strategy from the viewpoint of capital ships (using logged-off cyno generator alts to get to PB and Delve) often turned around and bit them, the sheer amount of materiel that had to be moved meant that the movements were often noticed, and the cyno-net was broken at least three times in mid-operation.
Backing Celestial Apocalypse against Xelas in PNQ could have been a brilliant maneuver, except for two problems: It was too far from ASCN space to be taken seriously by BoB as a threat in comparison to the NPC stations in the same region, so it didn't draw BoB into a two-front war, and Celestial Apocalypse had no interest in the placing and maintenance of sufficient POS to secure the system and prevent Xelas from taking it back on their own. So ASCN was fighting a two-front war while BoB was only fighting one, and Paragon Soul fell as a result.
Losing the Titan and subsequently Cyvok seemed to break ASCN. Shortly afterwards, *large* Zydrine and Megacyte sell orders started going up all over Empire, driving the price of both minerals down to an extreme degree. In light of events as they have been related since, it's clear that what may have started as an effort to gain ISK to replace the Avatar and buy more ships soon turned into wholesale looting of the ASCN treasury. Defensive operations became strictly pro-forma, with no real hope of success, and those that heeded the high command's exhortations to keep fighting were merely pawns buying time for the looting.
The lesson of the ASCN/BoB war is that although money may be the sinews of war, without the muscle, bone, and brain to put it to effective use, it cannot win wars. Wars are contests of *will*, and you cannot simply buy determination.
--Dave
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Vince Draken
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.05 20:04:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Vince Draken on 05/01/2007 20:04:51
Originally by: Dominie Dirtch
Originally by: Amthrianius
Originally by: TrippyX Edited by: TrippyX on 05/01/2007 18:09:09
Originally by: Harisdrop I never realized how awesome you must feel. I guess your the first alliance to claim you destroyed an Alliance!
BoB didn't destroy ASCN.. ASCN destroyed itself.
I will point you to our corporations bio, go have a look.
Many alliances have said such to us, whether it be
PA NBSI CA FA Xetic the list goes on
Always Internal problems
How dare you put CA in that list you insignificant bug.
CA was not destroyed by anyone, least of all BoB, CA was destroyed by ego's and nothing more.
hi aneu
p.s. save your breath trying to convince anyone that this isn't your latest lame forum alt. Nine day old character with your writing style, who somehow knows about history of two years ago despite playing for nine days. Plus, if your member count goes up, I expect it to be in triplicates.
The above thoughts and statements are IC and should be taken as such. |
Saladin
Minmatar V I R I I Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2007.01.05 20:07:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Amthrianius
Originally by: TrippyX Edited by: TrippyX on 05/01/2007 18:09:09
Originally by: Harisdrop I never realized how awesome you must feel. I guess your the first alliance to claim you destroyed an Alliance!
BoB didn't destroy ASCN.. ASCN destroyed itself.
I will point you to our corporations bio, go have a look.
Many alliances have said such to us, whether it be
PA NBSI FA Xetic the list goes on
Always Internal problems
Corrected it for you. Bob was not there for most of the CA wars, and it definitely was not there at the end. ----
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Liu Kaskakka
PAK Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2007.01.05 20:08:00 -
[87]
gj
King Liu is RIGHT!!
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Will Fireblade
Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2007.01.05 20:11:00 -
[88]
Originally by: SirMolle
Soon, the Pendulum will swing again. Tick Tock.
Hopefully for someone who is worth it not some mining alliance with a few fighters in it.. So yeah if you ask me no big accomplisment there anyone with the logistics and firepower you have could do that. In the end like you said it was another POS war.
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Ma'kai
Two Brothers Mining Corp.
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Posted - 2007.01.05 20:13:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Arenis Xemdal
Originally by: Davlin Lotze
You may have a point, but what you are not seeing is that there is a cost, tolled against your reputation, for EVEN LOOKING IN THE FIRST PLACE.
And my point is that objectively speaking you have alot to show other alliances in terms of how to maintain an internally strong organization.
Some of that gets lost or is contradicted by under the table, out of game, crap. "Just say no" and don't indulge in that "entertainment." The rotten will rot and fall before you irregardless!
Tolled against our reputation.. really? BoB is a war machine, we make it our business to know everything about our enemies. Good and bad. Then exploit it to the fullest. I take immense pride in the exposure of internal ASCN delusions throughtout this war. For once, in my morally defficient career of infiltration, it was the right thing to do. If you and others don't feel that way, its not our reputation it tolls.
And you're a funny person to assume the monitoring of forums and voice comms through normal means is any less out of character than having them in the first place. You can't proclaim it to be metagaming or cheating only when it suits you. What excuses will be made when both are integrated into the client? You don't want to discuss this here, and now. It lacked merit the last fifty times the subject arose, today will be no different.
The reason why most people don't like the fact that BoB spied and posted private forums is that the reason it was done was to HUMILATE ASCN. You even said it yourself. It was Pure Entertainment. Whats even funnier is watching all the /respect from BoB after Gungkiller posted the surrender. Why say one thing when your actions during the war were completely the opposite?
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Moostang
Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2007.01.05 20:19:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Arenis Xemdal
BoB was initially outnumbered 4:1 (compare 100-150 in alliance chat to 400-500). Had ASCN pulled together in a proper manner, we would have struggled to find victory for many, many months.
First of all, Props to BOB, you did what had to and got the job done. The following are my views and opinions as the war started and progressed.
In the begging we were of high spirits and it was easy to get 200+ gangs going to combat Bob. However, everytime I was in a gang of that magnitude we were not able to fight because nodes would crash before I could see any hostiles. For me, this was my biggest discouragement throughout the entire war. (The titan loss was nothing to me. It wasnt utilized like it should have been anyway.) It's pointless to constantly use our strength (our numbers) if we couldnt really use them due to node crashes. "All Hands" call would go out and i'd constantly here "what's the point, node cant handle all of us anyway", which is true, at least for everytime I participated in large gang engagements. I would have gladly continued to fight on a daily basis if the server stability could handle it, but it cant. I can goto Jita and see 800 people in system only to experience mid-ranged lag yet we couldnt field 150+ people in any 0.0 system without the node crashing....it got old...quick. Lag was never a problem for me, just node crashes.
I'd have to say that the most fun I had was in my t1 frig with 5 fighters assigned, along with the other frig pilots and eleventy billion fighters. It was a blast to take H8 station back with only a clusterfudge of fighters (i have a nice screen shot of that).
We had anticipated the Bob attack months in advance (heard about it for that long atleast). We prepared our industrial arses by setting up outposts so that when constellation sovernty came out it would protect us. This of course was postponed by CCP which threw our defense out the window.
From my point of view there is very little to balance the differences of a hard-core pvp alliance such as BOB vs a super-industrial alliance such as ASCN. Before Kali, our t1 fitted bs fleets were obviously no match for Bob's superior t2 fitted sniping bs's. Post Kali t2 nerfs helped but I think our motivation was already dead by then, especially with const. sov. postponed.
It was very sad that BoB, half our size, could field such a large dread fleet, yet the most I ever saw of ours was 7.
Good fight BoB. You've earned your prize.
[CLS] Moostang Celestial Horizon "G" Spot Division Ascendant Frontier |
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