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Marquis Dean
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.09 15:47:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Marquis Dean on 09/01/2007 15:43:56 The Scorpion is tiny. The Apocalypse is enormous. So can someone explain this:
Scorpion sig radius: 480m Apocalypse sig radius: 400m
Kthx. ------ ------
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Forsch
Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.09 15:48:00 -
[2]
All the electronics make it easier to lock target on.
Forsch Defender of the empire
Can't wait for the oomph! |
Marquis Dean
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.09 18:28:00 -
[3]
------ ------
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Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.01.09 18:31:00 -
[4]
The Scorpion is designed to EMIT signals. Signals that are emitted can be more easily detected. Makes perfect sense. - EVE is sick. |
Marquis Dean
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.09 18:38:00 -
[5]
The Scorpion is designed to emit signals, which means it inherently takes 20% more damage from a Fury Torpedo than the Apocalypse, which is obviously twice it's size.
Yeah makes perfect sense. ------ ------
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Zevrik
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Posted - 2007.01.09 18:44:00 -
[6]
The Raven is also 3x smaller than most battleships and has the same large sig radius, I've read somewhere that CCP said it was because of the uber Caldari shield systems.
It doesnt really matter any battleship that is target painted is going to take a wallop from Rages anyways.
Eve on Linux |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.09 18:46:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Marquis Dean The Scorpion is designed to emit signals, which means it inherently takes 20% more damage from a Fury Torpedo than the Apocalypse, which is obviously twice it's size.
Yeah makes perfect sense.
And how does the torp know where to hit? By locking on the ships signal. The stronger the signal the more accurate the lock. The torp can hit the scorp dead center while it cannot hit the apoc that accurately, which as result does not suffer the whole force of the explosion when the warhead detonates.
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Marquis Dean
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.09 18:51:00 -
[8]
I think you're all thinking in terms of physics, which is silly because this is a game. I mean game mechanics. Caldari ships are already very heavy next to other race's, I don't think it's fair to give them a giant sig radius too. ------ ------
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jbob2000
Gallente KIA Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.09 19:01:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Marquis Dean I think you're all thinking in terms of physics, which is silly because this is a game. I mean game mechanics. Caldari ships are already very heavy next to other race's, I don't think it's fair to give them a giant sig radius too.
Ohh pssh, caldari have the easiest weapons and they barely need to move anyways so it doesnt matter.
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Marquis Dean
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.09 19:17:00 -
[10]
Bah. ------ ------
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG
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Posted - 2007.01.09 19:24:00 -
[11]
RP explanation: The caldari don't care about the geometry of their ships or the amount of radiation that they emit and as such they are easier to hit and hits are more devastating as the goemetry of the ship does not direct the force of impact away.
___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
DunNa
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Posted - 2007.01.09 19:31:00 -
[12]
The scorp just needs some lovin after that ecm nerf :(
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Dixon
Caldari Hells Donkeys
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Posted - 2007.01.09 19:54:00 -
[13]
Size has little to do with signature radius. The scorps electronics and shields are responsible for it's huge sig.
Just like you scan for signatures you lock on to them in combat, you're not targeting the ships hull but it's signature... it's not complicated.
btw: for those who thought size = sig: did you ever think how target painters work? Or did you perhaps think a blasterthron would reach the size of a small moon while using it's mwd? - - - - - -
Originally by: Ath Amon as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
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Grimpak
Gallente Twisted Attitude Apocalyptica.
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Posted - 2007.01.09 20:00:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Marquis Dean I think you're all thinking in terms of physics, which is silly because this is a game. I mean game mechanics. Caldari ships are already very heavy next to other race's, I don't think it's fair to give them a giant sig radius too.
you want an RP explanation why caldari ships are heavy? simple: they use hi-quality, super-dense copper heatsinks -------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.01.09 20:56:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Marquis Dean I think you're all thinking in terms of physics, which is silly because this is a game.
Uhh...
Originally by: OP The Scorpion is tiny. The Apocalypse is enormous. So can someone explain this
Anyway, I think both the Scorpion and Raven models should be a lot bigger. Hopefully that's being fixed in the graphics revision. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Mush Room
Svea Rike Tre Kroner
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Posted - 2007.01.09 21:13:00 -
[16]
Apoc volume 1,150,000 Raven volume 1,080,000 Chimera 11,925,000
In-game, as we all know, the Apoc appears largest, and by far so, it looks two or three times bigger than the two caldari ships.
Why is this? my guess is that CCP thought the Caldari ship textures looked like crap when scaled up to their realistic sizes, so they scaled them down instead of making new, better quality textures.
The Chimeras over-sized shield booster bubble somewhat supports this theory that it was a lot bigger sometime during development.
Just a guess though.
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Fon Revedhort
Aeria Gloris Inc United Legion
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Posted - 2007.01.09 21:55:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 09/01/2007 21:52:04 Heck, I'm really sick to see these endless remarks on sigs while ppl are actually trying to compare SIZE. If you don't know what sig means just go and learn a new word, it's never late to learn.
Signature of F-117 or B-2 Nortrop is just measerable in comparence with the their actual size. Sure thing, sig generally depends on size, but it also and stronger depends on: emissions (dunno wheather this is an appropriate term here, English isn't my native language), vessel's geometry, its surface, the angles of the surfaces and so on. Even a rotating blades in the thruster do affect the signature (that's why in the B-2 they are actually hidden by an S-type air intake)
To put it briefly, saying sig = size is about the same stupidity as saying the Ferrari F50 = lawn-mower.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2007.01.09 22:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: jbob2000
Originally by: Marquis Dean I think you're all thinking in terms of physics, which is silly because this is a game. I mean game mechanics. Caldari ships are already very heavy next to other race's, I don't think it's fair to give them a giant sig radius too.
