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Why do ccp give in to mission runners lobby?

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Author	Topic
Damien Smith Turbulent Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.10 18:08:00 - [61] Originally by: Dixon Originally by: Damien Smith Mission runners are rarely within 5au probe range of the system plane, which means using fathom and bigger, with strength penalties the further up you go. I have lots of pre made bookmarks of various heights above and below plane in the most common mission running systems, where I lay a field of overlapping probes (spook and smaller) and spam, spam, spam that scan button away. Even with covops and astrometrics 5, and signal acquisition/astrometric pinpointing/astrometric triangulation 4 it can take a good few scans to get things like command ships and hacs. Ah, it seems you are missing a neat lil' trick... If you mean scanning for drones, I already do (scan for ships and drones on the same scan). If not, I'm all ears. Send me an eve-mail so we can keep it to ourselves. ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg
Skeenee Al'Ramed	Posted - 2007.01.10 20:30:00 - [62] Agree with OP. It's pure favoritism! They are the only person in low sec not running into ANY risks.. it's not even low sec for them! They get ALL The rewards with no extra risks (compared to high sec) IMHO, only high sec missions should not be probable, to avoid griefing; but missions in low sec, should have a fair probability of succesful probing. To the carebears saying that it will decrease low sec population even more, I answer "Whoooo gives a shi,t we can't touch you anyway. Good riddance if you leave low sec"
Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2007.01.10 21:36:00 - [63] Originally by: Exlegion Edited by: Exlegion on 10/01/2007 17:27:51 Edited by: Exlegion on 10/01/2007 17:26:25 Originally by: FooB2 did they adapt? or did they whine until CCP adapted for them........ hmm. Gankbears slash their own throats. They can't see past easy kills. If CCP would have left things the way they were immediately post-Kali, then gankers would have complained about a lack of targets in low sec. They don't want more PVP. They want easy kills so they can feel all tough inside. The funny thing is that the "gankbears" were asking CCP to change the probe system after Kali made it too easy. We recognized it was unfair and asked for it to change alongside all the "end-of-the-world" carebears. That's the difference. We recognize when something is ridiculously in our favor. Carebears can't see past their own wallets. --- Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!!
Karlemgne The Black Fleet	Posted - 2007.01.10 21:45:00 - [64] Originally by: Mondo Banana Perhaps you should just get a barrel and fill it with fish. That sounds about right for your skill level. If you want an "I WIN" button there's always more room over at WoW.... I don't want an "I win" button. I'd like mission runners, who chose to come to low sec, to actually risk something, like the rest of us do. -Karlemgne
Exlegion Legion's Knight	Posted - 2007.01.10 21:46:00 - [65] Originally by: Bardi MecAuldnis Originally by: Exlegion Edited by: Exlegion on 10/01/2007 17:27:51 Edited by: Exlegion on 10/01/2007 17:26:25 Originally by: FooB2 did they adapt? or did they whine until CCP adapted for them........ hmm. Gankbears slash their own throats. They can't see past easy kills. If CCP would have left things the way they were immediately post-Kali, then gankers would have complained about a lack of targets in low sec. They don't want more PVP. They want easy kills so they can feel all tough inside. The funny thing is that the "gankbears" were asking CCP to change the probe system after Kali made it too easy. We recognized it was unfair and asked for it to change alongside all the "end-of-the-world" carebears. That's the difference. We recognize when something is ridiculously in our favor. Carebears can't see past their own wallets. You may be one of the few exceptions that thinks further than just the easy low-sec gank-a-thon fest. Here's the OP: Quote: Case in point: Probing a mission. Why should probing a mission be any less difficult then probing a safespot? Why should them doing a mission give them some magical near invulnurability? If they fail to use the scanner to see if someones scanning them, that is THEIR problem. When im at a safespot 95% of the time im aligned and mash the scan button like a psychopath and, because of this, i rarely die. I think mission runners should have to do the same thing, it is low sec after all, is it not? For the record i have only probed down two mission runners in my life time, but id like the option to do it now because its incredibly annoying having people in low sec in ravens pretty well un touchable. (See highlighted) The OP seems to think that it is the same to safespot as it is to run missions. The OP believes that scanning a missioner should be as easy as probing a safe spot. Can you see why this can lead to inbalances in the game? Exlegion
OldPueblo Gallente The Fantastically Pantless Sporkmen	Posted - 2007.01.10 22:01:00 - [66] Edited by: OldPueblo on 10/01/2007 21:58:47 Boohoo, go run missions too then. And it's actually quite easy to catch people on the other side of a gate and kill them while in PVE setup still.
