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Anabolo
Omni Source Corp
1
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Posted - 2015.11.20 18:56:49 -
[1] - Quote
Need some friendly help!
Back from a few years break and much is new I see. On weekdays a have limited time to play, kids, basic chores etc so I like to mine hi sec, its relaxing for me zero action. On weekends I do pve missions thats my fun time. So Im about to step into a mining barge, should I go into ice mining or stick with commong ore mining? I want to max out my isk/h while with above conditions ofc.
Any help advice would be greatly appriciated |
Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
2063
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Posted - 2015.11.20 20:15:43 -
[2] - Quote
I don't really do much of either of those, but the way people zerg to ice belts when they spawn seems to indicate they have value. Here are some calculators that seem pretty reliable. Fuzzworks is pretty awesome.
https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ore/ https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ore/ice.html
@ChainsawPlankto
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Paranoid Loyd
7515
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Posted - 2015.11.20 20:56:26 -
[3] - Quote
Yeah, if you don't have much time and don't want to put in too much effort stick with mining. Ice mining is much more comptettive and a steady supply of ice can be difficult to come by especially if your time is limited. If you don't want to get ganked use a Procurer with a good tank.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Amanda Chan
Tyrant's Short Bus Syndicate
59
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Posted - 2015.11.20 21:31:01 -
[4] - Quote
IIRC Ore mining out earns ice mining by a fair margin. http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore is a nice site that gives you an idea of what ores to target.
Personally when I mined in hi-sec I usually went for out of the way systems. Where local was quiet or I knew the residents. In all the years I did hi-sec mining I only got ganked 3 times...all by the same people who was probably upset they couldn't dunk my hulks.
That said when mining, I usually advise against a survey scanner and just use it the slot for extra tank. You should go with a buffer tank over active tank and focus against kin/them. Don't be afraid to use deadspace shield amplifiers. They're passive resist and pretty cheap considering the price of an exhumer hull. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
949
|
Posted - 2015.11.21 02:16:56 -
[5] - Quote
ganking is definitely a pretty big thing now. You will want to get familiar with who the main gankers are like CODE. and set them as red. Also probably want to pick a less crowded system something out of the way. That will mean more hauling and / or lower Ore values but you'll have more ore to mine and less chances of running into gankers.
You'll have to balance isk earning potential against loss potential. If you aim for make isk / hour you'll likely loose more ships and if they are expensive that could be counter productive. |
Paranoid Loyd
7524
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Posted - 2015.11.21 03:06:10 -
[6] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:ganking is definitely a pretty big thing now. Don't confuse people rubbing it in your face with it actually being more popular than ever. It has always been a big thing.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
949
|
Posted - 2015.11.21 03:52:59 -
[7] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:ganking is definitely a pretty big thing now. Don't confuse people rubbing it in your face with it actually being more popular than ever. It has always been a big thing. Ganking of miners was no where near as big of a thing when I first started playing as it is now. As a matter of fact shoot at miners in general is a way bigger thing that it used to be. When I first started playing this game I belonged to a mining corp that would clear entire solar systems of ore withing single digit jumps of jita. Now-a-days if you have more than two or three mining barges in the same system that are in the same corp you are almost guaranteed a war dec within the following 24 hours.
Yes miner ganking and harassment happened back then. I'm not saying it did not. I'm just saying the rate at which it happens has increased several exponential factors since I started playing in early 2009. So for someone like the OP that left the game for a while I felt it was worth pointing out to him. |
Paranoid Loyd
7525
|
Posted - 2015.11.21 04:06:06 -
[8] - Quote
You have to understand that your situational awareness is not anywhere near where it is now. So no offence but you can't claim it was less then, than it is now because your understanding of the game and awareness of the danger in general is much different, add in the CODE. propaganda factor and it just seems like there is more ganking going on. Unfortunately running the numbers according to the killboard can't work because of many factors, but the big one is that it now takes considerably more firepower to kill things. Fact of the matter is, without an official report from CCP we are both just speculating. The last official report said it was down, granted that was a while ago now.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Netan MalDoran
Last Garrison
131
|
Posted - 2015.11.21 04:11:14 -
[9] - Quote
1: Dont mine >:) 2: If you must mine, then ice is usually worth more (Atleast in highsec), back when I started the game, I would mine Massive Scordite for the best profitable ore (I think this changed) then mined ice when it came up (Hauling it is a ***** though).
