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Hilti Enaka
State War Academy Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2015.11.17 02:29:23 -
[1] - Quote
Over the years of playing eve I guess one part of the game that not only fills me with satisfaction when things go to plan but it also irritates the hell out of me, is there too much EWAR in the game?
I get that warp disruptors / scramblers and webifiers are to tie a ship down and this makes players think more about their decision to engage but personally that's the problem right there, it's made the game dull and boring because everyone has become very risk averse and will only engage in content when they are in a massive blob, why does a target need to be "locked down" .
Part of choosing to fight should also be the ability to flee but how can you do such a thing when you have 15 points stopping you and 15 webs making you go 0.4 km/s. Add jammers and a 5m ship can prevent a 3bil ship from even being able to fight back or get out.
I don't know about the majority of the people who play this game but the majority of the people i play with are all in agreement that there is too much EWAR in the game and this prevents people from "flirting" with battle and decide to play it safe.
I've been playing the game a long time and the things that once made the game fun have all been labelled with the "overpowered" title and seen the hammer come down them. I'm not saying that the result was less interesting but I think over the years this has pushed eve down a path that means the only content to have forces people into the the 10-1 outnumber fleets.
Anyway it's not a rant i'm genuinely interested to find out what the player base things of EWAR. I wish they'd redesign the hole thing to make EWAR more a active managed task then just turning on a module.
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AtramLolipop
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2015.11.17 02:44:04 -
[2] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:Over the years of playing eve I guess one part of the game that not only fills me with satisfaction when things go to plan but it also irritates the hell out of me, is there too much EWAR in the game?
I get that warp disruptors / scramblers and webifiers are to tie a ship down and this makes players think more about their decision to engage but personally that's the problem right there, it's made the game dull and boring because everyone has become very risk averse and will only engage in content when they are in a massive blob, why does a target need to be "locked down" .
Part of choosing to fight should also be the ability to flee but how can you do such a thing when you have 15 points stopping you and 15 webs making you go 0.4 km/s. Add jammers and a 5m ship can prevent a 3bil ship from even being able to fight back or get out.
I don't know about the majority of the people who play this game but the majority of the people i play with are all in agreement that there is too much EWAR in the game and this prevents people from "flirting" with battle and decide to play it safe.
I've been playing the game a long time and the things that once made the game fun have all been labelled with the "overpowered" title and seen the hammer come down them. I'm not saying that the result was less interesting but I think over the years this has pushed eve down a path that means the only content to have forces people into the the 10-1 outnumber fleets.
Anyway it's not a rant i'm genuinely interested to find out what the player base things of EWAR. I wish they'd redesign the hole thing to make EWAR more a active managed task then just turning on a module.
I'd like to see EWAR modules move to a reactivated timer. Not all modules but perhaps jams, webs and neuts. 5 seconds on 5 seconds off type thing. Perhaps also include having a penalty to the amount of disruptors on a ship has the averse affect to combat the blobs. I know from my own mentality there are many decisions now a person needs to compute to "have fun" and for a game it's making it very complicated and hard to enjoy. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
40833
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Posted - 2015.11.17 02:53:36 -
[3] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:...is there too much EWAR in the game? Not in my opinion. Some of it could really use a good balance pass (eg. jams), but overall the ewar adds to the variety and depth of the game and provides an advantage to knowledgeable pilots, which is ideal.
Just my 0.02 of course.
Quote:...because everyone has become very risk averse and will only engage in content when they are in a massive blob, why does a target need to be "locked down" . Not in my experience and targets need to be locked down:
1. so they can't just disengage 2. so that they can be slowed to control range 3. so they can be slowed to allow weapons to apply effectively
The variety that scrams, disruptors, MWD, AB, webs, etc. provide make fitting important and give multiple choices to how to approach a combat situation. I only see positives in the variety as it means combat is way more than just one fit, press F1.
Quote:Part of choosing to fight should also be the ability to flee but how can you do such a thing when you have 15 points stopping you and 15 webs making you go 0.4 km/s. Add jammers and a 5m ship can prevent a 3bil ship from even being able to fight back or get out. 15 v 1 sounds like you need more friends. That's an unfortunate situation we all find ourselves in occasionally and no amount of gtfo ability of your ship is going to have much hope except jumping a gate or docking against opponents where they are all engaged.
But, having your own equivalent fleet evens things up considerably.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
326
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Posted - 2015.11.17 03:06:09 -
[4] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:..... how can you do such a thing when you have 15 points stopping you and 15 webs making you go 0.4 km/s....