Soporo	Posted - 2007.01.10 22:05:00 - [67] Quote: The funny thing is that the "gankbears" were asking CCP to change the probe system after Kali made it too easy. We recognized it was unfair and asked for it to change alongside all the "end-of-the-world" carebears. I dont know about you personally, but I suspect a lot of those reasons for most was more along the lines of "holy shi*, where tf did everyone go?!" "damnit, lowsec is a damn ghost town!, nerf Empire missions!!!!" "well, hell no one comes here anymore, maybe the scan is just a TAD too easy, a TAD mind you!"
Karlemgne The Black Fleet	Posted - 2007.01.11 03:04:00 - [68] Originally by: OldPueblo Edited by: OldPueblo on 10/01/2007 21:58:47 Boohoo, go run missions too then. And it's actually quite easy to catch people on the other side of a gate and kill them while in PVE setup still. I don't want to run missions. Its boring as f*** if you ask me. However, spoken like a true mission runner, "I want my easy cash, so don't complain." -Karl
Gix Firebrand Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.01.11 05:34:00 - [69] Man.. it makes me sad to see so many of my fellow pirates whine like little girls :( You got several options. One, if it bothers you that much vote with your wallet and quit. Two, get better at scanning and camping the warp in point. Three, stop crying. Four, rally for increased low sec profit to make it worth the risk. Personally I think low sec needs to be more profitable to justify the hungry pirates that live in them, myself included. Move all but veld, plaig and pyro into low sec. Remove the omber in the lvl 3 mission. Make some other tweaks, and we'll be all good. But until then you got those options above. Or I guess you could still whine.
Dane Hur Caldari Bloody Needles	Posted - 2007.01.11 06:04:00 - [70] Its hard to find missionrunners, otherwise there would be no missionrunners in lowsec, right after the patch, I stopped running missions in low sec, any pirat with half a brain could scan out 3-4 missions in the system in less then 5 minutes. When they added the reconprobe launcher, I could probe out a mission so fast I would allmost be at the mission before the missionrunner. It was truely an I win button, I knew what damage they would tanking and could fit accordingly.

OldPueblo Gallente The Fantastically Pantless Sporkmen	Posted - 2007.01.11 06:24:00 - [71] Edited by: OldPueblo on 11/01/2007 06:21:51 Originally by: Karlemgne Originally by: OldPueblo Edited by: OldPueblo on 10/01/2007 21:58:47 Boohoo, go run missions too then. And it's actually quite easy to catch people on the other side of a gate and kill them while in PVE setup still. I don't want to run missions. Its boring as f*** if you ask me. However, spoken like a true mission runner, "I want my easy cash, so don't complain." -Karl You don't know anything about me Captain Assumption. And once again, its still quite easy to catch PVE-fitted ships coming through a gate. Unless you're bad at it. Not running missions is your choice, but thankfully you don't get to choose how everyone gets to play. Sounds like its time to work for your kills. PS - Locking ships that aren't looking for a fight and aren't setup to PVP is harder then missions? Talk about easy cash.
Neon Genesis Gallente Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.01.11 07:09:00 - [72] Edited by: Neon Genesis on 11/01/2007 07:06:47 Originally by: Mondo Banana Perhaps you should just get a barrel and fill it with fish. That sounds about right for your skill level. If you want an "I WIN" button there's always more room over at WoW.... Please stop using the phrase every post. Also, you are looking at this post from one side and not even considering the other. You say Benglada wants to shoot fish in a barrel, well why do mission runners get near complete invulnerability while running missions in low sec. It's completely setup so mission runners have this instant safety while pirates have to work very hard to break it. Heaven forbid mission runners should have to setup for various situations.