"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!
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Anabolo
Omni Source Corp
1
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Posted - 2015.11.21 05:39:08 -
[10] - Quote
Thank you all for your input much appriciated |
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Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
2067
|
Posted - 2015.11.21 07:15:49 -
[11] - Quote
mining barges can be fit for stupid amounts of HP now, concord response times got buffed a few times, and insurance for concord kills got removed. Pulling data and looking at gank trends would be fun. I really have no idea if it has gotten better/worse. Just being aware gankers exist makes it much easier to avoid, and if they do bring enough people to kill your 100k ehp skiff, it is worth the laugh.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
2068
|
Posted - 2015.11.21 07:37:20 -
[12] - Quote
I looked through my mails earlier today and remember seeing one about hulkageddon. given the debate in this thread I figured it was worth looking when that was sent.
Hulkageddon II (3B isk prize!) From: Helicity Boson Sent: 2009.12.20 14:23
I must admit I don't really remember miner ganking being a thing before the first hulkageddon. that said can baiting was all over the place, people trying to trick miners into getting a timer so they could shoot at em. and a few people trying to bait can flippers in pvp fit barges. Maybe a few people doing ganks for laughs, but over all most were trying to can bait and not straight up gank. I did join in for a few in late 2008 according to battleclinic. Possibly the first hulkageddon? More recently the destroyer buffs certainly made it far more accessible, especially for the period between the destroyer buffs and before the mining barge HP buffs. Then CODE. made something of a business out of it. I thought it was funny once in a while when it wasn't really a thing, now that it is a thing, well its boring. And these days I like miners, they make my ships cheaper!
@ChainsawPlankto
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
52420
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Posted - 2015.11.21 08:16:13 -
[13] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:mining barges can be fit for stupid amounts of HP now, concord response times got buffed a few times, and insurance for concord kills got removed. Pulling data and looking at gank trends would be fun. I really have no idea if it has gotten better/worse. Just being aware gankers exist makes it much easier to avoid, and if they do bring enough people to kill your 100k ehp skiff, it is worth the laugh. Well, let's see, the slot and attribute re-balance done to Mining Barges was pitiful to say the least, the Insurance payout nerf was nothing more than a failed gesture from CCP trying to appease and silence the outrage coming from the mining community. Concord Response times getting buffed ? Only buff I heard about was gankers could no longer jump around on grid destroying multiple ships after Concord showed up.
Let's not forgot to include Destroyers got DPS buff, Tags for Security Increase was implemented, small class ships got buff to agility and warp speed, T3 Battlecruisers and T3 Destroyers were added to the game with increased DPS, Ice Belts were reduced in size and changed into Cosmic Anomaly with spawn life of 4 hrs, Cosmic Signature Grav / Ore sites were changed into Cosmic Anomaly. All ships can now view and warp to Cosmic Anomaly without needing to fit probe launcher.
Yeah, sorry but I just don't see that as a buff to the Mining Industry. What I see is a buff to the Ganking Industry.
ergherhdfgh wrote: Ganking of miners was no where near as big of a thing when I first started playing as it is now. As a matter of fact shoot at miners in general is a way bigger thing that it used to be. When I first started playing this game I belonged to a mining corp that would clear entire solar systems of ore withing single digit jumps of jita. Now-a-days if you have more than two or three mining barges in the same system that are in the same corp you are almost guaranteed a war dec within the following 24 hours.
Yes miner ganking and harassment happened back then. I'm not saying it did not. I'm just saying the rate at which it happens has increased several exponential factors since I started playing in early 2009. So for someone like the OP that left the game for a while I felt it was worth pointing out to him.