If you're held down by 15 points and 15 webs, you have far more serious problems than any balance issues with EWAR.
FYI: Jams can also be used DEFENSIVELY. I regularly fly a Kitsune in a small gang. The other day, our Sleipner pilot got himself tackled on a gate. I warped back to that gate at range, jammed the tackler and we both got out.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
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Netan MalDoran
Last Garrison
131
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Posted - 2015.11.17 07:14:41 -
[5] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote: Part of choosing to fight should also be the ability to flee but how can you do such a thing when you have 15 points stopping you and 15 webs making you go 0.4 km/s. Add jammers and a 5m ship can prevent a 3bil ship from even being able to fight back or get out.
Might I suggest an E-Uni course in D-Scanning?
"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
40839
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Posted - 2015.11.17 07:18:42 -
[6] - Quote
Netan MalDoran wrote:Might I suggest an E-Uni course in D-Scanning? Well tbh, d-scanning does have its limits.
He'd be better off doing the E-Uni course in 'How to Blob".
Then he'd be the 15 and not the 1.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Netan MalDoran
Last Garrison
131
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Posted - 2015.11.17 07:20:25 -
[7] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Netan MalDoran wrote:Might I suggest an E-Uni course in D-Scanning? Well tbh, d-scanning does have its limits. He'd be better off doing the E-Uni course in 'How to Blob". Then he'd be the 15 and not the 1.
Still, I solo PvP in FW all the time and I now very rarely get blobbed, even gate camps aren't a worry.
"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
40839
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Posted - 2015.11.17 07:26:50 -
[8] - Quote
Netan MalDoran wrote:Still, I solo PvP in FW all the time and I now very rarely get blobbed, even gate camps aren't a worry. Yes, I agree with you.
It's relatively easy to find solo and small gang fights at the moment.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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d0cTeR9
Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance
278
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Posted - 2015.11.17 07:34:04 -
[9] - Quote
There is too much awar and it's about to get even worst.
Been around since the beginning.
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Yockerbow
Aliastra Gallente Federation
52
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Posted - 2015.11.17 08:15:21 -
[10] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote: (words) it's made the game dull and boring because everyone has become very risk averse and will only engage in content when they are in a massive blob, why does a target need to be "locked down" .
Part of choosing to fight should also be the ability to flee but how can you do such a thing when you have 15 points stopping you and 15 webs making you go 0.4 km/s. Add jammers and a 5m ship can prevent a 3bil ship from even being able to fight back or get out. (words)
Holy crap, you went straight from griping about people being risk averse to griping about not being able to run away whenever you want. I'm impressed. |
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Deimos UK
Fat Dragon Mining Co. Darwinism.
31
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Posted - 2015.11.17 08:32:59 -
[11] - Quote
How strange I was thinking about this only yesterday. I am by no means a "vet" player but I do agree EWAR takes the fun out of combat. I was happily fitting my Vindicator when I thought to myself, this will never even get used. So I immediately sold it. Reason (in my mind at least) being that I knew for a definitive fact anyone who engaged me would just pin me down (using EWAR) and orbit at range or just jam me. No way in hell would I have the dream 1v1 fair fight. Unfortunately I am learning that PvP in Eve is actually GvP (gang). This sentiment is echoed by the numerous friends I had who played Evebut quit:
"You spend months training g up racial gunnery skills believing you will have Babylon 5 style battles. What actually happens, is your ship is sat immobile while you casually watch your cap and HP dwindle without fight".
My nieve noob thoughts on the subject; evolve Eve to the point where you can target specific subsystems. Ie target propulsion - propulsion the. Takes damage similar to overheating modules. This would also incur a skill based piloting system, both defensive and offensive as the propulsion would be at the rear of the ship. Just an idea and probably one I will get flamed for. |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
216
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Posted - 2015.11.17 10:23:17 -
[12] - Quote
Deimos UK wrote:How strange I was thinking about this only yesterday. I am by no means a "vet" player but I do agree EWAR takes the fun out of combat. I was happily fitting my Vindicator when I thought to myself, this will never even get used. So I immediately sold it. Reason (in my mind at least) being that I knew for a definitive fact anyone who engaged me would just pin me down (using EWAR) and orbit at range or just jam me. No way in hell would I have the dream 1v1 fair fight. Unfortunately I am learning that PvP in Eve is actually GvP (gang). This sentiment is echoed by the numerous friends I had who played Evebut quit:
"You spend months training g up racial gunnery skills believing you will have Babylon 5 style battles. What actually happens, is your ship is sat immobile while you casually watch your cap and HP dwindle without fight".