Desiderious Gallente Catalyst Reaction Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.11 07:12:00 - [73] Originally by: OldPueblo Edited by: OldPueblo on 11/01/2007 06:21:51 Originally by: Karlemgne Originally by: OldPueblo Edited by: OldPueblo on 10/01/2007 21:58:47 Boohoo, go run missions too then. And it's actually quite easy to catch people on the other side of a gate and kill them while in PVE setup still. I don't want to run missions. Its boring as f*** if you ask me. However, spoken like a true mission runner, "I want my easy cash, so don't complain." -Karl You don't know anything about me Captain Assumption. And once again, its still quite easy to catch PVE-fitted ships coming through a gate. Unless you're bad at it. Not running missions is your choice, but thankfully you don't get to choose how everyone gets to play. Sounds like its time to work for your kills. PS - Locking ships that aren't looking for a fight and aren't setup to PVP is harder then missions? Talk about easy cash. I think this is actually a good arguement. In any other situation you can be set up for whats coming. However in a mission your setup is dictated. If you want to try to get through 0.0, you can fit a very fast, stabbed out ship. In missions you cant do that. Also adding a WCS or nano would be pointless and wasteful in missions. Also a lot of mission setups arent even useful for PVP. IE-My Domi setup w/ 3 nos's and the other 3 for looting...Yah... Also keep in mind your resists are also fixed. ----------------------------- Oink ^OO^ Your sig is too large. Please resize it so that it fits within 400x120. -Conuion Meow (mods@ccpgames.com)
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.01.11 07:38:00 - [74] I believe this topic have been discussed way too many times. All possible arguments for every side have been posted repeatedly on many many threads. All new threads on this will without a doubt, end up in smack/insult/flame.
Lord WarATron Amarr Vanguard Frontiers	Posted - 2007.01.11 10:17:00 - [75] People mission run to get isk. Most mission runner I know use the isk for pvp. People are grinding even more just to get enough isk for pvp, so if you make it easy to scan them, then they just leave low sec altogether and head off to a 0.9 system to make isk. What should be happening is mission runners get more isk, so they spend less time running lvl4's and more time pvping. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Pytria Le'Danness Placid Reborn	Posted - 2007.01.11 10:49:00 - [76] Originally by: Neon Genesis ... why do mission runners get near complete invulnerability while running missions in low sec. They don't. I probed out deadspace missions even after the patch. It just takes a lot of time, skill and patience. It was way too easy before the patch, and everyone and his brother probed out missions in a second. It also did not only apply to low sec, there were some guys who did it in high-sec too and used tactics there was no counter to, like ransoming the mission goal. Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn"
Mira deVorsha	Posted - 2007.01.11 10:56:00 - [77] Originally by: Gonada what it all comes down to is it really realistic that one guy running a lvl 4 mission with 2 bill isk worth of mods gets his arse wiped by a lamer geek ganker/ ganker squad in his / their cheapo setup(s)? I don't think its that at all. the person is in lowsec they are taking risks in this regards. The issue I can see in missions is that you can take a standing hit for failing it. Also the situation was changed not because of piracy (which ccp tend to let happen) but because a lot of people where warping in and aggro'ing the whole mission and then leaving or stealing the end mission item. This being done in Empire space, not low sec.
Mira deVorsha	Posted - 2007.01.11 10:57:00 - [78] btw running an eccm in a low sec mission should make you impossible to find except by the most l33t of recon players.