I agree 100% and then some. I started playing this game in 2008 and there was always Mining ships in Asteroid Belts. Was an awesome sight to see a fleet of Mining ships at work. Rarely ever heard of a Suicide Gank happening. Wasn't till after the Hulkageddon contests (3 yrs in a row) that suicide ganking mining ships in high sec started to become a full time career choice, mainly due to how easy and cheap it was to do.
Course that career choice took a while to gain attention and after it did, it spread like wildfire and became one of the main game-play activities currently being promoted. Hell, I even started selling Bookmarks of Cosmic Signature Grav / Ore sites to Hulk/Orca fleets when it first gained notoriety but thanks to all the changes made to the game which I listed above basically cut that career short.
So yeah, this whole ganking career thing is definitely a more recent development and should be brought to the attention of returning mining characters.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
951
|
Posted - 2015.11.21 13:08:52 -
[14] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:You have to understand that your situational awareness is not anywhere near where it is now. So no offence but you can't claim it was less then, than it is now because your understanding of the game and awareness of the danger in general is much different, add in the CODE. propaganda factor and it just seems like there is more ganking going on. Unfortunately running the numbers according to the killboard can't work because of many factors, but the big one is that it now takes considerably more firepower to kill things. Fact of the matter is, without an official report from CCP we are both just speculating. Your character was made in 2013. The time frame that I am talking about exists long before that. So unless you were playing back then on a different character I would not expect you to understand.
DeMichael
Yes miner ganking and harassment happened back then. I'm not saying it did not. I'm just saying the rate at which it happens has increased several exponential factors since I started playing in early 2009. So for someone like the OP that left the game for a while I felt it was worth pointing out to him.[/quote wrote: I agree 100% and then some. I started playing this game in 2008 and there was always Mining ships in Asteroid Belts. Was an awesome sight to see a fleet of Mining ships at work. Rarely ever heard of a Suicide Gank happening. Wasn't till after the Hulkageddon contests (3 yrs in a row) that suicide ganking mining ships in high sec started to become a full time career choice, mainly due to how easy and cheap it was to do.
Course that career choice took a while to gain attention and after it did, it spread like wildfire and became one of the main game-play activities currently being promoted. Hell, I even started selling Bookmarks of Cosmic Signature Grav / Ore sites to Hulk/Orca fleets when it first gained notoriety but thanks to all the changes made to the game which I listed above basically cut that career short.
So yeah, this whole ganking career thing is definitely a more recent development and should be brought to the attention of returning mining characters.
DMC
DMC is exactly right on here. I could not have said it better myself. For high sec miners who have been around a while there is most certainly a before and after Hulkaggedon. If you minned back then and now you'd know it and Lyod and I would not be having this conversation because he would know as well.
Again I say I was in a large mining corp that mined within about 3 or 4 jumps of Osmon, which currently is probably the busiest non-hub system in game. We had large mining Ops once per week and had at least a handful of hulks mining together at pretty much any day during US TZ prime time.
People tried to can flip us yes that mechanic happened but even that only happened in the busier systems.
Fastforward to post Hulkaggedon and we all had to start minning solo because literally every single time we had a minning Op we would get war deced within 24 hours. We tried moving around and going to less busy systems we tried everything but we literally could no longer run high sec mining Ops. At that point we started solo mining which meant gone was the Orca boosts and having fleet haulers an such that in and of it's self is a huge defacto mining nerf right there.
So once we started solo mining it wasn't that much longer that hearing people in corp chat coming back from a pee break to have their pod floating in a asteroid belt next to some concord spawns became a regular occurrence.
The change to the life of high sec miners before and after Hulkaggedon is so extreme that is you have played on both sides of it you would not debate otherwise.
Keep in mind I'm not complaining. The total annihilation of large high sec mining corp and mining op lifestyle is what got me to move to null sec. I am definitely happier in null sec and glad things turned out as they did. I no longer mine but not because I can't mine in null sec it's just that running anoms is far more profitable and before the loot and reprocessing nerfs I could actually get more minerals mining with my guns.