Ohh pssh, caldari have the easiest weapons and they barely need to move anyways so it doesnt matter.
Hybrid weapons are the easisit to use? damn where was I all this time...
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Marquis Dean
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.09 23:17:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Audri Fisher
Originally by: jbob2000
Originally by: Marquis Dean I think you're all thinking in terms of physics, which is silly because this is a game. I mean game mechanics. Caldari ships are already very heavy next to other race's, I don't think it's fair to give them a giant sig radius too.
Ohh pssh, caldari have the easiest weapons and they barely need to move anyways so it doesnt matter.
Hybrid weapons are the easisit to use? damn where was I all this time...
Timmeh! ------ ------
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Marquis Dean
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.09 23:23:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Fon Revedhort Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 09/01/2007 21:52:04 Heck, I'm really sick to see these endless remarks on sigs while ppl are actually trying to compare SIZE. If you don't know what sig means just go and learn a new word, it's never late to learn.
Signature of F-117 or B-2 Nortrop is just measerable in comparence with the their actual size. Sure thing, sig generally depends on size, but it also and stronger depends on: emissions (dunno wheather this is an appropriate term here, English isn't my native language), vessel's geometry, its surface, the angles of the surfaces and so on. Even a rotating blades in the thruster do affect the signature (that's why in the B-2 they are actually hidden by an S-type air intake)
To put it briefly, saying sig = size is about the same stupidity as saying the Ferrari F50 = lawn-mower.
Don't ever compare Eve to real life.
I'm sure a B2 or F-117 or Thunderbird 3 is very small on radar, that's great. If it's parked on a runway and gets a 500lb bomb dropped on it, it's not going matter how small it's sig radius on radar is, it's going to take the same physical damage and something the same size and weight that has a huge radar cross section.
I am not talking about locking time. I am talking about the effectiveness of torpedos and citadels. ------ ------
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Dixon
Caldari Hells Donkeys
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Posted - 2007.01.09 23:28:00 -
[21]
Quote: I am talking about the effectiveness of torpedos and citadels.
missiles lock on to signatures and if those signatures are low then the missiles will not hit accurately... is this really complicated? - - - - - -
Originally by: Ath Amon as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
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Marquis Dean
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.09 23:34:00 -
[22]
I always thought that if the ship had a small sig radius, that meant it was a physically small ship. E.g: Enyo, gets hit by a bane torpedo. The Enyo is 35m (or whatever) big, and the explosion from the torp is 400m big, so the Enyo takes 35/400 of the damage because it occupys 35/400 of the area being hit by the explosion.
I'm pretty sure i'm right, else missiles would reasonably be able to get lucky shots where they explode right on top of a smaller ships, for full damage. As it is, the maths above always applies, so yeah, I think i'm right. ------ ------
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Zekk Pacus
Caldari StateCorp
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Posted - 2007.01.10 00:17:00 -
[23]
Signature radius /= physical radius. The actual size of a ship has ****all to do with how strong its emitted signature is. Fit three LSEIIs to a BC and see how big the signature is - has the actual size of the ship changed? No. Signature simply means how easily sensors can track the ship. The more electronics and shield emitters involved, the easier it is to lock and track.
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Forsch
Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.10 00:32:00 -
[24]
Imo missiles don't explode on impact but on a certain proximity. If the target's sig is small, it's hard for the missile to firgure out the best proximity, and so it does less damage (because it explodes too far away).
Forsch Defender of the empire
Can't wait for the oomph! |
Seramyr l'Ethia
Liminality
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Posted - 2007.01.10 00:34:00 -
[25]
I find it somewhat amusing that this conversation is just shades of the "turret tracking doesn't function like in real life CCP, you $&^%@!!" argument we get every week or so. After being excluded from such intellectual pursuits due to missile usage, Caldari now have something else to hold aloft as their banner of injustice.
Yay karma. ^^
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king jks
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Posted - 2007.01.10 00:48:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Marquis Dean I'm sure a B2 or F-117 or Thunderbird 3 is very small on radar, that's great. If it's parked on a runway and gets a 500lb bomb dropped on it, it's not going matter how small it's sig radius on radar is, it's going to take the same physical damage and something the same size and weight that has a huge radar cross section.
The electronic signature of the stealth ships is very, very small, so the bomb would have a hard time knowing where it is, resulting in decreased accuracy, so if the bomb detonates 1/4 mile away, its not going to do much. Same thing as if you were trying to hit a quarter with a rifle from a mile away... harder than trying to hit a building yes? The thing is, signature in eve means electronic size, which in most cases is related directly to the physical size, since bigger means more electronics.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.01.10 01:20:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Marquis Dean I always thought that if the ship had a small sig radius, that meant it was a physically small ship. E.g: Enyo, gets hit by a bane torpedo. The Enyo is 35m (or whatever) big, and the explosion from the torp is 400m big, so the Enyo takes 35/400 of the damage because it occupys 35/400 of the area being hit by the explosion.
I'm pretty sure i'm right, else missiles would reasonably be able to get lucky shots where they explode right on top of a smaller ships, for full damage. As it is, the maths above always applies, so yeah, I think i'm right.
No. See Interceptor sig bonus. See Halo implant. See Inertial Stabilizer penalty. Do you really imagine these are changing the physical size of the ships?
Missiles don't get "lucky shots" because as you've already pointed out, this is EVE, not real life. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
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