ArtemisEntreri Turbulent Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.11 11:22:00 - [79] Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness Originally by: Neon Genesis ... why do mission runners get near complete invulnerability while running missions in low sec. They don't. I probed out deadspace missions even after the patch. It just takes a lot of time, skill and patience. It takes a lot of probes and luck, it doesn't take skill
Damien Smith Turbulent Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.11 11:47:00 - [80] Originally by: ArtemisEntreri It takes a lot of probes and luck, it doesn't take skill Agreed. It takes luck, which you can improve (slightly) by grinding your skillpoints up. I'll have astrometric triangulation 5 in a day or two so that'll just leave signal acquisition and astrometric pinpointing to get to 5. Yay for sp grinds... A corpmate of mine who had never probed in his entire life tried just after the kali patch. He dropped a single probe, scanned, got a result and warped in. Nothing's changed since then, except that it takes more scans before you get a result. The system has been made far too simple, and the challenge has been replaced with infuriatingly pointless 'bad dice rolls'. In the old system you learnt by trial and error, a failed result meant that you screwed up, and needed to change something to fix it. It rewarded patience and practice. The only thing the new system rewards is grinding skillpoints on a covert alt. ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg

Malcanis	Posted - 2007.01.11 11:48:00 - [81] Originally by: FooB2 did they adapt? or did they whine until CCP adapted for them........ hmm. IIRC, the numbers in lo-sec plummetted, and lo! There was much whining from Pirates about this to CCP asking them to "force" people out of hi-sec.
Zibun Ionic Minmatar Cloaca Maxima	Posted - 2007.01.11 11:54:00 - [82] Edited by: Zibun Ionic on 11/01/2007 11:59:30 Originally by: OldPueblo Edited by: OldPueblo on 10/01/2007 21:58:47 Boohoo, go run missions too then. And it's actually quite easy to catch people on the other side of a gate and kill them while in PVE setup still. Now there's a wise man. Why doesen't anyone seem to notice his post? Let the mission areas be hard to scan, while you can always catch them at next jump. -z Cloaca Maxima - The Sewage of Amarr Empire.
Malcanis	Posted - 2007.01.11 11:56:00 - [83] "It's completely setup so mission runners have this instant safety while pirates have to work very hard to break it. Heaven forbid mission runners should have to setup for various situations" Blame the unimaginative design of the missions for that. But Tux did post that they're looking to put "fewer but better" rats in belts and missions, didn't he? Maybe if PvE fittings converge somewhat with PvP fittings, the problems will be reduced somewhat?
Lord WarATron Amarr Vanguard Frontiers	Posted - 2007.01.11 12:05:00 - [84] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 11/01/2007 12:02:55 Lets put this in language that everyone understands. People mission run to get isk. If the benifits of low sec is less than the benifits of some 0.9 agent, I.E if they are going to get ganked, then they will pack their bags and leave lowsec alone. Now just about everyone I know only runs missions to get isk for PvP. If it takes them 5 days of missions to fund 2 days of pvp - thats what they do. If it takes them 1 day of missions to do 6 days of pvp - again thats what they do. They buy ships and pvp indefently until their stock runs out then repeat missions. What most of you guys need to relise that ONLY if missions have a big payoff, then you will get more targets and the targets you get will have better equipment = better loot drops/piracy. As it stands, there is no point for someone to lose a 2bil setup just to gain an extra 500-1000 lp per mission, in addition to the added hassels. Be honest here - if you could instantly warp to a mission runner - how long is he going to bring in a 2bil setup to lowsec? How long is he going to stay in lowsec? --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
ArtemisEntreri Turbulent Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.11 12:33:00 - [85] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 11/01/2007 12:06:10 Edited by: Lord WarATron on 11/01/2007 12:05:34 Edited by: Lord WarATron on 11/01/2007 12:02:55 Lets put this in language that everyone understands. People mission run to get isk. If the benifits of low sec is less than the benifits of some 0.9 agent, I.E if they are going to get ganked, then they will pack their bags and leave lowsec alone. Now just about everyone I know only runs missions to get isk for PvP. If it takes them 5 days of missions to fund 2 days of pvp - thats what they do. If it takes them 1 day of missions to do 6 days of pvp - again thats what they do. They buy ships and pvp indefently until their stock runs out then repeat missions. What most of you guys need to relise that ONLY if missions have a big payoff, then you will get more targets and the targets you get will have better equipment = better loot drops/piracy. As it stands, there is no point for someone to lose a 2bil setup just to gain an extra 500-1000 lp per mission, in addition to the added hassels. Add in warpouts if you see probes in scanners, and suddenly it seems that any benifit is lost. You are better off doing 0.0 missions insted, since you make more isk/lp in a disposable throwaway drake doing lvl3's, than doing lvl4's in lowsec in a 2bil setup. Be honest here - if you could instantly warp to a mission runner - how long is he going to bring in a 2bil setup to lowsec? How long is he going to stay in lowsec? That's why the old system worked, it took a lot of skill which most people didn't bother learning so not a lot of people got killed. And the point about mission running for pvp isk, doesn't apply to a lot of people who only do it for better setups.