My nieve noob thoughts on the subject; evolve Eve to the point where you can target specific subsystems. Ie target propulsion - propulsion the. Takes damage similar to overheating modules. This would also incur a skill based piloting system, both defensive and offensive as the propulsion would be at the rear of the ship. Just an idea and probably one I will get flamed for.
This is the wrong attitude.
Solo vs gangs is out there and happening as we speak, you have to pick your targets wisely, expect to get blobbed, relish in the highs of victory and prepare yourself for defeats. There is nothing and i mean nothing quite like jumping into a 15 man gang and tearing the ground from beneath them. |
Divine Entervention
Rational Chaos Inc. Phoebe Freeport Republic
789
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Posted - 2015.11.17 10:51:18 -
[13] - Quote
Nice, maybe we'll start seeing reliance on electronic superiority modules. |
Dagnar
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2015.11.17 10:54:53 -
[14] - Quote
Jamming has been one of the least fun things in this game for a long time. Sure it's great to jam someone with all the power it makes you feel that the person cannot fight for at least 20 seconds, and probably longer with successive jams. However, it is absolutely crap for the jammed person. You don't even get a chance to do some damage or even fight back. |
Divine Entervention
Rational Chaos Inc. Phoebe Freeport Republic
789
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 11:03:11 -
[15] - Quote
Dagnar wrote:Jamming has been one of the least fun things in this game for a long time. Sure it's great to jam someone with all the power it makes you feel that the person cannot fight for at least 20 seconds, and probably longer with successive jams. However, it is absolutely crap for the jammed person. You don't even get a chance to do some damage or even fight back.
yea, i guess that person who's getting jammed should've bought a module to increase his sensor strength.
I mean like, since the players themselves have the ability to augment their susceptibility to jams yet choose not to, might as well ask CCP to remove jamming all together to save us from having to make a choice. |
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra Gallente Federation
453
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Posted - 2015.11.17 13:11:17 -
[16] - Quote
Ewar is perfectly fine minus the ugly duckling ECM.
I still say that ECM should be made into a constant effect like all other ewar modules and be based on sensor strength/resolution versus signature radius.
This would essentially turn ECM into a ewar type that is used in order to hide smaller ships from (mainly) bigger targets.
It would also require multiple ECM's on a target in order to achieve the same effect ECM has today - that is not being able to lock anything at all - a fair tradeoff for removing the chance based system and making it into a constant effect if you ask me.
This would solve so many problems with ECM because, let's be honest. It is the randomness combined with the binary no effect to complete helplessness which pisses people off. If the complete helplessness is the result of effort instead of random luck then no one will have anything to complain about. You tend to be screwed if you have 10 damps or 10 painters on you and people accept this after all. |
AtramLolipop
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2015.11.17 14:13:42 -
[17] - Quote
Yockerbow wrote:Hilti Enaka wrote: (words) it's made the game dull and boring because everyone has become very risk averse and will only engage in content when they are in a massive blob, why does a target need to be "locked down" .
Part of choosing to fight should also be the ability to flee but how can you do such a thing when you have 15 points stopping you and 15 webs making you go 0.4 km/s. Add jammers and a 5m ship can prevent a 3bil ship from even being able to fight back or get out. (words) Holy crap, you went straight from griping about people being risk averse to griping about not being able to run away whenever you want. I'm impressed.
I don't think OP did, we all know the situation when it comes to engaging and finding out there is a 20 man blob coming for you there is a difference and I wouldn't call your "not being able to run away" being risk averse. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
9140
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Posted - 2015.11.17 14:32:03 -
[18] - Quote
Because of Falcon
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1648
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Posted - 2015.11.17 14:46:07 -
[19] - Quote
I mostly play solo (and/or with alts) and run into Ewar quite often, it can be REALLY annoying. Then again, I use Ewar myself and as I'm not a hypocrite that means that if I'm fine with using it I'm also fine with it being used against me. On top of that I see no problems in some zero tactics, headfirst small group/fleet full of "dps ships" to be completely and utterly destroyed by a way more tactical mix of both dps and Ewar.
Having said that, there IS an issue with "20 Celestis/Blackbirds lol" (can you tell I never do large clown fleets? :P) and honestly I see no real way to change that without completely neutering Ewar as a whole. |
ll Kuray ll
The Scope Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2015.11.17 14:54:15 -
[20] - Quote
Too much EWAR specifically Jams.