Anyway back to the Op and his post, depending on how long he's been gone from the game noting the changes to the high sec miners lifestyle was definitely valid. I was not speculating but speaking from personal experience. |
Forum Toon
State War Academy Caldari State
35
|
Posted - 2015.11.21 21:03:57 -
[15] - Quote
if you got limited time then stick with ore mining. also stick with the common ones like veld and scordite which can be found all over and in large quantities.
they are decent income and will allow you to travel around.
also iirc you don't need to refine anymore with changes to reining people actually pay more for the ore itself so you can mine stack large amount and then sell it to someone. |
Anabolo
Omni Source Corp
3
|
Posted - 2015.11.22 07:02:59 -
[16] - Quote
Ty again stepped into a procurer yesterday and mine scordite. Give me a nice safe basic income to fund my weekend fun. |
Broject
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2015.11.22 22:26:41 -
[17] - Quote
Ganking miners always has been "a thing", but the times back then aren't comparable to nowadays.
"Suicide ganking" reached a skewed "main stream" in 2012/2013 ... ... but certain entities never had the mental reach to "unlock" the full potential.
Hulkaggeddon was an event foreshadowing inevitable development.
The rest is history. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Black Hydra Consortium.
5532
|
Posted - 2015.11.22 22:51:25 -
[18] - Quote
Ganking miners changed a few years back.
Previously it was an accessible activity anyone could do solo, and few people did in an organized fashion. Occasionally major Hulk producers and/or Technetium producers (Hulks were 35% Tech back then) would sponsor gank festivals as money spinners.
Then along came the sharp nerfs to ganking, and those made a degree of professionalization of ganking necessary to pull it off. Hence the formation of CODE.
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5538
|
Posted - 2015.11.23 03:14:32 -
[19] - Quote
A collection of my posts on mining: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6081148#post6081148
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Kira Kaliandra
Prosperitas INC
5
|
Posted - 2015.11.23 08:59:48 -
[20] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote: Ganking of miners was no where near as big of a thing when I first started playing as it is now. As a matter of fact shoot at miners in general is a way bigger thing that it used to be. When I first started playing this game I belonged to a mining corp that would clear entire solar systems of ore withing single digit jumps of jita. Now-a-days if you have more than two or three mining barges in the same system that are in the same corp you are almost guaranteed a war dec within the following 24 hours.
Yes miner ganking and harassment happened back then. I'm not saying it did not. I'm just saying the rate at which it happens has increased several exponential factors since I started playing in early 2009. So for someone like the OP that left the game for a while I felt it was worth pointing out to him.
I agree 100% and then some. I started playing this game in 2008 and there was always Mining ships in Asteroid Belts. Was an awesome sight to see a fleet of Mining ships at work. Rarely ever heard of a Suicide Gank happening. Wasn't till after the Hulkageddon contests (3 yrs in a row) that suicide ganking mining ships in high sec started to become a full time career choice, mainly due to how easy and cheap it was to do.
Course that career choice took a while to gain attention and after it did, it spread like wildfire and became one of the main game-play activities currently being promoted. Hell, I even started selling Bookmarks of Cosmic Signature Grav / Ore sites to Hulk/Orca fleets when it first gained notoriety but thanks to all the changes made to the game which I listed above basically cut that career short.
So yeah, this whole ganking career thing is definitely a more recent development and should be brought to the attention of returning mining characters.
DMC[/quote]
^ This.
I've played EVE since early 2007 (on another character back then) and mining was something i did A LOT.
Nowdays ganking miners is a much bigger problem than before, with CODE. running around shooting ppl (and other entities that do this).
Back then I never had a tank fitted mining ship, never had any need for it. Now, I would not leave a station without the best tank i could fit onto my mining ships.