Hellspawn01 Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.01.11 13:10:00 - [86] Originally by: ArtemisEntreri That's why the old system worked, it took a lot of skill which most people didn't bother learning so not a lot of people got killed. The lazy pirats didnt get such kills and then they complained. Did you see any pirate with hundred of mission runner kills per week whining? Originally by: ArtemisEntreriAnd the point about mission running for pvp isk, doesn't apply to a lot of people who only do it for better setups.[/quote Of course it doesnt apply for everyone. Those that do it for pvp use expensive setups too. For example some run missions for a navy ship which gets used in pvp or sold to buy stuff for pvp. Others keep the ships and run more missions and dont pvp but fly into low sec with very expensive ships, you just got to find out where. But finding them takes skills again and lazy pirats wont get kills. Ship lovers click here
Lord WarATron Amarr Vanguard Frontiers	Posted - 2007.01.11 14:04:00 - [87] Originally by: ArtemisEntreri And the point about mission running for pvp isk, doesn't apply to a lot of people who only do it for better setups. And what do they do with these setups? Almost every mission runner I know buys the uber stuff, as to secure his income/hour. Then once he has a mega money maker, he then spends all his isk stockpiling for pvp gear, as there is nothing else to spend his isk on to improve is isk/hour ratio. Once they burn up their stokpile, they save up again. I dont know any mission runner that just mission runs for the sake of missions --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Trask Kilraen The Older Gamers	Posted - 2007.01.11 14:06:00 - [88] Why do some pirates want to be able to easily probe missions? Because it's an almost no-risk kill. If the mission runner knows his business, he's running missions as close to the limit of his abilities as possible. Therefore, you warp in, his tank is already stressed, he's already engaged, ya pop him easy, take the phat loot, and move on. Gimme a break. Now you can argue that a mission runner has almost no risk... and if the runner does his homework, I wouldn't disagree. Even so, the runner will probably lose a ship every now and then to bad intel, the lagmonster, whatever. But if you want missions to be riskier, then the rewards have to be better. The OP, IMO is the one whining for an "easy button"
ArtemisEntreri Turbulent Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.11 15:05:00 - [89] Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: ArtemisEntreri And the point about mission running for pvp isk, doesn't apply to a lot of people who only do it for better setups. And what do they do with these setups? Almost every mission runner I know buys the uber stuff, as to secure his income/hour. Then once he has a mega money maker, he then spends all his isk stockpiling for pvp gear, as there is nothing else to spend his isk on to improve is isk/hour ratio. Once they burn up their stokpile, they save up again. I dont know any mission runner that just mission runs for the sake of missions These sound like decent people.
ArtemisEntreri Turbulent Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.11 15:05:00 - [90] Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: ArtemisEntreri And the point about mission running for pvp isk, doesn't apply to a lot of people who only do it for better setups. And what do they do with these setups? Almost every mission runner I know buys the uber stuff, as to secure his income/hour. Then once he has a mega money maker, he then spends all his isk stockpiling for pvp gear, as there is nothing else to spend his isk on to improve is isk/hour ratio. Once they burn up their stokpile, they save up again. I dont know any mission runner that just mission runs for the sake of missions These sound like decent people.

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