Too easy for a 500k ship to sit jamming a 500m boat, to make it worse 500k x 25 jams just makes it pointless.
Ewar should be stacked the same way rigs have.
EWAR should be Frigate size, bc size and bs size. |
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12948
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:04:00 -
[21] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Part of choosing to fight should also be the ability to flee but how can you do such a thing when you have 15 points stopping you and 15 webs making you go 0.4 km/s. Add jammers and a 5m ship can prevent a 3bil ship from even being able to fight back or get out.
Which is the fault of the guy with the 3 bil ship that didn't properly prepare for the eventuality of 5 mil tackle ships. Smart Bombs, ECCM, ECM drones, Energy Neutralizers, Target lock breakers on Battleships and MJDs on battleships and BCs, MWD cloak trick in low sec (or high sec if you are war decced).
My Ratting Machariel got tied down by a Ceptor that lit a cyno a few weeks ago while I was running Sanctums. He ate a large neut and an ecm burst from my ratting mach and then met my ecm drones and autocannons. He managed to drop 4 BLOPs before he died, but I was in a fleet, i overheated my tank, my buddies (in their ratting/Rescue Domis and Ravens) landed and chased them off. Wish one of us had a point, we would have killed a blops lol.
TL;DR there isn't too much EWAR in the game, there is too much excuse making by people who can't be arsed to prepare themselves to survive the "always on" pvp nature of this game.
On a side note, i really hate it when people "ask a question" when it's really an opinion. The OP isn't asking if there is too much EWAR in the game, he's telling us there is. |
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
466
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:25:03 -
[22] - Quote
Gillia Winddancer wrote:Ewar is perfectly fine minus the ugly duckling ECM. (snip) It would also require multiple ECM's on a target in order to achieve the same effect ECM has today - that is not being able to lock anything at all - a fair tradeoff for removing the chance based system and making it into a constant effect if you ask me. (snip)
I would rather have a boost to remote ECCM as a hard counter to ECM. Since there are several dedicated ECM ships, why not have dedicated ECCM ships too ?
Also, can someone explain what this thread is about?-á (Relax ! I'm just quoting Holgrak Blacksmith here.)
When life gives you lemons, swap letters and poof: melons, solemn melons.
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Doc J
Assisted Homicide
18
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:34:25 -
[23] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Hilti Enaka wrote:
Part of choosing to fight should also be the ability to flee but how can you do such a thing when you have 15 points stopping you and 15 webs making you go 0.4 km/s. Add jammers and a 5m ship can prevent a 3bil ship from even being able to fight back or get out.
Which is the fault of the guy with the 3 bil ship that didn't properly prepare for the eventuality of 5 mil tackle ships. Smart Bombs, ECCM, ECM drones, Energy Neutralizers, Target lock breakers on Battleships and MJDs on battleships and BCs, MWD cloak trick in low sec (or high sec if you are war decced). My Ratting Machariel got tied down by a Ceptor that lit a cyno a few weeks ago while I was running Sanctums. He ate a large neut and an ecm burst from my ratting mach and then met my ecm drones and autocannons. He managed to drop 4 BLOPs before he died, but I was in a fleet, i overheated my tank, my buddies (in their ratting/Rescue Domis and Ravens) landed and chased them off. Wish one of us had a point, we would have killed a blops lol. TL;DR there isn't too much EWAR in the game, there is too much excuse making by people who can't be arsed to prepare themselves to survive the "always on" pvp nature of this game. On a side note, i really hate it when people "ask a question" when it's really an opinion. The OP isn't asking if there is too much EWAR in the game, he's telling us there is.
Strong coming from a blob alliance.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12948
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:36:28 -
[24] - Quote
Doc J wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Hilti Enaka wrote:
Part of choosing to fight should also be the ability to flee but how can you do such a thing when you have 15 points stopping you and 15 webs making you go 0.4 km/s. Add jammers and a 5m ship can prevent a 3bil ship from even being able to fight back or get out.
Which is the fault of the guy with the 3 bil ship that didn't properly prepare for the eventuality of 5 mil tackle ships. Smart Bombs, ECCM, ECM drones, Energy Neutralizers, Target lock breakers on Battleships and MJDs on battleships and BCs, MWD cloak trick in low sec (or high sec if you are war decced). My Ratting Machariel got tied down by a Ceptor that lit a cyno a few weeks ago while I was running Sanctums. He ate a large neut and an ecm burst from my ratting mach and then met my ecm drones and autocannons. He managed to drop 4 BLOPs before he died, but I was in a fleet, i overheated my tank, my buddies (in their ratting/Rescue Domis and Ravens) landed and chased them off. Wish one of us had a point, we would have killed a blops lol. TL;DR there isn't too much EWAR in the game, there is too much excuse making by people who can't be arsed to prepare themselves to survive the "always on" pvp nature of this game. On a side note, i really hate it when people "ask a question" when it's really an opinion. The OP isn't asking if there is too much EWAR in the game, he's telling us there is. Strong coming from a blob alliance.