This is just a thing for returning and new miners to keep in mind ... |
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2037
|
Posted - 2015.11.23 12:01:42 -
[21] - Quote
Kira Kaliandra wrote:Nowdays ganking miners is a much bigger problem than before, with CODE. running around shooting ppl (and other entities that do this).
Back then I never had a tank fitted mining ship, never had any need for it. Now, I would not leave a station without the best tank i could fit onto my mining ships.
This is just a thing for returning and new miners to keep in mind ... Now, I'm not saying tanking your ships and paying attention is a bad idea - it is very good advice to new and returning players, but there is no evidence that ganking is a bigger "problem" than before. As was alluded to above by Loyd, Dr. EyjoG said in an economic report: "For reasons that are left as an exercise to the reader, Exhumers are now blowing up at historically low rates." (Dec 2012 CSM minutes, pg 104) referring to the insurance nerfs, EHP/CONCORD response time buffs for miners, and other changes that hit gankers hard earlier that year. Since then, Exhumers are still exploding at similar rates to 2012 suggesting there has been no increase, certainly no "exponential" increase, off those historic lows.
CCP has buffed both the Procurer and the Skiff to the point they are bump-proof, and completely uneconomical to gank meaning every player now has easy access to a ship that will make them immune to almost all efforts to engage in PvP with them and allow them to pay no attention to safety. So OP, for AFK mining, your choice of the Procurer was indeed the correct one.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
651
|
Posted - 2015.11.23 15:24:16 -
[22] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Now, I'm not saying tanking your ships and paying attention is a bad idea - it is very good advice to new and returning players, but there is no evidence that ganking is a bigger "problem" than before. As was alluded to above by Loyd, Dr. EyjoG said in an economic report: "For reasons that are left as an exercise to the reader, Exhumers are now blowing up at historically low rates." (Dec 2012 CSM minutes, pg 104) referring to the insurance nerfs, EHP/CONCORD response time buffs for miners, and other changes that hit gankers hard earlier that year. Since then, Exhumers are still exploding at similar rates to 2012 suggesting there has been no increase, certainly no "exponential" increase, off those historic lows. Then they and you are not going far enough back because comparing 2012 numbers to 2015 numbers you are still comparing post hulkageddon situations. In 2009 through 2012 on various characters I used to run mining fleets for a larger corp at the beginning it was not uncommon to have 25 - 30 hulks plus Orca and transport support and we would strip all of the belts in multiple systems in a single session and never saw anything but the occasional can flipper. As we progressed through the hulkageddon era things got worse and there was a definitive increase in the number of gankers in the belts to the point where ship replacement made the larger fleets impractical to continue to use.
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2037
|
Posted - 2015.11.23 16:40:19 -
[23] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Now, I'm not saying tanking your ships and paying attention is a bad idea - it is very good advice to new and returning players, but there is no evidence that ganking is a bigger "problem" than before. As was alluded to above by Loyd, Dr. EyjoG said in an economic report: "For reasons that are left as an exercise to the reader, Exhumers are now blowing up at historically low rates." (Dec 2012 CSM minutes, pg 104) referring to the insurance nerfs, EHP/CONCORD response time buffs for miners, and other changes that hit gankers hard earlier that year. Since then, Exhumers are still exploding at similar rates to 2012 suggesting there has been no increase, certainly no "exponential" increase, off those historic lows. Then they and you are not going far enough back because comparing 2012 numbers to 2015 numbers you are still comparing post hulkageddon situations. In 2009 through 2012 on various characters I used to run mining fleets for a larger corp at the beginning it was not uncommon to have 25 - 30 hulks plus Orca and transport support and we would strip all of the belts in multiple systems in a single session and never saw anything but the occasional can flipper. As we progressed through the hulkageddon era things got worse and there was a definitive increase in the number of gankers in the belts to the point where ship replacement made the larger fleets impractical to continue to use. I'm not saying that things have not changed - the post-Hulkageddon pressure from gankers may have forced miners into tankier hulls for example, but the absolute number of exhumer ganks is still near an all-time low. We are not in the middle of some "super-gank" era where suicide ganking is occuring at unprecedented rates. In fact, all evidence points to ganking, especially of mining ships, being at some of the lowest rates in the history of the game which is consistent with the fact that highsec as never been mechanically safer, nor has ganking ever been more costly.
I guess you can claim Dr.EyjoG was wrong or mistaken, but he clearly said "historic lows" which does imply the lowest number of Exhumer ganks in the whole history of Eve was at the end of 2012. Maybe some day CCP Quant can give us some updated statistics on the historic rates of industrial ship loss in highsec.
But this is all off-topic and this is the New Citizen's forum. The OP correctly identified the Procurer as the mining ship most suited for his needs and appears to be happy with his choice.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
653
|
Posted - 2015.11.25 14:08:17 -
[24] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:I'm not saying that things have not changed - the post-Hulkageddon pressure from gankers may have forced miners into tankier hulls for example, but the absolute number of exhumer ganks is still near an all-time low. We are not in the middle of some "super-gank" era where suicide ganking is occuring at unprecedented rates. In fact, all evidence points to ganking, especially of mining ships, being at some of the lowest rates in the history of the game which is consistent with the fact that highsec has never been mechanically safer, nor has ganking ever been more costly. The problem that I see with the "evidence" or "information" if you rather that has been presented is it is all in actual number of ships ganked and not a percentage of that type of ship in use. These are not real numbers here or even a guess, they are simply placed as a example of what I am saying. If 1,000 exhumer class ships are in use and 100 are ganked that is 10%. If 10,000 are in use and 100 are ganked that is only 1% and these would tell a radically different story on the state of ganking. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1675
|
Posted - 2015.11.25 22:35:17 -
[25] - Quote
Overall statistics are not overly relevant to new solo player anyway.
Scenario 1) Newish Player in a tanked Procurer who runs Level I security missions in 0.9 or higher space and then mines them for the rocks that spawn in the mission - very unlikely to get ganked. Who is going to bother scanning down a single Procurer behind a deadspace mission gate in a high security system and go kill it?
Scenario 2) Newish Player in a generic Retriever in a generic asteroid belt visible on overview in a 0.5 CODE infested system like the pipe between Dodi and Hek - highly likely to get ganked. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
960
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 03:19:09 -
[26] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote: the absolute number of exhumer ganks is still near an all-time low. We are not in the middle of some "super-gank" era where suicide ganking is occuring at unprecedented rates. In fact, all evidence points to ganking, especially of mining ships, being at some of the lowest rates in the history of the game which is consistent with the fact that highsec has never been mechanically safer, nor has ganking ever been more costly.
I guess you can claim Dr.EyjoG was wrong or mistaken, but he clearly said "historic lows" which does imply the lowest number of Exhumer ganks in the whole history of Eve was at the end of 2012. Maybe some day CCP Quant can give us some updated statistics on the historic rates of industrial ship loss in highsec.
But this is all off-topic and this is the New Citizen's forum. The OP correctly identified the Procurer as the mining ship most suited for his needs and appears to be happy with his choice. I don't know that statistics that you are quoting within the context that you are referring. However what I hear you saying is "Exhumer ganks". What we were talking about is the hostile environment for miners. You have heard many reports from players that used to be in massive fleets of hulks in high sec on large mining Ops. Today I don't even know anyone that will fly an exhumer. People fly barges and the fact that the newer faction frigates do so well at mining at such low skills I think has added a lot of cheaply replaceable competition.
I've said this before and I will say it again. If you had mined in 2009 or earlier you would not even be arguing. It is such a stark difference that it is not even a question. There used to be huge Exhumer fleets in high sec and now if you have more than 3 barges in one system in the same corp mining together that corp will be war deced within 24 hours. Be it war decing or ganking or what ever Hulkageddon created a hostile environment for miners that borders on hatred. The effect of which is that large mining corps and large exhumer fleets in high sec are almost a thing of the past.