I am not an alliance. |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1648
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 16:06:11 -
[25] - Quote
Honestly, if you're part of a group you obviously agree to that group's mentality, capabilities and actions. Otherwise why be there? |
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12948
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 16:12:07 -
[26] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Honestly, if you're part of a group you obviously agree to that group's mentality, capabilities and actions. Otherwise why be there?
What does that have to do with anything? We are talking about an OP that complains about EWAR (while most likely not using the myriad tools the game provides to negate the affect of EWAR), not what alliance my corp is in. I imagine this is what happens to every poster who happens to be in Goons, and i can see why it's annoying.\
My posts and opinions are mine, that have nothing whatsoever to do with my Alliance. |
Valacus
Streets of Fire
14
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Posted - 2015.11.17 16:40:55 -
[27] - Quote
Jams may need more balancing, but tackle EWAR is a necessity. It's not like there isn't enough kiting in EVE Online as it is. Remove or nerf webs and scrams and it will be kiting online all day, every day. Now instead of getting blobbed, you just get run around the field by Orthrus's and Cynabals who always warp away whenever they get anywhere near danger and have nothing to fear from slower ships, even those supported by tacklers. That does not sound like an improvement. "Blobbing" is a part of every MMO. Numbers provide safety. You can't change that and you shouldn't try to. Massive fleet fights are a staple of the game. |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1648
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Posted - 2015.11.17 16:44:26 -
[28] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Honestly, if you're part of a group you obviously agree to that group's mentality, capabilities and actions. Otherwise why be there? What does that have to do with anything? We are talking about an OP that complains about EWAR (while most likely not using the myriad tools the game provides to negate the affect of EWAR), not what alliance my corp is in. I imagine this is what happens to every poster who happens to be in Goons, and i can see why it's annoying.\ My posts and opinions are mine, that have nothing whatsoever to do with my Alliance.
With the ongoing discussion not much at all. But this whole "yeah well, I don't at all affiliate myself with the people I choose to be with" is just hilarious nonsense. Otherwise I could be part of the K K K but when confronted with it go "yes well, I don't actually agree with what they're doing, you see". It's just as silly. |
Hilti Enaka
State War Academy Caldari State
24
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Posted - 2015.11.17 17:03:21 -
[29] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Honestly, if you're part of a group you obviously agree to that group's mentality, capabilities and actions. Otherwise why be there? What does that have to do with anything? We are talking about an OP that complains about EWAR (while most likely not using the myriad tools the game provides to negate the affect of EWAR), not what alliance my corp is in. I imagine this is what happens to every poster who happens to be in Goons, and i can see why it's annoying.\ My posts and opinions are mine, that have nothing whatsoever to do with my Alliance.
Jenn as i user of EWAR I |
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12948
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 17:03:34 -
[30] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Honestly, if you're part of a group you obviously agree to that group's mentality, capabilities and actions. Otherwise why be there? What does that have to do with anything? We are talking about an OP that complains about EWAR (while most likely not using the myriad tools the game provides to negate the affect of EWAR), not what alliance my corp is in. I imagine this is what happens to every poster who happens to be in Goons, and i can see why it's annoying.\ My posts and opinions are mine, that have nothing whatsoever to do with my Alliance. With the ongoing discussion not much at all. But this whole "yeah well, I don't at all affiliate myself with the people I choose to be with" is just hilarious nonsense. Otherwise I could be part of the K K K but when confronted with it go "yes well, I don't actually agree with what they're doing, you see". It's just as silly.
I never said anyhting about agreeing or not agreeing, I said i am not my alliance. If people in my alliance are doing something in violation of the EULA, then i disagree. If what they are doing is legal within the rules of the game, then I don't care. The irrational prejudice against "blobbers" usualyl comes from overly egotistical solo/small gang players who think they are special, and I'm saying that you can't judge me based on your own irrational prejudices.
If you have a problem with my opinion, address my opinion. Hiding behind that "look at what imaginary space group you are in" is beyond stupid. |
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