So again I don't know the context of the statistics that you are quoting but so far the only people that I have heard in this post try and tell me that it's not worse now are people that have only been playing since about 2012 or after. All the people that have played 2009 or earlier are in agreement.
So we can side with personal experience or cherry picked stats taken out of context.
To be more precise what I am taking issue with is you quoting a stat about "exhumers" and then saying "mining ships" in the next sentence. Exhumers are very expensive tech 2 mining barges. Mining barges are much cheaper tech 1 versions. Also O.R.E. frigates are not even exhumers nor barges.
Also worth noting is that with the rebalancing I don't think that exhumers are as big of, or at least not clearly as big of an upgrade as they were before hand.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
960
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 03:49:27 -
[27] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Then along came the sharp nerfs to ganking, and those made a degree of professionalization of ganking necessary to pull it off. Hence the formation of CODE.
If my memory is correct on this the "nerfs" to ganking were more of a leveling out. Previous to that CCP had introduced what were then called "tier 3" battlecruisers along with some "rebalancing" done to destroyers which had the result of making ganking much much cheaper and more affordable. So, at least from the dev blogs of the day, what I understood to be the intent was to set ganking back to around where it used to be as far out of pocket cost of replacement compared to damage output before concord finished it's job.
So yes CCP did nerf ganking by removing insurance payouts for concord deaths but only after introducing ships like the Tornado which could do Battleship Alpha damage at a cost that was double digit millions instead of triple digit millions.
I've never used insurance before so I don't know how it works but my guess is that a Tornado hull is probably close to or less than what insurance would have cost for a Battleship which would make the so called nerfs really just a wash.
At the very least that is how I recall the dev blogs explaining it.
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
52675
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Posted - 2015.11.26 16:36:30 -
[28] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:I've said this before and I will say it again. If you had mined in 2009 or earlier you would not even be arguing. It is such a stark difference that it is not even a question. There used to be huge Exhumer fleets in high sec and now if you have more than 3 barges in one system in the same corp mining together that corp will be war deced within 24 hours. Definitely 100% correct.
Quote:Be it war decing or ganking or what ever Hulkageddon created a hostile environment for miners that borders on hatred. The effect of which is that large mining corps and large exhumer fleets in high sec are almost a thing of the past. Hulkageddon was a testing program presented as a contest. It's intention was to log and record Concord response times and set up the cheapest ship fit required to achieve the gank in the least amount of time.
Afterwards the results were presented and thus CODE became active. Their mantra is definitely based on discrimination, harassment and hatred towards those who engage in a specific game play activity under the guise of roleplaying and creating player driven content.
Quote:So again I don't know the context of the statistics that you are quoting but so far the only people that I have heard in this post try and tell me that it's not worse now are people that have only been playing since about 2012 or after. All the people that have played 2009 or earlier are in agreement. Agree 100%.
Quote:Also worth noting is that with the rebalancing I don't think that exhumers are as big of, or at least not clearly as big of an upgrade as they were before hand. The Mining ship re-balance was nothing more than a smokescreen to quell the angry outcry and resentment from the Mining community. With that re-balance also came the change to Ice Fields and Cosmic Signature Ore sites which were turned into Cosmic Anomalies. That basically removed any chance of advance warning with D-scan for probes and made it even easier for ganking.
I'm not a miner, I'm an explorer who actually had a very lucrative side business of selling Cosmic Signature Ore (Grav) sites to Hulk / Orca Fleets but thanks to those changes that career died.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1678
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Posted - 2015.11.26 22:30:06 -
[29] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Afterwards the results were presented and thus CODE became active. Their mantra is definitely based on discrimination, harassment and hatred towards those who engage in a specific game play activity under the guise of roleplaying and creating player driven content.
The roleplay is necessary to provide a loophole to comply with the EULA. In reality CODE are favored children of CCP doing there bit to reinforce the image of EVE as a harsh and unforgiving place so do not need to do much roleplay to avoid the ban hammer. They have the Devs on side.
CODE is actually quite successful at their unoffical and unspoken goal of getting "unsuitable" players who mine to quit the game. I know of quite a few who have quit. One of my ALTs is the sole remaining player in a previously largish corp who generally were casual players with young kids or other commitments who needed to be AFK at a moments notice and henced mined. ( Ironically the guys in that particular corp had formed it with the longterm plan to move to blusec renter space once they got financial. )
CODE has its place - even if they are annoyingly smug and superior for a group that basically does PvE (ganking an NPC controlled AFK autopiloted freighter is not really PvP) |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2041
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Posted - 2015.11.27 10:02:10 -
[30] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Afterwards the results were presented and thus CODE became active. Their mantra is definitely based on discrimination, harassment and hatred towards those who engage in a specific game play activity under the guise of roleplaying and creating player driven content.
The roleplay is necessary to provide a loophole to comply with the EULA. In reality CODE are favored children of CCP doing there bit to reinforce the image of EVE as a harsh and unforgiving place so do not need to do much roleplay to avoid the ban hammer. They have the Devs on side. CODE is actually quite successful at their unoffical and unspoken goal of getting "unsuitable" players who mine to quit the game. I know of quite a few who have quit. One of my ALTs is the sole remaining player in a previously largish corp who generally were casual players with young kids or other commitments who needed to be AFK at a moments notice and henced mined. ( Ironically the guys in that particular corp had formed it with the longterm plan to move to blusec renter space once they got financial. ) CODE has its place - even if they are annoyingly smug and superior for a group that basically does PvE (ganking an NPC controlled AFK autopiloted freighter is not really PvP) What does any of this speculation and discussion have to do with the OP's question on which type of mining is most advantageous for his situation? This is the New Citizen's Q&A forum, not the CCP Conspiracy Theory forum.
But for the benefit of any new players reading this forum, I will take a minute to point out that there is no "loophole" in the EULA that CODE. or anyone else is taking advantage of to shoot miners. Eve Online has been designed from the bottom up to facilitate conflict between players everywhere. CCP describes this game in the New Pilot FAQ (which as a new player you should read) as "the essential core concept of EVE Online is that it is full time PvP in a sandbox environment". You are intended to always be at risk to other players, and always have been since the beginning of the game.
Whether you choose to gank a miner as part of an extensive protection racket like CODE., or to drive competitors away from "your" system, or simply just for direct profit from the loot drops, it is all intended behaviour. Eve is a sandbox, so such emergent gameplay like this is desired and encouraged by CCP as it is the content of this game, unlike more traditional MMOs where content is scripted and written by the developers. That shooting miners in highsec is somehow a EULA violation or harassment is a meme popular among carebears that has no basis in reality. It probably grew out of the cognitive dissonance common among Eve players where they say they are all for ganking industrials but act all aghast and look down on players when someone actually does it (and often start demanding "consequences" for players engaging in intended game play), and perhaps players who have conflated the extra steps James 315 took to document his original miner bumping campaign, with ganking. The ganking of miners has never been a EULA violation, except in the minds of players who are upset over the loss of their barge.
So of course the game developers are "on side" with the gankers as it is the very game play they intended for Eve when they designed this game. CCP spent much time coding and balancing Crimewatch, CONCORD and the security status systems to allow criminals to operate while providing significant safety to the residents of highsec to allow emergent gameplay to develop. But highsec is not "safesec" and you are not suppose to be safe - nowhere in the EULA does it say that you are entitled to be left alone. It is not a "loophole" to shoot a miner nor is it "harassment" and it never has been in this history of this game.
New players would do best to ignore the plaintive (mis?)remembering of the good ol' days certain posters are engaging in here and be more like the OP and deal with the reality of this competitive PvP sandbox game. There are plenty of ways to make yourself almost perfectly safe, or at least a non-lucrative target, in highsec (fly a Procurer is a good start). Better to learn those and protect yourself from other players, then to spend your time complaining on the forums how it is "harassment" is that other players can shoot you in this game about shooting spaceships or pining for a past that is long gone.
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